Clone Wars: Season 3

Bryancd · January 23, 2011, 11:55:15 AM

Quote from: X on January 23, 2011, 11:36:14 AM
King, there was a toy at comicon that will show you what's going on.

Maybe, that's certainly a possibility. As I recall that figure form the STAR WARS Infinities comic was pretty popular. Although I think King makes some good point above in his comments, we really don't know how this will manifest itself yet. Clearly the Nightsisters have introduced magic into the SW universe, so anything is possible.

X · January 23, 2011, 01:39:42 PM

Quote from: Bryancd on January 23, 2011, 11:55:15 AM
Quote from: X on January 23, 2011, 11:36:14 AM
King, there was a toy at comicon that will show you what's going on.

Maybe, that's certainly a possibility. As I recall that figure form the STAR WARS Infinities comic was pretty popular. Although I think King makes some good point above in his comments, we really don't know how this will manifest itself yet. Clearly the Nightsisters have introduced magic into the SW universe, so anything is possible.

Magic has always been in the EU, but I get what you're saying. What I don't get is how someone who has had zero force training in their life and no signs of the force suddenly being able to do what they did with only a little training. Did the magic give him the force? If so, why not make more people with that spell? I mean if you can turn joe nobody into a force wielding super-soldier that can take out a Jedi master with zero force skills or force training and who couldn't take out the apprentice of an apprentice, why stop at one?

Why not make everyone a super-sith and take over for yourselves.

Like I said, the story makes sense only if you don't think about it.

Bryancd · January 23, 2011, 01:59:05 PM

I asked that question over on the ForceCast forums and was told it was EU canon that Zabraks are born Force sensitive.

X · January 23, 2011, 02:10:32 PM

Quote from: Bryancd on January 23, 2011, 01:59:05 PM
I asked that question over on the ForceCast forums and was told it was EU canon that Zabraks are born Force sensitive.

I'd disagree with that answer, because there have already been some on Clone wars and in novels without the force. There isn't anything that says that they are all born with the force. We also don't see them using the force at all when they were getting killed in the testing process. I know they have the potential for the force but I don't see them all having the force. Human are also born force sensitive, but not everyone of the is. I'm talking about the training itself. The Jedi didn't want to train Anakin because he was too old. When Luke got his training and he's supposed to be really strong in the force. It took him years to master the abilities.

Bryancd · January 23, 2011, 03:14:43 PM

Well, with advent of the Midichlorines creating Force sensitivity and acumen seems to vary between individuals. Not that I love that construct, but it is what we have. The decision to bring this dude back comes from GL, we need to ride with it at this point.

X · January 23, 2011, 03:41:41 PM

Quote from: Bryancd on January 23, 2011, 03:14:43 PM
Well, with advent of the Midichlorines creating Force sensitivity and acumen seems to vary between individuals. Not that I love that construct, but it is what we have. The decision to bring this dude back comes from GL, we need to ride with it at this point.

You are 100% correct. I guess I hit the point where I think Star Wars is better when Lucas isn't taking a direct hand in it. I also don't see the reason of destroying the EU book by book when they could take it as a opportunity to highlight the EU. I think that the Clone Wars could be a fantastic platform for getting kids to read all of the old novels. Instead of building on that rich history, they are taking the concepts from in in ways that invalidate the books. This is a huge missed opportunity.

Bryancd · January 23, 2011, 03:55:24 PM

I hear what you are saying and in the abstract agree. However, the EU has never been GL's vision for the franchise and I appreciate the opportunity to see his vision. I love the EU, but it needs to stay on the sidelines a bit. The reason this reveal at the end of the episode doesn't bother me is that I don't cling to specific constructs, I just go with the flow. :)

X · January 23, 2011, 04:16:49 PM

Quote from: Bryancd on January 23, 2011, 03:55:24 PM
I hear what you are saying and in the abstract agree. However, the EU has never been GL's vision for the franchise and I appreciate the opportunity to see his vision. I love the EU, but it needs to stay on the sidelines a bit. The reason this reveal at the end of the episode doesn't bother me is that I don't cling to specific constructs, I just go with the flow. :)

I see what you're saying, but if they aren't going to respect the EU, why steal the concepts and ideas from it and then bastardize them? I think my biggest problem with this is that we just got to see Dathomir in one of the Fate of the Jedi books. We were on the world a whole book and it was made last year. Now that info doesn't work because they are just stealing EU ideas out of context. How hard would it have been to just make a tribe of female Zabrek that lived on another world and did the whole thing? Instead, they use human night sisters so that they can connect Ventress to them and they come out of left field to create the Nightbrothers so that they could put Maul on the board.

