SOPA

[Bryancd]

Just going to drop this right here....

http://boingboing.net/2012/02/13/bittorrent-doesnt-hurt-us-bo.html
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986299

King

Yeah, major FAIL on these dude.

[Jobydrone]

Who thought it was dead and buried?  As long as people keep downloading illegally, and the victims of theft keep proposing outlandish, unconstitutional measures to prevent said thievery from occurring, this topic will never be dead and buried. 

[QuadShot]

Joby...I meant the thread here. Not the topic in general. Sorry, I should have been more specific...er, I mean, I WAS more specific but someone pirated my post! :)

[X]

Here is the sum of it in a nutshell for me.

Piracy is illegal. Do it and risk get arrested, but don't cry about it.

Censorship to protect copyright or profit margins is wrong. Adapt to the current technology or hemorrhage some sales.

In the end, it comes down to two issues.

If you are a pirate and get busted, accept the consequences and don't whine about it.

If you are a content producer, step up to the times and make things available universally when possible or risk losing sales. Don't attempt to legislate your laziness and just do a better job of protecting your own assets.

We all know that it's illegal, but so is going even a fraction above the speed limit. Locks only keep honesty people honest and let's face it, be it piracy, speeding, riding a bike without signaling, j-walking, and tons of other little things are illegal, but we all do them to some extent.

I think that you have to look at the big picture. Piracy is not exactly like stealing as we normally see it.

It's global. It's like putting a change tray at the front of a theater and expecting everyone to pay the correct amount when people are just sneaking their friends in through the back door. Some people are moral enough to pay their way and not stick around for another show and others are going to blame the cinema for causing their own problems by not having the proper security. Or blaming them for having prices too high to buy a ticket because they added security.

So to sum it up. People suck on both sides of the issue and everyone will have their reasons for doing something that they want to do and ways to justify why they are right.

[Jobydrone]

I know that Al has very personal reasons for reacting so emotionally to the articles that King linked.  But I don't think that the point of the study is to rationalize stealing.  It appears to be a legit examination of the effect of piracy on sales in the US and abroad.  I found the bolded section very interesting and would like to read the whole thing to determine how they came to that conclusion.  They're saying that based on their study, piracy has not resulted in a noticable loss of revenue inside the US, and that reducing the amount of time between US and international release could lower the rate of piracy outside the US and lower the 7% projected losses.

Personally I don't believe that reducing the window between Us and international release would do much of anything to reduce piracy, but at least it is an potential solution that doesn't involve censorship or violations of the US constitution.

Abstract:     
Hollywood films are generally released first in the United States and then later abroad, with some variation in lags across films and countries. With the growth in movie piracy since the appearance of BitTorrent in 2003, films have become available through illegal piracy immediately after release in the US, while they are not available for legal viewing abroad until their foreign premieres in each country. We make use of this variation in international release lags to ask whether longer lags – which facilitate more local pre-release piracy – depress theatrical box office receipts, particularly after the widespread adoption of BitTorrent. We find that longer release windows are associated with decreased box office returns, even after controlling for film and country fixed effects. This relationship is much stronger in contexts where piracy is more prevalent: after BitTorrent's adoption and in heavily-pirated genres. Our findings indicate that, as a lower bound, international box office returns in our sample were at least 7% lower than they would have been in the absence of pre-release piracy. By contrast, we do not see evidence of elevated sales displacement in US box office revenue following the adoption of BitTorrent, and we suggest that delayed legal availability of the content abroad may drive the losses to piracy.

[QuadShot]

Here is the sum of it in a nutshell for me.

Piracy is illegal. Do it and risk get arrested, but don't cry about it.

Censorship to protect copyright or profit margins is wrong. Adapt to the current technology or hemorrhage some sales.

In the end, it comes down to two issues.

If you are a pirate and get busted, accept the consequences and don't whine about it.

If you are a content producer, step up to the times and make things available universally when possible or risk losing sales. Don't attempt to legislate your laziness and just do a better job of protecting your own assets.

We all know that it's illegal, but so is going even a fraction above the speed limit. Locks only keep honesty people honest and let's face it, be it piracy, speeding, riding a bike without signaling, j-walking, and tons of other little things are illegal, but we all do them to some extent.

I think that you have to look at the big picture. Piracy is not exactly like stealing as we normally see it.

It's global. It's like putting a change tray at the front of a theater and expecting everyone to pay the correct amount when people are just sneaking their friends in through the back door. Some people are moral enough to pay their way and not stick around for another show and others are going to blame the cinema for causing their own problems by not having the proper security. Or blaming them for having prices too high to buy a ticket because they added security.

So to sum it up. People suck on both sides of the issue and everyone will have their reasons for doing something that they want to do and ways to justify why they are right.

X, that is without a doubt, THE best post on this topic. Amen to that buddy...

