"STAR TREK Into Darkness" - 2013

[Bromptonboy]

Hmm, seems to fit the facts that we know.
[spoiler]Perhaps this new name is a 'nom de guerre' that he uses while in the Federation?[/spoiler]

[Bryancd]

Hmm, seems to fit the facts that we know.
[spoiler]Perhaps this new name is a 'nom de guerre' that he uses while in the Federation?[/spoiler]

The way I read it..
[spoiler]He doesn't know his name is Khan, they give him the name JH[/spoiler]

[Dangelus]

I conjectured the first part of this idea a while back in this thread. A couple of issues though:

[spoiler]Khan doesn't know who he is? Did they wrote his memory first? Did they also alter him surgically too since he had gone from an Indian Sikh emperor to a push British white guy?

Also why would the federation suddenly change the law and allow augments to serve in starfleet? I dunno...[/spoiler]

[Rico]

Dan - really easy answers to some of that...

[spoiler]The fact that he is an augment could be something he has hidden until a certain point.  Or certain augments are actually ok in this universe.  Also, you must keep in mind always this is an alternate universe.  Some people think it just altered when Nero came over and that isn't the case.  This is a different universe - period.  Not everything will match up to the prime universe.  One of the many reasons JJ and the writers went this way.  They can do basically anything they want.  I frankly still think maybe he takes the name Khan later in the film.  Maybe more as a title than a name.[/spoiler]

[Bryancd]

Dan - really easy answers to some of that...

[spoiler]The fact that he is an augment could be something he has hidden until a certain point.  Or certain augments are actually ok in this universe.  Also, you must keep in mind always this is an alternate universe.  Some people think it just altered when Nero came over and that isn't the case.  This is a different universe - period.  Not everything will match up to the prime universe.  One of the many reasons JJ and the writers went this way.  They can do basically anything they want.  I frankly still think maybe he takes the name Khan later in the film.  Maybe more as a title than a name.[/spoiler]

Yeah, that's the way I am looking at it as well.

[Dangelus]

Dan - really easy answers to some of that...

[spoiler]The fact that he is an augment could be something he has hidden until a certain point.  Or certain augments are actually ok in this universe.  Also, you must keep in mind always this is an alternate universe.  Some people think it just altered when Nero came over and that isn't the case.  This is a different universe - period.  Not everything will match up to the prime universe.  One of the many reasons JJ and the writers went this way.  They can do basically anything they want.  I frankly still think maybe he takes the name Khan later in the film.  Maybe more as a title than a name.[/spoiler]

Yeah, that's the way I am looking at it as well.

I can accept that. I really think they fudged the explanation of that in the first movie so I can my brain keeps trying to reconcile the changes as if it was the incursion to the past that caused this alternate universe. So it is the general opinion that this universe is similar to the mirror universe in add much as things are just different from the offset? OK fair enough.

[Rico]

I never had a problem understanding the alternate universe they created back with the 2009 film.  Mainly because to me it was obvious that they were not going to eliminate the entire history of Trek by altering the Prime universe and all the movies and series that came before that film.  The only thing they could do was have an alternate universe.  It's a perfect and elegant solution to create a whole new world of Trek that people who never were into Trek can enjoy - as well as long time fans like us.  It lets them do anything they want now.  And that's a writers dream.

[WillEagle]

If someone already posted this I must have missed it. Here is some cool pics from the movie. And as mentioned before lots of black leather.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1408101/mediaindex?ref_=hm_snp_t6

[Bryancd]

I have said it before but I still wish they had just rebooted the whole thing and not bothered with the Spock prime, time travel story. I would have been fine with that personally. I actually find it somewhat irritating trying to do the reconciliation JJ has hoisted upon us.

[Rico]

Bryan - they did basically reboot the whole thing.  One of my points above is there doesn't have to be any reconciliation.  This is a separate universe.  They can do anything they want.  Anything!  From a weird engine room brewery to Spock & Uhura as an item - anything.  For even someone like me who can pretty much recite every TOS from memory I have no problem with this.  But I would have had a HUGE problem if they had wiped out the well known Trek universe.

[Bryancd]

Re-booting doesn't wipe out what came before. I don't feel that way about BSG for example. Or all the myriad of Super Hero films that have been rebooted.

[Rico]

Re-booting doesn't wipe out what came before. I don't feel that way about BSG for example. Or all the myriad of Super Hero films that have been rebooted.

I understand what you mean.  I thought you had meant a reboot as in altering the timeline in the known Trek universe.  There are different ways to do a "reboot."  I liked that they tried to connect the two universes.  Eventually it would allow possible cross-over type stories - if they decided to do that.  Also, Star Trek has already well established the idea of an alternate universe previously with the Mirror universe stories.  Not to mention that TNG episode with Worf and all the gazillion Enterprise's popping up in different universes.  So they just built on that idea.

[Bryancd]

Yeah, there certainly was precedent! I think part of me just wishes that the '09 movie and this one coming up (if the rumors are true) seem to have to rely on previous Trek canon a bit too much and it would be less convoluted of they could not keep referencing it, if you get my meaning. I was hoping the new film would contain story elements or characters from old Trek but not feel the need to make an actual connection in the film to old Trek, assuming that happens.

[davekill]

Yeah, there certainly was precedent! I think part of me just wishes that the '09 movie and this one coming up (if the rumors are true) seem to have to rely on previous Trek canon a bit too much and it would be less convoluted of they could not keep referencing it, if you get my meaning. I was hoping the new film would contain story elements or characters from old Trek but not feel the need to make an actual connection in the film to old Trek, assuming that happens.

You mean as a new start, this franchise suffers from too much baggage?

Could be like a first date with someone recovering from a bad relationship.

[Dangelus]

My issue had always been the confusion surrounding the Prime Spock and the time travel. It want clear that this was already an alternate universe add it implied the initial changes were caused by Nero's incursion, (Kirk's birth and alternate childhood) with visual and cosmetic changes due to a reimagining of the technology from a 21st century perspective. This would imply that all previous history shouldn't change, is Khan should still be a Sikh etc. What we really have is in fact a type of mirror universe that had always been different but this was not made clear IMHO.