I think anyone here on the board could have come out with a better plot to bring Maul into the CW and create Savage. It just strikes me of really lazy and insulting to the people that are writing the books. And it's not like GL isn't poking his head into the books. He gave the mandate to have Anakin Solo killed off halfway into the Vong War books when they started them knowing that Anakin and not Jacen would be the big bad of the next series. So they had to shift the bad to Jacen because of the vision of GL. Which was more character assassination than anything else. Nothing happens in the EU with the permission of Lucas. You would think that having that go ahead would keep things from getting screwed up, but ....

"When I met your father, he was a great pilot in the Clone Wars"

KingIsaacLinksr · January 23, 2011, 04:58:37 PM

Quote from: X on January 23, 2011, 04:16:49 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on January 23, 2011, 03:55:24 PM
I hear what you are saying and in the abstract agree. However, the EU has never been GL's vision for the franchise and I appreciate the opportunity to see his vision. I love the EU, but it needs to stay on the sidelines a bit. The reason this reveal at the end of the episode doesn't bother me is that I don't cling to specific constructs, I just go with the flow. :)
I see what you're saying, but if they aren't going to respect the EU, why steal the concepts and ideas from it and then bastardize them? I think my biggest problem with this is that we just got to see Dathomir in one of the Fate of the Jedi books. We were on the world a whole book and it was made last year. Now that info doesn't work because they are just stealing EU ideas out of context. How hard would it have been to just make a tribe of female Zabrek that lived on another world and did the whole thing? Instead, they use human night sisters so that they can connect Ventress to them and they come out of left field to create the Nightbrothers so that they could put Maul on the board.

I think anyone here on the board could have come out with a better plot to bring Maul into the CW and create Savage. It just strikes me of really lazy and insulting to the people that are writing the books. And it's not like GL isn't poking his head into the books. He gave the mandate to have Anakin Solo killed off halfway into the Vong War books when they started them knowing that Anakin and not Jacen would be the big bad of the next series. So they had to shift the bad to Jacen because of the vision of GL. Which was more character assassination than anything else. Nothing happens in the EU with the permission of Lucas. You would think that having that go ahead would keep things from getting screwed up, but ....

"When I met your father, he was a great pilot in the Clone Wars"

This is such a touchy subject really. I don't view the EU as important from my side because I'm not invested in it at all. Ultimately, these writers are writing in GL's universe and he has final say on what is canon and what isn't. (That's just how it is) To say that the EU is more important than GL is ridiculous at best. What I have seen from the EU are a lot of....well, meh novels.......................

*Edit* Nvm, really this discussion has probably been beaten to death on the Force Cast forums and its not one I want to get into due to not being invested in the EU. Suffice to say that I view the EU as a source of Star Wars material that isn't important to the Star Wars universe as a whole. There are some good books there, but there is quite a few bad books there as well. Thus this argument could go ugly fast.

And I had no idea about the Anakin thing.

King

Bryancd · January 23, 2011, 05:10:04 PM

Well, the EU, as a licensed LF property, is subject to the intellectual property rights of LF. As such, it is subject to whatever the creative whims of LF, regardless of how one may feel about it. Some have issue, but as of now, a lot of fans do not. Do the kids within CW get upset about this stuff? Likely not. We need to share SW with multiple generations.

