SOPA

[X]

Okay, none of this matters to me anyway, I didn't post that video to start an argument, that's for sure.  I thought it was interesting because he was echoing statements that were made by various people earlier on in this thread.  The one thing he said that I absolutely agree with is that what will end piracy is changes in the way that content is distributed, not censorship, punishments, or government interference.

Here's the thing with that. Change takes time. Even after the transcontinental rail was completed, there were still ships that moved the cargo. After the car and highway were invented, there were still and are still people transporting good via the rail and ships. New means of distribution doesn't mean that they need to be implemented or can be implemented fast and easily. There are far more things to take into account other than personal convenience. 

Let's pretend that everything can instantly go digital. What are the long and short term results of that?

Will stores that carry movies still carry them because it would seem like a poor use of space to do so when the competition is only a click away instantly.

So we don't have to move the physical product. That means we can cut hours and jobs in the retail store because people won't be coming in for stuff they bought before. dvds, blueray, and players can all go bye bye. So can the people's who's jobs it were to build the players or stamp and package the disc, oh and the guy that trucked it in from the guys on the boats.

Let's also kill those ads because who wants to watch those when you can get the ad free version instantly and whereever. Let's also kill the rating system because it won't matter if you can't advertise.

What about your role as a business to support the retailers that have supported you ... nah, screw it because I want to watch something now.

Every action has consequences and these are the ones that I can come up with despite not having a degree in marketing and supply chain economics.

things take time because they need to take time. Pull the wrong thread and everything unravels.

[Bryancd]

Interesting way to look at it, Chris.

[QuadShot]

X, the Good Lord knows I really don't want to debate, but your last statement kind of cries for it. Yes, you have a valid point but isn't that point also why our world is suffering at the whims of Oil companies? Let's not convert to a more effecient, planet friendly fuel source because that would put so many people out of work. No more combustion engine plants, no more oil fields, oil rigs, no more gas stations, no more need for oil changes, etc. That kind of thinking is as dangerous as what you're saying progress is. I know it's difficult and yes, progress will equate to a lot of people having to seek employment elsewhere, but in the end, that progress can and will benefit the planet...We can't lean on the crutch of the past to prevent us from looking to the future...

[X]

That was a pathetic, obtuse argument to justify theft. Whil Weatom I'm sure is a very nice guy, but...

So he can't watch what he wants to watch, blames the content providers, and just steals it instead. Weak.

The only problem is that he wasn't saying to pirate stuff he was talking DRM. He was talking about his PAID content not being accessible.  He's pissed because he can't watch what he paid for when he wants to. I think that on this one, you jumped the gun and attacked without listening to what he was saying.

No I know what he was saying and I understand the distinction but it's the same argument. For example, what if back in the day I owned a VCR and a BetaMax (we did by the way). So I buy a copy of a movie on Beta because it becomes available first. Then a week later it's released on VHS. I paid for the content in a specific format. If i want it in another format, I would have to pay again. Or should I walk into target and steal the VHS version under the defense that I already paid for the content? Are you listening to what I am saying?

I know what you're trying to say but that requires putting words in his mouth for him to say it. He wasn't talking about other formats or his downloading pirate stuff. he just wanted to be able to access the stuff he pays for from the provider that he bought it from.

Imagine if all of your music, dvds, cds, and computers stopped working the moment that you departed US soil. A lot of the EULA that people sign have things about not bringing the tech or programs into other countries. They specifically say that you can't use their stuff in other countries.

Some of this is silly and it would be in their rights to totally crash your system for failure to comply to what you signed.  2 inches should mean that you lose everything you paid for. Most of the stuff in the US isn't allowed to be used oversea, so if you've ever done that you've violated the terms of your agreement.

There are terms like this in even the Windows and Apple EULAs.

What Will was saying and this was only from a media stand point. If he pays for digital content and goes through the place where he bought it, he should be allowed to view it.

Not that he should be allowed to change the format or the device it's used on. Same device. Only difference is an imaginary line.

[X]

X, the Good Lord knows I really don't want to debate, but your last statement kind of cries for it. Yes, you have a valid point but isn't that point also why our world is suffering at the whims of Oil companies? Let's not convert to a more effecient, planet friendly fuel source because that would put so many people out of work. No more combustion engine plants, no more oil fields, oil rigs, no more gas stations, no more need for oil changes, etc. That kind of thinking is as dangerous as what you're saying progress is. I know it's difficult and yes, progress will equate to a lot of people having to seek employment elsewhere, but in the end, that progress can and will benefit the planet...We can't lean on the crutch of the past to prevent us from looking to the future...

I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that I can see that it's going to take a little more than flipping a switch to make everything easier. Also, let's be honest, Streaming isn't more efficient than a Bluray. When you stream you need the power to flow to your computer or tv, the router to make the connection, the power to push the signal, and then the power to run the one or more servers that give you the show. Pressing a Bluray is far cheaper than that because you need to use all that power every time you have to watch the show.

Again, I'm not saying that I agree with the delay in digital or even same day airings of over seas shows here. What I'm saying is that the picture is FAR larger than some companies having their heads up their asses and not doing it only to piss us off. We've went over the hows and whys this happens on a personal level more than a few times in this thread, but what are the global ramifications of everything? Not saying that we shouldn't do it, but isn't it better to think ahead and plan than to assume things will just be better?


