World of Warcraft: Cataclysm

[X]

That's also called being lazy imo. 

King

How is that called being lazy?

[billybob476]

That's 12 million players across all the servers. 6k man guild is huge!

I don't know I was part of large guild in SWG,Warhammer, Planet Siege, EGII and I and DOAC. In all those instances the guilds really ran the population of the server. We used to camp stuff 24x7 literally so people could not get anything :)

Well granted it is a big guild. We definitely have impact on Earthen Ring (Rico could tell you what impact it has on the Ally side of the fence). Then again it's very much against the spirit of the guild to grief anyone. Frankly if word of that gets back to the officer corps anyone involved would likely be kicked.

[Rico]

That's 12 million players across all the servers. 6k man guild is huge!

I don't know I was part of large guild in SWG,Warhammer, Planet Siege, EGII and I and DOAC. In all those instances the guilds really ran the population of the server. We used to camp stuff 24x7 literally so people could not get anything :)

Well granted it is a big guild. We definitely have impact on Earthen Ring (Rico could tell you what impact it has on the Ally side of the fence). Then again it's very much against the spirit of the guild to grief anyone. Frankly if word of that gets back to the officer corps anyone involved would likely be kicked.

I saw you guys raiding Stormwind I think one day I was on not too long back.  Doesn't bother me at all.  But it does sound like Blizzard had some technical issues with very large guild sizes.  Truth be told, this size limit won't really impact many guilds at all.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

That's also called being lazy imo. 

King

How is that called being lazy?

Well, their problem is the interface crashing and their first solution is basically put a size limit on it.  Rather than trying other methods. Sorry, but every time I hear a programmer say "Its because its a size issue", I have a hard time believing they couldn't have figured out another way.  Especially when said issue is mysteriously fixed several months later. 

Admittedly, why bother trying to fix the big guilds, as they said, its only 1% of the entire population. 

Oh and yes, before you say anything, I have played several games in the past where they have conquered similar issues by upgrading their software/hardware.  It would not be impossible for a giant company like Blizzard to fix this issue.  But they'd rather take the easy way out to save time and $$.  Business as usual.

King

[X]

That's also called being lazy imo. 

King

How is that called being lazy?

Well, their problem is the interface crashing and their first solution is basically put a size limit on it.  Rather than trying other methods. Sorry, but every time I hear a programmer say "Its because its a size issue", I have a hard time believing they couldn't have figured out another way.  Especially when said issue is mysteriously fixed several months later. 

Admittedly, why bother trying to fix the big guilds, as they said, its only 1% of the entire population. 

Oh and yes, before you say anything, I have played several games in the past where they have conquered similar issues by upgrading their software/hardware.  It would not be impossible for a giant company like Blizzard to fix this issue.  But they'd rather take the easy way out to save time and $$.  Business as usual.

King

Or it could be the systems of the user not being able to handle things. There could be any number of reasons, but it seems short sighted to blame them without any proof. It also seems sort of short sighted to think that this is the reason. Again, it could be any number of things. Perhaps these larger guilds are damaging to the fun that others are trying to have? I mean if there are hundreds of people camping an area, that will cause some major slowdown.

It just seems a bit premature to blame Blizzard for a problem that you don't even know is the problem.

Making smaller guilds seem to allow for more guilds to be made. It seems to reduce the ability for one power to dominate a server or the economy. It also does a bit to protect the weak. Image if you are put on someone's hit list and there are 2k plus people after you in a game because you defended yourself from the actions of some twit.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

I don't disagree with you and I am only really defending this issue because of AIE.  But let's also face facts.  

I am a former guild leader of not 1, but actually 3 small guilds.  All were slightly successful, but short lived.  We were constantly out gunned, out matched by other larger groups.  We fought valiantly many times, but eventually we had to give up because we were out numbered.  A small guild of 100 or less will always be out matched by a guild of 1000.  And AIE for all intents and purposes are just adapting.  In the end, its just AIE #1, AIE #2 and AIE #3+.  This solves none of those above problems.  

Eve Online almost attempted a similar system for Alliances/Corporations.  All that would have done is forced the existing corporations and alliances to split up, but it wouldn't have done much.  If people want to group up, they will group up.  It is human nature and no game mechanic is going to "fix" this.  

And if you really piss off someone to enrage 2,000 people to kill you all the time, I gotta give you kudos, that is an achievement in it of itself.  (Not that I'm saying you did X). 

