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"Smallville" - season 10 (slight spoilers)

Started by Rico, August 25, 2010, 02:01:04 PM

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Poodyglitz

Quote from: Quarks Ally on May 20, 2011, 05:11:51 PM
It will be interesting to see how Smallville effects the Superman canon when they reboot the next movie.  I know some people don't like the idea of Smallville having any effect on the canon.

I would be one of those people. The fact that Superman is the last son of Krypton makes no sense when Jor-El is still alive. Part of the Superman mythos is that he's the ultimate orphan adopted by Earth. Having Lois and Clark meet while he still lives in Smallville takes away the air of mystery and sexual tension in the grown-up Superman story. The fact that Clark meets up with the classic foes before he's Superman kind of messes things up.

It would have been one thing to make Smallville a separate pre-Superman story without calling Clark "Superboy". I get that. I also understand that they needed to "Buffy-tize" the series to gain a young audience. But it seems to me that a lot of what they did with the classic villains was a cop out...like they couldn't come up with their own ideas. This seems evidenced by the early "freak of the week" episodes, which clearly ran out of steam quickly.

While Smallville was interesting television at times, many of the co-opted ideas seemed premature. I would want the movie(s) to treat the villains and some of the other heroes as new.

Also, having Clark adopt a new persona so late was pretty flimsy. It's one thing to address the fact that mere glasses could fool people, but expecting us to believe that the world would forget so easily is too incredible. So much of the Superman story is the struggle between hiding his identity from Lois and and the world. Smallville takes that away from us. There's an inherent element of danger in that. If people know who Superman is, they can easily destroy him by killing the people closest to him.

So far, in my opinion, the best contemporary treatment of Superman was during the WB animated Superman/Batman Adventures. The Justice League Unlimited series also did a great job of bringing togther a world of superheroes.

I hope that the new Superman reboot takes the classic Superman story, makes it a bit more gritty and makes him more than just a super-bruiser. He comes from an advanced race of people. That genetic disposition coupled with his super powers makes him much more than a guy who can bench press more as well as run faster than anyone. Superman should be a pretty smart cookie.

I know that this makes me odd-man-out, but that's my two cents.

Quarks Ally

Actually I think we agree for the most part.  As  I said I DON'T think Lois - Lex - Clark meeting in Smallville works for the big screen or the bigger story. 
I like the show a lot more than you did though.  I think the show biggest problem was it's long run caused them to have to draw out the story too long.  I think the building of the false Clark came too late.  Though I still think some non Superman fans still have trouble wrapping their minds around the fact that the Clark Kent we see(glasses and all) isn't' the real Clark.  I thought Tom Welling did a great job of bringing life to a character that had started to become robo-superhero.  He brought heart, soul, and intelligence to the role. 

I still think a few things will be taken from Smallville. 

The age of his earth parents.

Lois knowing his secret sooner.  I like the idea that she knows, but Clark doesn't know that she knows.  That keeps the sexual tension, but keeps her IQ in tact. 

A darker less goofy Lex.  A character that isn't just a psycho nut just for the sake of being psycho nut, like the Joker.  But a more complex villain.  (Thank you Michael Rosenbaum.)

And a Clark and Superman that is more than just (hands on hips, I'll save you Lois.) Kind of robo Superman.  A man who is very smart.  A Clark and Superman that isn't just an ultra boy scout, but a decent person because he was raised to be. 

A darker grittier story would be welcome as you said.  As long as they don't turn Superman into Batman.  Because as much as I love the Bat, Superman is most definitely not Batman. 
A fruitful journey to the Divine Treasury.

Rico

The Superman/Clark character has been around for over 70 years.  There have been MANY interpretations.  I greatly enjoyed "Smallville" for ten seasons and it was one version.  I also have enjoyed most of the films, comics, other TV shows, etc. that have been done about this character.  Hopefully the next film will be enjoyable as well but there is really no reason to think they are planning on keeping anything specific from "Smallville" and carrying it over into the next film.  Just keep in mind many of the things "Smallville" showed have turned up in various ways before.  It was just one version of the Man of Steel as he grew up.   

Poodyglitz

Quote from: Quarks Ally on May 25, 2011, 06:07:36 PM
Actually I think we agree for the most part.

Tom Welling made a great young Clark Kent. I really enjoyed the first two seasons of the show and had great hopes for it -- like seeing Clark fly. The early tension between Clark and Lana was wonderful. Having Lex made plenty of sense as canon has him and Clark being boyhood friends.

A darker Lex in the movies will be a welcome element to movie canon. I was never really comfortable with crackpot Lex. The Lex Luthor from the Superman/Batman Adventures made plenty of sense.

Call me a traditionalist (a term I've avoided most of my life) but I'd prefer the tension of hiding from Lois while being madly in love with her. The unrequited love angle can be pretty powerful. However, the age of his Earth parents can work to show the source of Clark/Superman's values. It might be nice if Superman's relationship with his parents is something similar to Captain Kirk's relationship with Dr. McCoy. Having a confidante with whom he can express self-doubt, fear and be kept in check when he thinks too much of himself might be cool.

