Well, Engadget (and now others) seem to have uncovered photos of the next gen iPhone. Call it iPhone 4G or iPhone X. A couple of article links below. What do you guys think?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/194493/alleged_iphone_4g_photos_spark_debate.html (http://www.pcworld.com/article/194493/alleged_iphone_4g_photos_spark_debate.html)
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/17/iphone-4g-is-this-it/ (http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/17/iphone-4g-is-this-it/)
Not sure what to say really. I mean it looks legit but I've learned with Apple to wait until the official announcement to form any opinions. Apparently the screen is slightly smaller but more high res, that seems a bit odd to me, I figure they'd have tried t find a way to increase the size.
I hope this version is compelling, it's getting to the point where I want to upgrade my 3G as a lot of apps are beginning to run slowly.
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/18/images-of-iphone-4g-actually-a-japanese-counterfeit/ (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/18/images-of-iphone-4g-actually-a-japanese-counterfeit/)
Some people say that it's a fake. They already debunked the story on several sites, but some grainy photos put that debunking in question
Quote from: Just X on April 19, 2010, 10:04:56 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/18/images-of-iphone-4g-actually-a-japanese-counterfeit/ (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/18/images-of-iphone-4g-actually-a-japanese-counterfeit/)
It's a fake. They already debunked the story on several sites.
Yes - I heard that. However, if you dig a bit deeper you will find it may not be a fake. Engadget has stayed firm, even after the "debunking" came out. I'm not sure quite what to believe, but I have a saying I like to use.
"Rumors are just premature facts."
I'll be a bit annoyed, since I just got my 3GS a few weeks ago, but the only thing I care about at first glance is the forward facing camera and flashbulb.
Oh, prepare to be annoyed. They'll be coming out with a new phone this summer. That's pretty much a certainty based on their release schedule.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on April 19, 2010, 11:40:18 AM
I'll be a bit annoyed, since I just got my 3GS a few weeks ago, but the only thing I care about at first glance is the forward facing camera and flashbulb.
That is simply Apple's business model. They just tweaked/updated their Macbook's too. New iPhone this summer, iPad 2.0 in time for the holiday shoppers. You heard it here first folks! ;)
P.S. Dang it! Where's Bryan on this topic!?!
Well it looks a bit clunky and really selling it on high res doesn't bother me. The iPhone screen is perfect ( for me ). I'd stay happy with your 3Gs I am. But of course once my contract ends I'm bound to looking at the official model :)
I would like to see a user replaceable battery, and microSSD slot - but we know that ain't gonna happen. I have the 3GS - and my contract should be up for renewal around this time....hmmmmmmm....
The biggest annoyance for me is not being able to tether my laptop to the phone and use the data connection.
Quote from: Rico on April 19, 2010, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on April 19, 2010, 11:40:18 AM
I'll be a bit annoyed, since I just got my 3GS a few weeks ago, but the only thing I care about at first glance is the forward facing camera and flashbulb.
That is simply Apple's business model. They just tweaked/updated their Macbook's too. New iPhone this summer, iPad 2.0 in time for the holiday shoppers. You heard it here first folks! ;)
P.S. Dang it! Where's Bryan on this topic!?!
Here I am!!! This photo and story is bogus, that's not the new iPhone. I would think iPad 2.0 not until 2011, I bet they use Christmas to sell out of the current model. That's also a very Apple move.
I'm thrilled with my 3GS...I love love love it. Just a bit annoyed at how quickly they iterate. I agree with Bri, I'd be shocked and dismayed if they released iPad 2.0 this year.
What I really want is for Apple to finally give Verizon users the iPhone. Cmon, At+T sucks here can you just port it already?? Is that so much to ask for?
King
They just have to put the gear for CDMA networks inside - and from what I read that will be done in the very near future.
Quote from: Bromptonboy on April 19, 2010, 04:14:03 PM
They just have to put the gear for CDMA networks inside - and from what I read that will be done in the very near future.
Yep it's coming but again, I see that in 2011 at the earliest. They have agreements with AT&T for iPhone and iPad data. These agreements are VERY lucrative to Apple and AT&T deserves the exclusivity...for now.