King

[billybob476]

The commonly held belief is that the development team was given an a deadline for which to fix the issue while maintaining current unlimited guild sizes. That deadline came and they had not reached a solution.

I work in software development. I have a common thing I say to stakeholders when they ask me if something is possible to do: "We can do anything you want, the only limitations on us are time and money."

if they wanted this guild advancement system to come out with Cataclysm, this is likely the most feasible solution given the time, money and manpower available.

[billybob476]

I don't disagree with you and I am only really defending this issue because of AIE.  But let's also face facts. 

I am a former guild leader of not 1, but actually 3 small guilds.  All were slightly successful, but short lived.  We were constantly out gunned, out matched by other larger groups.  We fought valiantly many times, but eventually we had to give up because we were out numbered.  A small guild of 100 or less will always be out matched by a guild of 1000.  And AIE for all intents and purposes are just adapting.  In the end, its just AIE #1, AIE #2 and AIE #3+.  This solves none of those above problems. 

Eve Online almost attempted a similar system for Alliances/Corporations.  All that would have done is forced the existing corporations and alliances to split up, but it wouldn't have done much.  If people want to group up, they will group up.  It is human nature and no game mechanic is going to "fix" this. 

King

The limit is bieng placed on guilds becuase of a new guild advancement system (http://www.wowwiki.com/Guild_advancement) that is being implemented, not for any other gameplay balance issues. They are in no way stopping anyone from grouping together and are in fact providing some guidance to the leadership of large guilds in managing the new limits.

[Bryancd]

The commonly held belief is that the development team was given an a deadline for which to fix the issue while maintaining current unlimited guild sizes. That deadline came and they had not reached a solution.

I work in software development. I have a common thing I say to stakeholders when they ask me if something is possible to do: "We can do anything you want, the only limitations on us are time and money."

if they wanted this guild advancement system to come out with Cataclysm, this is likely the most feasible solution given the time, money and manpower available.

You need to go for a run, just saying. :) 4500th post!

[KingIsaacLinksr]

I don't disagree with you and I am only really defending this issue because of AIE.  But let's also face facts.  

I am a former guild leader of not 1, but actually 3 small guilds.  All were slightly successful, but short lived.  We were constantly out gunned, out matched by other larger groups.  We fought valiantly many times, but eventually we had to give up because we were out numbered.  A small guild of 100 or less will always be out matched by a guild of 1000.  And AIE for all intents and purposes are just adapting.  In the end, its just AIE #1, AIE #2 and AIE #3+.  This solves none of those above problems.  

Eve Online almost attempted a similar system for Alliances/Corporations.  All that would have done is forced the existing corporations and alliances to split up, but it wouldn't have done much.  If people want to group up, they will group up.  It is human nature and no game mechanic is going to "fix" this.  

King

The limit is bieng placed on guilds becuase of a new guild advancement system (http://www.wowwiki.com/Guild_advancement) that is being implemented, not for any other gameplay balance issues. They are in no way stopping anyone from grouping together and are in fact providing some guidance to the leadership of large guilds in managing the new limits.

Yeah, I knew that.  I was mostly doing my favorite pastime around here, arguing with X ;).  

King

[Bryancd]

Yeah, I knew that.  I was mostly doing my favorite pastime around here, arguing with X ;). 

King

Sorry, son, you are still in the JV league for that. :)

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Yeah, I knew that.  I was mostly doing my favorite pastime around here, arguing with X ;). 

King

Sorry, son, you are still in the JV league for that. :)

Yeah, but that's why I practice ;).

King

[Bryancd]

Atta boy, aim high. :)

[X]

Yeah, I knew that.  I was mostly doing my favorite pastime around here, arguing with X ;). 

King

Sorry, son, you are still in the JV league for that. :)

I actually laughed out loud at that! That brightened my day!

[Feathers]

I work in software development. I have a common thing I say to stakeholders when they ask me if something is possible to do: "We can do anything you want, the only limitations on us are time and money."

if they wanted this guild advancement system to come out with Cataclysm, this is likely the most feasible solution given the time, money and manpower available.

Thank you! I've done my stint in software development and am somewhat fed up with hearing "it's only software there must be a solution".

The answer is "of course there is, how long have you got?".

Equally, comments having a dig at business for trying to make money are really starting to annoy me too. I work for a business and I hope they do make money since I quite like being paid! Constant digs at anyone who charges for anything get old really fast.

Of course as this is a King/X arguement practise arena now, I won't take any of the comment too seriously :D