U.S. Politics

[ElfManDan]

There was actually a lady yesterday caught on tape saying "I am so excited.  I cannot believe this is happening.  Now I don't have to worry about puuting gas in my car anymore, I don't have to worry about paying mortgage either because I know if I help Obama, he will help me"   That is frightening to me in it's absolute ignorance

Actually, Obama wasn't lying.  He just meant we won't own either a car or house by the time he is done >_> 

Sorry sorry, bad humor.  But really, a lot of people are putting a lot of faith in one man.  To be really honest, we blame or praise WAY TOO MUCH on the presidency.  We blame Bush for the War.  Excuse me??!  CONGRESS WAS INVOLVED HERE.  Congress still has to vote yes/no on going to war and last I checked, they voted YES on the war.  If we must, we should be putting Congress on trial, not Pres. Bush.  We blame Bush for our current economical state.  What?!  I'm sorry, but I believe the BANKS and people who bought WAY TOO MUCH housing are to blame.  Not our presidency.  No, I don't mean that Bush is totally exempt from what has happened, but last I checked, he doesn't operate on his own.  He has his own council, he still has to check with Congress with things.  He is not a dictator but a President with checks and balances. 

Quit putting so much blame/faith in the Presidency.  He is one man.  He is not God. 

King

Well said, I haven't been sure in most of this when I should post any of my opinions, but I think what you said was very well put and very close to my own belief of truth.

[WiseGuy43]

Another thing about Obama that I can't understand is this...How can a man who says that the Constitution of the United States of America is "fundamentally flawed" (his words NOT mine) be able to take oath of office to uphold such constitution? And if you start changing the constitution you no longer have this United States but the Obama Nation. You also re-open every constitutional battleground to have to be fought again. It makes no sense to me that people would vote against the very thing that has given them their freedoms but they have if Obama has his way and is able to change the constitution.

Kevin

OBAMA NATION say that five times fast


hint:(Abomination)

[Feathers]

OBAMA NATION say that five times fast
hint:(Abomination)

Ouch! I don't think I'll be checking this thread again today - I think it might get a bit warm.

[Geekyfanboy]

OBAMA NATION say that five times fast

hint:(Abomination)

This thread has remained fairly civil that is one thing I enjoy about his forum and group of people. I know Wiseguy you are new to us so I'll give you this warning. Please do not spew hate words on this forum. If you do not like President elect Obama you have every right to voice your opinion but please keep a civil tongue.

Thank you,
Kenny - Co-Moderator

[alanp]

Well, last night wasn't a fun night to be a conservative.  It's never fun to throw the keys to the car to the other side, but we had our turn and I guess it's time to let the other side have their turn.  I'm glad it's over and congratulations to all the winners.  And to those in my party, better luck next time...

Though I would like to think we have learned not to be as shrill as we have been the last 8 years.  We should hold a respect for our public officials and the offices they hold even when they are people we don't agree with.  Because at some point, we will need them.

At the university where I graduated; there was trouble recently.  A boy with epilepsy was being evicted for his condition.  I called all the key local and state level elected officials as well as our congressman and both senators.  Almost all of them called to let the school know they had been contacted about this issue.  The school quickly allowed him to move back in.  I had to rely on people who I have never supported nor voted for.  And you learn a lot about our public servants when in that situation.

[sheldor]

Well, last night wasn't a fun night to be a conservative.  It's never fun to throw the keys to the car to the other side, but we had our turn and I guess it's time to let the other side have their turn.  I'm glad it's over and congratulations to all the winners.  And to those in my party, better luck next time...

Though I would like to think we have learned not to be as shrill as we have been the last 8 years.  We should hold a respect for our public officials and the offices they hold even when they are people we don't agree with.  Because at some point, we will need them.

At the university where I graduated; there was trouble recently.  A boy with epilepsy was being evicted for his condition.  I called all the key local and state level elected officials as well as our congressman and both senators.  Almost all of them called to let the school know they had been contacted about this issue.  The school quickly allowed him to move back in.  I had to rely on people who I have never supported nor voted for.  And you learn a lot about our public servants when in that situation.

