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Author Topic: Historic Day in California  (Read 12844 times)

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Offline Meds

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2008, 12:43:47 PM »
OOOO poking and prodding now thats a total different topic ha ha.

Offline X

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2008, 12:53:05 PM »
Based on peoples arguments, Polgmy should be also allowed. It's is the same reasoning.

I also think people need to be very carefull on this topic. Just because someone does not believe in gay marriage does not mean they hate gay people. That is a giant leap to me that is dangerous.....

Just my opinion all and please note that I never once said which side of the fence I am on this. I like to listen to peoples thoughts and poke and prode :)

I don't see anything wrong with polygamy as long as it's consenting adults involved. If a woman wants to marry six guys and another woman, so be it. My issues would only be with people that had several wives or husbands and several households, but those people that they were married to wasn't aware of the other spouses.

If all parties involved are aware, I don't see a problem. I don't care was other consenting adults do in their bedrooms. I don't care how they setup their families and hope that they find something that works for them.

Offline Geekyfanboy

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2008, 01:22:33 PM »
'We are going to get our marriage license today'

Same-sex couples hit county offices and start tying the knot

By Tony Castro, Staff Writer

Article Last Updated: 06/17/2008 12:49:36 PM PDT

WEST HOLLYWOOD - As Mr. Sulu on "Star Trek," George Takei's fantasy mission on the "Starship Enterprise" was "to boldly go where no man has gone before."

This morning, the 71-year-old actor literally went where no man had legally been, at least in California. He and his partner of 21 years, Brad Altman, applied for a marriage license.

Takei was the highest profile person among the thousands of gay and lesbian couples who applied for marriage licenses on the first day allowed under last month's California Supreme Court decision knocking down the state's ban on same-sex marriages.

"Isn't this a glorious California morning to make history?" Takei told reporters in West Hollywood this morning. "Last month, the California Supreme Court made history by ruling for equality in marriage, and this morning, we're all here to give flesh and blood reality to that ruling. We're going to make history.

"And I think of the words of a great man who made history himself. Mahatma Ghandi said, `Be the change you want.' And what I see before me are people who are the change for equality. Equality in marriage and equality in everything.

"I see before me people who personify love and commitment. I see people who are the personifications, the joy and celebration, and Brad Altman and I are going to join you, and we are going to get our marriage license today. Isn't that extraordinary and it's that wonderful?"

Both Takei and Altman then raised their arms, their fingers spread in the "Vulcan peace sign" popularized by Leonard Nimoy's Spock character on "Star Trek."

Their appearance was cheered on by well-wishers, onlookers and a throng of news media fitting of a Hollywood red carpet. Nearby, several hundred couples stood in line, some camping out since shortly after midnight to be among the first-day marriage license recipients.

Takei and Altman were the first to receive a marriage license at the West Hollywood satellite office set up by the county. They set Sept. 14 as their wedding date.

Offline Blackride

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2008, 01:34:55 PM »
OOOO poking and prodding now thats a total different topic ha ha.

Ha Ha.....I was waiting for that :)
Ripley: Ash. Any suggestions from you or Mother?
Ash: No, we're still collating.
Ripley: [Laughing in disbelief] You're what? You're still collating? I find that hard to believe.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2008, 02:40:54 PM »
Congrats Kenny. It's about time gay marriage was allowed. Yay for you and Harry getting married. I've never understood why people get all het up over stuff like this. At the end of the day surely the meaning of life is to be happy. And if you are in love with someone, same sex or opposite then that's got to be the most important thing in the world. Will raise a glass of champers to you on your big day mate.

While I fully support gay marriage, I can see why people would be against it. In my opinion it comes down to this: People have deep-seated beliefs, it's much easier to blindly support those beliefs then to question them. From a fundamentally Catholic point of view the old testament (I think) says marriage is between a man and a woman and that being gay is wrong. If that is what a person was brought up believing, it's very easy for that person to blindly support that point of view. Logically, it makes no sense but that's what has been drilled into him/her so they believe it.

