Our Next President

[Jen]

King, as I said in my post, the second one in this thread, I wouldn't trust most of these people to hold my purse, much less run my country. Simply put, all I can do is look at their records and see if they stuck to their guns or flipped to something else because it was the popular thing to do at the time. Some of them are corrupt and there is a trail to prove that as well. Like I said, for the most part McCain says something and sticks to it even if it isn't popular with his party...Even if I don't agree with everything he says and does, I admire that quality.

As far as immigration is concerned, I agree with you... I don't know how to fix it, but I think they need to start with the policies already in place. They are a real mess. Making a wall won't do Jack Squat and I'll have to look at it as it gets painted with graffiti and wildlife (ex. deer) get hung in it. The international boarder between Mexico and the US is nearly 2,000 miles long. We can not make a fence that long and adequately maintain and patrol it—it's ludicrous, not to mention exceedingly expensive. Monitoring the boarder with cameras and satellites seems smarter. And building up the boarder patrol with man power, equipment and money is more effective than building a dumb wall.

As for the migrant workers,  I have known many. Most are great people, and I don't have a problem with any of them who want to be American citizens. Shoot, I LIVE next door to a family from Mexico. They are kind people who keep to themselves. My father learned to speak fluent Spanish by working side by side with migrant farm workers. In fact, most of my family has worked side by side with them in the peanut and watermelon fields of South Texas... for the same pay I might add. Yes, there are Americans here that will do those jobs too... you might not know them, but they are around. They mend fences, run tractors, work cattle, pick watermelons.... I know them. So the excuse of "Amercians don't want to do that work" does NOT won't work with me. I think if Mexicans want to be Americans, and they are upstanding individuals (not criminals) they should endeavor to become Americans and we should fix the system so they can.

I don't like it when Mexican nationals work here, leave, and get the same rights as American citizens. Health care in Texas is strained by illegals who get treated and go home without paying their bills. These are issues that need to be addressed. And I'm sorry, a fence can't do it.

I just have two questions:

One:  Disregarding Obama or Mcain and what they've said.  What makes you sure that they will stand by what they say?  Lets face it.  Bush certainly failed in his 2nd term to do what he said.  (I still think he did a good job in his first term)  So what makes you sure that any of these candidates will follow through with what they've said thus far?  History within the last 15+ years shows otherwise.  Not just Presidents but Governors and senators etc as well. 


Two: What should we do about Illegal Immigration if a fence is not going to work?  Lets face it, we cannot handle Mexico and the US's population at the same time.  But as far as I can tell, thats what is going to happen in about 10 years.  How can we keep taking people in?  I don't want to be a closed country that won't let anyone in, but we can't keep taking on ppl that suck on US's lifeblood without giving back.  (Yes, lets face it, not all immigrants work/pay taxes.  I sadly know of some.)  So is there an answer? 

King

[Kirk-Fu]

Im a Republican and will be voting for John McCain. The main reasons are as follows:

1.)While we can disagree on the Iraq war, it would be a disaster to just pull out in a set amount of days. Im a veteran myself, and would be sick if the loss of life the Iraqis have suffered and especially OUR courageous military was all in vain. We cant ask the Iraqi people to do in short order, what it's taken America a couple hundred years to do, and we still havent got it perfect.

2.)McCain actually is closer to where I am in ideology. Im really not a conservative, more moderate actually. Im ok with a president that is willing to budge a bit on some things.

3.)Immigration-Im not obsessed with those that are already here...I live in Florida, probably have a lot of friends who are illegal. But, we cant just let the flow continue unchecked. No nation can allow an unregulated swell in its population. Infrastructure will eventually collapse.

The above being said, I really respect Barack Obama and think that despite many idealogical differences, he would likely be a good president and I would support him. I think his heart is in the right place. Hillary on the other hand...no.

[Ktrek]

I would like to apologize for my statement about Evangelist Christian.. that was wrong of me to paint all of them with the same brush. I meant no ill will to anyone who is an EC. But they do tend to be the most vocal against homosexuality.

I don't mean to nitpick here Kenny but I believe you meant "Evangelical Christian", which refers to a certain belief system within Christendom. All Christians no matter where they may be found are called to be "evangelists" and that's another matter from what you refer.

Kevin

[Geekyfanboy]

I would like to apologize for my statement about Evangelist Christian.. that was wrong of me to paint all of them with the same brush. I meant no ill will to anyone who is an EC. But they do tend to be the most vocal against homosexuality.

I don't mean to nitpick here Kenny but I believe you meant "Evangelical Christian", which refers to a certain belief system within Christendom. All Christians no matter where they may be found are called to be "evangelists" and that's another matter from what you refer.

Kevin

You are correct Kevin.. thanks for the correction.

[Poodyglitz]

:D Awesome Moyer...

I however have decided that I'm voting for Data. At least he's honest....and... he's really, really, really strong.  ;)

The only thing is, you press the button in his back and Data folds like a house of cards.

"Pinocchio is broken. His strings have been cut."
-- William Riker

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Thats where you hire lots of trustworthy bodyguards for Data to watch his back.  lol

King

[Locutus]

Why not just disable the button?

[Locutus]

I am Republican and I am not happy with any of the candidates.  The meaning of the word Republican has been completely re-written by the current party leadership as it has disturbingly crawled in bed with the hard-line conservative religious leaders, no longer believes in fiscal responsibility, hugs a quasi-fascist anti terror campaign, and is too quick to engage in military action to "solve problems".

