SOPA

[Geekyfanboy]

Some FYIs:

GoDaddy's CEO made it pretty clear they wish to continue supporting SOPA, they merely "retracted" their support to avoid losing customers.  Which so far hasn't worked, 21,000 domains have moved from Godaddy. 

Second: The tv and movie industry has spent way more money "combating" piracy than the suspected "loss" of business piracy has accrued.  And that's only if the pirates would have paid for it if they had no choice.  So that's something. 

I already said it before, neither industry is doing anything to truly combat piracy.  If you want to combat it, the first step is giving the consumers some respect =\

King

As I said before I don't want to get into a debate.. but King can you give us links to these accusations that you claim. Thanks

[KingIsaacLinksr]

http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/23/godaddy-ceo-there-has-to-be-consensus-about-the-leadership-of-the-internet-community/
About Godaddy.

About the costs of piracy:

Retracted by request.

Btw, not sure that the big industries won't use PIP and SOPA to abuse others?  Universal is already abusing it's limited power to censor a MegaUpload video from the Internet under a copyright claim, even though the claim is bogus.

http://www.digital-digest.com/news-63223-Stars-Come-Out-To-Support-Megaupload-In-New-Music-Video-Gets-Censored-By-Universal.html

King

[X]

http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/23/godaddy-ceo-there-has-to-be-consensus-about-the-leadership-of-the-internet-community/
About Godaddy.

About the costs of piracy:

http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-costs-hollywood-more-than-us-bittorrent-piracy-111122/
So tl;dr: the cost of piracy is much lower than the cost of fighting piracy with all the advertisements they do, the special interest groups and etc.  there are more articles I can link here I'd needed for additional opinions on this matter, but Google search works too.

Btw, not sure that the big industries won't use PIP and SOPA to abuse others?  Universal is already abusing it's limited power to censor a MegaUpload video from the Internet under a copyright claim, even though the claim is bogus.

http://www.digital-digest.com/news-63223-Stars-Come-Out-To-Support-Megaupload-In-New-Music-Video-Gets-Censored-By-Universal.html

King

I think you should post a retraction because the cost of piracy link is merely speculation of speculative speculation and the author freely admits that there were zero facts used in his formula.

[X]

http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/23/godaddy-ceo-there-has-to-be-consensus-about-the-leadership-of-the-internet-community/
About Godaddy.

About the costs of piracy:

http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-costs-hollywood-more-than-us-bittorrent-piracy-111122/
So tl;dr: the cost of piracy is much lower than the cost of fighting piracy with all the advertisements they do, the special interest groups and etc.  there are more articles I can link here I'd needed for additional opinions on this matter, but Google search works too.

Btw, not sure that the big industries won't use PIP and SOPA to abuse others?  Universal is already abusing it's limited power to censor a MegaUpload video from the Internet under a copyright claim, even though the claim is bogus.

http://www.digital-digest.com/news-63223-Stars-Come-Out-To-Support-Megaupload-In-New-Music-Video-Gets-Censored-By-Universal.html

King

I think you should post a retraction because the cost of piracy link is merely speculation of speculative speculation and the author freely admits that there were zero facts used in his formula.

Thats the point, no one has facts on any of this.  But I shall retract my statement then. 

King

Actually, the facts aren't that hard to get and the writer was playing fast and loose with the numbers. He was using a streaming service price instead of a pure unit download. If he actually used a per view download, then he would have to take the average price of a movie ticket while the film is at the movies and then multiply that times the number of people watching the movie times the number of times watched. That adds up to a lot of money really quick.

He also forgot to mention that whole part about torrents not being streaming and you have a digital copy when done. Each digital copy of a movie can run from 10 -20 bucks if you buy digitally. Not the few bucks a month it takes to stream from Netflix.

That whole exercise is actually insulting to anyone with half a brain. He tried to promote his agenda by devaluing the product and then saying it costs more to fight it than they are loosing.

I don't see how anyone can buy that line of crap.

here is some quick math. I just did a torrent search on mission impossible Ghost protocol. It has over 100,000 active leachers on various threads.

