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Author Topic: U.S. Politics  (Read 19515 times)

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Offline wraith1701

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #150 on: November 05, 2008, 10:40:26 PM »
All I can say Wraith is that if anyone can come from a broken home, living in or near poverty, press forward against odds and become president of the United States than ANYONE can succeed in life who really wants to. Mr. Obama should be an inspiration to anyone who has been born into adverse circumstances. He inspires me on that level.

And I might add that I came from very poor conditions as a child growing up. My father left my mother when I was two years old and she had to raise my brother and I alone for many years. My mother had no choice but to depend on welfare to get by but I still had a good upbringing and my mom encouraged me to do the best I could with what talents God has given me. I have done pretty well for myself considering my start in life. Mr. Obama would have been supportive of my mom aborting me at 17 years old but she was determined to keep her baby and am I sure glad she did. And I might add she is glad also because she has seen her son have a life better than she had. When I look at all the families from India, China, Japan and Muslim nations that come here and sacrifice to see their children have the best I cannot understand why Americans are so lazy? We want and believe we deserve a free handout! Anyone can break free of the cycle if they really want to. If not for themselves they can for their children but it takes self-sacrifice (sadly lacking today) and commitment. It means putting your children's future above all other considerations and if that means you doing with less so they can have more than so be it. That's called "parenting"!

Kevin

I agree with the spirit of most of what your are saying, Kevin.  And Kudos to your mother for taking on the challenge of raising you and your brother on her own; my sister is a single mom, so I  understand how tough that can be.  

I might not agree with some of your opinions about the marginalized citizens in the country, but I respect your right to have and voice that opinion.

Quote from:  pickard
Obama inspired people to vote yesterday.  That's it.

Man; you couldn't be further from the truth! 

Obama did more than just inspire people to vote.  For many people, his successful campaign represents a renewed hope in the promise of America, a promise that many have feared might be an empty one.  America has always stood as The Land Of Opportunity, a land in which anyone, regardless of background or upbringing, can attain all that their talents will allow.  After yesterday, for the first time in my adult life, I actually believe it.

I feel that you are downplaying the incredible significance of yesterday's election.  The nation actually elected a Black man to the highest office in the country!  I'm not ashamed to admit that on several occasions today, as I contemplated the significance of this event, I found myself crying.  Partly out of joy in my renewed faith in the country and what it stands for, and partly out of sadness that my mother and many other family members didn't live to see this day. 

-Eric

Offline Ktrek

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #151 on: November 05, 2008, 10:51:23 PM »
I feel that you are downplaying the incredible significance of yesterday's election.  The nation actually elected a Black man to the highest office in the country!  I'm not ashamed to admit that on several occasions today, as I contemplated the significance of this event, I found myself crying.  Partly out of joy in my renewed faith in the country and what it stands for, and partly out of sadness that my mother and many other family members didn't live to see this day. 

-Eric

Eric,

Why is it that because Obama is "half" black he is now all of a sudden a "black" man? As far as I'm concerned he is as much a white man as a black man. In fact probably more white since his father was never there for him to influence him but his mother was. Now if he was a 100% black I would agree with you but when I look at Obama I do not see a black man and I think many whites who voted for him feel the same. I think it's very sad too that anyone would have voted for him based on color because the office requires experience, which for better or worse he will now have to get "on the job" because he has virtually no other qualifications or enough experience to be president. I think 2012 would have been a more reasonable time for him to become seasoned and I think he has a lot of personal charisma that has led to his election. For me as a Christian I can now see how easy it will be for the anti-Christ to come into power and how he will influence and manipulate the masses. I am not saying Obama is the anti-Christ as I do not in any way believe that. Only using his rise to power and influence as an example of how the world will come under the influence of the man of perdition when he does rise.

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Offline Geekyfanboy

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #152 on: November 05, 2008, 11:11:58 PM »
Wow Kevin I have never been so angry, what you said had to be the most vial thing I have read yet.. Barack Obama is a black man. It's an insult for you to suggest otherwise. As Eric said you are downplaying the incredible significance of yesterday's election. And don't get me started on the whole anti-christ/obama comment you made.


Offline Geekyfanboy

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #153 on: November 05, 2008, 11:13:31 PM »

Man; you couldn't be further from the truth! 

Obama did more than just inspire people to vote.  For many people, his successful campaign represents a renewed hope in the promise of America, a promise that many have feared might be an empty one.  America has always stood as The Land Of Opportunity, a land in which anyone, regardless of background or upbringing, can attain all that their talents will allow.  After yesterday, for the first time in my adult life, I actually believe it.