I definitely agree that "robo Superman" just doesn't fly (pun intended). Smallville hinted at one of the psychological issues is Superman filtering out the world around him, then prioritizing who gets helped and when. The animated series hinted at the fact that even with super foes, Superman holds back his full strength. It would be great to see Superman also deal with the loneliness of being different as well as being seen as the world's genie or super utility.

I agree that showing him as a decent human being is the right way to go. However, it would still be interesting for others (like his foes, Batman and Green Arrow) to view him as a boy scout simply because he's more optimistic than them. Superman should live in a dark world, by virtue of the fact that he's in a big city. One of his biggest challenges should be not succumbing to the darkness.

X

Here is my problem with the whole Last son of Krypton myth. It hasn't been around that long. It was done after Crisis when Superman was reinvented in the mid 80's. Before that time and even now, there are LOTS of Kryptonians.

When you have a space faring culture, it never made sense that everyone on your planet would come home for it to get blown up.

I also never liked the Lois and Clark triangle. It made sense in the 60's but not much after that. It's one of those hold overs where women needed men to be strong and even a woman reporter with direct contact with Clark and Sups just didn't have the brain power to figure it out. I think that has alway done a disservice to Lois as a reporter.

Poodyglitz

#95
Quote from: Rico on May 25, 2011, 07:04:49 PM
The Superman/Clark character has been around for over 70 years.  There have been MANY interpretations.  I greatly enjoyed "Smallville" for ten seasons and it was one version.  I also have enjoyed most of the films, comics, other TV shows, etc. that have been done about this character.  Hopefully the next film will be enjoyable as well but there is really no reason to think they are planning on keeping anything specific from "Smallville" and carrying it over into the next film.  Just keep in mind many of the things "Smallville" showed have turned up in various ways before.  It was just one version of the Man of Steel as he grew up.  

After 70 years, I certainly don't expect to see a milk and cookies Superman. By the same token, I don't want to see a brainless Superman either.

While I don't expect the movie to be overly-informed (if informed at all) by Smallville, there were some good elements brought out in the series. Like I said before, the notion of filtering out the noise of life is very interesting. The series used a truth of growing up, particularly teenage angst, and applied it to young Clark kent/Superman. However, I view the series as an Earth 2 or 3 Superman story.

Smallville was a great concept in that it was the first young Clark Kent story that had some quality to it. As iconic as Superman is, he deserves to be taken seriously because he somehow represents the best in us. The element of strength under control is really interesting. and has great potential. It's about time to see a set of Superman stories that hold up from beginning to middle to end.

Frank Miller's Dark Knight series of graphic novels really made the world of Batman and Superman really evocative. The story was so deep. The clash of the two titans made for exciting reading as well. That two people on pretty much the same side of the law would have conflict due to different perspectives on how it was upheld made me really believe.

I'd like to see Superman stories on the big screen with that kind of power. With Christopher Nolan as a producer of the new movie, there's hope of seeing a great Earth Prime Superman.

Poodyglitz

Quote from: X on May 25, 2011, 08:49:24 PM
Here is my problem with the whole Last son of Krypton myth. It hasn't been around that long. It was done after Crisis when Superman was reinvented in the mid 80's. Before that time and even now, there are LOTS of Kryptonians.

When you have a space faring culture, it never made sense that everyone on your planet would come home for it to get blown up.

I also never liked the Lois and Clark triangle. It made sense in the 60's but not much after that. It's one of those hold overs where women needed men to be strong and even a woman reporter with direct contact with Clark and Sups just didn't have the brain power to figure it out. I think that has alway done a disservice to Lois as a reporter.

I get your point on the last Son of Krypton thing. Actually, I'd love to see a great Supergirl movie. I never got into the city of Kandor thing. And Lord, please, let us never see Krypto the super dog or a super horse or super monkey from Krypton. Unless I'm missing something, that leaves characters from the Phantom Zone.

The Lois Lane issue is difficult. I definitely agree that she needs to be strong and intelligent. My view of her was always strong, smart, driven and independent, which is why she's the perfect match for Superman.  The Clark wearing glasses thing is difficult to work around. However, I perhaps this is a great opportunity for an actor to bring a new dimension to Clark Kent. Part of the brilliance of Superman, in my opinion, is how well Clark Kent hides the fact that he's The Man of Steel.

I don't believe that the story has to be comic book-ish in tone to keep the Clark/Superman dichotomy intact.

That said, I think I can get behind Lois knowing about Clark being Superman without his knowledge. I never saw her as a dumb or weak woman who had to be saved. She's just so driven that it makes her fearless (or wreckless, depending on your perspective).

Other than that, it would be great to see the Fourth World characters (Darkseid, Orion, etc.) done in a compelling way.