AT&T works fine here in Philly, what's the big deal about Verizon?
Try living out west. I can make calls from the middle of Grand Canyon on Verizon! AT&T's coverage out here is spotty.
Quote from: Bryancd on April 19, 2010, 07:47:00 PM
Try living out west. I can make calls from the middle of Grand Canyon on Verizon! AT&T's coverage out here is spotty.
What he said. You watch those Verizon commercials, they ain't lyin. The coverage is about as good as those maps say they are. At&t has never really impressed me but whatever. I guess Apple takes what it gets.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on April 19, 2010, 10:07:48 PM
I guess Apple takes what it gets.
King
Well, it's not like that. Apple isn't a cell phone carrier, they wanted to have an exclusive contract with one of the carriers to 100% support the iPhone when it was released. AT&T gave away the farm to Apple to get that and it's worked out great for the iPhone and great for AT&T. The subsidies offered by AT&T back to Apple allowed Apple to bring the iPhone to market at a price point where they knew they could get the volume they wanted. Apple could have gone with anyone they wanted, they are in the drivers seat on this.
Well it's looking more and more like this phone is the real deal. Or at least an Apple next gen iPhone prototype. Because their legal department has asked for it back now. Read on...
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9175839/Apple_demands_missing_iPhone_s_return (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9175839/Apple_demands_missing_iPhone_s_return)
It's the one GIZMODO has that's real, the pic is different though from the one Med's posted, it looks pretty much like the current one.
Wait now they have the same picture. The one I saw on CNBC this morning looked different. ???
I think it's the same one. It was found inside a case that disguised it as a 3GS.
Quote from: billybob476 on April 20, 2010, 10:26:32 AM
I think it's the same one. It was found inside a case that disguised it as a 3GS.
Ahh, that would make sense, that's what I saw this morning, then.
Verizon's coverage is great, but I have to avoid the whole CDMA thing - so that our phones work when we go to Europe.
I'm not sure how intrested to be in this. My contract is effectively up in a month and while I want to get hold of the multi-tasking elements of the new OS 4.0, I'll wait and see the full detail of what this offers over the 3GS before I commit to one or the other.
(A free 3GS appeals as my next phone if the new one doesn't offer anything significant)
As for the Verison thing - it doesn't surprise me that support takes such a time. The difference in numbers between GSM and CDMA take up across the world makes it relatively predictable. It surprises me that anyone introduces CDMA support first!
Now I'm out of contract on my current iPhone, I'm warming to the new one even without any hard and fast detail. A 'free' 3GS on contract would still make more financial sense though....
Quote from: Feathers on May 24, 2010, 04:14:39 AM
Now I'm out of contract on my current iPhone, I'm warming to the new one even without any hard and fast detail. A 'free' 3GS on contract would still make more financial sense though....
More financial sense yes....but......
Since you are not a Scot, I am smelling a case of upgrade-itis - I recognize the symptoms since I suffer from them as well! :)
Quote from: Bromptonboy on May 24, 2010, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: Feathers on May 24, 2010, 04:14:39 AM
Now I'm out of contract on my current iPhone, I'm warming to the new one even without any hard and fast detail. A 'free' 3GS on contract would still make more financial sense though....
More financial sense yes....but......
Since you are not a Scot, I am smelling a case of upgrade-itis - I recognize the symptoms since I suffer from them as well! :)
Absolutely. I just need to sell the idea on to the rest of the family :(
Jobs also invited Netflix CEO Reed Hastings to the stage to announce a new, free Netflix application for the iPhone. Hastings said the Netflix app for iPad has been among the most popular apps in Apple's App Store, and number one in the entertainment category.
"It's been a tremendous success for us," Hastings said. "It's our fastest growing platform."
The Netflix iPhone app will be available starting this summer.
Quote from: Bromptonboy on June 07, 2010, 10:33:41 AM
The Netflix iPhone app will be available starting this summer.
...for those in the US only, no doubt.
woops...looks like some network trouble during the demo. Heads are going top roll.
10:30 - iPhone 4.
Jobs announces the iPhone 4. "Stop me if you've already seen this," he said, referring to the leak of the phone by Gizmodo. "But believe me, you ain't seen it."