The republicans had a golden opportunity a few years back and missed it BIG time.  The democrats have a similar - if not stronger position.  However, they are in a precarious position.  President-elect Barack Hussein Obama can either do what he has said during the campaign - ignore simple economics and apply socialist ideas - creating a tightening of credit OR he could not do what he stated in his campaign and risk alienating the very people who he said would get some relief.    I thought President Clinton was bad - this guy has the potential to be far worse then even Carter.
Time will tell.

[Bryancd]

Another thing about Obama that I can't understand is this...How can a man who says that the Constitution of the United States of America is "fundamentally flawed" (his words NOT mine) be able to take oath of office to uphold such constitution? And if you start changing the constitution you no longer have this United States but the Obama Nation. You also re-open every constitutional battleground to have to be fought again. It makes no sense to me that people would vote against the very thing that has given them their freedoms but they have if Obama has his way and is able to change the constitution.

Kevin

OBAMA NATION say that five times fast


hint:(Abomination)

OBAMA NATION say that five times fast

hint:(Abomination)

This thread has remained fairly civil that is one thing I enjoy about his forum and group of people. I know Wiseguy you are new to us so I'll give you this warning. Please do not spew hate words on this forum. If you do not like President elect Obama you have every right to voice your opinion but please keep a civil tongue.

Thank you,
Kenny - Co-Moderator

x2, and I wasn't an Obama supporter, just an admirer.

[alanp]

But I think there is much to be said for how well the right is taking this.  In 2004, there were suisides!  And a mass apology website called "sorry everybody" that expressed regret to the rest of the world that more was not done to prevent Bush's relelection.

[wraith1701]

There was actually a lady yesterday caught on tape saying "I am so excited.  I cannot believe this is happening.  Now I don't have to worry about puuting gas in my car anymore, I don't have to worry about paying mortgage either because I know if I help Obama, he will help me"   That is frightening to me in it's absolute ignorance.

What's truly frightening is the number of people who don't realize that there are a few idiots on both sides of the political divide, and that ugly sound-bites are a dime a dozen.  I remember hearing one featuring a female McCain supporter saying that "If we elect a **gger, the country will fall apart."  Does this mean that I should assume that all McCain supporters share her views?  Of course not.  Nor should you assume that the majority of Obama supporters are a bunch of leeches looking for a free ride.

Remember; there are some journalists out there who are all about sensationalism; many rational quotes and interviews are often tossed out in favor of those that will evoke a strong emotional response in the viewer/reader.  Don't fall into the trap of assuming these clips represent the majority. 

Even more frightening was Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia who, in giving a speech to supporters, said that "For the past 8 years we have under Republicans who simplistically believe that
the wealthy are entitled to keep their money and show antipathy toward any redistribution on wealth".   This should be horrifying to those of us who believe in capitalism and the free market (which DOES work regardless of the current crisis.  We have come through worst than this).

Point being is I have no problem paying a certain amount of taxes for the government to do its business but I do have a problem with a government that feels the need to try and fix the ills of the country by dragging the top down rather than trying to bring poorest up.

Hope that made sense.

I understand what you are saying, but keep in mind that, either directly or indirectly, some of "The Top" got there by way of generations of exploitation.  The system that created the current distribution of wealth may have ended, but its effects, while waning, still exist. 

Despite what you might see on movies or TV, most poor don't think it's fun to be poor, nor do they desire to shirk their financial responsibilities.  Nearly everyone has a sense of pride, and most people aren't content to live off of handouts.  Some just need a hand to break out of the cycle of poverty. 

[Geekyfanboy]

That was very well said Wraith.. and I agree with you 100%

[Ktrek]

Despite what you might see on movies or TV, most poor don't think it's fun to be poor, nor do they desire to shirk their financial responsibilities.  Nearly everyone has a sense of pride, and most people aren't content to live off of handouts.  Some just need a hand to break out of the cycle of poverty. 