Again, that is not what I believe, just a possible counterpoint.

Now, I'm against this whole deal.  I'm not against Kenny specifically, but my beliefs contradict what California is doing.  It is not blind belief that I believe Gay marriage is wrong.  I have questioned many things that I believe.  (Lord knows these past few months have seen to that).  I've kept from replying until now. 

Do I curse Kenny and all others for doing this? 
The answer is: No. 
1.  If I curse ppl that do this, then I should curse myself because I know I deserve it.  "Doing one sin convicts you of ALL sins".  I sin, I know it and ask God for forgiveness.  Cursing would be a sin so...yea, I hope you get what I mean. :)
2.  Even if I criticized ppl and wouldn't talk to ppl because they do this, would it stop them?  No.  It is America after all.  Land of Freedom and such.  If you choose this, then it is entirely up to you.  I can be just as much against it, as Kenny has as much right doing it. 

I'm against it, but I'm not.....whats the word......a zealous righteous dirtbag about it. 

I hope the best for you Kenny.  And hope that you see what I'm saying.  :)  And that we can still be friends. 

King

P.S. Be happy I'm not my youngest brother.  He has a much...different attitude about it.  and my grandmother.  I guess I am liberal in a way.....*shudder* ;)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 02:48:31 PM by Kinglinksr »
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Offline Yeoman Mara

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2008, 02:45:28 PM »
Warm wishes to you Kenny and your partner.  Go for it!  :)
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Offline X

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2008, 02:52:17 PM »

I'm against, but I'm not.....whats the word......a zealous righteous dirtbag about it. 

Tim, I get what you're saying, but if you don't mind me asking, why are you against it?

I know the 'Company Line' when it comes to the vocal protesters of same-sex marriage, but as a whole, these views fail to hold water when placed under a magnifying glass.

What I mean to ask, is:

Do you have specific reason why same-sex marriage should not be allowed?

As Kenny has heard me rant in private on this subject on several occasions, it is one that I also happily enjoy engaging others in a health debate.

There is a slim chance that views would be changed in such debates, but I think it helps me as a person to understand how and why people choose a view and what they use to support it.

Offline Bryancd

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2008, 03:25:11 PM »
X I appreciate your argument as to why a case can be made that a "marriage" is not a religious ceremony, but really that's sort of equivocating. The common perception, regardless of historical precedents that may seem to the contrary, is that it is a ceremony presided over by a member of the clergy in a house of worship. Certainly there are other popular ways to "get married" that include neither of these but that would be the most common definition of a "wedding".

Kenny, I know we have discussed this before but I don't recall your view on this aspect of the debate. Are you and Harry interested in having a ceremony where you profess your love and commitment to each other before those you care for and who love you as well as the rights and privileges afforded by the state and federal government, or are do you want to be joined "in the eye's of God" in a religious ceremony? I suppose that's where the difference may lie. I have two gay clients who had a beautiful "Union of Souls" ceremony in Philadelphia a few years ago where they read prepared vows of commitment and exchanged rings before all their friends and family. It was one o the best "wedding" I have been to but had non of the religious trappings. This was by design as Jim was raised Catholic and didn't think it was appropriate.

Offline Geekyfanboy

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2008, 03:41:10 PM »
Kenny, I know we have discussed this before but I don't recall your view on this aspect of the debate. Are you and Harry interested in having a ceremony where you profess your love and commitment to each other before those you care for and who love you as well as the rights and privileges afforded by the state and federal government, or are do you want to be joined "in the eye's of God" in a religious ceremony? I suppose that's where the difference may lie. I have two gay clients who had a beautiful "Union of Souls" ceremony in Philadelphia a few years ago where they read prepared vows of commitment and exchanged rings before all their friends and family. It was one o the best "wedding" I have been to but had non of the religious trappings. This was by design as Jim was raised Catholic and didn't think it was appropriate.

