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Our Next President

Started by Geekyfanboy, January 21, 2008, 12:35:55 PM

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Bryancd

Well, last nights Florida Primary sure was a barn burner for McCain. Romney is going to have to dig deep into his own pockets to keep him alive through Super Tuesday. Guilliani is out, so his supporters will go to McCain, who know looks like the guy to beat. I will be supporting him in the fall.
For the Dem's, Edwards departure simply leaves the field as is, Clinton vs. Obama. If they dominate Obama, McCain wins, if they nominate Clinton, she wins.

Ktrek

Well, I have decided to throw my lot in with Obama. I have been a Republican most of my adult life and have voted that way with the exception of Jimmy Carter. However, I can no longer support the Republican position as it currently stands. In Texas our primaries are May 4th, I think, and I intend to vote for Obama. Hillary is way too scary for me. I also cannot understand why anyone would think that a Bush, Clinton, Bush and Clinton again dynasty is good for this country. If you have valid reasons I'd like to know! Why should two families be allowed to run the country for a quarter of a century? It makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever. OK, I admit she was First Lady but that does not qualify her to be President. She also has no leadership qualities. I suppose the first time America is in real danger she is just going to sit in the oval office and "cry"? I could care less about her tears and how personal she thinks all this is. I care about a "vision" for America that is better than the one we have today and I think Obama has that vision and he believes in the "people" and not the politicians. Change begins with me and change begins with you, and if enough of us "get" what Obama is saying we can make a difference in this country.

Now, that said, let me say that even though I do not want to vote for McCain in November he will be getting my vote if it means defeating Hillary. I'm very encouraged by the advances Obama has made. In polls only a few weeks back the news media was telling us he had NO chance but now look where he is! Running neck and neck with Hillary. The Clintons do not play nice and their tactics are unscrupulous but I think Obama can overtake her. Just today it was announced that she was having to "lend" (of course expecting full restitution) $5 Million of her own money to her campaign. Obama does not have the deep pockets of Hillary but guess what? He has raised almost that much in 24 hours just from those who believe in him. Last month in 31 days his supporters raised $32 Million dollars. No big corporations like Hillary just common people like you and me!

If you have not listened to Obama and heard what he has to say then please go to barackobama.com and check out the Media section and listen to his speeches. He is one who can motivate and make you proud once again to be an American.

If you find yourself that you cannot support Hillary I would ask you to please consider donating even just $25.00 to his campaign. He needs money to pay for advertising in order to overcome Hillary. Every little bit helps!

I believe and think that Obama has what it takes to be a GREAT President. He genuinely cares for the people. He has not sold out to Washington politics and he has INTEGRITY.

If this Republican can find hope in a Democrat than I know others can also! A vote for Obama is a vote for hope and change. We can do this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsrgYvx7KJE&eurl=http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hqblog

Kevin

"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Darth Gaos

While broad, general ideas like "hope" and "change" make for good speeches from the bully pulpit, good speeches do not a good President make.

If he wants to create what would, in essence, become the one of the largest federal bureaucracies in this country by giving everyone government run health care, thereby possibly creating situations common to Canada and the UK where people have ridiculously long waiting periods for some procedures....that is not the kind of change I want.

If he is going to raise taxes on everyone to pay for the above gov't run health care....and make no mistake, regardless of his "middle class tax cut" talk, taxes would have to be raised across the board to pay for something as massive as socialized health care...that's not the change I want.

If he is going to pull out of Iraq prematurely, compromising strategic positioning and doing far more harm in the long run to our foreign policy, along with the fact that it will give the radical sect of Islam a mammoth propaganda victory and do NOTHING to dissuade them from wanting to see the US fall and most likely embolden them in plotting future attacks on us and our interests around the world...that is definitely not the change I want.

I also would like a few more specifics on some of his other positions...the above examples are pretty much all I hear about from him.  I am not a one issue voter by any stretch but I have to admit that the prosecution of the war on terror is a big issue to me and  Senator Obama's position "I want to talk to our enemies and try and mend fences" position is not encouraging at the very least and I think would be nothing but a futile exercise of whizzing into the wind.

