Hold Developers Responsible!

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Also, comparing software development to making food is hardly fair. We have standards of food and safety practice and they are relatively easy to follow. Because food and what causes food to go bad doesn't really change. I don't think we could have the same for software development because the world is constantly changing and advancing.

Yeah but Tim, do you think that was ALWAYS the case? It's probably hard to imagine for any of us, since we've been enjoying the "fruits" of other's labors for generations, but once upon a time, the food industry had no standard practices in place. They had to be developed, as I'm suggestion this needs development.

Your still missing my point. Food creation and how it all works changes slowly, if at all. So creating standards for it is far easier than creating standards for a software world that changes rapidly within a year. We went from the Atari to our Windows 7 systems with mobile systems in about a decade. How do you create standards that work for such rapid development when they will likely be obsolete within a year or two?

[QuadShot]

Bryan, no. In at least one, jury found McDonald's 80% at fault and the plaintiff was awarded $640,000 (Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants)

Joe, I get what you're saying, but don't you agree that since the tech and industry is growing and advancing so much, we need to keep pace with standards and regulation?

[QuadShot]

Also, comparing software development to making food is hardly fair. We have standards of food and safety practice and they are relatively easy to follow. Because food and what causes food to go bad doesn't really change. I don't think we could have the same for software development because the world is constantly changing and advancing.

Yeah but Tim, do you think that was ALWAYS the case? It's probably hard to imagine for any of us, since we've been enjoying the "fruits" of other's labors for generations, but once upon a time, the food industry had no standard practices in place. They had to be developed, as I'm suggestion this needs development.

Your still missing my point. Food creation and how it all works changes slowly, if at all. So creating standards for it is far easier than creating standards for a software world that changes rapidly within a year. We went from the Atari to our Windows 7 systems with mobile systems in about a decade. How do you create standards that work for such rapid development when they will likely be obsolete within a year or two?

No, I'm not missing your point. I never said I was the one to develop this stuff, nor are you. That should be in the hands of people far more intelligent than we, and I never said it would be easy. And you're confusing food creation with regulation. If we create a STANDARD set of regulations, and honestly, although tech advances rapidly the basic CONCEPT and SCIENCE of it remains the same, those standards and  regulations would remain viable for a while.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Also, comparing software development to making food is hardly fair. We have standards of food and safety practice and they are relatively easy to follow. Because food and what causes food to go bad doesn't really change. I don't think we could have the same for software development because the world is constantly changing and advancing.

Yeah but Tim, do you think that was ALWAYS the case? It's probably hard to imagine for any of us, since we've been enjoying the "fruits" of other's labors for generations, but once upon a time, the food industry had no standard practices in place. They had to be developed, as I'm suggestion this needs development.

Your still missing my point. Food creation and how it all works changes slowly, if at all. So creating standards for it is far easier than creating standards for a software world that changes rapidly within a year. We went from the Atari to our Windows 7 systems with mobile systems in about a decade. How do you create standards that work for such rapid development when they will likely be obsolete within a year or two?

No, I'm not missing your point. I never said I was the one to develop this stuff, nor are you. That should be in the hands of people far more intelligent than we, and I never said it would be easy. And you're confusing food creation with regulation. If we create a STANDARD set of regulations, and honestly, although tech advances rapidly the basic CONCEPT and SCIENCE of it remains the same, those standards and  regulations would remain viable for a while.

Well, I hope your not referring to our government making these standards, because they don't have a clue of how our Internet works, much less coding. (See SOPA & PIPA if you dont believe me here). So if not the government, then who?

[billybob476]

I guess that's the problem. I do believe in standards, but I don't feel like the government should be the one defining them. Further to that, if the US government did create standards, that's all well and good for software developed in the US, but what about the rest of the world?

[QuadShot]

I guess that's the problem. I do believe in standards, but I don't feel like the government should be the one defining them. Further to that, if the US government did create standards, that's all well and good for software developed in the US, but what about the rest of the world?

(and for Tim) That's what the article is stating: that this cannot be effectively created by any one country alone, it must be a global thing. Like I said, it's not cut and dry. I don't know the answer to this. I'm just throwing out something I read and I believe in. That shouldn't mean I must be able to have a complete plan :) It's just a starting point, like I said.

[sheldor]

We have software where I work with just HUGE security holes.  The bozo's we bought it from still don't have a clue.

[Feathers]

Can you imagine the latency inherent in a process like this? The entire industry sits on its hands while some beaurocrats try and come up with a set of standards to work too?

OK, I understand the principal but I really can't see it working. The main issue would actually be that security would probably be made worse as a result. Everyone would faithfully (and deliberately) design to the standards as laid down but standards bodies are generally so slow that the srtandards in force at any one time would be woefully short of what was really required.

Maybe someone could come up with a process that would work but I'm in the highly cynical camp on this at the moment.

[PaulECoyote]

When I write code I do my best to stand by it, but as a developer I respectfully disagree with general software being held accountable like that.  I imagine it would hurt individuals, companies and open source projects... who would want to give up their own free time to contribute something and then possibly get sued over it?

If something is specifically in a contract and that contract is violated then okay - but I cannot even begin to imagine what litigating software like that in general would mean - apart from more money for lawyers.

Personally I think it is up to the service provider to do the best it can to secure your data and keep up to date with security patches etc.

[QuadShot]

HOLY FRAK! Is there a flipping way to delete this post? I offered up my thoughts and opinions and all I get is "this is stupid, how could this work? you're idea is nonsense". Dudes, I NEVER flipping said I had the answer to this PROBLEM, and YES it IS a problem. You deny that. Deny there's a problem with crap software being sold that is more damanging than not. I never said I had a plan, only an idea that SOMETHING must be done. Period. So, If there is a way to delete this entire thread, that would be fan-freaking-taskic.

[Feathers]

Wow! This is a new side to debates on this forum!

You offer a view with which others disagree and this is the result????

I don't see anyone being called anything here, just a friendly discussion from opposing viewpoints. Is this really something you feel that strongly about?

Perhaps deleting the thread IS a good idea!

[billybob476]

No need to remove the thread IMO. No one has accused anyone of anything or shot down anyone's ideas as far as I can see. Some of us here (myself included) are software developers and certainly have some insight into various parts of the industry.

The biggest challenge to the original post I've seen is asking how it would be enforced. If I've missed something then definitely send me a PM.

[X]

It's an interesting topic, but something that I'm obviously on the against side of. I don't see a way to enforce something like this or a need to enforce something like this.

I hate to go all free market economy, but if you consistently produce a poor product and refuse to address the flaws, you won't be in business long. This seems to me like a self correcting problem more than anything else. If some company is producing buggy crap I just can't see consumers sitting around waiting to buy the next iteration of it. 

[Rico]

Yeah, I'm pretty close to Chris on this.  Products in general stick around because people buy them and they work.  Much software can be trialed too.  I trial out a lot of stuff on my PC before I buy it.  Also, I find a of companies are pretty responsive to emails or a phone call.  If you don't like something, let them know.  You might even be able to get a refund.  They do want their customers to be happy or they won't come back or suggest their product to others.