Starfleet careers and age

billybob476 · November 03, 2008, 05:18:43 AM

The talk of the age difference between Kirk and Spock in the movie thread got me to thinking.

Say in the Star Trek universe the human lifespan is extended to an average of 100 years. In comparison to many, many other races, this is still very short. So here's my question:

In Starfleet, the flag ranks contain a lot of humans. Wouldn't it be difficult for humans, as a comparitively short-lived race, to get into the starfleet admiralty?

As an example, say Vulcans live to be 300 and a Vulcan enters Starfleet when they are 20 years old. That means that, barring retirement or early death, a Vulcan can be in Starfleet for 280 years! Say they hit Admiral after 40 years in the fleet. That means they can plug up an admiral slot for 240 years.

If a Vulcan can take up a job for 2 human lifetimes, wouldn't it create a big barrier to entry to shorter lived races? I mean, 200 years of experience isn't something to sneeze at and replace just because Johnny the human wants to be an admiral.

I guess with my wife being in Human Resources, it make me think about the retention and turnover in an organization where career ranges can be abnormally long or short when compared to each other.

I wonder what you other smart people think about this.

Feathers · November 03, 2008, 05:24:33 AM

Hmmm. I hadn't quite....

Oh, you wanted comments from smart people - sorry!

Feathers · November 03, 2008, 05:34:45 AM

For a real answer, there's the fact that in at least a few cases we've seen a tendency in Vulcans to retreat into periods of meditation forming extended detachments from their careers in Starfleet (or elsewhere). Now, I agree that we only really have a couple of examples to go on here - it's embedded in Tuvok's back story for example - but there may be the kernel of an explanation in there.

That won't help us for any other particularly long lived races, however.

Perhaps Vulcans get promoted at a slower rate? (OK, I don't really buy that either)

Bryancd · November 03, 2008, 06:47:36 AM

Maybe there just aren't a lot of Vulcans who pursue careers in StarFleet.

ElfManDan · November 03, 2008, 09:07:03 AM

Maybe there is a larger number of Humans then Vulcans. The population has to be somewhat different, Vulcans only chance of producing offspring being once every seven years.

billybob476 · November 03, 2008, 09:11:27 AM

Well, Vulcan were an example. This could apply to any long-lived species. Based on DS9 we know Klingons live pretty long (Since Kang and his buddy show up). The other extreme is what about shorter-lived species? They'd be at a severe disadvantage.

ElfManDan · November 03, 2008, 09:26:12 AM

Well if we go through species one by one I'm sure we could come up with different reasons for why the Humans out number them all in Starfleet. Like the Klingons as you mentioned, obviously not many have joined Starfleet because most belong to their own Empire. I do this to much, over think these things that don't always make perfect sense. In my own head I have to rationalize things like this that aren't explained in the story, mostly because I like everything in a Universe to be correct. Sometimes I have to stop myself from doing that because it takes away from my enjoyment of the actual story.

Meds · November 03, 2008, 09:26:26 AM

maybe, just maybe my brain might explode with these questions., just don't bring into this conversation the point of time travel interfering with age, oh darn it.........

X · November 03, 2008, 09:29:42 AM

Vulcan can live to be like 200+, but at the same time, they are around double the human age when going out into the world. Spock was a exception and 40 years before enter starfleet gives a lot of others time to get their feet in the door.

Also when you consider the nature of expansion, there is always room for growth and some times the just make you an admiral because their bored.

See Janeway.

Meds · November 03, 2008, 10:23:13 AM

Has anyone thought that Human to Vulcans could be like dog ages? you know my dogs like ten human years but in dog years is in her 60's. Just a thought ;)

ElfManDan · November 03, 2008, 10:29:46 AM

Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on November 03, 2008, 10:23:13 AM
Has anyone thought that Human to Vulcans could be like dog ages? you know my dogs like ten human years but in dog years is in her 60's. Just a thought ;)

Depends on the type of dog though, little dogs live can live up to 20 years, big dogs generally around 12 years, average sized dogs are somewhere in between.

(Son of a veterinarian talking) This is way off topic isn't it?

Meds · November 03, 2008, 10:30:35 AM

Oh yeah way off topic, thats why i threw it in, anarchist that i am ;)

Jen · November 03, 2008, 10:51:34 AM

OK, here's something to consider... Starfleet is a hodgepodge of races. Would it not be plausible that they would have some sort of "affirmative action" policy for species? :)

You couldn't have an entire fleet of Vulcans or humans representing a society made up of many different species when First Contact is made. A blend of species makes more sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

Some other thoughts:

Command isn't for everyone. Just because one has a lot of experience doesn't mean that individual would want to pursue a career as a Captain or Admiral.

Vulcans can live many years, as you said. T'Pol was 60 when she joined the crew of Enterprise, and she was considered young for a Vulcan. Sixteen years before joining the Enterprise crew she was an agent for the Vulcan intelligence service. Spock became an Ambassador. In Titan, a Trek novel, Tuvok went back to being an agent. So maybe Vulcans change jobs several times over their lifetimes and there are fewer Vulcan Admirals because of that.

wraith1701 · November 03, 2008, 08:28:32 PM

In the movie The Undiscovered Country, Azetbur made an interesting comment during the "dinner party" on the Enterprise- "Starfleet is a homo sapiens-only club", or something like that. Maybe there is a little bit of truth in what she says.

We all know that Starfleet is the Exploratory/Military branch of the Federation, but it existed before the creation of the Federation. It began as the space-branch of Earth's military. Before the Federation, it was ALL HUMAN. I'm guessing that as the Federation formed, and Starfleet evolved to serve human and non-human worlds alike, the majority of the members remained human. Even as more and more non-humans entered Starfleet,they remained the minority. I'm guessing that since it's inception, humans have held the highest ranks in Starfleet. I'm also guessing that humans make most of the decisions about who gets promoted, and who doesn't.

Talon Lardner · November 12, 2008, 10:58:56 PM

One of the things I've been thinking of as a solution for this "problem" is that the pace of learning and adaptation may also be linked to metabolism. Slow-metabolism races like Vulcans live longer for sure, but they may also have a slower "drive" to be promoted and to improve as a short-lived race like Humans.