The Good that Men do. Week 1- March 4 - 10: Prologue - Chap. 15

Duffster · March 03, 2008, 06:48:48 AM

Lets start the discussion.

billybob476 · March 03, 2008, 06:53:50 AM

My copy should be arriving today.

wraith1701 · March 04, 2008, 05:00:24 PM

I'm enjoying this book so far. The "story-within-a-story" concept was a smart move-- I can't imagine any other way for the writers to compare the events as we saw them depicted on TV with the way they happened "in real life".

Reading this book drives home just how flimsy some of the elements of the Enterprise finale were. The entire ship invasion and Trip's resulting death seem especially fishy in retrospect. It almost feels as though the writers of the finale intended for us to doubt the veracity of the holodeck program visited by Riker and Deanna. I kinda wonder if the 'death of Trip' plot thread was originally written as an end of season cliff-hanger...

Rico · March 04, 2008, 05:07:03 PM

I'm at about page 70 or so. Enjoying it so far. Think it might help to watch the last few episodes of "Enterprise" prior to reading this book, but not critical.

billybob476 · March 04, 2008, 06:15:58 PM

Still waiing for my copy to arrive...I'll be catching up soon!

Jen · March 05, 2008, 07:17:49 PM

I believe the writers told Rico in his interview with them that Trip's death, in the television show, was not intended to be permanent. But since the show ended... so did Trip. I think you're right—concept was probably intended for a cliff hanger.

I don't know how much we are allowed to discuss yet, but I have to say that I liked the scene in the novel with T'Pol and Trip on Vulcan at their daughter's funeral. I could really feel the pain that they experienced in that moment. And it always bothered me that she turned away from him after Elizabeth's death. I read this novel a while back and drew a lot of inspiration from this book when I created my characters for the RPG.

I agree... I think the novelist did a much better job of bringing those scenes to life and making them make sense. Maybe they just gave up and threw something together because they were disappointed that the show was canceled.

Quote from: wraith1701 on March 04, 2008, 05:00:24 PM
I'm enjoying this book so far. The "story-within-a-story" concept was a smart move-- I can't imagine any other way for the writers to compare the events as we saw them depicted on TV with the way they happened "in real life".

Reading this book drives home just how flimsy some of the elements of the Enterprise finale were. The entire ship invasion and Trip's resulting death seem especially fishy in retrospect. It almost feels as though the writers of the finale intended for us to doubt the veracity of the holodeck program visited by Riker and Deanna. I kinda wonder if the 'death of Trip' plot thread was originally written as an end of season cliff-hanger...

Ktrek · March 05, 2008, 08:58:11 PM

SPOILERS ahead.....this covers things in the overall novel...

I have mixed feelings about this novel. On one hand I hated it and on the other I thought it was a finely written story.

First let me say that I just don't buy into the main plot device of Trips death being a deception. Yea I was as sad as everyone else to see Trip die at the end of the series but what is on screen is CANON! What is written is FICTION. So when fiction supersedes the canon just because they found Trip's death inconvenient or unnecessary does not negate the fact that Trip died. And I'm sorry but I just cannot see Trip posing as a Romulan no matter what prosthetics they give him or voice enhancers. This novel just did not do it for me and is my least favorite of all the Mangels and Martin collaborations thus far. And nothing I have said here is anything that I have not already told Andy Mangels, and Andy's replies have not changed my thinking about it. I really did not like the direction the book chose but the writing and story is fine otherwise!

I apologize if I have spoiled anything because I am not going to re-read this one and I'm not exactly sure where things are revealed.

Kevin :police

Jen · March 06, 2008, 10:34:27 AM

Cannon is twisted all the time Ktrek. It was manipulated BIG time when the Enterprise TV show was created. With regards to 'cannon' I personally don't see the difference between TV shows and novels. If it has Paramounts approval, it's good enough for me.

Quote from: Ktrek on March 05, 2008, 08:58:11 PM
SPOILERS ahead.....this covers things in the overall novel...

I have mixed feelings about this novel. On one hand I hated it and on the other I thought it was a finely written story.

First let me say that I just don't buy into the main plot device of Trips death being a deception. Yea I was as sad as everyone else to see Trip die at the end of the series but what is on screen is CANON! What is written is FICTION. So when fiction supersedes the canon just because they found Trip's death inconvenient or unnecessary does not negate the fact that Trip died. And I'm sorry but I just cannot see Trip posing as a Romulan no matter what prosthetics they give him or voice enhancers. This novel just did not do it for me and is my least favorite of all the Mangels and Martin collaborations thus far. And nothing I have said here is anything that I have not already told Andy Mangels, and Andy's replies have not changed my thinking about it. I really did not like the direction the book chose but the writing and story is fine otherwise!

I apologize if I have spoiled anything because I am not going to re-read this one and I'm not exactly sure where things are revealed.

Kevin :police

wraith1701 · March 06, 2008, 09:57:09 PM

Agreed, Jen. Canon is in the eye of the beholder. Until a new Enterprise TV show or movie comes out to contradict what unfolds in the books, the books are part of my canon.

Re. Trip's working for Section 31 as a Romulan infiltrator: I like it! :thumbsup
In a series that has technology that allows instantaneous translation of different languages, not to mention matter transmission and FTL travel, I don't think it is a stretch to have a human surgically altered to pass for a member of an alien race.

For me, one of the most fascinating periods of Trek history is the time spanning the creation of the United Federation Of Planets and the Romulan War. This book seems to be leading in to that story perfectly. And given the fact that we don't "officially" know what Romulans look like until the TOS episode "Balance Of Terror", I think the authors have created an incredibly effective plot device. They not only bring back a beloved character, they allow us to vicariously meet the Romulans face-to-face for the first time. And considering the ramifications of finding out that such a menacing race is possibly related to a founding race of the fledgling Federation, I think the writers have set up a very plausible explanation of the discrepancies between the "official" record of events and how they occurred in "real life".

As of Chapter 15 of the book, the proposed Coalition Of Planets is on shaky ground. If it had become public knowledge that one of the main members (the Vulcans) were related to the Romulans, the Federation may have never come into existence. Although this hasn't been brought up in the book yet, and possibly won't be addressed, I can see this as being justification for a cover-up. Hence the whole "Trip's Fake Death" and "Shran's Fake Daughter" issue.

Rico · March 07, 2008, 10:44:46 AM

Really getting into the book well now. I think the authors have really captured the characters well as they were at the end of season 4. I find myself missing Enterprise even more as I read the book. I really like Shran too. He would of made a great regular as was rumored for later seasons. Trip has been well worked out too. It seems very plausible that he would make the choices he is making in the book. Still have a few more chapters to go for this week's section (on Ch. 12 right now).

billybob476 · March 09, 2008, 05:56:48 AM

I received my book late so I'm only at the funeral scene. Honestly I was very suprised and pleased at the beginning when the book began with Nog hiking through Louisiana to visit Jake. I love the fact we are reading one of Jake's novels.

I have to agree with Rico, having seen season 4 of Enterprise recently will help a lot with backgorund and some references. T'Pol just lost her emotional control in the funeral chamber. The writing is very poignant and really helps me get into the characters minds.

More to come!

billybob476 · March 10, 2008, 06:54:43 AM

One odd thing I noticed. When the Romulans are talking they refer to units of time in thier language. I've never been comfortable with this. Why would all of thier words be translated into English except for units of time? It just seems random and you have to sit there and figure out if they mean minutes, hours, days, etc.

Rico · March 10, 2008, 08:34:59 AM

Maybe because time is based off of a planet's rotation, etc. Of course, language, time, etc. in Trek have always been kind of Earth based, for the most part.