"It's one of the most beautiful designs you've ever seen. It's beyond a doubt the most precise things and one of the most beautiful things we've ever made."
Jobs shows photos of the phone, familiar from the leak. He calls it the "thinnest smartphone on the planet," noting that it's 24% thinner than the previous version.
He then begins talking about the phone's new display, the "retina display," which boasts a four times higher resolution than the previous versions. It's 3.5" display, he says, has 78% of the pixels of the much larger iPad. It's got 960 x 640 pixels. He calls it "the best window on the planet."
10:42 - Problem!
Jobs runs into a major problem when a display of the new phone's resolution fails because of a poor internet connection.
He can't load the New York Times web page on the new phone, which is an odd unscripted blooper, rare for Apple.
"Boy I'm sorry guys, I don't know what's going on," Jobs
"Scott, you got any suggestions?" he says, seeking help from a colleage.
"Verizon!" someone yells. The audience laughs
we wanttsssss one, yessss, we do....(gollum, gollum!)
10:50 a.m. Gyroscope
The new iPhone 4 will have a built in Gyroscope. That is a much more precise motion sensor that can sense the phone's position around 3 difference axes. It can sense pitch, roll, and yaw -- with the accelerometer, that means the new phone can sense six different axes of motion.
Jobs plays a game of Jenga as the audience watches. As he rotates around himself (as in, turning in a citcle), the Jenga stack rotates. He carefully removes a piece at a time. After each removal, he turns a few steps himself, looking for a new piece to remove.
He gets about 8 or 9 pieces out before the stack collapses.
"These phones are getting more and more intelligent about the world around them," he said.
10:55 a.m. - iPhone 4 camera and video
Jobs shows off the new iPhone's 5 megapixel camera, to oohs and aahs from the audience. The camera has an LED flash. will record high definition video, with a "tap to focus" effect. The phone will have a built in
"You can record video and edit it right on the phone, and then with a few taps, send it to MobileMe or send it to YouTube."
Apple then shows a demo of a new built in iMovie app, that allows users to do rather sophisticated video editing on the phone. They show a very impressive demo of a short touristy movie that was recorded, edited and rendered right on the phone. The resolution is stellar.
iMovie will cost $4.99.
11:00 a.m. - Update on the problem
Jobs says everyone was running around backstage to figure out the Internet problem.
"We figured out There are 570 Wifi base station operating in this room. We have two choices -- turn off all the stuff and we see the demos, or I don't show you the demos. Would you like to see the demos?"
Some people reluctantly turn off their computers. Pesky media people don't.
11:05 a.m. - iPhone's new operating system : iOS4
Jobs announces a new version of the iPhone's operating system, which he largely announced a few months ago. It's been renamed "iOS4" and he show of the new metallic logo. The OS will have 100 new features.
11:10 a.m. New features of the new OS
He runs through a bunch of the features that Apple already announced in April. For a rundown, see here.
Jobs announces that iPhone will now offer Microsoft's Bing as a search engine. Google's search engine will remain the default, but users will now be able to choose Bing, in addition to Yahoo, which has been an option for some time.
"Microsoft's done a very nice job on this," he said.
11:15 a.m. 100 million iOS devices sold
He then announced that there have been 100 million iOS devices sold. "No one else even comes close," he said. "There is definitely a market for your apps."
11:18 a.m. iBooks now available on iPhone
iPhone 4 will include the iBooks application, and allow users to download and read books from the iBookstore.
Perhaps most interesting, the app will sync across multiple apple devices, so you can buy a book once on your iPad, say, hand have it wirelessly sync/download to your iPhone or iPod touch.
The iBooks app will automatically sync notes, bookmarks and your "place" (where you left off in the book) across all your Apple devices.
Jobs said the three Apple stores -- iTunes, App Store, and iBookStore, have 125 million credit card accounts combined. There have also been 16 billion downloads of the different media types, he said.
"We believe this is the most of any store on the Web."
11:23 a.m. - iAd platform
Jobs goes to Apple's new iAd advertising platform.
"Why are we doing iAd?" he said "To help our dveloprs earn money to help them produce free and low cost apps for users."