Now let's say they were all here in boston and watched the movie twice over the course of having it with one other person.

that's 400,000 missing tickets from the box office. At 10 buck a ticket on the cheap side, you're seeing a loss of 4 million dollars to the box office. let's toss in a 2.50 cost per customer for the concessions. (That means on average the customers spent 2.50 on concessions for the day. ) That another million out the window.

So that's 5 million in revenue in a week if they only watch it twice with two other people.

Multiply that times each movie being released and you can see why it's a bit of a problem.

[X]

Just as an aside, I think that these people are right to want to protect their products, but I don't think that SOPA is the answer. I also don't think that people are so stupid to not realize that they are choosing to be a criminal and a thief when they pirate something. It's kind of scummy behavior that I'll freely admit to having done myself to see shows from overseas. Having excuses as to why I did it doesn't make me any less  of a scumbag at the end of the day. My actions have contributed in loss of jobs, cancellations of series, and other losses of revenue.

I'm not so dumb or self absorbed as to not see these things, but like everyone else, I have my excuses as to why.

Still a scumbag.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Here is a question: how many pirates would buy legally if they couldn't pirate?  >If< that number is 0.00%, is anything truly lost? 

King

[X]

Here is a question: how many pirates would buy legally if they couldn't pirate?  >If< that number is 0.00%, is anything truly lost? 

King

That's the most ridiculous statement ever made. Theft if theft is theft. What you just asked is how many people would buy something if they couldn't steal it, is anything truly lost. The answer is YES!

People stealing things drives up the price for those people that actually are buying things. If you keep driving up the price, more people will see it as a victim-less crime and add to the crime, thus further raising the price or lowering the profits.

Here's the thing. The rare time I do snag something from the interwebs, I 99% of the time buy it when it becomes available. Hell, I have Netflix and Hulu+ and I still bought Doctor Who's last season as a digital download ... even AFTER downloading some earlier.

Even if the pirates never had any intentions of buying something, other people are paying for it.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Ah ah ah, X, that was not a statement.  That was a question. 

Actually, I know there is a group of pirates who will pay for the content they downloaded, if they feel that the content is worth paying for, otherwise they just delete it and forget it ever exists.  So your Dr Who example is actually apt. 

I'm not saying piracy is right, but the current system isn't the greatest either, which is why Netflix is getting popular. 

Acts like SOPA and PIP though are not solutions. 

King

[Rico]

I think we can all agree that SOPA is a terrible idea.  I have no problem with people who create content trying to protect it, but this isn't the way.  It's nearly impossible to stop copying of content in the digital age.  I believe the answer is pretty simple.  Make it easy for people to pay for and get the content they want (iTunes is a great example).  I have no problem admitting I've grabbed "Doctor Who" off the net when there were big delays for us in the US getting it and our UK buddies were talking about it.  But, I pay for cable TV.  I pay for BBC America.  And now we are getting these shows basically the same day.  In my view, the only real way to stop pirating of content is to make it easier to get it the right way.  The gaming industry has gone through similar things.  One of the big roadblocks is cable TV.  Most people really dislike paying for a ton of channels and content they don't ever watch.  Maybe one day we will get to the point of being able to just buy all the content we want to see on it's own as it airs.  Anyway, just my thoughts.

[Dangelus]

I think part of the problem is that the figures the content owners give in lost sales is a made up figure. They are assuming that the people who pirate would all buy the content if they couldn't pirate which simply isn't true. Some would I'm sure and the flipside is that some actually buy because the liked the content they pirated and wanted to own it officially, the Dr. Who example etc.

Because of this reasoning I'm inclined to go with download piracy in the majority is a victimless crime in my opinion and sometimes can help to promote sales.
I've said it before they are targeting the wrong type of piracy here. They need to focus on the guys SELLING the content in markets, the streets etc because this isn't a victimless crime. In a lot of cases the money goes to fund organised crime and other nasty stuff. A guy downloading a TV show over BitTorrent isn't hurting anybody in comparison. 