Ktrek, you are absolutely right.  I also believe that Senator Obama is a man of great integrity and he may one day make a great President, I just don't know that now is the time.  Believe me I don't disagree very much at all with what Obama wants to accomplish or his vision about where he wants to take the nation.  My fundamental disagreement is with the methods that he (or Senator Clinton) want to use to accomplish these goals and achieve that vision.
I think it was Socrates who spoke the immortal words:  I drank WHAT?

Jen

Good points Darth Gaos. Obama and Clinton are going to be debating in Austin soon. They are giving out 100 tickets to the public. I'm going to try to get one... Though I'm a conservative and don't agree with them, I'll listen to what they have to say.
Founding co-host of the Anomaly Podcast
AnomalyPodcast.com
@AnoamlyPodcast

Ktrek

Quote from: Jen on February 14, 2008, 04:36:30 PMThough I'm a conservative and don't agree with them, I'll listen to what they have to say.

Then you don't have much choice in candidates Jen. McCain is no way a conservative. Ron Paul or Huckabee are the most conservative choices but Ron Paul has no chance in the world and Huckabee probably is the one who should have dropped out rather than Romney. Romney was quite conservative.

I also am a conservative but I also think the Republicans have run things too long. And I cannot support Hillary at all. So my only choice is Obama because nobody else (Paul or Huckabee) have a chance.

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Jen

You have a right to your opinion Ktrek. I'm not straight ticket Republican... And I happen to like McCain. Bush has totally ticked me off more times than not. Though I admire Huckabee I don't like that he wants to change the constitution—leave it alone. My main concern is our country's defense. I trust McCain for that.
Founding co-host of the Anomaly Podcast
AnomalyPodcast.com
@AnoamlyPodcast

Ktrek

#81
Jen,

I have no doubt that McCain has the country's defense as a core value but so does Obama. He just believes that the Iraq war was wrong from the start and it's wrong now but he also believes that cautious withdraw is called for. Obama is not against all wars as he feels the war in Afghanistan is right but not the war in Iraq. McCain will keep us in the Middle East for as long as possible because he has ties, like Bush, to oil money. Obama believes the U.S. should find a way, and soon, to not be dependent on Middle East oil, and rightly so.

As for McCain being a conservative I guess he is about as conservative as Ted Kennedy as he is in bed with him on several issues. Check his record.

I'm not discounting your views but just encouraging friendly debate. So don't take it personally please!

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Jen

#82
I am fine with friendly debates Ktrek. I just don't want to invite conflict—I HATE arguing, it stresses me out.  So if I disagree, let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

To address your comment above, McCain is more conservative than Obama or Clinton. He is in the middle as far as politics goes and I personally believe that's where the country should move. Some conservatives are ticked at him because of his stance on immigration and his willingness to cooperate with others...so radio hosts tag him as a "traitor". I'm not swayed by the endorsements of celebrities or talk show hosts (radio or TV) so I haven't rejected him.

As I've mentioned before I'm sick and tired of politics. Everyone is complaining that Washington can't get things done. Maybe that's because very few politicians want to do what's right, they just do what their party wants to gain or keep the power. If Ron Paul wasn't crazy, I'd vote for him... 

I'm inclined to agree with McCain with regards to immigration. Build a fence? What a crock! My family is from deep South Texas, I know fences don't stop illegals. They dig under it, climb over it, cut through it. What a waste of money, not to mention hypocritical action (Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!) The legalization process is a huge bureaucratic hairball. The waiting list to become an American citizen is huge and it's so expensive. I have a friend who is an American. Her daughter was born in Canada. Apparently there was some sort of cut off period as far as how old an American has to be to give birth to children who have duel citizenship. I think my friend said she was just over 18 (she's in her late fifties now). Anyway, she has told me about the crap her daughter has to go through to keep a green card. The agency that "regulates" this doesn't know up from down. They issued her a Social Security number, even though she isn't American and she didn't apply for it. Since her younger brothers have duel citizenship they probably just assumed she did too. Now this agency has finally realized it was wrong, after almost thirty years. She has tried to get legalized and has spent thousands of dollars to do so, but was told the waiting list was eleven years! This needs to be fixed... It shouldn't be this complicated. If they want people to become Americans and stop coming over illegally they need to correct the problems not cover it with a band aid.

