Windows 8

[Rico]

I don't agree these comments are just to stir the pot.  These are leaders and big names in the gaming community and don't generally "stir the pot."  Also, you can't really compare to what Apple and MS is now trying to do with Win 8.  There is a key difference.  The Windows world has evolved to the point where we just don't need an "MS App store" for the PC.  Steam is the best example.  You can pick up games easily and inexpensively already - including an easy path for Indie folks.  One last thing to consider.  The MS/PC market has two very large groups that drive much of it - business and the hard core PC/gaming community.  I see neither of these groups moving to Win 8 anytime soon.  And that is becoming quite obvious.

[Dangelus]

I don't agree these comments are just to stir the pot.  These are leaders and big names in the gaming community and don't generally "stir the pot."  Also, you can't really compare to what Apple and MS is now trying to do with Win 8.  There is a key difference.  The Windows world has evolved to the point where we just don't need an "MS App store" for the PC.  Steam is the best example.  You can pick up games easily and inexpensively already - including an easy path for Indie folks.  One last thing to consider.  The MS/PC market has two very large groups that drive much of it - business and the hard core PC/gaming community.  I see neither of these groups moving to Win 8 anytime soon.  And that is becoming quite obvious.

There's nothing stopping them supporting Windows 8 and you can bet that if it takes off their apps will support it. It's just business sense.

In terms of needing an app store, true, it's not a necessity but never was the Mac app store. What it does do it give a much higher profile to developers without too much effort on their part. A centralised repository of software makes it easier for people to search for the app they need instead of trawling the Internet and using Google. It also gives the consumer confidence that the software they are installing isn't some sort of malware as opposed to an app they might find on somebody's website. It has worked for Apple for a few years and has worked for many many years in the Linux community, which has always had software repositories.

I think this issue is totally separate from the aesthetic, GUI and other decisions Microsoft have made about Windows 8.

What we don't want is what Apple is trying to do with the Mac and create a "sandbox" ecosystem like iOS that will restrict software being installed independently from the official respective app store. In my opinion this is the wrong model for the PC. It's starting in OS X and there are certain sandbox limitations to Metro apps in Windows 8. As long as we don't get to the point where "unofficial" apps can't be installed then we have the best of both worlds.

[Rico]

There are plenty of solid places to download software.  Gamers know this - businesses know this.  This isn't 1994 anymore.  Why should companies that have already setup distribution methods switch over to MS and give them a piece of the action?  It's just another middle man to be paid.  Also, if you think that MS is going to keep their OS "open" in the future I think you might want to think about that again.  My biggest beef about the whole thing is we already have an Apple company of hardware and software doing all this.  I don't need or want another one.

[Dangelus]

There are plenty of solid places to download software.  Gamers know this - businesses know this.  This isn't 1994 anymore.  Why should companies that have already setup distribution methods switch over to MS and give them a piece of the action?  It's just another middle man to be paid.  Also, if you think that MS is going to keep their OS "open" in the future I think you might want to think about that again.  My biggest beef about the whole thing is we already have an Apple company of hardware and software doing all this.  I don't need or want another one.

The only reason to do it is the same reason they do it with Apple and that is exposure. Solo developers and small indie companies benefit from the free advertising, easy discoverability and user reviews these "app stores" provide them. Of course the trade off is a 30% cut or go it alone (for now).

I'm in total agreement with you that the sandbox ecosystem is wrong for PCs and I seriously hope we don't end up there.

[X]

I think this is funny to me. There is a ton of hate about Windows 8 and none of it has to do with the actual OS by people that have actually used it. Those  that are gripping about the UI are those that haven't even taken the time to download the free version and test it for themselves. Software developers aren't even taking swipes at the UI. Less than a hand full of people are talking about the Metro Store and how they are going to run it. Zero information has been given at how it will be run and there is a 100% chance that you can download the stuff you want from outside the Metro Store. All you have to do is install the OS and check it out.

Here is the problem I see. People want a stable OS and stable programs to run on that OS. The Metro Store is a way for programs to be vetted as something that will be stable on the OS. MS gets a piece of the pie, but it's also their people that will be testing and certifying the software. You will still be able to get other stuff in the wilds.

Those plenty of solid places to download software will still be there, but for those people that like using the magic box and not knowing anything on how it works, the Metro Store will benefit them.

There is no way in hell that Windows will become a closed system. It's not going to happen. MS knows that the openness of the system is what has driven it to be the dominant OS. They are not dumb and won't shoot themselves in the foot just because it's a new release.

This is yet another case of people as a whole being afraid of change and listening to hearsay rather than looking into the fact of the matter.

If something was that broken about the system wouldn't you expect more people coming out? How many have we seen? Is that even a thousandth of a percentage of the development community?

So the guys that back Steam are pissed ... umm, aren't people already pissed at Steam for their business model? Could they be trying to deflect from the critiques of their own venture?

At the end of the day, I'm enjoying the changes and when I am getting something for me, that's how I measure if it is a success.

We can say that business won't adapt, but I don't buy that at all. The cost benefits of adaptation are what's going to sell the product and a $40 upgrade isn't something that people are just going to look away from.

XP is dead. Support has stopped. 200 bucks to rush to a 7 upgrade or 40 for 8. It's not a hard decision and I'm sure that MS is working hand and hand with their business partners around the world to promote and push 8 into the world successfully.