[Jobydrone]

It's a challenging topic that certainly won't be solved here on the forums. 

Personally it is very difficult for me to feel sorry for the giant Hollywood studio system that is applying all the pressure on the government to come down hard on the rampant downloading and theft that's going on right now.  Especially the way they seem to want ISPs to do their police work for them.

Here's worldwide box office for the top few films this year...

1.   HARRY POTTER & THE DEATHLY HALLOWS, PT. 2 (WB) - $1.328 bil
2.   TRANSFORMERS: DARK OF THE MOON (PARAMOUNT) - $1.123 bil
3.   PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: ON STRANGER TIDES (DISNEY) - $1.043 bil
4.   KUNG FU PANDA 2 (PARAMOUNT) - $663 mil
5.   THE TWILIGHT SAGA: BREAKING DAWN, PT. 1 (SUMMIT) - $634 mil*

Here's 2010:

1 Toy Story 3  $415,004,880
2 Alice in Wonderland $334,191,110
3 Iron Man 2  $312,433,331 
4 The Twilight Saga: Eclipse $300,531,751
5 Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1 $295,983,305

Looks to me like these figures represent quite a nice increase despite the rampant piracy going on these days.  There's ten films representing over ten billion dollars worth of sales, just on box office alone, and those 2010 figures just represent totals up to December of that year, and don't include home video sales or anything else.  I am sure Harry Potter and Twilight made more than the totals represented above.  Now I know this isn't really any kind of argument, all I'm saying is it's hard for me to support the draconian measures the MPAA and RIAA are suggesting in order to ultimately line their pockets with more billions of dollars.  The figures are just staggering.

[Rico]

I read something recently about a studio wanting to try a test and sell a brand new movie as pay-per-view on the day it was out in theaters.  Now, they were planning on charging something like $60!  But I guess theater owners got upset that it would ruin their business and so they didn't do it.  Now, I love going to the movies and don't want to see that experience to go away, but I think they do need to try new methods of distribution.

[Jobydrone]

I read something recently about a studio wanting to try a test and sell a brand new movie as pay-per-view on the day it was out in theaters.  Now, they were planning on charging something like $60!  But I guess theater owners got upset that it would ruin their business and so they didn't do it.  Now, I love going to the movies and don't want to see that experience to go away, but I think they do need to try new methods of distribution.

There was another story of a California theater chain wanting to sell monthly or annual memberships for unlimited movies but was blocked by the studio system for whatever reasons.  Maybe the theaters and studios should work on getting together and playing nice before they decide to start targeting their potential customers with sanctions and criminal prosecution!

edit to add:  Comcast frequently offers movies now before or same day release as in theaters through their on demand pay per view service.  They aren't $60 bucks but generally cost a little more than their other pay per view features.  They haven't been the huge blockbuster releases either, but more along the lines of films that are in limited release.

[Rico]

I'd love some type of monthly or yearly pass for theaters.  The theater I go to has a little rewards program.  If I pay for 20 movies, I get to see one free.  Oh, and free popcorn on Tuesdays!  :)

Another article on the Godaddy.com fallout here:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/247074/go_daddy_rivals_aim_to_capitalize_on_sopa_controversy.html

[Dangelus]

Yep that ppv idea got killed but I can't see it would have harmed ticket sales that much. I would suspect it would have appealed to home theatre enthusiasts with state of the art systems an huge "cinema" rooms more than the average Joe. Also rich celebrities who'd like to see a movie but don't want to o out to a public theatre.

It's another example of the industry making it so hard for people to watch their legitimately bought content the way they want. I know people who are huge movie disc purchasers but they also download a copy to be a le to view it where they want!

The new "Ultra Violet" system that most studios have signed up to that is supposed to solve these problems is having issues already because of huge fragmentation between the implementation depending on the content provider. Studios make it as hard as possible for the consumer to use because they don't believe you shoud be able to "move" your content around. They want to keep to the old system where you buy multiple versions of the same movie to increase their revenue instead of trying to innovate.

At the same time the latest movies can be downloaded illegally in prestine quality on the day of release or sometimes before...