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Poll

Was Palpatine playing "possum" or did Mace Windu have him beat?

Playing Possum
4 (33.3%)
Mace Had him Beat DOWN
8 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Author Topic: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith  (Read 7443 times)

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Offline Blackride

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2007, 03:22:41 PM »
Check this out.....It seems that even the book did not determine which way this was happening..


The novelization stated that Darth Sidious could indeed sense the approach of the four Jedi Masters, as well as the emotional turmoil of Anakin Skywalker, who was still waiting in the Council Chamber. The novel also described Palpatine's preparations for the upcoming duel in detail, including how he recovered his Sith lightsaber and prepared an audio recording.

During the duel, Saesee Tiin was beheaded when Sidious tricked him and caught him off guard. Agen Kolar was then impaled through the head by Palpatine's lightsaber.

Anakin Skywalker, recognizing the consequences of what he did by revealing Palpatine, rushed to the Chancellor's office. Shaak Ti stood in his way and tried to convince Anakin not to go, but Anakin rudely refused to obey the Jedi Master.

As he arrived, he witnessed the battle between Kit Fisto, Mace Windu, and Palpatine by hovering his speeder outside Palpatine's office window. He could not yet determine who the combatants were, seeing only their lightsabers. When the green blade flicked out, he smashed the window to Palpatine's private office and leapt through. There, he found the dead body of Kolar and the heads of Saesee Tiin and Kit Fisto. Anakin was able to watch the epic lightsaber duel between Windu and Palpatine for some time, instead of arriving just in time when the Jedi knocked down Sidious in the movie.

 
Duel with the Chancellor.Mace Windu could sense the approach of Anakin through the Force before he broke the office window, so it was reasonable for Darth Sidious to have the same experience. When the fight moved to the ledge, Mace described sensing Palpatine's momentary hesitation as the Sith Lord decreased his speed.

Whether it was an intentional trick on the part of Palpatine or whether Windu truly out-sparred the Sith Lord is confirmed in neither the movie nor the novel. Mace confessed, however, that Vaapad could not overpower the Sith Lord, and it was his shatterpoint ability which allowed him to gain the upper hand. In the book, Mace Windu did not kick Palpatine's jaw, and he sliced the Chancellor's weapon in half rather than knocking it from his grasp.

When Mace held Palpatine at blade point, he explained to the Sith Lord why Darth Sidious and his shadowy order always lose: because they were always defeated by their own fear. Palpatine countered by screaming "Fool! Do you think the fear you feel is mine?" and blasted the Jedi Master with Force lightning.

In the fight, Mace Windu realized that Palpatine's shatterpoint was Anakin Skywalker himself. When Anakin approached Mace, who was struggling to deflect the lightning blasts, Mace sensed that Palpatine did not fear Anakin at all, and that the Sith Lord would make no move to defend himself. Mace concluded that this was the shatterpoint of the Sith, and the absolute shatterpoint of the dark side itself.

Ultimately when Mace was betrayed by Anakin and blasted by Darth Sidious, he came to the shocking realization that although Anakin Skywalker indeed was the shatterpoint of Darth Sidious, he forgot to look for the shatterpoint of Anakin himself: his desire to save his wife at any cost.
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Offline Bryancd

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2007, 03:29:41 PM »
Exactly. Sith lightning was his secret weapon. He could have zapped Mace, but he waited. He baited Mace into thinking  he was defeated in order to turn Anakin's sympathy towards him and his claim to be able to save Panda Bear. Just look at his face lying there under Mace's blade! He whimpers and cries and then gives a sly little glance over at Anakin to see how it's playing out. He hit's Mace with lightning and Mace blocks it. He plays weak. Then when Anakin makes his turn, he let's Mace have the full power and fired him. It makes the whole confrontation far less interesting if Anakin really effected the outcome as it was all contrived in the first place.

Offline Jen

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2007, 05:03:35 PM »
I read ROTS and I also read Shatterpoint, by Matthew Stover. They're very a good books, I highly recommend them....I recommend the ROTS novelization, especially if you were dissatisfied with the movie. 

In the novel "Shatterpoint" it talks a lot about Mace's ability to detect weaknesses which are referred to as "Shatterpoints"...Kreia, from Knights Of The Old Republic, referred to them fractures, which can be can be manipulated by finding the "critical point". Anikan was Palpatine's critical point...and Mace missed it...so Mace died. 

Palpatine is obviously very manipulative, maybe that's his real power...Remember Palpatine can see the future. He knew that Anakin would save him. That could also be the reason why he's smirking.

