HBO's Game of Thrones

[billybob476]

No, as of this week's episode the crap should begin to hit the fan. Fear not!

[QuadShot]

:) Lovin' the poop in the rotary ocilator!

[Jobydrone]

Joby, at the risk of starting a flame war, why do you enjoy the sex scenes? Honestly, other than the over hormone driven male labido, what purpose could they possibly serve to the plot?

Had to wonder at this question a little bit, for several reasons.  Mostly because I'd hope I don't have the reputation around here of not being able to answer a direct question without getting into a flame war.

But as for the answer, I just can't remember any sex/nude scenes in the show that didn't serve the plot in some way.  The scenes early where Daenerys is forced to show her nude body, serve to show what a sick scumbag her brother is, and the rough sex she has with Conan later provides some important background to illustrate her character arc, as she grows from a subservient victim to a woman of power and gravitas.  The sex scene in the bath with the prostitute that was hired to train Daenerys was equally important for background and character development.  Honestly, I'm hard pressed to think of a sexualized scene that struck me as out of place or unneccessary.

Another reason I enjoy the sex in this show is that I believe the fantasy genre on television as well as in the movies is long overdue for a serious take that doesn't shy away from adult themes and human (and inhuman even) sexuality.  I can only think of a few movies that didn't treat the genre like nobody ever had sex or was naked under their armor.  Excalibur and Conan come to mind.  I can't think of ANYTHING on television that ever did this.  It brings a gritty realism that adds to the suspension of disbelief when we see magic, dragons, worgs, wraiths, or whatever else we're in store for here.

Finally, as I said before, I'm not ashamed to admit that I find the actors and actresses in this show very attractive and love seeing their nude bodies.  Sue me. ;)  There's alot of reasons why this show is not appropriate for the traditional audience of younger viewers that might be attracted to fantasy shows, the sex and nudity is just one of them.

[billybob476]

Joby, at the risk of starting a flame war, why do you enjoy the sex scenes? Honestly, other than the over hormone driven male labido, what purpose could they possibly serve to the plot?

Had to wonder at this question a little bit, for several reasons.  Mostly because I'd hope I don't have the reputation around here of not being able to answer a direct question without getting into a flame war.

But as for the answer, I just can't remember any sex/nude scenes in the show that didn't serve the plot in some way.  The scenes early where Daenerys is forced to show her nude body, serve to show what a sick scumbag her brother is, and the rough sex she has with Conan later provides some important background to illustrate her character arc, as she grows from a subservient victim to a woman of power and gravitas.  The sex scene in the bath with the prostitute that was hired to train Daenerys was equally important for background and character development.  Honestly, I'm hard pressed to think of a sexualized scene that struck me as out of place or unneccessary.

Another reason I enjoy the sex in this show is that I believe the fantasy genre on television as well as in the movies is long overdue for a serious take that doesn't shy away from adult themes and human (and inhuman even) sexuality.  I can only think of a few movies that didn't treat the genre like nobody ever had sex or was naked under their armor.  Excalibur and Conan come to mind.  I can't think of ANYTHING on television that ever did this.  It brings a gritty realism that adds to the suspension of disbelief when we see magic, dragons, worgs, wraiths, or whatever else we're in store for here.

Finally, as I said before, I'm not ashamed to admit that I find the actors and actresses in this show very attractive and love seeing their nude bodies.  Sue me. ;)  There's alot of reasons why this show is not appropriate for the traditional audience of younger viewers that might be attracted to fantasy shows, the sex and nudity is just one of them.

Well put and I have to agree.

[Jobydrone]

Thanks Joe.

I have to say though, that the scene in the latest episode where Cate's sister was seen breast feeding her son that looked at least ten years old was extremely disturbing.  It took me out of the scene because I couldn't help but wonder how they accomplished filming that.  Fake boobies?

[QuadShot]

Thanks for your honesty Joby, and I appreciate your taste in story, but I just think that we can have great sci-fi and fantasy without that stuff being thrown in our face.

I honestly apologize if I may have insinuated that you have a rep for flame wars. If anything, you're one of the ones here that traditionally calm others down! :)

I'm not a prude by any means, but I just don't think all of that complete nudity and sex serve real purpose. I think it's possible to convey the same background and character development in other ways. To me (and this is only my opinion), resorting to this sort of device is an indication of lazy writing. "Hmm, how can I convey what a creep this guy is? Oh I know, let's have him sex it up with a whore". I really like this story so far, I think it's great, but take a look at LOTR. We quickly understand what a jerk Grima Wormtongue is without seeing him have sex with a prostitute. Or, in Harry Potter, what  a complete creep Malfoy is without seeing him have sex with his sister. I'm just saying.

I'm not saying that the total lack of nudity or (at least) sexual innuendo is called for, but not so much graphic stuff.  

This is what I LOVE about this forum. We can chat, disagree, even bicker a bit, but still LOVE each other! :) You guys rock.

[QuadShot]

Thanks Joe.

I have to say though, that the scene in the latest episode where Cate's sister was seen breast feeding her son that looked at least ten years old was extremely disturbing.  It took me out of the scene because I couldn't help but wonder how they accomplished filming that.  Fake boobies?

Oh my GOSH! I know!! EWWW! And yes, I PRAY those were fake...If not, that poor kid is in for YEARS of therapy! :)

[billybob476]

Yeah I was wondering if they were actually going to do that. Even in the book I found that pretty off putting :)

There must be some kind of child labour law that wouldn't allow it to be real.

[X]

Thanks for your honesty Joby, and I appreciate your taste in story, but I just think that we can have great sci-fi and fantasy without that stuff being thrown in our face.

