"STAR TREK Into Darkness" - 2013

[Rico]

I can understand Tim's comments and he is entitled to his views - as is everyone here as well.  Keep in mind none of us have obviously seen this next movie and I haven't seen anyone yet say they absolutely won't be seeing it.

One thing I want to point out is there are various forms and levels of rebooting or rehashing things.  I always felt each Trek series had the name Trek and some similar things but each series felt unique.  One reason I enjoyed Abrams 2009 film so much is he took some well known characters and kind of made them new again.  A very tricky thing to pull off.  So, I'm hoping for the same thing with Khan.  I still think a new concept or idea would have been nice, but I'll wait and see what they come up with.  I have a feeling it will be new and fresh enough to be viewed very differently than the Khan and previous story we know so well.

[billybob476]

Plus Mr. Cumberbatch doesn't have the right pecs to play classic Khan, so it has to be a different take :)

[KingIsaacLinksr]

First STAR WARS now STAR TREK, King! What, are you going to become a Twilight fan?! You are running out of franchises!

You know what I really want to say.... ;)

HAH. That's funny. :D.  And no, I already tried Twilight....not my thing at all. ;). I guess I have been ragging on Star Trek/Wars a lot lately. I still have some concerns about Trek, but that's for another thread and time.

@Joby, not going to quote all that text :P.  Ok, even rereading my post, it was hasty. Because we don't know what the plot is. If it is as X says, then I would actually be fine with it. I guess my problem is, is that I'm apparently so cynical that the fact that Khan will be in it means an immediate rehashing of the same old plot/story in my head. Which is unfair to the writers. What I really should have said is that if they remake the story of #2 again, then the series has no hope. So....yeah. That was a stupid post I made. Not the first nor last I'll make heh.

And that's what I meant by original concept, I meant an original story, which at this point is mostly likely going to happen if the pics we've seen are any indication. Spock fighting Khan would be interesting to watch...

And well, I'm pretty dang cynical about TV/Movies right now. Films haven't been all that fun or enjoyable and TV series have been getting cancelled left and right that I enjoyed. I'm still pretty bitter about SGU getting cancelled, as stupid as that might be at this point. Its hard not to be cynical about those industries. But with the Avengers as of recent, that was a ton of fun. Maybe Hollywood will take a page out of its book. I'm slightly hopeful about it.

Thanks for the kind comments though, I appreciate them :).

King

[Bryancd]

Go see "Avengers" it will restore your faith in film. And "Prometheus" next month. :)

[Jobydrone]

What I really should have said is that if they remake the story of #2 again, then the series has no hope.

I'd bet the farm there's no mention of Genesis or Kirk's son anywhere to be found in the next film!  It wouldn't surprise me if Spock dies at the end though.

I knew you would take my comments in the spirit with which I intended them, Tim.  I'd never imply that you weren't entitled to speak your mind or consider your opinion any less valid than mine or anyone elses.  That's the best thing about the TrekSF forums!

edit to add:  also I wouldn't feel the freedom to speak so candidly if I didn't consider you a friend I've known for years!

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Go see "Avengers" it will restore your faith in film. And "Prometheus" next month. :)

I did see Avengers last Saturday, hence why I mentioned it in my post above yours ;D.  Not sure if I'll see Prometheus or not.... I mean, I liked Alien(s), but its not my genre. We'll see.

What I really should have said is that if they remake the story of #2 again, then the series has no hope.

I'd bet the farm there's no mention of Genesis or Kirk's son anywhere to be found in the next film!  It wouldn't surprise me if Spock dies at the end though.

I knew you would take my comments in the spirit with which I intended them, Tim.  I'd never imply that you weren't entitled to speak your mind or consider your opinion any less valid than mine or anyone elses.  That's the best thing about the TrekSF forums!

edit to add:  also I wouldn't feel the freedom to speak so candidly if I didn't consider you a friend I've known for years!

