Star Trek: First Contact.

alanp · December 15, 2009, 11:14:44 AM

Pardon me, It was designed to be a short lived show. I found a lot of it campy. Maybe campy isn't the word I'm looking for. Defiantly hokey, at times.

Rico · December 15, 2009, 11:24:18 AM

Quote from: AlanP on December 15, 2009, 11:14:44 AM
Pardon me, It was designed to be a short lived show. I found a lot of it campy. Maybe campy isn't the word I'm looking for. Defiantly hokey, at times.

I am perfectly fine with anyone having a personal opinion about the show. However, it was never designed to be campy. Many well respected science fiction authors worked on this series. It was frankly one of the most serious science fiction shows up until that time in history. This isn't just my view, but many others have studied this. As far as your 'short-lived' comment - that is relative. In the 1960's there was no video tape, no cable, no DVD's or blu-ray, no syndication. TV shows aired until they weren't doing well in the ratings and then were gone. That has nothing to do with how the show is written or designed. Sorry to delve off-topic, but frankly without the original series we wouldn't have gotten TNG, the other series, 'First Contact' or any of the films. It put down the ground work for EVERYTHING that came after it with the name Trek attached.

Bryancd · December 15, 2009, 11:34:48 AM

Indeed, Star Trek was a very serious production for the time and it really stretched what was possible for TV in the late 1960's. It was never "designed" to be anything of the sort and no one knew how long it would air. Calling it campy or hookey really can only be done by looking back at it from a modern perspective. It's certainly NOT an opinion I share.

Rico · December 15, 2009, 11:40:46 AM

Let me just simplify what I was trying to say. Like Bryan also mentioned, the show was designed to be serious science fiction. And in my view if you look at many of the stories, they pull that off very well. One of the reasons I think it's still being watched to this day, over 40 years later. It's perfectly fine if someone finds it silly or campy, but it was never intended to be that way. Now, the third season of "Lost in Space" on the other hand,....

billybob476 · December 15, 2009, 11:41:25 AM

...so someone meant for "Spock's Brain" to be good? :)

Bryancd · December 15, 2009, 11:44:39 AM

Quote from: billybob476 on December 15, 2009, 11:41:25 AM
...so someone meant for "Spock's Brain" to be good? :)

..see Rico's comment above about 3rd season syndrome... :)

Rico · December 15, 2009, 11:46:37 AM

Quote from: billybob476 on December 15, 2009, 11:41:25 AM
...so someone meant for "Spock's Brain" to be good? :)

Actually, yes. But the changed in producers for season three altered the tone of a few of the shows. But again, yes it was played seriously.

P.S. Now we are way off-topic and have hijacked this thread completely. Sorry about that.

Bryancd · December 15, 2009, 11:51:10 AM

So to bring it back OT, Cochran's appearance in TOS was never meant to be anything more than a stand alone episode. This is why I don't let these issue's effect my enjoyment of the show. I could care less if he was portrayed differently in First Contact and has a different back story. Hell, they even changed where he was born! In TOS he was from Alpha Centarie or whatever, not Earth.

alanp · December 15, 2009, 11:51:27 AM

Quote from: Rico on December 15, 2009, 11:24:18 AM
Quote from: AlanP on December 15, 2009, 11:14:44 AM
Pardon me, It was designed to be a short lived show. I found a lot of it campy. Maybe campy isn't the word I'm looking for. Defiantly hokey, at times.

I am perfectly fine with anyone having a personal opinion about the show. However, it was never designed to be campy. Many well respected science fiction authors worked on this series. It was frankly one of the most serious science fiction shows up until that time in history. This isn't just my view, but many others have studied this. As far as your 'short-lived' comment - that is relative. In the 1960's there was no video tape, no cable, no DVD's or blu-ray, no syndication. TV shows aired until they weren't doing well in the ratings and then were gone. That has nothing to do with how the show is written or designed. Sorry to delve off-topic, but frankly without the original series we wouldn't have gotten TNG, the other series, 'First Contact' or any of the films. It put down the ground work for EVERYTHING that came after it with the name Trek attached.

I do agree. The show was written with serious social commentary.

Campy (having just looked it up) wasn't the right word. Sorry about that.

I was just referring to the often silly plots (Spook's brain) and the production values like the planets with styrofoam rocks, animated phasors, etc.