[Jobydrone]

Al you an hour ago you just screamed STEALING IS STEALING IS STEALING in response to Tim's links, and then Chris posts "Piracy is not exactly like stealing as we normally see it" and you comment that it's the best post ever on the topic.  What's going on here?

[QuadShot]

I know that Al has very personal reasons for reacting so emotionally to the articles that King linked.  But I don't think that the point of the study is to rationalize stealing.  It appears to be a legit examination of the effect of piracy on sales in the US and abroad.  I found the bolded section very interesting and would like to read the whole thing to determine how they came to that conclusion.  They're saying that based on their study, piracy has not resulted in a noticable loss of revenue inside the US, and that reducing the amount of time between US and international release could lower the rate of piracy outside the US and lower the 7% projected losses.

Personally I don't believe that reducing the window between Us and international release would do much of anything to reduce piracy, but at least it is an potential solution that doesn't involve censorship or violations of the US constitution.

Abstract:     
Hollywood films are generally released first in the United States and then later abroad, with some variation in lags across films and countries. With the growth in movie piracy since the appearance of BitTorrent in 2003, films have become available through illegal piracy immediately after release in the US, while they are not available for legal viewing abroad until their foreign premieres in each country. We make use of this variation in international release lags to ask whether longer lags – which facilitate more local pre-release piracy – depress theatrical box office receipts, particularly after the widespread adoption of BitTorrent. We find that longer release windows are associated with decreased box office returns, even after controlling for film and country fixed effects. This relationship is much stronger in contexts where piracy is more prevalent: after BitTorrent's adoption and in heavily-pirated genres. Our findings indicate that, as a lower bound, international box office returns in our sample were at least 7% lower than they would have been in the absence of pre-release piracy. By contrast, we do not see evidence of elevated sales displacement in US box office revenue following the adoption of BitTorrent, and we suggest that delayed legal availability of the content abroad may drive the losses to piracy.

Joby, I did read the study and although they don't come out and say "X+Y=Z" insomuch as cause and effect, they do suggest it. And since they ARE saying that it is highly likely that the film industry is taking actions that increase the amount of illegal downloads, that IS rationalizing. How is saying that since film companies who lag their international releases (which by the way is their right) cause more illegal downloads of their products NOT rationalizing piracy? You're partially right though, reducing the lag won't do much to stop piracy, but it's NOT a potential solution to piracy. X really did sum it up very well, and I'm paraphrasing: if you're going to steal, you'll find a way to excuse it. Be it blaming the film industry for making their products too expensive or lagging the releases.

[QuadShot]

Al you an hour ago you just screamed STEALING IS STEALING IS STEALING in response to Tim's links, and then Chris posts "Piracy is not exactly like stealing as we normally see it" and you comment that it's the best post ever on the topic.  What's going on here?

What do you mean what's going on here? Just because I say X made a great post does not in any way say I don't still view piracy as stealing, now does it? Dude, don't try to twist my statements...

[Jobydrone]

"How is saying that since film companies who lag their international releases (which by the way is their right) cause more illegal downloads of their products NOT rationalizing piracy?"

What I mean is the study is not making excuses for piracy, but rather proposing an explanation for why it is occurring, at least internationally.  Again, I haven't read all 28 pages but I intend to. 

Al you an hour ago you just screamed STEALING IS STEALING IS STEALING in response to Tim's links, and then Chris posts "Piracy is not exactly like stealing as we normally see it" and you comment that it's the best post ever on the topic.  What's going on here?

What do you mean what's going on here? Just because I say X made a great post does not in any way say I don't still view piracy as stealing, now does it? Dude, don't try to twist my statements...

Sorry!  Please don't misunderstand, not trying to twist anything, just trying to understand if you suddenly changed your mind on the subject.

[QuadShot]

Joby...no worries, sorry to have come off flip. No, I haven't suddenly changed my mind, I just meant that X made a great arguement on perspective. I still feel very strongly about piracy and I've stated why a few times here. And you're right that the study doesn't come out and excuse piracy. But it does suggest it. Just my view.

[Jobydrone]

All cool here!  I love a good spirited discussion but never want anyone to get upset or angry.

[QuadShot]

Joby...how in the world could I get angry with you, with that awesome avatar you have?! :)

[Jobydrone]

Joby...how in the world could I get angry with you, with that awesome avatar you have?! :)

Ha, I've been going through alot of them lately haven't I?  I like this one too though and might keep it for a while :)  My daughter and I are huge fans of Pee Wee's Playhouse.  I have to remain vigilant that she doesn't ever see his original HBO special which was much more adult themed than the TV show or films.

[QuadShot]

I'm a fan of Paul myself. But you're right, his HBO special isn't very child friendly! Bit of trivia for fans of Everybody Loves Raymond: Paul Ruebens (PeeWee) was the original actor who played Robert's brother in law Peter! :)