Even if you did imply that I wasn't allowed to speak my mind/considered my opinion less valid, I would have ignored the implication. ;). (Though might have called you on it ;))  Until I get banned from TSF, I'll keep on making my posts, even if they can be quite daft or blockheaded :P.  hehehe. But around here anyway, I figure we can all at least listen to each other and I do try and see it from other people's perspectives. I know I'm not right all the time. (Shocking, I know ;))

If Kirk has a son, I'd be a bit surprised at this point. I mean, a baby is possible, considering what a lady's man he is, but beyond that, no, its pretty doubtful.  And yeah, Genesis is also pretty unlikely, we've already had one doomsday-like weapon already, adding another one would lead to watcher-fatigue.

So yeah, no problems from me :).

King

[Dangelus]

There's a couple of things we have to remember about this new "reboot" universe. They have to stay consistent to "Prime" Trek universe history up until the point of where the divergence happened when Nero came back in time. I am making assumptions based to the tie in comics that we're more geared towards the old fans and helped to ground this new universe in context to the old.

They can't start making changes to previous events in my opinion. If they do then they will be muddying the waters of reboot / alternate universe even more. This was my real problem with the first movie. They didn't commit to what this universe was. They concentrated on grabbing new fans and didn't want to take the time to neatly tie this into the old universe in a way that made explicit assertions.

Assuming it IS an alternate universe that diverged from Nero entering the past then it makes total sense we will have Khan on the Botany Bay in this. Don't forget this will most likely be an alternate take on "Space Seed" not TWOK (way too early in the timeline for that).

I'm confidennt we will get an entertaining movie. I would have preferred something else but I'm not making is movie :)

[Feathers]

Of course it also leaves things open to remake TWOK in thirty years time with the same cast if that's the way they choose to play it :).

[Rico]

There's a couple of things we have to remember about this new "reboot" universe. They have to stay consistent to "Prime" Trek universe history up until the point of where the divergence happened when Nero came back in time. I am making assumptions based to the tie in comics that we're more geared towards the old fans and helped to ground this new universe in context to the old.

They can't start making changes to previous events in my opinion. If they do then they will be muddying the waters of reboot / alternate universe even more. This was my real problem with the first movie. They didn't commit to what this universe was. They concentrated on grabbing new fans and didn't want to take the time to neatly tie this into the old universe in a way that made explicit assertions.

Assuming it IS an alternate universe that diverged from Nero entering the past then it makes total sense we will have Khan on the Botany Bay in this. Don't forget this will most likely be an alternate take on "Space Seed" not TWOK (way too early in the timeline for that).

I'm confidennt we will get an entertaining movie. I would have preferred something else but I'm not making is movie :)

Dan, while I see your point I'm not quite sure the makers of the movie see it exactly like that.  First, you are counting on the audience being in tune with these kinds of nuances and details.  Second, I know people who still think this is just one big changed timeline - not an alternate universe.  While I pretty much agree with your points, I still think they could in fact change the past.  Nero certainly changed things, but there is no real evidence in the movie that says this alternate universe was exactly the same as the Prime universe up to the point in time Nero popped over.  So, I think just about anything could happen.  I personally am hoping for the Enterprise or maybe another ship finding Khan and his minions floating in space aboard the Botany Bay, but it may not turn out that way.

[Meds]

I'm not saying anything until I see it.

[Rico]

Fun story here about them filming on location near a small town on California.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/video/7178352-star-trek-sequel-scenes-being-filmed-at-lawrence-livermore-lab/

[Dangelus]

There's a couple of things we have to remember about this new "reboot" universe. They have to stay consistent to "Prime" Trek universe history up until the point of where the divergence happened when Nero came back in time. I am making assumptions based to the tie in comics that we're more geared towards the old fans and helped to ground this new universe in context to the old.

They can't start making changes to previous events in my opinion. If they do then they will be muddying the waters of reboot / alternate universe even more. This was my real problem with the first movie. They didn't commit to what this universe was. They concentrated on grabbing new fans and didn't want to take the time to neatly tie this into the old universe in a way that made explicit assertions.