And now this topic is officially too geeky, so let's just agree to disagree before we start talking like the Comic Book guy on the Simpsons. "Worst episode EVER."
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Offline X

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2007, 05:18:11 PM »
One final point. I Think that giving him the advantage because he could see the future is flawed. Perhaps he could see a little of the future, but nowhere near all seeing. If he was, he would have known about Luke, protected the death star better, and knew his student would be the death of him.

Offline Jen

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2007, 05:21:27 PM »
Maybe he can only see the near future...Luke is still two decades away.
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Offline X

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2007, 05:34:26 PM »
I can agree with that, but it wouldn't explain how he missed them when he was in the timeframe. He looked surprised when he got tossed down the well. He also seemed to really be fighting a losing battle against mace. Unless he allowed the dark side to cook his face on purpose. I think he was smiling more because balance was brought to the force. At the end of the purge, there were only two of each sect really left. Two dark and two light. Perhaps the emperor wooed Anakin so that his place as one of the two could be secured.

Offline Jen

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2007, 03:47:07 AM »
I can agree with that, but it wouldn't explain how he missed them when he was in the timeframe. He looked surprised when he got tossed down the well.

I see your point. But in Return of the Jedi, maybe the old crusty coot was so confident in Vader's loyalty that the "future was clouded" to him, as it had been to the Jedi during the Clone Wars. Maybe Vader's confusion, or the good Luke felt in him, stirred up the sediment of arrogance, which comes from years of supreme power, within the Emperor...He couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Here again is proof that the Emperor wasn't all powerful. He got tossed like a sack of electric potatoes into a big hole. If he was all powerful he would
have flown out. Eh...now I'm just arguing for the sake of argument. I'm done. Over and out...  :D

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Offline Blackride

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2007, 03:59:24 AM »
And now this topic is officially too geeky

I think that happend days ago.... :)
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Offline billybob476

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2007, 04:48:12 AM »
I think this topic would get too geeky if we started talking about thrust/weight ratios of Incom 4J4 Fusial thrust engines.

Offline Darth Gaos

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2007, 09:16:42 AM »
I always saw it as a combination of both answers.  I think Mace MAY have had him beat but I think Palpatine felt Anakins presence getting closer and it was a necessary risk  in order to prove to Anakin that "the jedi are trying to take over".  Palps was planting the seed of doubt regarding the Jedi's intentions for half the movie.  Palps himself is confident in telling Genaeral Grievous "Soon I will have a new apprentice.  One far younger and more powerful".  I just believe that are too many clues to say that Mace had him beat straight up.  I think Mace may have the upperhand but I am pretty sure it is because Palpatine half let him.
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Offline Rico

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2007, 09:31:24 AM »
Good analysis Darth.  I pretty much think the same way.  His skills with a saber couldn't match Mace anyway so he had to use other means to win.  Honestly, I was never a big fan of this whole scene and part of the movie.  I always had felt Anakin turning to the darkside should of been more dramatic and tragic.  I had always thought that the death of Padme would of been the logical thing to drive him over the edge.

Here was my idea while I had three years between movies to think on it:

Padme begins to be fearful of Anakin and his growing need for power.  Just before she has the twins she runs off to Naboo to have them in secret.  She heads back and leaves the twins in the care of her parents on Naboo.  Then she is needed to mediate some type of dispute.  Anakin wants to go to her because he continues to have dreams of her death.  Obi-Wan tells him no.  Just as she gets back to Coruscant he heads to meet her ship and it explodes (kind of like the start of AOTC).  Anakin screams and goes basically berserk.  Embracing the darkside and blaming the Jedi (especially Obi-Wan) for her death. 

Anyway - a little bit of a tangent.  But I thought I'd share my ideas.    :luke
« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 09:34:27 AM by Rico »

Offline billybob476

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2007, 09:53:53 AM »
I have to agree about the scene and Anakin turning. It's kind of like this:

Anakin: "I have to stop you!"
Palp: "I can save your wife from dying, just be evil with me"
Anakin: "Oh. Really? Ok, I'll go kill kids now."

There needed to be a bit more of a fall from grace I think. Then again, if the emperor is capable of manipulating him like that, maybe he was just manipulating Windu as well and could have killed him whenever he wanted.

Offline Darth Gaos

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2007, 03:01:10 PM »
Rico and Billybob's analysis are good reasons to agree with Jen and suggest the RotS novelization.  Stover does an excellent job of chronicaling the fall of Anakin.  There is so much more to it than what is in the movie.
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Offline jedijeff

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Re: Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2007, 05:31:18 PM »
This is a real good thread, and everyone has such good points for each side of this debate. I wish I had more of side on this, but I am more down the middle. I think Darth Gaos summed up my thoughts pretty well on the scene. I do agree as well, that I felt that Anakin got turned pretty easily, and not overly convincing to me. I think the Death of Padme should have been more of a catalyst then some bad dreams and lopping of Maces arm.

 




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