I personally can't really speak about what I see on TV because I don't have cable TV and have not had for a while now but I can speak from my own personal experience of dealing with the poor on almost a daily basis for many years now in various jobs or situations I have been in, and I can say from my own personal experience that very few of the poor want to break out of the cycle. It's just too easy when we enable them to just accept the free handout. Sad but it's true. Yes...there are always the exceptions and I am glad there are such but they are just that...an EXCEPTION. It's time for people to get off the plantation and quit depending on others for a handout. And I mean that with no disrespect toward black people whatsoever because I know plenty of white people who live off the plantation too! I truly wish I could agree with you Wraith but I have been too close to the problem to take your side on this.

Kevin

[wraith1701]

That was very well said Wraith.. and I agree with you 100%

Thanks man. :)

Despite what you might see on movies or TV, most poor don't think it's fun to be poor, nor do they desire to shirk their financial responsibilities.  Nearly everyone has a sense of pride, and most people aren't content to live off of handouts.  Some just need a hand to break out of the cycle of poverty. 

I personally can't really speak about what I see on TV because I don't have cable TV and have not had for a while now but I can speak from my own personal experience of dealing with the poor on almost a daily basis for many years now in various jobs or situations I have been in, and I can say from my own personal experience that very few of the poor want to break out of the cycle. It's just too easy when we enable them to just accept the free handout. Sad but it's true. Yes...there are always the exceptions and I am glad there are such but they are just that...an EXCEPTION. It's time for people to get off the plantation and quit depending on others for a handout. And I mean that with no disrespect toward black people whatsoever because I know plenty of white people who live off the plantation too! I truly wish I could agree with you Wraith but I have been too close to the problem to take your side on this.

Kevin

"Get off of the plantation?"

Easier said than done; especially if one hasn't inherited a spot on the plantation from ancestors who were forced there and held there, generation after generation, against their will.

...very few of the poor want to break out of the cycle. It's just too easy when we enable them to just accept the free handout.

I acknowledge that there are some poor folks out there who are content with living off of the system.  In my experience, many of the folks who fall into this category are substance addicts who have given up hope for a better life.  But I hesitate to say that most poor folks are content with being poor, or that "very few of the poor want to break out of the cycle".  I don't know all of the poor in the country, so I can't speak for them.  In fact, I'm not sure what jobs or situations you've found yourself in over the years, but I'm sorry that they have warped your perceptions to the point where you feel comfortable making sweeping generalizations.   

All I can speak on is what I've experienced. 

It's time for people to get off the plantation and quit depending on others for a handout.

I've lived part of my life in what some might consider 'the ghetto', or 'the plantation'.  You know, that part of every city that is considered 'the bad side of town', the part where all of the poor people and minorities live. 

Growing up, I've seen many kids, some of them family members, who were very bright, but due to the neighborhood they were born into, had to attend some pretty crappy schools.  I don't care how bright you are; if you are brought up in a school system in which many of the teachers can hardly read or write, odds are you aren't going to make it into college.  And if by some chance you do make it in, the odds are strongly stacked against you earning a degree. 

So what happens?  You end up working a crap job on the same 'plantation' that your parents, and their parents, and their parent's parents worked on.  If you end up having kids, they will attend the same crap schools that you attended, and end up with the same prospects in life: none.

I count myself fortunate in the fact that my grandfather was a military man.  because of this, my father was able to attend school at the different military bases my grandfather was stationed at.  This prepared him to actually compete with the kids who weren't raised 'on the plantation'.  Following in his dad's footsteps, my father chose to sell himself to the military to fund his college education.  While my father was serving his term  in the military (which entailed quite a bit of relocating), I also had the advantage of attending different schools-- In fact, I went to 3 different elementary schools, 2 different junior high schools, and 2 different high schools.  My last two years of high school were spent back on the ol' 'plantation' on the east side of San Antonio Texas.  I can tell you from first hand experience-- there IS a difference between schools in richer neighborhoods and those in poorer areas.  I find it difficult to express how frustrating and heartwrenching it can be to find yourself looking down on your teachers, and how difficult it can be to hide the cringes when an instructor struggles to read to the class form his or her lesson plan.  I had to bite my tongue so many times to keep myself from correcting my teachers, I'm surprised that my tongue is still intact. 

To make a long story short,  because of the advantage I had from attending other schools, I graduated in the top percentile of my high school class.  This allowed me to attend one of the finest universities in Texas, and to leave the plantation for good. 