Assuming it IS an alternate universe that diverged from Nero entering the past then it makes total sense we will have Khan on the Botany Bay in this. Don't forget this will most likely be an alternate take on "Space Seed" not TWOK (way too early in the timeline for that).

I'm confidennt we will get an entertaining movie. I would have preferred something else but I'm not making is movie :)

Dan, while I see your point I'm not quite sure the makers of the movie see it exactly like that.  First, you are counting on the audience being in tune with these kinds of nuances and details.  Second, I know people who still think this is just one big changed timeline - not an alternate universe.  While I pretty much agree with your points, I still think they could in fact change the past.  Nero certainly changed things, but there is no real evidence in the movie that says this alternate universe was exactly the same as the Prime universe up to the point in time Nero popped over.  So, I think just about anything could happen.  I personally am hoping for the Enterprise or maybe another ship finding Khan and his minions floating in space aboard the Botany Bay, but it may not turn out that way.

That's exactly my point, they haven't committed to what this universe is and so yes you're right anything goes I suppose. It's a brilliant move on their part since they are free to do whatever they like. I guess we will find out once we encounter a change that predates Nero's intervention. In a way I hope we do because then I personally can relax as I'll know what I'm dealing with then! Haha

[Dangelus]

Of course it also leaves things open to remake TWOK in thirty years time with the same cast if that's the way they choose to play it :).

I hope they are bold and draw a line here and Khan is killed in this movie. If this happens we are really talking BIG changes from Prime universe events in the future! :)

[X]

There's a couple of things we have to remember about this new "reboot" universe. They have to stay consistent to "Prime" Trek universe history up until the point of where the divergence happened when Nero came back in time. I am making assumptions based to the tie in comics that we're more geared towards the old fans and helped to ground this new universe in context to the old.

They can't start making changes to previous events in my opinion. If they do then they will be muddying the waters of reboot / alternate universe even more. This was my real problem with the first movie. They didn't commit to what this universe was. They concentrated on grabbing new fans and didn't want to take the time to neatly tie this into the old universe in a way that made explicit assertions.

Assuming it IS an alternate universe that diverged from Nero entering the past then it makes total sense we will have Khan on the Botany Bay in this. Don't forget this will most likely be an alternate take on "Space Seed" not TWOK (way too early in the timeline for that).

I'm confidennt we will get an entertaining movie. I would have preferred something else but I'm not making is movie :)

Dan, while I see your point I'm not quite sure the makers of the movie see it exactly like that.  First, you are counting on the audience being in tune with these kinds of nuances and details.  Second, I know people who still think this is just one big changed timeline - not an alternate universe.  While I pretty much agree with your points, I still think they could in fact change the past.  Nero certainly changed things, but there is no real evidence in the movie that says this alternate universe was exactly the same as the Prime universe up to the point in time Nero popped over.  So, I think just about anything could happen.  I personally am hoping for the Enterprise or maybe another ship finding Khan and his minions floating in space aboard the Botany Bay, but it may not turn out that way.

That's exactly my point, they haven't committed to what this universe is and so yes you're right anything goes I suppose. It's a brilliant move on their part since they are free to do whatever they like. I guess we will find out once we encounter a change that predates Nero's intervention. In a way I hope we do because then I personally can relax as I'll know what I'm dealing with then! Haha

When the movie started, there was already changes that predated Nero, such as George Kirk and wife being aboard the ship. The design of the ships and uniforms were already different before we saw Nero.

It was a different universe to start with and then it got further changed by the Nero Incident.

[Dangelus]

The uniforms and ship designs I would disregard as changes to the universe since they've just updated to a modern look. I doubt they would have made this movie with the  60's look.

I don't know the details of Kirk's original birth apart from he was born on Earth in Prime? Not sure where this is stated.

I'm happy to go with this universe being an alternate reality from the get go as it does pretty much solve all the problems that crop up. I just wish they had been more explicit in stating this to appease nitpickers like me! :)