Rico · January 24, 2011, 05:46:58 AM

Bryan - there are always going to be things in any project that some people like and some don't like. Even if it's all "approved" by the head guy, be it Lucas, Roddenberry, Whedon, etc. There are certainly things in Trek that I didn't like. The same is true for "Star Wars." Also, even if 99% of the fans/public like it and I don't that is still fine. Everyone is entitled to their informed opinion. So, on the surface I don't care for this idea. But who knows, maybe it will be done in an interesting and valid way. Everyone just needs to keep in mind there is no right or wrong here. It's all just our own opinions and views.

billybob476 · January 24, 2011, 06:01:44 AM

I'm a big fan of the EU, I collect EU novels, sourcebooks etc. I agree Lucas can do what he wants, I agree that a lot of Star Wars EU isn't even very good. However I also agree with X, Using the nightsisters and Dathomir was just lazy. The planet holds no importance whatsoever outside of the EU, most Star Wars fans have never even heard of it. Why not just come up with a different planet? It's not as though it HAD to be Dathmoir and it HAD to be the Nightsisters (who in Courship of Princess Leia were NOT and ancient order of anything, they were witches that had been exiled for touching the dark side).

It's a little bit frustrating.

Bryancd · January 24, 2011, 06:11:16 AM

Quote from: Rico on January 24, 2011, 05:46:58 AM
Bryan - there are always going to be things in any project that some people like and some don't like. Even if it's all "approved" by the head guy, be it Lucas, Roddenberry, Whedon, etc. There are certainly things in Trek that I didn't like. The same is true for "Star Wars." Also, even if 99% of the fans/public like it and I don't that is still fine. Everyone is entitled to their informed opinion. So, on the surface I don't care for this idea. But who knows, maybe it will be done in an interesting and valid way. Everyone just needs to keep in mind there is no right or wrong here. It's all just our own opinions and views.

I'm not clear why this is addrssed to me, I don't recall juding any of this right or wrong. ???

RickPeete · January 24, 2011, 06:15:59 AM

I killed many a Nightsister on Dath playing Star Wars Galaxies. The images of the planet looked like they came right from the game actually. That game was a LucasArts property so I guess it is blessed canon (maybe not G canon).

I have to agree that I am not pleased with Maul returning. Not only was he cut in half, he went down the reactor shaft. So the only way he could return would be as a glowie, and it has never been shown that Sith know how to do that. Heck, even Yoda did not know how to do that until Qui Gon showed him in Episode III, right?

X · January 24, 2011, 06:22:15 AM

Quote from: billybob476 on January 24, 2011, 06:01:44 AM
I'm a big fan of the EU, I collect EU novels, sourcebooks etc. I agree Lucas can do what he wants, I agree that a lot of Star Wars EU isn't even very good. However I also agree with X, Using the nightsisters and Dathomir was just lazy. The planet holds no importance whatsoever outside of the EU, most Star Wars fans have never even heard of it. Why not just come up with a different planet? It's not as though it HAD to be Dathmoir and it HAD to be the Nightsisters (who in Courship of Princess Leia were NOT and ancient order of anything, they were witches that had been exiled for touching the dark side).

It's a little bit frustrating.

That's exactly my problem! I don't care if they make new stories. What I don't like is how they destroy the stuff in the novels because they are lazy. It's like they take a look at the encyclopedia and pick a planet to screw over each season. There are thousands of worlds out there, but instead of being creative and using that, they are lazy. They don't think about the entire situation and it is pretty clear that they are butchering the EU for no reason.

Again anyone could have come up with a bunch of ways to pull Maul into the Ventress story. Something as simple as Sidious' new #1 man hearing rumor that Maul survived and then trying to put him down because of the Rule of Two.

Instead we get Opress, who is kinda cool if not bordering on Mary Sue. Dooku has to kill Ventress because his master feels that she is getting too powerful. The solution? Get someone new that already rivals her power without any training.

That's just sloppy, but it's also par for the course. Star Wars works better when you don't think of it. A small group of rebels manage to kill the emperor and create galaxy wide celebrations like the military is going to just stand down and in a place where the senate no longer exists to put them into power.

I am enjoying this season, but I think ignorance is bliss with this series. You probably get better mileage out of it if you haven't seen anything else.