My only point was that it was intended to be a TV show that probably wouldn't see more than 5 years. The writers weren't anticipating 725 episodes and 11 movies. But because it is, we've got to excuse continuity issues as a trade off to keep getting more trek. And that's a trade I'm happy to make as long as the stories are entertaining.

sheldor · December 15, 2009, 12:52:19 PM

Well, are we forgetting about the Temporal Investigation guys?

VaeVictis1701 · December 15, 2009, 01:00:59 PM

Quote from: Rico on December 15, 2009, 11:24:18 AM
Sorry to delve off-topic, but frankly without the original series we wouldn't have gotten TNG, the other series, 'First Contact' or any of the films. It put down the ground work for EVERYTHING that came after it with the name Trek attached.

I am going to have to agree with Rico on this one. Without the original we would have never gotten to enjoy the Star Trek Franchise as it stands today.

But to get back on topic, Star Trek has touched base on multiple dimensions in the past. Take for example the Worf episode where he is shifting threw multiple dimensions and comes across one where is the Captain of the Enterprise and married to Diana Troy.

Then there were other episodes where they show how something in the past can change the present where those involved are unaware of the changes. Take for example the episode in TAS where Kirk and Spock go back in time then return to find that no know is aware of who Spock is. In their time line Spock died as a child because he didn't go back in time to save himself.

There was also an episode that shows how time isn't linear. The one where Q comes to warn Picard that they are going to destroy the universe. Threw a series of events Picard has to work with sever different time lines in order to fix the problem.

With this in mind it shows that everyone's theory can be accurate. In one universe Zefram Cochrane could have proceeded with the launch without the aid of the Enterprise-E's crew, in another the Borg did come back in time and the Enterprise-E's crew was need to "repair" their time-line. There also could have been one where the Enterprise-E failed in their mission and the Borg assimilated the entire planet causing the Federation to have never existed.

ChadH · December 16, 2009, 02:41:55 PM

Anyone have an aspirin? I suddenly have a headache. :( I think that I have to agree with JustX's suggested hypothesis of timelines which diverge and reconverge again. For some reason I want the Trek universe to be somewhat consolidated. It feels/seems like the most likely scenerio.
I could be wrong, but wasn't all this timeline divergence stuff explained to Capt. Archer by one of the temporal cold war agents (Ensign Daniels) during one of the earlier episodes of Enterprise?

BTW. Nice thread Quantum Charles. Very interesting.

VaeVictis1701 · December 17, 2009, 06:42:44 AM

Quote from: ChadH on December 16, 2009, 02:41:55 PM
Anyone have an aspirin? I suddenly have a headache. :( I think that I have to agree with JustX's suggested hypothesis of timelines which diverge and reconverge again.

I apologize for any confusion my post may have caused. I was just trying to show how each of the theories were possible in the realm of Star Trek.
In my option, as far as "First Contact" goes, I have to agree with JustX. In the original time line he didn't get help from the Enterprise crew. This is evident in the movie. If it had always been the Enterprise crew that assisted Zefram Cochrane with his warp drive test... then it was already predestined that the Borg didn't complete their mission, in which case the planet would have never changed. But this again is my option. :-)

Quote from: ChadH on December 16, 2009, 02:41:55 PM
BTW. Nice thread Quantum Charles. Very interesting.

I have to agree. This has been a please to read and post in.

AtlantisAngel · July 05, 2010, 02:08:09 PM

I think some of us are forgetting about the ST:ENT episode 'Regeneration' when T'Pol and Archer make reference to Cochrane's speech. I've just started watching that episode...

In regards to the film itself, it's my favourite. I love it. It has everything from humour, drama and tension plus the Borg kick ass so much. I think the Moby Dick reference was a touch of genius with Lily and Picard in the briefing room.Though I don't recommend watching it in the dark...

X · July 05, 2010, 03:57:10 PM

Quote from: AtlantisAngel on July 05, 2010, 02:08:09 PM
I think some of us are forgetting about the ST:ENT episode 'Regeneration' when T'Pol and Archer make reference to Cochrane's speech. I've just started watching that episode...

In regards to the film itself, it's my favourite. I love it. It has everything from humour, drama and tension plus the Borg kick ass so much. I think the Moby Dick reference was a touch of genius with Lily and Picard in the briefing room.Though I don't recommend watching it in the dark...

I don't think anyone is forgetting that part. The part in question was that TOS cochrane didn't mention or hint at anything like his experiences of First Contact when he met the tos crew.