Did you know that President Bush just sent a billion dollars to Mexico so they can protect their southern boarders? What the!? Those are the things Bush does that ruffles my feathers.

I don't think the war is unjust. I come from a military family and they're not criminals they're our protectors. The men and women of our armed forces volunteered to protect and serve their families and friends—their country. They are not stupid...they have not been duped, they are doing what they believe is right for you and me. If they didn't we'd probably be suffering at the terrorists hands on a regular basis here. We are fighting people who would jump at the chance to kill more of us if presented the opportunity.  I'd rather we confront them over there than over on our own soil and I'm thankful that there are people who are willing to do it.

Obama has little experience with regards to this. McCain was a Vietnam veteran, if anyone knows about quagmires... it's him.  Obama continues to stir people for change but he doesn't talk about the issues. Even if I disagree with McCain on some issues, he has remained constant with regards to his stance on many things, and I feel I can trust his word more than the others. I won't vote for Obama. I can move to the middle, but I can't move to the left... it's just not going to happen.
Founding co-host of the Anomaly Podcast
AnomalyPodcast.com
@AnoamlyPodcast

Geekyfanboy

That was very well said Jen, I don't agree with most of it.. but to each his own..

On the issue of immigration I agree that the government needs to overhaul the entire process. I personally deal with the immigration issue everyday. Under the current immigration law because I'm a gay man I don't have any rights. I find my true love living in Austria, if I were straight and Harry was female all I would have to do is marry Harry and he could apply for citizenship as my partner. Oh wait.. I can't legally marry in this country under the immigration law. Republicans see it as a detriment to the sacred vows of marriage. Even though my love for Harry is no less then a man's love for his wife. But we are looked upon as second class citizens and don't deserve the rights of the majority.

And I just have to say it sickens me that anyone would willing vote for Huckabee, the things he has said about gay people are unbelievable, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised since the Evangelist Christians are behind him 100% and we know how they feel about us "FAGS".

Sorry about the rant.. it's tough sometime living in a world where 2/3's of the people hate you for who you love.

KingIsaacLinksr

I just have two questions:

One:  Disregarding Obama or Mcain and what they've said.  What makes you sure that they will stand by what they say?  Lets face it.  Bush certainly failed in his 2nd term to do what he said.  (I still think he did a good job in his first term)  So what makes you sure that any of these candidates will follow through with what they've said thus far?  History within the last 15+ years shows otherwise.  Not just Presidents but Governors and senators etc as well. 


Two: What should we do about Illegal Immigration if a fence is not going to work?  Lets face it, we cannot handle Mexico and the US's population at the same time.  But as far as I can tell, thats what is going to happen in about 10 years.  How can we keep taking people in?  I don't want to be a closed country that won't let anyone in, but we can't keep taking on ppl that suck on US's lifeblood without giving back.  (Yes, lets face it, not all immigrants work/pay taxes.  I sadly know of some.)  So is there an answer? 

King
A Paladin Without A Crusade Blog... www.kingisaaclinksr.wordpress.com
My Review of Treks In Sci-Fi Podcast: http://wp.me/pQq2J-zs
Let's Play: Videogames YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/kingisaaclinksr

X

Quote from: Kinglinksr on February 15, 2008, 09:56:06 AM
Two: What should we do about Illegal Immigration if a fence is not going to work?  Lets face it, we cannot handle Mexico and the US's population at the same time.  But as far as I can tell, thats what is going to happen in about 10 years.  How can we keep taking people in?  I don't want to be a closed country that won't let anyone in, but we can't keep taking on ppl that suck on US's lifeblood without giving back.  (Yes, lets face it, not all immigrants work/pay taxes.  I sadly know of some.)  So is there an answer? 

