The future of console gaming

[Jobydrone]

I think that most people don't care about DRM. If the game works, then they won't have a problem. If parents can get by with only having to buy one copy for multiple devices, they will see that as a win.

the problem with your theory is that if you polled 100 parents who buy an Xbox for their family, maybe 5% of them have more than one of them, and probably fewer buy multiple titles of the same game for their families.  Also probably fewer than five percent of them are going to even know about or understand the family sharing feature of the console when it launches.  But by the same token, many families that are on a budget will likely be upset when they realize they might not be able to save money by trading games in their kids are done with to help fund new ones, or rent games at Redbox on a rainy day.

[X]

Where exactly are you pulling your numbers from? I can assure you one two really important things. 1) People on a budget are not going to be jumping to buy either system any time soon in any numbers. 2)While you might trade in your games, and you still can but it's up to the 3 party developer if they are going to charge fees, most people are not in the habit of trading in their games.

You are accurate that they won't be able to rent from rental places, but that's only one accurate things out of the bunch. Both systems will allow for trade of first party titles. Both systems will leave it to the publishers if they want to charge fees for 3rd party games.

Also, parents aren't that ignorant and just sit a toy in the front of their kids and not know a little about it. The friends and family perks will save money. The DRM features has already kept the games from rising in cost.

[Jobydrone]

I am pulling my numbers from the same place I pull the majority of information that influences my world view.  That place where the sun rarely shines. You can agree or disagree and it makes no difference whatsoever. I find it very difficult to believe that you really think the average consumer buys a separate Xbox for each member of their household (or even more than one) and more than one copy of games for the system.  I find it very interesting that you are assuring me of things that aren't even decided yet for systems that haven't yet been released. All these policies are in flux and I highly anticipate Microsoft to make changes to their restrictions based on the highly charged reaction people have been having to their announcements.

Edit to add:  also the long lines at the register every time I'm in a GameStop, the huge walls of preowned games in every store, the billions of dollars that company (and Walmart, Target, Best buy, etc) makes on the used games market, tells me you're incorrect about people's habits when it comes to trading in their used games.

[X]

I am pulling my numbers from the same place I pull the majority of information that influences my world view.  That place where the sun rarely shines. You can agree or disagree and it makes no difference whatsoever. I find it very difficult to believe that you really think the average consumer buys a separate Xbox for each member of their household (or even more than one) and more than one copy of games for the system.  I find it very interesting that you are assuring me of things that aren't even decided yet for systems that haven't yet been released. All these policies are in flux and I highly anticipate Microsoft to make changes to their restrictions based on the highly charged reaction people have been having to their announcements.

Edit to add:  also the long lines at the register every time I'm in a GameStop, the huge walls of preowned games in every store, the billions of dollars that company (and Walmart, Target, Best buy, etc) makes on the used games market, tells me you're incorrect about people's habits when it comes to trading in their used games.

Where did I say that the average consumer buys an Xbox for each member of their household? I said that many households have multiple Xboxes. That's a huge difference.

As for what I assured you of, the first point was common sense and has nothing to do with the pending release of any system and the second is based on simple mathematics. If a store sold over 100 copies of a game and you see less than 10 for sale used, that a small percentage of people trading in game. Also, the same people that trade said games often buy used games. From my kid's perspective, it's the same small group that does a majority of the trade ins. in his retail experience, they aren't a big chunk of the market.

edit:
My kid works at a Game Stop in a college town

[Jobydrone]

Well you can believe what you want to believe, and ill believe what I want to believe. Personally I think you must be living on a different planet if you truly believe that the used games market is just a small percentage of total gamers.  Regardless, Microsoft either agrees with you and has decided that they can do without the people that decide their policies are too draconian for their tastes, or perhaps they believe that people will learn to adjust to the changes they're proposing for the marketplace. I think it's a tactical mistake on their part to anger even a small percent of their customers, and it's possible that you and they are misjudging the number of people that feel strongly about the issues.

[ChrisMC]

Holy Cow, the used games in my 2 local Gamestops take up most of their store. They are doing a bumper crop business selling used games, they make a crazy markup on those.

[Jobydrone]

Holy Cow, the used games in my 2 local Gamestops take up most of their store. They are doing a bumper crop business selling used games, they make a crazy markup on those.

yeah and I don't necessarily disagree with a model that gives some of those massive profits to the developers and publishers. I've always felt that the used games market was a predatory model that targets low income people.  But if I can get 60-75% off a new game by taking two or three dusty games I'm done with back to the store, I'll often do that rather than pay full price.  I'd hate to see that option go away.

[X]

Holy Cow, the used games in my 2 local Gamestops take up most of their store. They are doing a bumper crop business selling used games, they make a crazy markup on those.

yeah and I don't necessarily disagree with a model that gives some of those massive profits to the developers and publishers. I've always felt that the used games market was a predatory model that targets low income people.  But if I can get 60-75% off a new game by taking two or three dusty games I'm done with back to the store, I'll often do that rather than pay full price.  I'd hate to see that option go away.