I am more of an Eisenhower Republican - I believe in fiscal responsibility, a more responsible foreign policy (no war with Iran), and making sure that we can take care of our citizens that most need help.  I do not believe in the death penalty, I believe that marijuana should be legalized, and I believe that we have an obligation to breakup the military industrial complex.  War is very good for business, but at too high of a cost in human lives. 

I am very concerned with the erosion of our rights, and the direction that we have taken as a nation.  The current administration is fueled by one thing: Fear.  They are trying to scare us into giving up our freedoms in the name of security.  We are doing exactly what Bin Laden wanted us to do.  We have played into his game.

That being said, I support the military action in Afghanistan, but oppose our military action in Iraq.

Bush II has been a complete disaster for this nation and the party. 


That is my opinion.

You are a Democrat. Welcome. ;)

[Locutus]

I am actually a Green. I don't think the Dems go far enough to the left, considering that they are, as I pointed out above, Eisenhower Republicans - which is not a necessarily bad thing to be.

I understand that the Green Party has no hope of getting a candidate into the White House any time soon, and to be honest, I would not support one in the current climate. But I feel it is important to have alternate views expressed and maybe we can influence, if there is enough of us, whatever regime is in power.

Someone mentioned Evangelical Christians. (Hi, Kenny.) If you want to know more about this more-common-all-the-time beastie, then watch a film called "Jesus Camp". And know this; I was raised Baptist, and with the exception of the speaking in tongues in the film, I went through similar indoctrinations, the breaking of which took many years of hard drinking, anonymous sex, and a painful divorce. I am the better man for it.

Finally, I am always surprised to hear about scifi fans being Repubs, more so Star Trek fans. The Trek Universe supports such a Socialistic viewpoint, and so constantly vilifies the fascistic and/or theocratic right, that it is a wonder there isn't a Star Trek party even lefter of left, considering how many fans there are purported to be. Think of all the wonderful things we could get done ... .

[moyer777]

Someone mentioned Evangelical Christians. (Hi, Kenny.) If you want to know more about this more-common-all-the-time beastie, then watch a film called "Jesus Camp". And know this; I was raised Baptist, and with the exception of the speaking in tongues in the film, I went through similar indoctrinations, the breaking of which took many years of hard drinking, anonymous sex, and a painful divorce. I am the better man for it.

Finally, I am always surprised to hear about scifi fans being Repubs, more so Star Trek fans. The Trek Universe supports such a Socialistic viewpoint, and so constantly vilifies the fascistic and/or theocratic right, that it is a wonder there isn't a Star Trek party even lefter of left, considering how many fans there are purported to be. Think of all the wonderful things we could get done ... .

wow, I'm feelin' the love!   :wallbash:

[Locutus]

wow, I'm feelin' the love!   :wallbash:

HA!

Honestly, I'm not worried about offending any Evangelical Christians on this board for a few reasons.

1) Evangelicals are offended by pretty much everything except other Evangelicals, and sometimes even by THEM. They look for things to be offended by and then write letters and vote in Evangelical congressmen to get their issues into law. (OK, we all do that, but their issues tend to be great for them specifically even as they erode our Constitutional rights.)

2) I'm not talking about people with faith. I'm talking specifically about the far righties KNOWN as Evangelicals. They look like Christians, they talk like Christians, sometimes, they even act like Christians - but they are NOT Christians, at least not as I and anyone I knew ever practiced the faith. I am not insulting those with faith. I am indicating the cancer that is the Evangelical (and I will stop putting the word Christian behind it, as it assumes something that is not true, namely that they are in fact Christians.)

3) If you ARE an Evangelical, what are you doing on the Internet? What are you doing on this board? What are you doing watching Star Trek? If you truly know what an Evangelical is, then you are aware that they cannot possibly be part of this community, not the least reason of which would be the propensity to proselytize and tell certain people (Hi, Kenny) that they are going to Hell for their "chosen" lifestyle. They would be preaching every single time they opened their mouths. And Rico would warn them and then kick them, as they would in no way attempt to be as calm nor as polite to any of us as I am being to them. Since no one on here does that, at least as far as I've seen, I believe I can safely assume no one on here is an Evangelical.

So, Moyer. Relax. I have my own personal faith. I speak no ill of those who have faith. I am not a huge fan of organized religion, but I understand the part it plays in people's lives, and I can appreciate it in that context, as long as they can understand that I don't wish to participate.

As far as the Right Wing comment goes - have you (any of you, not just Moyer) ever wondered where we get the terms Right and Left wing (if indeed you do not already know)? Any Political Science class in college would teach you this (or even High School, but I didn't take it there) but here is a cool article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum. it gives some interesting alternatives to the standard concepts. Enjoy.

[moyer777]

One of the reasons I love this board is because we all get along even with differing backgrounds and belief systems.  I really haven't noticed any pushing of each other's beliefs until now.   :-\ 

You obviously have a strong opinions and have no problem painting people with a broad brush. 

As for me, I won't stoop to generalizations about any particular group of people.  I reserve the right to enjoy the friends I have made on this board and focus on the things we have in common, not the opposite.

 

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Must....resist....replying......

King

[Jen]

You're entitled to your opinions but don't put us all in a box. This is why I hate politics, it's divisive.
This is a pretty diverse group and I have made friends who come from many different backgrounds here.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Which is why I don't talk about it often.  I know I might have "vented" here, but this is the first I've talked about politics to anyone in a long time.

King