King

Actually, this view is kind of myopic. Do illegal immigrants pay taxes? Depends on who you ask.

Most employers, even when they are hiring illegal immigrants, require them to use socials. Now this is money that will enter the system, but never be used because the numbers aren't valid. All it does is dump money in the the Social Security program that becomes just another source of fed income.

those that don't pay taxes are working in jobs that are mainly unwanted and for wages far below min wage. This "extra" profit the people that use this labor makes is still put down on the books and as profit, it is a taxable expense. So while the individual makes less than normal pay, the government makes their pay and the reduced cost of the labor allows for the cheaper cost of the product and this in turn allows more product to be sold because it is affordable. more product sold means more income from sales tax and more employment to those jobs that many americans would be willing to take.

The problem isn't that there are illegals in the country, the problem is that people want to make it an issue and let's face it. As long as immigration is an issue, it becomes a supply and demand thing.

People make money bring them over and their employers save money by paying them less and forcing them to take it because the can be deported.

If not for the immigrant workforce or the migrant workers that are mostly illegals making little to nothing, there would be no life's blood. Do you really think that we would be able to afford fruit grown in Cali with a min wage of over 8 bucks and 30 - 50 workers needed to havest for upwards of 12 hours a day for 2- 3 weeks?

It is my opinion that politics have for years been using the ignorance of issues as a means to manipulate the common man. Our electorial system is built on a foundation that assume the common man doesn't really know how to vote, so they need someone to do it for them.

Political debates assume the same thing. People will be quick to attach themselves to negative suface information and they won't bother to look deeper into the issues. People assume that someone else is going to solve the problem for them, if it even is a problem, and they leave it there. Instead of looking to those we elect for a solution to what they tell us are the problems facing us, I think that we need to do the work ourselves and learn what the issues are and how we would do our part to solve them.

I don't expect anyone to pay my bills or fix my problems at home. I can't expect someone I don't know to come up with a solution to the things that I consider a problem if I don't do my part to figure out a solution.


That's only my two cents and only because I am tired of the politics that seem to be creating problems without considering if it really is a problem.

X

Since I was talking about solutions. I think that we should just drop the need to wall the boarder and begin the process of creating a unified currency for this side of the world.

Not only will it make money stronger, it would make living conditions better and it would reduce the need for people to want to immigrate.

This unified currency would strengthen the all time low of the dollar and if we were smart it would make us closer to our neighbors. It would become a way to standardize the level of care on this side of the globe and also reduce the jobs that are being shipped elsewhere because standards are on the rise.

Bryancd

Jen:
I dig Ron Paul too, but he really does come across like a nut job a lot!

Kenny:
As a moderate Republican, I can very much appreciate the frustration you and Harry must feel regarding this contentious issue. I wish the Republican party could see their way clear to allow for a form of civil union wherein gay couples could have access to all the rights and benefits afforded heterosexual marriages. I would support that in a hear beat.

Just X:
Well said, a unified currency would be of a great long term benefit to the entire region. It may not be as good a result as the situation with the Euro has been, however, as the economies of Central and South America are not as mature as those of Europe, excluding the ex-Soviet block nations.

Jen

#88
Kenny, I just want to say that I an "Evangelical Christian", to be specific I am a Baptist. I don't agree with Huckabee and I don't think you are the word you used. I respect you as a human being, and as a friend. I know many others who are the same.
Founding co-host of the Anomaly Podcast
AnomalyPodcast.com
@AnoamlyPodcast

Geekyfanboy

I would like to apologize for my statement about Evangelist Christian.. that was wrong of me to paint all of them with the same brush. I meant no ill will to anyone who is an EC. But they do tend to be the most vocal against homosexuality.