Clone Wars: Season 3

[X]

I killed many a Nightsister on Dath playing Star Wars Galaxies.  The images of the planet looked like they came right from the game actually.  That game was a LucasArts property so I guess it is blessed canon (maybe not G canon).

I have to agree that I am not pleased with Maul returning. Not only was he cut in half, he went down the reactor shaft. So the only way he could return would be as a glowie, and it has never been shown that Sith know how to do that.  Heck, even Yoda did not know how to do that until Qui Gon showed him in Episode III, right?

Yeah, for the game, they were given the visuals of the show ahead of time. In the books, the nightsisters are secret and on the run from the other witches. They can't afford to have fancy bases with giant statues that scream "here we are.".

[billybob476]

Right, I know people are still reeling from what they did to the Mandalorians last season. IMO that was much more egregious then this. That change brought an entire EU book series that was currently IN PROGRESS to a halt and caused Karen Traviss to quit writing Star Wars alltogether. I really, really enjoyed the Republic Commando novels and again, that whole story arc was in no way dependent on taking place on Mandalore, it could have been any planet.

[X]

Right, I know people are still reeling from what they did to the Mandalorians last season. IMO that was much more egregious then this. That change brought an entire EU book series that was currently IN PROGRESS to a halt and caused Karen Traviss to quit writing Star Wars alltogether. I really, really enjoyed the Republic Commando novels and again, that whole story arc was in no way dependent on taking place on Mandalore, it could have been any planet.

That's why I have to laugh because Dathomir was a key focus in the novels released just last year. They made void the contents of a story that is still in progress. Gotta love the respect they give the readers.

The revised movie ending completely erased the need for the Rogue Squadron novels and Bacta Wars.

Sure, it's only books. Sure, there are different levels of canon. However, don't sell me on a franchise of books as the future of the Star Wars universe and then move to make those contents wrong in the eyes of the great continuity. It feels like a bait and switch. Here is what happens next gets transformed into high priced fanfic and that's wrong IMHO. GL said that Star Wars depends on the three pillars. Him the father, Ron Hoffman the ghost, and the fans the holy spirit. When you go out of you way to screw up the books, you sort of crap on the holy spirit. The people that were buying books and keeping the dream alive in the decades where there were no new movies or tv shows. How about a thanks for sticking in and buying stuff from my universe instead of oh we screwed you over here too for no reason? It's okay to take the names and concepts from the EU, but is there some mandate that they must be butchered and used it invalidate the source material?

[Geekyfanboy]

Wow.. so much hate going on.. I just enjoy Star Wars for what it is.. a fun entertaining show.  I don't understand why people can't just take the movies/cartoon/live action as one universe and the books/comic books as another universe. 

[Feathers]

I don't think anyone's 'hating' anything. We've had a bit of mild disapproval expressed but nothing stornger.

As to your question, I think people can take them as seperate universes, I just don't think they see why they should have to when a bit of work on the writers part would have avoided the problem altogether.

Anything is possible, look at the effort that ST went to to explain the Prime and Alternate universes.

I haven't seen season 3 yet, much less read the EU books, but I do get hung up on this sort of stuff. It's just the way I am.

[Bryancd]

Wow.. so much hate going on.. I just enjoy Star Wars for what it is.. a fun entertaining show.  I don't understand why people can't just take the movies/cartoon/live action as one universe and the books/comic books as another universe.  

I wouldn't confuse passion for hate. I appreciate that people have vested a lot of emotional, intellectual, and financial capital into the EU and are defensive of any alteration to it. And although they would would rather have their vision of SW incorporated into GL's canon, they also understand it's his party. I appreciate what Chris and Joe are saying and would suggest they don't "hate" Clone Wars they just  "wish" it could be more incorporating of the EU. It's not, it's not going to be, I think that ship has sailed. When GL looks at SW, the Holy Trilogy is his story, the EU, and the licencing. He doesn't care about the EU in any meaningful way and I get that and don't take umbrage in that position. He's telling a whole different story that's only in his head.

[X]

Wow.. so much hate going on.. I just enjoy Star Wars for what it is.. a fun entertaining show.  I don't understand why people can't just take the movies/cartoon/live action as one universe and the books/comic books as another universe.  

It's pretty simple. I know you love the movies and you are invested in them. If someone did something to make the movies no longer matter in the story, it would be upsetting right? That's how some of the people reading the books feel. We were sold stories that were suppose to comprise the story before, during, and after the movies. Now, we're being told that these stories don't actually count. Stories that are still coming out are now invalid in the greater context of the epic. Not only are they taking from the EU, they are butchering what they take. I think that's the more insulting part of it all. People who bought the books invested a lot of cash into knowing what happens next in Star Wars and that's being undermined without rhyme or reason. None of the storylines that have played in Clone Wars and ruined EU stories needed to be set in the places they were and could have delivered the same story for the kids without pissing on the book fans.

If it wasn't for the EU, we wouldn't have a lot of the place that are famous in Star Wars. We wouldn't have Coruscant, Mandalore, or Dathamir. If they are going to use from those sources, the least they could do is respect them. It's not like the kids would notice if these storylines took place on other worlds. They take things we recognize from the books, yet they destroy them in the process and that's unnecessary.