[Bryancd]

They are not dumb and won't shoot themselves in the foot just because it's a new release.

As long as Steve Balmer is in charge I would argue that....

[Dangelus]

Well Metro apps are going to be sandboxed to some extent, we know that much.

Microsoft are discouraging the development of Windows 8 desktop apps. Visual Studio Express isn't going to support W8 desktop app building.

I wouldn't rule anything out for the future.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

There are plenty of solid places to download software.  Gamers know this - businesses know this.  This isn't 1994 anymore.  Why should companies that have already setup distribution methods switch over to MS and give them a piece of the action?  It's just another middle man to be paid.  Also, if you think that MS is going to keep their OS "open" in the future I think you might want to think about that again.  My biggest beef about the whole thing is we already have an Apple company of hardware and software doing all this.  I don't need or want another one.

The only reason to do it is the same reason they do it with Apple and that is exposure. Solo developers and small indie companies benefit from the free advertising, easy discoverability and user reviews these "app stores" provide them. Of course the trade off is a 30% cut or go it alone (for now).

This is currently being questioned right now, a lot of indie devs feel like they don't get much of a chance unless they are either featured on the front page of the app store or somehow make it to the top 10 list of their category, as far as the iOS store goes. And I don't blame them, wading through all the apps is a time-consuming chore that I've given up on. Realistically, unless the app goes viral, indie devs don't have much of a chance on iOS of getting spotted by myself. The Mac App Store also is starting to get too restrictive and app devs are starting to pull their products from the store in order to give customers a better product for their money. Plus, I'm getting fed up with many of the business practices on iOS. So it isn't all happy rainbows and sunshine in Apple's territory, but that's a discussion for another thread.

@X, for now the App Store is optional. But as we've seen with Apple, they have been restricting the OS and we have no way to be certain Microsoft won't do the same. Heck, we are already seeing restrictive tendencies with the Windows 8 tablet. How long until the desktop is next? But granted, granted, they could just as easily leave it open. Time will tell.

Also, will MS actually test each metro app? We're starting to question whether Apple actually does with iOS and Mac OSX, as we've seen far too many apps get into the store that should never have gotten in there, but they have just the same. And Apple has a "smaller" development base in comparison to Windows.

Also, not sure which "guys who back Steam" your referring to. Both Notch and Blizzard are not on the Steam store for their various reasons. Notch is concerned with Steam's dominance as well, as are quite a number of other people, but so far Valve hasn't done anything truly concerning. Yet we are watching them. Blizzard isn't on Steam because they just don't want Valve getting a piece of the pie and I can understand that, Blizzard doesn't need Steam anyway.

As far as MS shooting themselves in the foot...let's see, Windows ME, Windows Vista, and Zune. Just to name a few bad decisions MS has made among many. Yes, they will make a mistake and push it all the way. Just like Apple has done in the past among many other tech companies. Let's not kid ourselves here, they are fallible.

[X]

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As far as MS shooting themselves in the foot...let's see, Windows ME, Windows Vista, and Zune. Just to name a few bad decisions MS has made among many. Yes, they will make a mistake and push it all the way. Just like Apple has done in the past among many other tech companies. Let's not kid ourselves here, they are fallible.

I have a Zune. It's a great piece of tech. The problem wasn't the tech, it was Apple's dominance in the market. The Zune I bought 4 years ago came standard with HD Radio, Web, and wireless syncing. It still is quality tech, but they got beat by Apple. The product itself wasn't a bad product. The UI was easy to use. As for ME, I can agree to some extent, but when it comes to Vista, it's the John Carter of OSes. There were some initial issues out of the gate, but it was a solid product after that was corrected, but bad blood had already soured the name. I used Vista for years with no issues.

As for guys that back Steam, I meant Valve.

[Dangelus]

Things like this aren't going to help. Microsoft have never been great at marketing and now there seems to be an issue with using the term "Metro" and they are going to replace the term.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/2/3215039/microsoft-metro-name-dispute-developers

[Rico]

I don't care if they rename it the "Rico Interface" - I'm still not buying it.  :)

[billybob476]

Honestly, I havent tried it much. One of the QA testers here set up Winodws 8 on a VM here at work and played with it a bit. I wasn't too put off by the whole thing, but then I didn't actually use it myself.

I'll wait and see how things turn out. It also looks like upgrades are only going to be 40 bucks.

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/02/upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx

[WillEagle]

I will be selling this at work as I do the Win 7 product so even though I don't think I need to upgrade my system, especially since I just got my laptop, I hope lots of folks want it. If you buy a desktop or laptop now till Jan. you can get the upgrade for $15 bucks. The rebate prints automatically when you buy a computer from our store, so its really easy to get the rebate.

[X]

I will be selling this at work as I do the Win 7 product so even though I don't think I need to upgrade my system, especially since I just got my laptop, I hope lots of folks want it. If you buy a desktop or laptop now till Jan. you can get the upgrade for $15 bucks. The rebate prints automatically when you buy a computer from our store, so its really easy to get the rebate.

hey will, check again with your system. It should be free after the rebate.

[WillEagle]

Yes, thats what I meant. It will be free after rebate. Thank you. I should have worded that a little better. We are setting up a laptop in the back and we are going to have the Win 8 on it so we can all try it out and be familiar with it when it comes out.