Kirk is Dead!

Ktrek · February 01, 2008, 09:12:37 PM

As I visit many Star Trek related message boards the one thing I am really getting sick of hearing is the whiny squeaky wheel fandom segment that refuses to let JJ Abrams make his own film and insist that Shatner MUST be in the new film. Abrams has said the script does not justify putting Shatner in because of some fanboy urge. If he put Shatner in the film then they would have to spend time on how and why since as JJ has said....Kirk IS DEAD! Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?

I love Kirk as much as the next fan and maybe more than many but I'm willing to accept that Kirk is DEAD! These fans who keep pushing and pushing to put Shatner in are like a bunch of teenage groupies or even worse cultists who worship at the shrine of Shat!

Even if JJ wanted to try and write Shatner in right now he can't because of the writers strike. They have to use the script they have and the plot does not allow for Shatner to be in the film. If William Shatner has accepted the idea then why can't we? I know he thinks it's a bad business decision but JJ only has time to tell one story and this one happens to revolve around Spock and not Kirk. Although a young Kirk will have a prominent role to play. Just no room for a DEAD Kirk.

I'd like to close this rant with a quote from Mr. Spock in the episode called "The Tholian Web".

"We simply must accept the fact that Captain Kirk is no longer alive"

Enough said! Thanks for reading!

Kevin

moyer777 · February 01, 2008, 09:15:40 PM

How much you wanna bet that Kirk is the rabbit up their sleeve? I bet it's a big publicity stunt that he isn't in the movie, but secretly he makes a cameo.. that would be so funny. You never know when Bill is acting or being serious.

:)

Ktrek · February 01, 2008, 09:23:04 PM

Quote from: moyer777 on February 01, 2008, 09:15:40 PM
How much you wanna bet that Kirk is the rabbit up their sleeve? I bet it's a big publicity stunt that he isn't in the movie, but secretly he makes a cameo.. that would be so funny. You never know when Bill is acting or being serious.

:)

After all of this I would be really angry if Abrams puts him in. I accept the fact he is not going to be and I now do not want him in it at all. The Shat always has to have the limelight. I'm hoping that Chris Pine will be a better Kirk than Shatner ever hoped of being.

Kevin

Rico · February 02, 2008, 06:03:46 AM

While he certainly died in the "Generations" movie - this is Sci-Fi. I would of accepted him in another movie if the story justified it. But from what I know, this story just didn't really work trying to slide him in somehow. Oh, and he is plenty alive of course in the books and earlier episodes and films.

But Chris Pine better than Shatner as Kirk? Sorry, that's never going to happen in my book. I'm hoping he does a good job of course, but there will really only ever be one true Kirk. Shatner is Kirk and Kirk is Shatner.

jedijeff · February 02, 2008, 07:26:29 AM

JJ Abrams has his own Kobayashi Maru to go through, as there are fans who want the Shat in the movie, so if he caved to him, he would have another group he would have to answer to complaining he is stepping out of Continuity as Kirk is dead. As what the final out come will be, my guess is the reports are right, and the Shat is not included. But part of me thinks also like Rick, that it is possible, this is a surprise, and Shatner will appear. I tend to lean more towards him not being in the movie, but I guess never say never.

I hope that Chris Pine does a great job with Kirk, and adds some to the role. I don't think one movie can erase 40 years of what Shatner has done with and represented to the role. I can move forward with Chris Pine, like I can with the re-imaged BSG, and appreciate both sets of characters. But I think that Shatner will always be the primary person associated with Kirk, at least for the next few generations. If they continue this franchise and characters past our life times, then I guess that is anybodys guess what a future person would accept as Captain Kirk.

Ktrek · February 02, 2008, 07:43:17 AM

Well, Sean Connery may be considered by many to be James Bond but I by no means think he is the only Bond and each actor has brought something to the Bond character. I actually prefer Timothy Dalton's Bond as the more in keeping with Ian Flemings novels but Pierce Brosnan was fine as Bond. If people can accept a different actor every so many years playing the same character in Bond films why not in Star Trek? Chris Pine may actually give the character of Kirk a brand new dimension that will bring in a younger audience to keep the flame alive.

If this was a TNG movie we would have fans demanding Brent Spiner appear in it as well. And yet Data is DEAD!

Kirk is a "character"! He is NOT Shatner. No more than Johnny Weismuller is Tarzan or Buster Crabbe is Flash Gordon. Many other actors have played those roles in the past and I'm sure many other actors will play them in the future. It is the character that lives on. Not the actor who played them.

Kevin

Rico · February 02, 2008, 07:53:05 AM

Kevin in most cases you are correct. But I disagree in this one. Forty plus years is a very long time for a single person to play a role and be identified with a part. In your other examples such as Bond after a few films another actor stepped in. This isn't the case with Kirk and Shatner. Like Jeff said, one new 2 hour film won't take that away. Now don't get me wrong, I'm hoping Chris Pine does a superb job and we get to see him again. And like I said above, from what I know Shatner just didn't work for the story of this film. And that's perfectly fine with me. So again, bring on the new but I won't be forgetting the old anytime soon.

P.S. In Nemesis they easily left the door open for Brent to come back as a "Data" character. Not exactly the same, but basically they saved his memories and he had another body. Sci-Fi in general is very good at keeping all "possibilities" open.

timothypeterson · February 02, 2008, 02:34:48 PM

Funny, awhile back I had the same thought as Moyer 777 - That they may deny Shatner's involvement and then have him appear in some brief cameo at the last moment.

If they did have him back, the continuity issue wouldn't offend me, as I assume years had passed since Generations had taken place and lot could have happened in that time period - Which I would not expect them to address in this movie.

Perhaps Kirk returned via the method used by Shatner in writing his "The Return" book series. I liked those books and had no problem with the plot devices he used to justify the return of his character.

Having said all that though, I agree with Rico, that the film will work just fine without Shatner making an appearance.

Heck - I'm just jazzed that they are doing a new movie - period!

Tim

Bryancd · February 02, 2008, 04:06:38 PM

Quote from: jedijeff on February 02, 2008, 07:26:29 AM
JJ Abrams has his own Kobayashi Maru to go through, as there are fans who want the Shat in the movie, so if he caved to him, he would have another group he would have to answer to complaining he is stepping out of Continuity as Kirk is dead.

Jeff, I think JJ is going to blow continuity completely out of the water regardless. Certainly visually and he is clearly attempting to make a Trek movie for a new audience, which gives him a free hand to re-invent the franchise. In regards to Shatner's participation, I don't really care one way or the other, but it is somewhat clear that this film will begin potentially post Nemesis and go back in time. How else could Nimoy be in it and he says Shatner can't becuase he is dead?