I also don't think this has anything to do with hate. It's disapointment. Lucas has gone on the record and said that the fans are part of what makes the universe. Why destroy why they were enjoying by invalidating it for no real reason? Without the books and games to keep the franchise alive, I don't think that there would have been a new trilogy. The people reading and playing helped to make the franchise more popular than ever. Their love of the written media help to get new toys made.

I have no problems seeing them as different universes. That's a good idea, but two problem with that. Books aren't allow to go against established canon unless the story is one that isn't canon. That means that when they steal from the EU to put into the CW in was that don't match, the books are not valid any more. Is it that hard to just pick another name for a world or match it to the rest of the EU?

[billybob476]

There's no hate coming from me :)

I've tried writing this post three times now and I can't really properly put it into words. The reason I don't take it as two separate universes is because we, as readers have been told by Lucas Licensing since 1995 that it is one cohesive universe. Huge strides were taken so that the books follow the movies and each other.

I enjoy Clone Wars, the fact that the Manadlorians are no longer awesome mercenaries with and incredibly intricate and strong culture, or that there is no Singing Mountain Clan that rides Rancors on Dathomir isn't going to take away from that, it just makes me a bit sad that Clone Wars does have to take away the legitimacy from those great stories that I was assured BY LUCAS were indeed offical, sanctioned and in-canon.

[X]

As to your question, I think people can take them as seperate universes, I just don't think they see why they should have to when a bit of work on the writers part would have avoided the problem altogether.

Exactly. Something as simple as not Mandalore and not Dathomir would have not negated years of story. I think they worked harder looking up the locations to butcher them than they would have spent creating new worlds in the first place.

I appreciate what Chris and Joe are saying and would suggest they don't "hate" Clone Wars they just  "wish" it could be more incorporating of the EU. It's not, it's not going to be, I think that ship has sailed. When GL looks at SW, the Holy Trilogy is his story, the EU, and the licencing. He doesn't care about the EU in any meaningful way and I get that and don't take umbrage in that position. He's telling a whole different story that's only in his head.

Totally agree with this up to the part where he's telling a story in his head. I don't think he has a story to tell. If he does, it's pretty interesting how he uses names and places created by others. I think he goes with what he thinks will line the coffers and right now, Clone Wars is a bigger money maker than the novels. So Uncle George is going to focus on that.

[X]

I enjoy Clone Wars, the fact that the Manadlorians are no longer awesome mercenaries with and incredibly intricate and strong culture, or that there is no Singing Mountain Clan that rides Rancors on Dathomir isn't going to take away from that, it just makes me a bit sad that Clone Wars does have to take away the legitimacy from those great stories that I was assured BY LUCAS were indeed offical, sanctioned and in-canon.

Seconded.

[Bryancd]

The reason I don't take it as two separate universes is because we, as readers have been told by Lucas Licensing since 1995 that it is one cohesive universe. Huge strides were taken so that the books follow the movies and each other.

Really? I ask becuase I'm not clear how or when Lucas Licensing actually expressed that or was it simply assumed?

[Bryancd]

Totally agree with this up to the part where he's telling a story in his head. I don't think he has a story to tell. If he does, it's pretty interesting how he uses names and places created by others. I think he goes with what he thinks will line the coffers and right now, Clone Wars is a bigger money maker than the novels. So Uncle George is going to focus on that.

See, here is where the EU fans loose me. I just can't get there from here. Same with people who hate, and they do HATE, the prequels. I just can't get that excised over the whole thing and lack the emotional energy to be that cynical about it.

[billybob476]

The reason I don't take it as two separate universes is because we, as readers have been told by Lucas Licensing since 1995 that it is one cohesive universe. Huge strides were taken so that the books follow the movies and each other.

Really? I ask becuase I'm not clear how or when Lucas Licensing actually expressed that or was it simply assumed?

Well, representatives of Lucas Licensing have stated that but in a lot of cases George himself says the opposite. Here's a good fairly quick read on the subject.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

[Rico]

Wow.. so much hate going on.. I just enjoy Star Wars for what it is.. a fun entertaining show.  I don't understand why people can't just take the movies/cartoon/live action as one universe and the books/comic books as another universe. 

I certainly don't see any hate.  I see a pretty constructive conversation about an interesting topic.  One of the tricky parts about "Star Wars" is there always has been so much written (books, comics, etc.) outside of the limited six movies we had until the animated series.  So much had to be worked out and extrapolated.  Heck, Tim Zahn's novels basically revived "Star Wars" and convinced Uncle George to make the prequels.  So, I think for many it's maybe a bit harder to separate the two things.  The books have certainly influenced what we have seen on screen.

The biggest thing about bringing Maul back to me is "Star Wars" has generally meant dead is dead.  A little "Force Ghost" is ok, but Obi-Wan chopped the guy in half and he fell down a reactor shaft.  I mean, that's pretty darn dead to me.

[Geekyfanboy]

Okay maybe hate was too strong a word (sorry).. more like disappointed.

I always have a hard time hearing people rip apart things I love (yes I know it's their opinion and everyone has the right to think whatever they want) but it doesn't mean I have to like it. I so dislike nitpickers... but to each his own.

I guess I'm just lucky that I don't care about those things.. I can just sit back, relax and escape into whatever world they want to bring me into.