I feel that you are downplaying the incredible significance of yesterday's election.  The nation actually elected a Black man to the highest office in the country!  I'm not ashamed to admit that on several occasions today, as I contemplated the significance of this event, I found myself crying.  Partly out of joy in my renewed faith in the country and what it stands for, and partly out of sadness that my mother and many other family members didn't live to see this day. 

-Eric

Eric you so eloquently state my exact feelings... thank you.

Offline wraith1701

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #154 on: November 05, 2008, 11:33:30 PM »

Eric,

Why is it that because Obama is "half" black he is now all of a sudden a "black" man?


LOL "All of a sudden"?

Good question. One that is better aimed at the folks who made the rule, i.e., Society as a whole.

You see, In the Bad Old Days, the tiniest bit of "black blood" would make someone black. This was back when being "black" was accepted by society as being a stigma. As hard as it is to believe, folks once thought that people with any African blood in them were somehow inferior to people of European decent. If you truly don't know what I'm talking about, here's a link-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadroon


 
Quote
As far as I'm concerned he is as much a white man as a black man. In fact probably more white since his father was never there for him to influence him but his mother was. Now if he was a 100% black I would agree with you but when I look at Obama I do not see a black man and I think many whites who voted for him feel the same.


Man; there is almost NO ONE in this country who is "100% Black". Society tells me that I'm black, it's on my birth certificate.  But my grandmother on my mother's side was Native American. And there is "white" blood in my family on both my mother and father's side of the family. So you tell me; what makes someone "Black"? Is it being 3/4 African? 7/8ths? In fact, your use of that phrase makes me question whether or not you subscribe to the racist beliefs you implied you had no knowledge of in the earlier quote. (Again, check out the link I posted earlier, or just Google "Quadroon". The word is from an old system of classifying people; you might find it handy  ;)).

Quote
I think it's very sad too that anyone would have voted for him based on color because the office requires experience, which for better or worse he will now have to get "on the job" because he has virtually no other qualifications or enough experience to be president.


Since neither of the candidates had experience being President of the U.S., both would have to learn "on the job". Just like Every single first term president in the history of the country. And as for your implication that people voted on Obama simply because of his perceived race, well, I find that both sad and insulting.

I also find it very telling.

I voted for Obama because of his platform. And the fact that the majority of the country did as well, regardless of his race, is what has me and many others so excited. Despite your attempts to pretend otherwise, we all know that the majority of the world sees Obama as a "black man". The fact that this didn't prevent the majority of the country for voting for the best candidate  fills me with both pride and hope.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 11:37:34 PM by wraith1701 »

Offline Ktrek

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #155 on: November 05, 2008, 11:54:47 PM »
Wow Kevin I have never been so angry, what you said had to be the most vial thing I have read yet.. Barack Obama is a black man. It's an insult for you to suggest otherwise. As Eric said you are downplaying the incredible significance of yesterday's election. And don't get me started on the whole anti-christ/obama comment you made.



Kenny,

I certainly had no intention of making you mad nor do I think what I said was vial. That is your own perception by reading into my comments what you want or think I am saying.

If a person has any black heritage does that make him black? If so then I guess I am black too. I don't look black but I have some black blood in my family. Would I vote for someone because he is black? Absolutley not and nor would I not for him because he was black. As far as I can tell Mr. Obama has done nothing in his career to qualify for the presidency other than inspiring people to believe in him. Now, that's not wrong in itself but I still think he does not have the resume that McCain has. And in saying that I am not a McCain supporter either as I have serious issues with him also but not near as much as with Obama's qualifications. Time will tell how good a president he will be or will we be back peddling like we did when we elected Jimmy Carter? And I was a supporter of Carter too and voted for him but his foreign policy was awful and he proved when it came down to the wire he didn't have the kahunas to be a president.

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Offline Dan M

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #156 on: November 06, 2008, 04:18:17 AM »

Man; you couldn't be further from the truth! 

Obama did more than just inspire people to vote.  For many people, his successful campaign represents a renewed hope in the promise of America, a promise that many have feared might be an empty one.  America has always stood as The Land Of Opportunity, a land in which anyone, regardless of background or upbringing, can attain all that their talents will allow.  After yesterday, for the first time in my adult life, I actually believe it.

I feel that you are downplaying the incredible significance of yesterday's election.  The nation actually elected a Black man to the highest office in the country!  I'm not ashamed to admit that on several occasions today, as I contemplated the significance of this event, I found myself crying.  Partly out of joy in my renewed faith in the country and what it stands for, and partly out of sadness that my mother and many other family members didn't live to see this day. 

-Eric

Eric you so eloquently state my exact feelings... thank you.