Lastly, if it seems that I am on both sides of the argument, it's because I am. I'm trying to see the benefits and the flaws on both the personal and global level. There is a nice consensus that change needs to happen, but the question isn't if we are doing wrong. The question should be "What can we do to fix this without screwing everyone in the process?"

Also, in regards to changing the system, there is nothing wrong with incremental progress when jobs are on the line. I'd love there to be a new energy source, but I wouldn't want to wake up to hear that everyone that works at a gas station is out of work effective now because we found a way to use sea water as clean fuel and because of that every car on the road is now illegal for the pollutants they create.

Sure it would save the environment quicker, but we have to use a bit of foresight when trying to plan the future.

[Jobydrone]

Settle down, Beavis.  If this issue boiled down to "stealing is wrong" then there wouldn't be so much debate going on all over the world about it.  It's about alot more.  You're not doing your argument any favors by name calling, being accusative, and overly simplistic.

Wow..Beavis. Not THAT's not being insulting is it?

Offense is taken, not given.  It's an expression I use when I feel that someone is overreacting, not an insult. 

[QuadShot]

Settle down, Beavis.  If this issue boiled down to "stealing is wrong" then there wouldn't be so much debate going on all over the world about it.  It's about alot more.  You're not doing your argument any favors by name calling, being accusative, and overly simplistic.

Wow..Beavis. Not THAT's not being insulting is it?

Offense is taken, not given.  It's an expression I use when I feel that someone is overreacting, not an insult. 

Ok...odd, but ok :)

[Jobydrone]

I guess it's odd to those that aren't Beavis and Butthead fans, which I tend to forget not everyone is...even though they should be.

[QuadShot]

Joby, nah, couldn't really get into Beavis and Butthead. Not my cup of...well, anything :)

[Jobydrone]

Talking about formatting issues and using the example of the Beta vs. VHS is the crux of what bothers me most about the debate.  It's still illegal to rip a copy of a DVD and reformat it for viewing on your iPad, in fact you still have to download an illegal program to bypass the copy protection in order to do this.  I do not see how this is different thatn taking a CD you've bought and importing it into iTunes to listen to on an iPhone and so on.  I'm breaking the law and should be punished though, for wanting to watch a movie I bought and paid for on another device I bought and paid for? 

Noone said that the changes are going to be easy.  I'm not sure I agree with the bleak picture of lost jobs and failing businesses coming from the digital revolution.  For every lost job, maybe five will be created, who knows?  I know change, while inevitable, is not facilitated when people with power are fighting tooth and nail for things to stay the same.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Wowsers, talk about a thread catching on fire again...I need to re-read it again and think before I say anything, but I want to point out something:

These same companies that have fought VHS, CD, DVD, BLU-RAY and every other format that we have used under the pretense that it would increase piracy and we would lose jobs/$$.  Yet amazingly, these industries are doing as well as they were doing before, if not better. 

:2cents

King

[Bryancd]

Wowsers, talk about a thread catching on fire again...I need to re-read it again and think before I say anything, but I want to point out something:

These same companies that have fought VHS, CD, DVD, BLU-RAY and every other format that we have used under the pretense that it would increase piracy and we would lose jobs/$$.  Yet amazingly, these industries are doing as well as they were doing before, if not better. 

:2cents

King

Oh, there's little doubt that the endgame will be a profitable arrangement hopefully for both the content creators and distributors, hopefully more the creators, and be convenient and cost effective for the consumers. The one thing I can not deny regarding piracy is that impels the industry into actions which usually solve the problem for the better. But it is still stealing.

[X]

Wowsers, talk about a thread catching on fire again...I need to re-read it again and think before I say anything, but I want to point out something:

These same companies that have fought VHS, CD, DVD, BLU-RAY and every other format that we have used under the pretense that it would increase piracy and we would lose jobs/$$.  Yet amazingly, these industries are doing as well as they were doing before, if not better. 

:2cents

King

Oh, there's little doubt that the endgame will be a profitable arrangement hopefully for both the content creators and distributors, hopefully more the creators, and be convenient and cost effective for the consumers. The one thing I can not deny regarding piracy is that impels the industry into actions which usually solve the problem for the better. But it is still stealing.

I agree. It is stealing.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Just going to drop this right here....

http://boingboing.net/2012/02/13/bittorrent-doesnt-hurt-us-bo.html
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986299

King

[QuadShot]

Geez King, just when we thought this was dead and buried. Ok, well...here we go: the 'boingboing" story...so, the authors of the "study" are suggesting that film companies are to blame for piracy? By "lagging" the release of movies internationally, film companies are forcing people to steal copies of their movies? Huh. Sounds pretty stupid to me. So, by that mentality, let's say the iPad 3 comes out and costs $700. Gee, I can't afford $700 for a brand new iPad but I REALLY want one. Solution: steal it. Why not? Apple has made it next to impossible for me to obtain one easily. This rationalization for piracy is nonsense. I'm NOT supporting SOPA, but I AM saying that there are NO GOOD REASONS TO DOWNLOAD something illegally. Period.  I don't care if you WANT to see it but it's just not playing near you. Too fraking bad. That does NOT give one the right to steal it. You know what's so funny about this whole SOPA crap? Those who are in support of piracy are saying that the film and music industries are overblowing the impact of Internet downloading. "Oh it's not significantly impacting sales". While they scream that by prosecuting pirates for stealing stuff is going to result in the total destruction of the Internet AND freedom. Uh...let's say BOTH sides are blowing things out of proportion shall we? STEALING IS STEALING IS STEALING. Period.