Superman Reboot (Man of Steel)

[ChrisMC]

Right on. I'm bad at going backwards.

[Bryancd]

Try and keep up. :)

[Dangelus]

I get what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing with you. I guess people have their own idea of who Superman is and it doesn't always match up to canon.

Well, I would agree, but [spoiler]Having tried to wrangle my kids when they are being surly in public and move them somewhere out of the way, it doesn't always work out with out some destruction. And Zod is a superpowered guy who's just lost his genetically programmed purpose and was throwing a big-ass tantrum. He was going to kill and kill. And people bitching about Supes killing Zod 'being un-Supermanlike' gloss over SM2 when he let all 3 of the Phantom Zone criminals fall to a bloody death, hell he laughed when Lois punched Ursa to her death. In this one, he was completely AGONIZED about killing Zod and the last vestige of his race.[/spoiler]

Yeah, and i don't take exception witrh that perception, I like my Superman pure and above al the ugliness. It just seems to be an over reaction likely driven by the fact that 24 years since Superman 2 people can hop on the internet and have thei fanboy rage read.

[spoiler]I'm with you Bryan.. don't understand why folks are flipping out over this death, like he's never killed before.. I'm more dismayed at all the people he helped kill while battling Zod in the middle of Metropolis. How many buildings did they demolish?  I feel like Superman would have tried to get Zod away from the already decimated area[/spoiler]

Well, I would agree, but [spoiler]Having tried to wrangle my kids when they are being surly in public and move them somewhere out of the way, it doesn't always work out with out some destruction. And Zod is a superpowered guy who's just lost his genetically programmed purpose and was throwing a big-ass tantrum. He was going to kill and kill. And people bitching about Supes killing Zod 'being un-Supermanlike' gloss over SM2 when he let all 3 of the Phantom Zone criminals fall to a bloody death, hell he laughed when Lois punched Ursa to her death. In this one, he was completely AGONIZED about killing Zod and the last vestige of his race.[/spoiler]

Dude, I have been saying that for the last 2 pages. :)

I feel I need to repeat [spoiler] that it wasn't filmed that way. The scene where Zod is arrested in Superman 2 was cut. I doubt that they even thought about it seeming they died and Superman and Lois certainly didn't act like they were killing them, hence the laughing. I'm not denying that it doesn't explain their fate in the released version but the argument of whether Superman kills or not needs a stronger example.[/spoiler]

[ChrisMC]

Well, what's on film is canon, deleted scenes and alternate takes don't count. And is SM2, I would argue that the intent is to show that the villains are dead and gone.

[Bryancd]

As a 12 year old in the theater, there was no ambiguity. They were killed and the hero's were celbrating. And apparently Zod is also killed in the comics. So we have film and comic canon in agreement on this.

[Dangelus]

Ah heck just tell them its a parallel universe / reboot so this Superman can do what the hell he likes! ;)

[Rico]

I've seen Superman II many, many times.  From my point of view, I still was unsure if Zod and the rest were dead or not.  So,...

[spoiler]Again, seeing Superman snap the neck of Zod in the new film is very in your face and different so I can understand some of the fans not liking this.[/spoiler]

Watch this clip from the Justice League (funny thing is this action in the clip does start a parallel Earth in a way).  I think some interesting stuff related to this discussion.  By the way this series is on Netflix and is well worth watching.  This is from season two.

Superman kills Lex Luthor

[Bryancd]

Here is another bit of confusion for me. The Phantom Zone. In Supermkan 1 and 2, it was that pane of glass that gobbles them up and spins off into the cosmos. Seeing their faces in glass pleading to be forgiven and set free I though was VERY spooky and effective and I understood this was a very bad place to be stuck. So now in this film...

[spoiler]They are frozen into a Giger'esque rocket penis and launched into a ship that later we discover is fully armed and capable, and sent through a sperm Stargate? Did I get that right? Hwere did they actually go. To qoute Dr. McCoy, what if they went no where? Seemed like they got a sweet deal as they are released as soon as Krypton implodes and they are fine...and have a sweet ship![/spoiler]

[Bryancd]

One other question regarding the Fortress of Solitude...

[spoiler]Or in this case the 20,000 year old ship. How would it be possible for a El family suit be in the ship ready for Kal-el?[/spoiler]

[Dangelus]

'It's a reboot they can do what they like."

This is what you all tell me when I criticise Star Trek.

[Bryancd]

'It's a reboot they can do what they like."

This is what you all tell me when I criticise Star Trek.

I feel STAR TREK is absolutley a reboot in terms of how I consume the new stuff. This film I had no real dog in the fight, so reboot or slavish recreation didn't matter to me as I am not very invested in the source material like I am with Trek.

[Geekyfanboy]

One other question regarding the Fortress of Solitude...

[spoiler]Or in this case the 20,000 year old ship. How would it be possible for a El family suit be in the ship ready for Kal-el?[/spoiler]

Good point.. I never questioned that.

[spoiler]Maybe when Jor El was downloaded to the ship a schismatic of the suit was also download and the ship created it.. I wouldn't put it past their level of technology. [/spoiler]

[Dangelus]

'It's a reboot they can do what they like."

This is what you all tell me when I criticise Star Trek.

I feel STAR TREK is absolutley a reboot in terms of how I consume the new stuff. This film I had no real dog in the fight, so reboot or slavish recreation didn't matter to me as I am not very invested in the source material like I am with Trek.

Exactly. Its double standards. Because this isn't one of your precious franchises you find it acceptable to question creative decisions but shoot down or dismiss others who do the same to other properties. I'm not trying to be offensive here but that's how it's coming across a bit.

[Bryancd]

'It's a reboot they can do what they like."

This is what you all tell me when I criticise Star Trek.

I feel STAR TREK is absolutley a reboot in terms of how I consume the new stuff. This film I had no real dog in the fight, so reboot or slavish recreation didn't matter to me as I am not very invested in the source material like I am with Trek.

Exactly. Its double standards. Because this isn't one of your precious franchises you find it acceptable to question creative decisions but shoot down or dismiss others who do the same to other properties. I'm not trying to be offensive here but that's how it's coming across a bit.

For sure, but that in and of itself is the very definition of fandom. I have no problem with people not liking the new STAR TREK films, but I will debate with greater vigor those criticisms more then I will for a franchise like Superman. My review was postive but I had some issues. Same with Into Darkness, I felt the whole Admiral Marcus part was ill conceiveds and executed and Khan was too under utilized.

[Dangelus]

Here is another bit of confusion for me. The Phantom Zone. In Supermkan 1 and 2, it was that pane of glass that gobbles them up and spins off into the cosmos. Seeing their faces in glass pleading to be forgiven and set free I though was VERY spooky and effective and I understood this was a very bad place to be stuck. So now in this film...

[spoiler]They are frozen into a Giger'esque rocket penis and launched into a ship that later we discover is fully armed and capable, and sent through a sperm Stargate? Did I get that right? Hwere did they actually go. To qoute Dr. McCoy, what if they went no where? Seemed like they got a sweet deal as they are released as soon as Krypton implodes and they are fine...and have a sweet ship![/spoiler]

In the Supergirl movie the Phantom Zone is an actual place and that is set in the same continuity as the Superman movies.