I think you overemphasize what his "accomplishment" means to the country. 

The greatness is not in the accomplishment.  It's a great milestone of where we have come as a nation.

I'm not downplaying the significance his election has to the black community and what it says about race in this country.  That's obvious.

However, Obama succeeded because we finally live in a country which would elect a black man president.  He didn't create that environment of racial equality.  He's the beneficiary of decades of struggle and accomplishment.  (And, if he hasn't already, I'm sure he'd say the same thing.)

And, please, don't overlook how many people would've voted for a potted plant rather than the Republican nominee.

Millions of people were motivated to vote on Tuesday by George W. Bush, the endless war in Iraq and the frightening economic conditions brought on, in their view, by eight years of failed Republican leadership.

To ignore that is absurd.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 04:22:35 AM by pickard »

Offline X

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #157 on: November 06, 2008, 04:19:04 AM »
Wow Kevin I have never been so angry, what you said had to be the most vial thing I have read yet.. Barack Obama is a black man. It's an insult for you to suggest otherwise. As Eric said you are downplaying the incredible significance of yesterday's election. And don't get me started on the whole anti-christ/obama comment you made.




Kenny,

I certainly had no intention of making you mad nor do I think what I said was vial. That is your own perception by reading into my comments what you want or think I am saying.

If a person has any black heritage does that make him black? If so then I guess I am black too. I don't look black but I have some black blood in my family. Would I vote for someone because he is black? Absolutley not and nor would I not for him because he was black. As far as I can tell Mr. Obama has done nothing in his career to qualify for the presidency other than inspiring people to believe in him. Now, that's not wrong in itself but I still think he does not have the resume that McCain has. And in saying that I am not a McCain supporter either as I have serious issues with him also but not near as much as with Obama's qualifications. Time will tell how good a president he will be or will we be back peddling like we did when we elected Jimmy Carter? And I was a supporter of Carter too and voted for him but his foreign policy was awful and he proved when it came down to the wire he didn't have the kahunas to be a president.

Kevin



i had this conversation with a friend yesterday and then my father.

In a nut shell several things happen. My friend voted McCain. We're both black. He asked others that voted Obama why they voted Obama because he felt that they didn't vote the positions.

I told him this. "I'm black, but it's not my job to elect a black man. It's my job to elect the best man."

For me that was Obama and him being percieved black is a boon and a curse. I didn't think I'd live to see the day that a minority would be president.

My father was happy because in his words. "Now we are out of excuses. Black people need to know that the same crap about being oppressed isn't going to work anymore."

Little minority children can now dream th big dreams and not be told by friends and family that it's not going to happen in their generation.

To address the issue of race. For a long time in this country, if you had any black in you, you were black. Now in the past few years that has been trending towards hispanic.

My ex wife is mexican, french, and a bunch of other stuff. She's hispanic on her birth certificate. Her mother, being born earlier is legally white because you were either white, black, asian, or Indian in those days.

In the last decade or so, the government has been trying to correct that little error of allowing hispanics to be legally white and now, they added White - Not of hispanic origin and Black - Not of hispanic Origin to the primary birth certificate choices.

Thus where my daughter is more black than any of the other things she got from both sides of her parents, she's legally hispanic, the new "dump everyone there" race.

My step son is half black and half white, but black on his birth certificate.

Now after you've just read all of that, you're probably wondering what the point is. The point is that because of when he was born Obama is black. I can ASSURE you that regardless of who raised him, the people that saw him in the time of his growing up saw him as black or what ever term they were using for us at the time.

This wasn't some attempt to claim one part of him and dismiss the other.

Granted some people might have voted because of his race, but I don't think that is confined to one single group.

We all want to live in a moment and the people of my generation have had several moments. The Challenger Accident, Bombing of Oklahoma city, Waco Texas, 9/11, and now this. All of these moments in history I know where I was.

For me, I missed the landing on the moon landing by a few years. Given the list that I named, I think it's about time my generation get a moment that I can see a positive. The moment when that glass ceiling in regards to race shattered.

I didn't think I'd live to see the day. I thought we'd have to get there in long slow steps. Senate president, VP, and all those other little steps to get there.

America made me proud on Nov 4, not because we got there. I knew that we would get there at some point. It was because we got there in my generation.

Offline Rico

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #158 on: November 06, 2008, 04:38:05 AM »
Ok, folks the "fun" is over.  I don't see anything to be gained by keeping this thread open any longer.  I frankly never wanted a thread here related to politics.  I won't discuss this topic or religion on the internet - or in real life most of time.  The election is over and I think anyone that wanted to make their opinions known has done so.  Now lets move on.

 




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