I honestly apologize if I may have insinuated that you have a rep for flame wars. If anything, you're one of the ones here that traditionally calm others down! :)

I'm not a prude by any means, but I just don't think all of that complete nudity and sex serve real purpose. I think it's possible to convey the same background and character development in other ways. To me (and this is only my opinion), resorting to this sort of device is an indication of lazy writing. "Hmm, how can I convey what a creep this guy is? Oh I know, let's have him sex it up with a whore". I really like this story so far, I think it's great, but take a look at LOTR. We quickly understand what a jerk Grima Wormtongue is without seeing him have sex with a prostitute. Or, in Harry Potter, what  a complete creep Malfoy is without seeing him have sex with his sister. I'm just saying.

I'm not saying that the total lack of nudity or (at least) sexual innuendo is called for, but not so much graphic stuff.  

This is what I LOVE about this forum. We can chat, disagree, even bicker a bit, but still LOVE each other! :) You guys rock.

I get what you're saying about the sex, but if it wasn't there, it wouldn't be a game of thrones. Without spoiling anything, it's hard to talk about, but sex is very important to this world. If you are expecting to see magic, prepare for a very very long wait. There are hints of magic and magical things, but this isn't a story where spells are cast and magic is done.

It's about the politics of succession in a world where their dark times are right around the corner.

I too was taken by the breastfeeding, but that's the best part of it! Not only were we in shock, the people in the story were in shock. Even in a world where there are so many bastards being had to where they are given regional surnames, some things cross the line.

I think that this is a great adaptation of the book, but if you are looking for sword and sorcery, you've probably picked the wrong series. The Game of Thrones is a story of politics, betrayals, death, sex, blood, and war. Many of the things that you'd might want to see, you don't see.

One of the key magical things in the story hasn't even really been mentioned in the show. Some people in the story have magical swords similar to classic D&D or the Heron marked blades in Wheel of time. They are more plus to hit weapons as opposed to glowing or flaming weapons. People that use magic in a game of thrones are like people in our world that work with anti-matter. Sure they exist, but they are so rare that you could go your entire life without meeting one.

Also, to hit on one of your point. Having sex with a whore doesn't make you a creep in this world. It's your actions as a person that decides that. I think that the sex is there to take you out of your comfort zone and tell you this this is not the world that you know. The rules of society are not the same as the ones that we have.

When I see the Imp, I see a man that has taken his lot in life and chose to not let it define him. Sure he's sleeping with whores, but do you really think that the noble women are ready to jump into his bed?

I think that we also need to consider that in the first two episodes, we've learned that adultery, rape, and incest are three driving elements within the game of thrones. We've also seen the lengths that some people will go to protect their secrets. These windows are critical parts to telling the greater story.

I know that you might think it could be told without the sex, but when a major part of the story has to deal with the ramifications of sex, it would come off as prude to try to hide those key parts of the story under something less than what was written.

[QuadShot]

As odd as this will sound coming from me, X, you summed this up very well. Honestly, it makes more sense to me now. I can see where it's coming from and guess that by adding some things that make us shudder a bit, the writer is conveying his point: take them out of their world and drop them into mine.

[Jobydrone]

Great post Chris.  Having not read the books myself, it's hard for me to justify some of the more graphic scenes without knowing where it's all going and how it all ties together.  One thing for sure, I knew from the very first episode that even though some elements of this show might seem familiar, that I've never seen anything quite like this show before.  That's maybe what I like most about it.

Edit to add: I find it very amusing that even after all our disagreements over the years the one subject we both see eye to eye on is "boning on television" ;)

[Bromptonboy]

I for one - am not above enjoying a cheap thrill while enjoying the excellent storytelling.  ;)  Although I can see that this wouldn't be to everyones tastes and sensibilities.  That being said, my children will not be watching this one with me! 
For the most part the HBO version is staying very true to the earthy nature of the story and of the period (War of the Roses) that it is paralleling (read Stark as York - and Lanister as Lancaster).
The nursing scene was disturbing - but it illustrates how the character has gone off the deep-end in protecting and over-mothering her son.
The wedding night scene was actual portrayed more tenderly in the actual book (although I read this book some time ago - correct me if I am wrong).

[billybob476]

The wedding night scene was actual portrayed more tenderly in the actual book (although I read this book some time ago - correct me if I am wrong).

No you're exactly right, I had told Fran about that scene in the book and after we saw it in the show she looked at me a bit funny. It was definitely extended in the book and made you realize Drogo is a bit more complex then he had been portrayed up to that point.

[Duffster]

Is was really worried about how they were going to do this series when I first heard about it. I was worried they would rush through all the back stories and try and make it all action etc. They fact they have spent time developing these characters has made me very happy. There is so much depth to these books I thought they would have a hard time conveying the story. In fact when I read the books I thought there was absolutely no way they would ever make it a series. I am very happily wrong.

I completely agree with X and his assessment. This is not a very nice world, it's harsh and tough and everyone is plotting. I think they have done a good job setting up how fragile the peace really is, and I really hasn't struck me that they have shown anything I would consider fluff or not important. I loved the dialogue between the King and Queen, and also between Littlefinger and Varys. All these little things I believe they are doing right. This is certainly some of the best television I have ever seen.

[Rico]

Just finished watching the most recent episode.  While there are things I like about this series, I'm still a bit on the fence.  I'm fine with the sex and violence because I think it's showing how brutal this world is.  But for me at least, I'm not quite sure that makes it the most entertaining type of thing to watch.  I'm a bit more old school and prefer a few more people who actually seem to have some morality.  So far the vast majority of these people I find myself not only not caring for, but actively wanting to pick up one of my swords and chop them down.  Besides Ned Stark and maybe the Imp, and of course some of the kids and Ned's bastard son, the rest seem to be very bad people.  And I mean very bad.  I plan on hanging in there for the season, but this ultimately might not really be my cup of tea - or maybe ale in this case.