Superman Reboot (Man of Steel)

[Bryancd]

What rules? It's an online conversation, broken down into little sound bites spread over days and weeks. I don't change the rules, I change my level of interest. If I can see beyond a plot hole in one film but point it out in another, what rule am I breaking? Your Code of Conduct? Should we all just agree on everything? That would be pretty dull. And if you have a bee in your bonnet over something in the Into Darkness thread, then bring it up there and I will respond otherwise, moving on...

[Dangelus]

What rules? It's an online conversation, broken down into little sound bites spread over days and weeks. I don't change the rules, I change my level of interest. If I can see beyond a plot hole in one film but point it out in another, what rule am I breaking? Your Code of Conduct? Should we all just agree on everything? That would be pretty dull. And if you have a bee in your bonnet over something in the Into Darkness thread, then bring it up there and I will respond otherwise, moving on...

The horse is well and truly flogged Bryan. I am starting to believe you're not actually aware of the things I am trying to convey to you. Lol

[Bryancd]

What rules? It's an online conversation, broken down into little sound bites spread over days and weeks. I don't change the rules, I change my level of interest. If I can see beyond a plot hole in one film but point it out in another, what rule am I breaking? Your Code of Conduct? Should we all just agree on everything? That would be pretty dull. And if you have a bee in your bonnet over something in the Into Darkness thread, then bring it up there and I will respond otherwise, moving on...

The horse is well and truly flogged Bryan. I am starting to believe you're not actually aware of the things I am trying to convey to you. Lol

No Dan, I am aware of the criticism you are attempting to level at me and I am suggesting I have no intention of being lectured by you. You have now drifted into insulting me personally, so we can keep going if you like. Mate, if you want to have a go at me, let's have it.

[Bryancd]

Anyway...

If memory serves in Superman 2, when he brought Lois to the Fortress of Solitude, wasn't there a but where Lois almost falls into the chasm and Superman garbs and her and warns her to be careful? If so they are setting up our understanding that to fall into the chasm would be very bad. So it's difficult to see how the intention of the three villains falling in there was anything less then their demise.

[Dangelus]

Not trying to insult you but we do this all time. I question your logic, you blow up for bit then you chill out and but we get nowhere. It's frustrating! :)

[Dangelus]

Anyway...

If memory serves in Superman 2, when he brought Lois to the Fortress of Solitude, wasn't there a but where Lois almost falls into the chasm and Superman garbs and her and warns her to be careful? If so they are setting up our understanding that to fall into the chasm would be very bad. So it's difficult to see how the intention of the three villains falling in there was anything less then their demise.

I believe that Lester intended for us to believe that they did die. Unfortunately he used existing footage that was filmed in such a way because the original intention was that they lived. This makes Superman seem very callous but I agree people didn't bat an eyelid at the time.

I'm not sure if the scene you describe was originally there or an addition although thinking the latter may be giving them too much credit.

[Bryancd]

Not trying to insult you but we do this all time. I question your logic, you blow up for bit then you chill out and but we get nowhere. It's frustrating! :)

Well, I wouldn't presume to debate that. :)

Look, it's a logic fallacy to argue a point of view that may seem to you to be contradictory. It's not. I may have given Into Darkness a pass on plot points you found lacking and I didn't but that is the nature of how we each experience a film, completely subjective. I never said you were wrong, you can't be wrong when it comes to an opnion. If I disagree, I am free to argue the contrary. But you can't apply some random egalitarian Rules of Conduct to something which is subjective.

[Bryancd]

Anyway...

If memory serves in Superman 2, when he brought Lois to the Fortress of Solitude, wasn't there a but where Lois almost falls into the chasm and Superman garbs and her and warns her to be careful? If so they are setting up our understanding that to fall into the chasm would be very bad. So it's difficult to see how the intention of the three villains falling in there was anything less then their demise.

I believe that Lester intended for us to believe that they did die. Unfortunately he used existing footage that was filmed in such a way because the original intention was that they lived. This makes Superman seem very callous but I agree people didn't bat an eyelid at the time.

And thus the situations in this new film need to be considered in that light. Yet there seems to be collective amnesia regarding this.

[ChrisMC]

Yes, absolutely Bryan. People always give things they love due to nostalgia or whatever a pass on iffy things. I just re-watched SM 1 and 2 and kinda winced at some hinky moments, but loved watching them all the same. People seem to be less forgiving of new stuff based on the stuff they liked as a kid. I guess if the internet was around in 1978, some 40 year old guys would be saying how much Christopher Reeve is no George Reeve and this isn't the Superman I grew up with, blah, blah.

[Dangelus]

Superman 2 is a bit of a disaster the reality is we remember it fondly through nostalgia. Don't get me wrong, some great bits in it but other this not so great such super powers made up on the spot for plot sake.

[ChrisMC]

You couldn't possibly mean THIS?

[Dangelus]

And this

[Dangelus]

They live!  :-)

[X]

They live!  :-)

I don't think that you realize what everyone else is saying. That's not what happened in the film. It might have happened in a cut if it, but it doesn't count, it wasn't shown in theaters, and it has never been official. Officially, they died.

[Bryancd]

Right, so to argue that what occurs in the new film is somehow a departure from the previous isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. It is a logical fallacy to argue what occurred in Superman 2 was anything but what it was.