Neither Harry nor I are religious, Harry is a non practicing Catholic. We are doing the ceremony to profess our love and commitment to each other before those we care for and who love us. We planned the ceremony way before the ban on gay marriages was lifted. 

Offline Bryancd

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2008, 03:46:08 PM »
Kenny, I know we have discussed this before but I don't recall your view on this aspect of the debate. Are you and Harry interested in having a ceremony where you profess your love and commitment to each other before those you care for and who love you as well as the rights and privileges afforded by the state and federal government, or are do you want to be joined "in the eye's of God" in a religious ceremony? I suppose that's where the difference may lie. I have two gay clients who had a beautiful "Union of Souls" ceremony in Philadelphia a few years ago where they read prepared vows of commitment and exchanged rings before all their friends and family. It was one o the best "wedding" I have been to but had non of the religious trappings. This was by design as Jim was raised Catholic and didn't think it was appropriate.

Neither Harry nor I are religious, Harry is a non practicing Catholic. We are doing the ceremony to profess our love and commitment to each other before those we care for and who love us. We planned the ceremony way before the ban on gay marriages was lifted. 

Exactly, so if the State of California said that same sex couples could have a civil union and recognize them with the same "rights" as married couples, you guys would be perfectly content, yes? This would mollify a lot of the opposition.

Offline Omra

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2008, 03:48:19 PM »
My stance when it comes to 'Gay Rights' of any kind, is much the same as my stance when it comes to any Minority Group.  Equal rights, and the ability to have a safe and constructive life free of persecution.

It is when a group seeks 'Protective Status' that I object, I do not believe that any race, religion or 'Lifestyle' deserves special treatment.  Only Equal treatment.

Offline X

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2008, 03:54:39 PM »
Exactly, so if the State of California said that same sex couples could have a civil union and recognize them with the same "rights" as married couples, you guys would be perfectly content, yes? This would mollify a lot of the opposition.

I've heard this before and while it's good in a separate but equal aspect. Would a gay couple get fined or go to jail of they call their union a marriage? How do you enforce the use of the word?

I'm a logical person and if you give a civil union the exact weight and benefits marriage, why not call it a marriage? If it looks like a duck...


Offline Geekyfanboy

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2008, 03:56:50 PM »
Kenny, I know we have discussed this before but I don't recall your view on this aspect of the debate. Are you and Harry interested in having a ceremony where you profess your love and commitment to each other before those you care for and who love you as well as the rights and privileges afforded by the state and federal government, or are do you want to be joined "in the eye's of God" in a religious ceremony? I suppose that's where the difference may lie. I have two gay clients who had a beautiful "Union of Souls" ceremony in Philadelphia a few years ago where they read prepared vows of commitment and exchanged rings before all their friends and family. It was one o the best "wedding" I have been to but had non of the religious trappings. This was by design as Jim was raised Catholic and didn't think it was appropriate.

Neither Harry nor I are religious, Harry is a non practicing Catholic. We are doing the ceremony to profess our love and commitment to each other before those we care for and who love us. We planned the ceremony way before the ban on gay marriages was lifted. 

Exactly, so if the State of California said that same sex couples could have a civil union and recognize them with the same "rights" as married couples, you guys would be perfectly content, yes? This would mollify a lot of the opposition.

No we wouldn't be content, why do "straight" couples get to use the tern wedding and marriage but "gay" couple have to use ceremony and civil unions.  Why should there be any difference in the terminology.

Offline Darkmolerman

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2008, 04:04:40 PM »
Wow congrats Kenny and lucky Harry I hope you have a wonderful life together
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Offline Bryancd

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Re: Historic Day in California
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2008, 04:08:15 PM »

Because the terminology IS the issue for both sides. If you accept the premise that a "wedding" or "marriage" is a religious ceremony, you will now need to have the Bible changed in the eyes of the Catholic Church potentially. I think a little compromise can go a long way here.

 




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