He listed a number of advertisers who will be early entrants into the iAd platform, designing advertisements for the iAd platform:
Unilever, Chanel, AT&T, GE, Liberty Mutual, State Farm, Geico, Nissan, Campbell's Soup, Sears, JC Penney, Target, Best Buy. DirectTV, the TBS network, and Disney.
Jobs said advertisers had commited $60 million dollars for the second half of 2010, and that at only eight weeks old, Apple has earned a decent chunk of the U.S. mobile advertising market.
11:31 a.m. - One more thing: Video telephony: FaceTime
Jobs turns all the lights on the stage for the finale.
Jobs calls colleague Jony Ive with his iPhone 4 and ...
An image of Ive pops up on the big screen -- Jobs is conducting a live video phone call.
But there are still Wi-fi problems so the call is a little jerky.
"The idea of communicating this way, it's an old idea, but we've had to wait an awfully long time for it to become real, haven't we?"
But now video chatting is real -- Apple's name for it is FaceTime.
But there are caveats -- it only works with WiFi -- and of course, only with iPhone 4 models because they have the video camera.
"We need to work with the wireless providers," he said, before FaceTime will work on the cellular network. Though they expect to ship tens of millions of FaceTime capable devices, they'll only work with Wi-Fi for the rest of 2010.
11:41 a.m. New Pricing
Phones go on sale June 24th. They'll be available in both black and white. The phone will cost $199 for the 16Gb version, and $299 for the 32Gb version.
Current iPhone owners will be able to get the new phones for the same prices as new customers -- if they renew their AT&T contracts by the end of 2010.
Upgrades for 3GS and 3G will be available in June -- but 3G doesn't get multitasking.
Well this looks great. I think Fran will be getting one when her phone contract comes up in Sept and I will DEFINITELY be upgrade in 3G when my comes up in Jan.
The account management site for my mobile provider (Fido) is down right now and the phone won't even be available here until September!
Ooooh too tempted now. Out of contract and two weeks to wait...
Admitedly, my main interest is still the multitasking rather than the hardware itself but the screen does look lovely so a 4 may still be a better bet than a cheap 3GS.
The camera is a big one for me as well. I love snapping random shots and phone cameras keep getting better and better. If this trend continues I feel like the point and shoot market will be getting a run for it's money.
If this camera is as good as they let on I don't think I'll be toting my camera along on trips soon enough.
I'm still emoraging that its still on the At&t network. Verizon has been far better for me than At&t has ever been for our family. I really want this device. I want a good solid phone and this is the one. But no, we can get Verizon's cheap knockoff Droid. It looks cheap, feels cheap, etc.
Sorry for the slight amount of anger, but that's what dampens this phone for me. I can't get it. GRRRR! :)
Its a nice enhanced phone and definitely has some really great features. Even cooler that it has better battery life despite all the new features.
king
I like the forward facing video camera - since my wife does quite a bit of Skype video calls to her folks in the old country -this would be perfect (although it will have to be on wifi - not 3 or 4G networks).
I like this quote from Steve Jobs...
"I grew up here in the US with The Jetsons and Star Trek and communicators, dreaming about video calling, and it's real now!"
That's a classic sales line lol
To upgrade or not to upgrade? Definitely a no-brainer for me. My only question is whether to get the 16 or 32 GB version.
Pshh; who am I kidding. 32 all the way.
Quote from: wraith1701 on June 08, 2010, 06:48:40 PM
To upgrade or not to upgrade? Definitely a no-brainer for me. My only question is whether to get the 16 or 32 GB version.
Pshh; who am I kidding. 32 all the way.
Still waiting to see the UK pricing before making that kind of decision.
Now that my ardor has cooled a bit - I may wait yet one more year (when my contract is up to get a better discount). I have the 32GB 3Gs - so if the new release of the phone OS supports tethering - I think ....think mind you...that I will wait.
Bear in mind this is in a rare moment of clarity that will mostly likely fade..
:)
Does the expression 'Dream on...' have any resonance with you? ;)
Seconf hand value of a 16Gb 3G is about £175 at the moment. If that stands post release date then the up front cost of a '4' will be minimal (hopefully) with just the contract costs to bear.
We'll see.