I agree with everything you said. I too would bring a pile of games in every so often and get a couple hundred for four games. It took me a while to realize how much I was being shafted and I stopped. That being said, as of today, there has been nothing to say that we can't still trade in games. As it stands, all we know for sure is that we can trade first party titles from both systems and nothing is known about the 3rd party stuff yet. I'm not suggesting that we shaft the people that live off the second hand market, but I like same day digital releases and the DRM isn't going to affect me. Sure, that's not the case for everyone, but I also know that there is also a HUGE burned game market that will be effectively killed by DRM. I'm hoping that this will result in the prices not rising for the XB1 in third party titles.

[Jobydrone]

Powerful reactions from active duty members of the armed forces on the XBone restrictive DRM and online functionality:

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030

"New Xbox 'a sin against all service members'"

Navy Lt. Scott Metcalf was eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new Xbox One. Now he's not even sure if he'll buy one.

Indeed, for many in the military, the next-gen Xbox console may offer more endemic frustration than grand epic gaming, particularly for those deployed downrange, aboard ships and stationed overseas.

Xbox One, Microsoft's much-anticipated new console, got its big reveal at the Electronic Entertainment Expo gamers' convention in Los Angeles. Company honchos are confident it will come to dominate living rooms over the next decade not only as the gaming delivery vehicle of choice, but also with a barrage of other content, including a suite of apps, streaming video and music.

There's one big but, however: To get all this entertainment awesomeness, the console will have to check in online with the Microsoft mothership at least once a day.

"With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection," an Xbox spokesperson tell Military Times.

Showstoppers
Metcalf called that a "showstopper" for any service members who rely on their Xbox for off-duty diversions downrange, in the field, or at sea.

Which is to say, just about everyone.

And it gets worse for on-the-go troops. The Xbox One:

■ Can play only in Xbox One-friendly countries. Even if you're lucky enough to have a regular, reliable Internet connection while overseas, you'll have to be in one of 21 countries included in Microsoft's server network. So, if you're stationed in, say, Germany, Italy or Great Briatin, you're good to go. But if you're based in Japan, Kuwait or Afghanistan, you're out of luck.

■ Will have region-locked games. Games bought in the U.S. can be activated only in the U.S. That means no more ripping open the latest title that just arrived in a care package from home while you're deployed. And forget about buying games locally when overseas — if your Xbox Live account isn't tied to the region when you activate a game, it won't play.

■ Serious security concerns. Even when the Xbox One is in sleep mode, its built-in microphone can always listen in. It's a feature developers say will provide quick voice-command access to games and apps — but that could spook commanders who might worry the always-connected device could also capture more than just idle chit-chat among troops.

"Microsoft has single handedly alienated the entire military. And not just the U.S. military — the militaries of the entire world," says naval aviator Jay Johnson.

The Internet connection requirement is "the single greatest sin Microsoft has committed against all service members," he writes in a post on the game developers' site Gamasutra.

With tours aboard three Nimitz-class aircraft carriers, Johnson says he's spent more than half of the past three years deployed or training at sea. He describes gaming in general and his Xbox in particular as "my sanctuary. It is where I went to calm down after a long day of flying."

But that won't be true with the Xbox One, he says.

"No longer will the sounds of Master Chief saving the human race echo through the hallowed halls of the USS Abraham Lincoln, or any other USS ship, when we have a few hours respite. No longer will you see Marcus and Dom sawing through the Locust Horde at the bases in Afghanistan after the Marines have returned from patrol and want to escape their reality for a bit. Those days are now firmly behind us."

Microsoft: Sucks to be you
Not to fear, says Xbox exec Don Mattrick, president of the Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment division. The company has a solution for those in the military: Just use the old Xbox 360 instead.

"Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called Xbox 360. If you have zero access to the Internet, that is an offline device," Mattrick told Game Trailer at E3 in an interview posted online.

He says he feels your pain, though.

"When I read the blogs and thought about who's really the most impacted, there was a person who said, "Hey, I'm on a nuclear sub.' I don't even know what it means to be on a nuclear sub, but I've got to imagine that it's not easy to get an Internet connection. Hey, I can empathize. If I was on a sub, I'd be disappointed."

OFFduty asked Microsoft officials if that empathy might translate into practical workarounds for the military.

"I don't have additional details to share and can't speculate on workarounds at this time," wrote Xbox rep Danica Stickel in an emailed response to questions, repeating the suggestion that troops could just use the 360 instead.

"Although we're very excited about Xbox One, we remain dedicated to Xbox 360 now and for years to come. In fact, we are expecting some of the greatest blockbusters of 2013 and 2014 to come out on Xbox 360."

She did offer some encouragement for Xbox One hopefuls, however, saying the regional lock restrictions aren't much different from other content protections.

"Similar to the movie and music industry, games and other content must meet country-specific regulatory guidelines before they are cleared for sale — which means that games will work in the broad geographic regions for which they have been cleared, much as today with Xbox 360," Stickel wrote.