Many of my old friends and family members weren't so lucky.  Some are dead. Others have been in and out of jail,having tried and failed to find an alternate route out of poverty. And others are trying to make the best honest living that they can.  They raise their kids to study hard, so that they can go to college like my brother and I did.  The sad thing is, no matter how hard they study, the schools they attend aren't going to prepare them for life beyond the east side. 

And I can tell you for a fact; they DO want to break the cycle.

[Ktrek]

All I can say Wraith is that if anyone can come from a broken home, living in or near poverty, press forward against odds and become president of the United States than ANYONE can succeed in life who really wants to. Mr. Obama should be an inspiration to anyone who has been born into adverse circumstances. He inspires me on that level.

And I might add that I came from very poor conditions as a child growing up. My father left my mother when I was two years old and she had to raise my brother and I alone for many years. My mother had no choice but to depend on welfare to get by but I still had a good upbringing and my mom encouraged me to do the best I could with what talents God has given me. I have done pretty well for myself considering my start in life. Mr. Obama would have been supportive of my mom aborting me at 17 years old but she was determined to keep her baby and am I sure glad she did. And I might add she is glad also because she has seen her son have a life better than she had. When I look at all the families from India, China, Japan and Muslim nations that come here and sacrifice to see their children have the best I cannot understand why Americans are so lazy? We want and believe we deserve a free handout! Anyone can break free of the cycle if they really want to. If not for themselves they can for their children but it takes self-sacrifice (sadly lacking today) and commitment. It means putting your children's future above all other considerations and if that means you doing with less so they can have more than so be it. That's called "parenting"!

Kevin

[Dan M]

Was I comparing him to MLK? Sure why not? Both gave speeches that motivated people into action. Both have/had ideas of creating something better together.

MLK didn't get elected a senator. MLK didn't get elected president.

In fact. The only thing that MLK did was motivate people into wanting to make a change and let's be honest. It was less than half the country that he motivated.

There are a lot of great men out there that if you look at what they did, it really doesn't amount to much other than inspire people to want to change. Plato, Socrates, MLK, Gandhi, Mother Theresa and the list goes on.

I am not saying that Obama is any of these people or even in their league of greatness, but at the same time all any of these people did was be an agent of change and they earned their right to be called great. Not for what the did, but for what they inspired others to do.

MLK inspired social change that has lasted and grown over decades. 

Obama inspired people to vote yesterday.  That's it.  (And you can make a very good case that George Bush was much more of an inspiration for that than Barack was.)

Everyone you listed was each an inspiration for millions of people and their inspiration stood the test of time and had lasting impact.

Barack's inspiration extends, so far, to yesterday's election results.

Wait until Mr. Obama fulfills his promise and potential before you start making plans to add a fifth head to Mt. Rushmore.

A majority of the country came out yesterday and decided to give him a chance.  That's it.  A chance.  Now he has to deliver.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Was I comparing him to MLK? Sure why not? Both gave speeches that motivated people into action. Both have/had ideas of creating something better together.

MLK didn't get elected a senator. MLK didn't get elected president.

In fact. The only thing that MLK did was motivate people into wanting to make a change and let's be honest. It was less than half the country that he motivated.

There are a lot of great men out there that if you look at what they did, it really doesn't amount to much other than inspire people to want to change. Plato, Socrates, MLK, Gandhi, Mother Theresa and the list goes on.

I am not saying that Obama is any of these people or even in their league of greatness, but at the same time all any of these people did was be an agent of change and they earned their right to be called great. Not for what the did, but for what they inspired others to do.

MLK inspired social change that has lasted and grown over decades. 

Obama inspired people to vote yesterday.  That's it.  (And you can make a very good case that George Bush was much more of an inspiration for that than Barack was.)

Everyone you listed was each an inspiration for millions of people and their inspiration stood the test of time and had lasting impact.

Barack's inspiration extends, so far, to yesterday's election results.

Wait until Mr. Obama fulfills his promise and potential before you start making plans to add a fifth head to Mt. Rushmore.

A majority of the country came out yesterday and decided to give him a chance.  That's it.  A chance.  Now he has to deliver.

Word.  :)

King