Star Wars Revenge of the Sith

[brazilianjiujitsu1979]

There is a big debate about this at my gym.  I want to know what YOU think.

Thanks

Andy

[Blackride]

Hands down he was playing Possum unless his begging was just horrible acting.......

[Geekyfanboy]

Mace had him pinned to the floor.. he would have died if Anikin didn't rescue him.

[Blackride]

I think he put himself in that postion to see where Anakin stood on loyalty. If he would have taken Mace's side he would have killed them both. If we are supposed to believe that he is so powerful to full even Yoda then how could Mace beat him who is not as strong with the force as Yoda. Just my opinion of course....

[Bryancd]

Palpatine was playing the situation for Anakin's benefit. He KNEW Anakin would come, he's a Sith Lord! Go watch the scene again, see his little sidelong glances at Anakin when Anakin is talking to Mace. His little cries for pity? Bogus! I'm with Blackride 100%, this was all part of the 'plan".

[Rico]

I think if Anakin hadn't shown up Mace would of won.  It was a calculated risk on Palpatine's part but it paid off.  Keep in mind this scene was originally written differently.  Anakin was suppose to arrive sooner.  But the way it plays out in the final cut, Mace has Palpatine down and has his lightsaber to protect him.  Without Anakin's intervention it would of been over for Papa Palpatine.

[Blackride]

I just think him being able to be killed by Mace downplays the Emperors abilities. If he can fool Yoda and see the future then why would he be in that postion with Mace?

Honestly the best way to figure this out would be to look at the offical novel and or the offical script to see if there are any hints.

[Rico]

I think Palpatine's real power was in his ability to manipulate and control weaker people like Anakin.  His abilities to fight may not be quite as great as Mace or even Yoda.  Keep this in mind.  Even a beaten down Vader/Anakin was able to kill Palpatine in "Return of the Jedi" when Anakin was turned back to the good side by his son Luke.  I'm certain if Palpatine hadn't controlled and manipulated Anakin he would of been killed.  If not by Mace then by Anakin (if he hadn't turned) or even Yoda eventually.  At least that's my take on things.

[X]

I believe that Mace had Palpatine beat. I think the early interviews with Sam Jackson pretty much summed it up. He was the BEST Jedi to wield a lightsaber. Sure Palpy was playing on the surrender, but only to cement Anakin's fall. Even if he had died at that point, Palpatine had already doomed the Jedi to extinction and achieved a victory that was beyond all Sith before him, but Mace could have killed him if not for Anakin.

[Bryancd]

That's not Lucas style, however. Lucas wanted palpatine to be the ultimate power of evil, it makes Palpatine that much more believable as the pentultimate dark power by hiaving him in complete conrol of the situations in Ep's 1-3. You guys are looking at it too literally on the film as opposed to what the creator intends.

[Jen]

I read the book...I don't think it really said whether Palpatine was working Anakin..but I knew he was. I think Rico is right. Mace would have won, had Anakin not entered the room. Palpatine WAS manipulating the situation, but I think he may have grossely underestimated Mace....OK, I'm going to bring some EU to the table, so don't freak out on me. This stuff was written about before ROTS (Revenge of the Sith), in comic books (which we know George reads) and video games so it's a plausable explaination of how/why Mace would have beat Palpatine.

Mace's lightsaber form is called Vaapad, it's unique to all the Jedi save two (his former apprentice, Depa Billaba and Sora Bulq, Quinlan Vos's instructor). So not many Jedi (dark or otherwise) know how to defend themselves against it. Mace had to draw on the darkside to use it...and he was feeding on Palpatine's energy to do so.

"Vaapad is a channel for one's inner darkness; and it is a reflecting device. With strict control, a person's own emotions and inner darkness can be changed into a weapon of the light. Vaapad is able to take the hatred, anger and rage of the opponent and reflect it back at him. In his fight with Palpatine, Mace Windu used Palpatine's own speed and hatred against him, reflecting it back against the Sith Lord and using it as his own power." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat

[brazilianjiujitsu1979]

Wow Jen,

That is really cool.  I did not know that.

Very Intersting.

Andy

[Blackride]

That's not Lucas style, however. Lucas wanted palpatine to be the ultimate power of evil, it makes Palpatine that much more believable as the pentultimate dark power by hiaving him in complete conrol of the situations in Ep's 1-3. You guys are looking at it too literally on the film as opposed to what the creator intends.

That pretty much sums up how I feel too. The ultimate source of power and manipulation.

[Rico]

But again, I think it's now even more clear (especially after Jen's info) that Mace had Palpy beat.  Only due to Anakin's intervention was he able to beat Mace.  I think this also is the big reason Mace didn't want Anakin to go with them to arrest Palpy.  He knew Anakin was conflicted and not strong enough to resist Palpy's manipulations.

[billybob476]

Also, according to more EU (Dark Empire), even if mace had killed the emperor, he would have just transferred his essence to a new body (if he was capable of that at this time). So maybe it was a risk, but the stakes might not have been as high as we think.