"While the console itself is not geographically restricted, a user's Xbox Live account, content, apps and experiences are all tied to the country of billing and residence," she wrote.

"Military personnel will be able to take their Xbox One and play their games with them without an issue as long as the game has been 'activated' once in the U.S. Your games go with you and play, no issues," she says.

Stickel also downplayed security concerns over the console's always-on microphone or built-in Kinect video camera.

"When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded," she says. "You will determine how responsive and personalized your Xbox One is to you and your family during setup. The system will navigate you through key privacy options."

But even those outside the military have been surprised by Micosoft's shrug to the military community, with some speculating it will fuel a wider surge toward Sony's Playstation console.

"This is shameful, says Joel Hruska, a writer for Extreme Tech website. "Telling troops that you 'empathize' with them is both embarrassing and hands Sony perfect ammunition."

"Do I think Microsoft is going to change?" writes Hruska in a recent post. "Honestly, no. The remarks that've come out to date paint a picture of a company that's so drunk on its own Kool-Aid, they aren't listening to outside criticism or commentary any longer."

[KingIsaacLinksr]

I'm sure Microsoft believes they are in the minority as much as the people that live outside of the 21 countries. (Hint: they aren't a minority. Some of the countries not included in the Xbox One deal have some of the largest gaming populations in the world). The suggestion of the Xbox 360 is absurd. At that point, you might as well build your own PC or buy the PS4 if you want even remotely modern graphics. Watching someone play FarCry 3 on a Xbox 360 was painful compared to a PC-version. It lagged through the opening cinema. The hardware is old. People want to replace it but to suggest going to the Xbox 360 just so you can keep the DRM? Yeah, that's not a winning business move.

[Jobydrone]

Well I thought it was an interesting perspective coming from a non gaming oriented website. People from all walks of life are concerned.

[billybob476]

It certainly is, I also didn't realize they had region-locked activation. The more I hear about it the more I'm being pushed to PS4, Sony may not be innovating a new model but sometimes the one you've got is the one that works.

[X]

As sad as it is to hear, and coming from a military family, I'm sorry that the One isn't going to work for them, but I'm also not going to get upset if they don't change their vision of what the One is. I also think that a huge portion of the problem is people spinning the facts so that they can find something to rage about. It really doesn't take much to activate a system before you ship it to your loved one overseas. When you are adding stuff to the care package, you tend to rebox things or add things to existing boxes.

I think that 90% of this rage is really funny because it's rage based on guesses on other people's guesses. Instead of getting upset, how about not buying the product sight unseen and wait until someone you know has gotten their hands on it? or at the very least, how about waiting until all the facts are in?

I think that it's in the nature of too many people to take offense where none is given and to  play the victim when no crime is committed.

The One is their vision of what the future of home entertainment will look like. Not every is going to agree with it, but it's not an attack on the people that don't agree. We spend far too much time in this country making demands and then getting upset when every one of our demands aren't met.

At the end of the day, people are going to buy either system because they want to. Neither company is forcing them to buy or not buy their product. It's really simple. If you don't want what the One offers, don't buy it. It's like getting mad that off road truck you bought isn't going to ever be used for off roading, but you're pissed that it isn't amphibious.

A boat requires water to function optimally with the designer's vision. A car requires ground. The One requires internet. It's that simple. Don't buy a boat if you're never going to take it into the water.

[Bryancd]

As sad as it is to hear, and coming from a military family, I'm sorry that the One isn't going to work for them, but I'm also not going to get upset if they don't change their vision of what the One is. I also think that a huge portion of the problem is people spinning the facts so that they can find something to rage about. It really doesn't take much to activate a system before you ship it to your loved one overseas. When you are adding stuff to the care package, you tend to rebox things or add things to existing boxes.

I think that 90% of this rage is really funny because it's rage based on guesses on other people's guesses. Instead of getting upset, how about not buying the product sight unseen and wait until someone you know has gotten their hands on it? or at the very least, how about waiting until all the facts are in?

I think that it's in the nature of too many people to take offense where none is given and to  play the victim when no crime is committed.

The One is their vision of what the future of home entertainment will look like. Not every is going to agree with it, but it's not an attack on the people that don't agree. We spend far too much time in this country making demands and then getting upset when every one of our demands aren't met.

At the end of the day, people are going to buy either system because they want to. Neither company is forcing them to buy or not buy their product. It's really simple. If you don't want what the One offers, don't buy it. It's like getting mad that off road truck you bought isn't going to ever be used for off roading, but you're pissed that it isn't amphibious.

A boat requires water to function optimally with the designer's vision. A car requires ground. The One requires internet. It's that simple. Don't buy a boat if you're never going to take it into the water.

Well said.

[billybob476]

The concern is that they are adding restrictions where there weren't restrictions before. Say I own a car, it can drive on any road I choose to drive it on. Now I buy a new car and it can only be driven on 6 lane highways, that's an issue for me.

I'm not saying this is a major issue for me, my connection is reliable, I just don't like this drastic change in model.