They've released more information about the tethering deal and it doesn't seem worth giving up the unlimited data plan to have to pay even more, for less data, just for tethering. And they've said it wont work with the iPad so it's a no go for me since that is all I'd use it for. I've seen that it's possible to jailbreak the phone and use it as a wifi hotspot, but I've also read that doing this drains the battery of the iPhone in literally minutes. I don't completely understand the ramifications of a jailbreak anyway and I use my iPhone so much I'd freak out if I bricked it or something. I will probably stay on the straight and narrow with my Apple devices.
edit: Oh and I think I read that when model 4.0 comes out they are letting existing customers upgrade even if they aren't eligible yet, as long as their eligibility comes up within the year and they extend their contract for another 2 years. So, BB, depending on your contract date, you may not have to wait. I just got my 3GS in April so I am not eligible, nor would I really want to, although the new screen and flash camera seems pretty nice. I will settle for the OS upgrade and be happy :)
I've always wondered how much people with phones with web data access like the iPhone really need the web part? I'm just about always near a computer to access the web (at home or on the job). If I was a salesguy on the road a lot that would be a different story. Think I brought this up before. I wonder how many jump on their iPhone with a computer right in front of them? Anyway, just wondering.
I do this all the time, at work, to bypass the blocks on certain websites our network imposes, and because I am not crazy about the fact that the city logs all my internet activity. Also I really enjoy the mobile versions of some of my favorite websites, like Ars Technica, Engadget, Kotaku and Joystik, even more than their full featured versions, because you easily get to the meat of the content I really want without annoying ads, popups, animations, etc etc.
Yeah, I use it on 3G at work to a certain degree. More for facebook/twitter stuff. That and bathroom surfing! :D
I use it at work for Twitter etc and, since IT seems to be clamping down on what we can access, may be doing more of it in the future.
I pretty much rely on it at home now too except for the late evening where I might actually be near an active computer. If I'm watching TV or something, I'd always rather turn to the phone than spend the time booting up a laptop or netbook.
It may bizarre but that's just me :)
The web stuff comes in Handy when out and about. I use it if I want to do some on the fly research on electronics or other things I might want to buy when in the store. I was at Costco once and used it to check reviews on a Blu-Ray player, as none of their demo computers had Internet access. The web access comes in nice, when out with friends and have bets on bits of trivia and things like that, or if have to wait somewhere, browsing helps pass the time.
No i do the same, If I'm on the couch I use my phone. Fran's netbook is usually nearby if I need to do something more intensive, but for email, a quick IMDB or whatever it's iPhone on my wifi.
I use it at various stores as well, the best time was I used it at the grocery store to see whether or not cubanelle peppers were hot or not :)
Yeah, I can see all that. The work thing here is actually driving to get some kind of 3G or 4G device. The computers are old, slow, and it would be nice to have something better and quicker (and a bit more private). But at home, I think I'd always prefer to get up and use a real computer. Us geeks need that little bit of exercise. ;)
Quote from: Rico on June 09, 2010, 07:08:23 AM
Yeah, I can see all that. The work thing here is actually driving to get some kind of 3G or 4G device. The computers are old, slow, and it would be nice to have something better and quicker (and a bit more private). But at home, I think I'd always prefer to get up and use a real computer. Us geeks need that little bit of exercise. ;)
You'd better wait for the 4G network and devices to be created if you want one of those!
The best use of my mobile web access was just recently when I bought a 1TB hard drive at Best Buy, and on my way out of the store, on a hunch, I checked out their online store and found that they offered the same drive I had just bought for ten dollars cheaper. I turned around, went back in, and got ten bucks refunded to me on the spot. Useful to have the access to check.
Seems like some folks are having some antenna/reception issues with their new iPhone version 4.
Apple's iPhone 4 signal problems have been the source of a barrage of complaints by customers complaining of a faulty antenna and now Steve Jobs has broken the silence. In an e-mail Jobs downplayed users' reception gripes as a "non-issue." Meanwhile, others within Apple are advising iPhone 4 users to avoid gripping the device from the lower left corner.
As the first batch of iPhone 4 smartphones reached the market on Thursday, several users reported that they are having poor reception issues with their new device when holding the phone by its metal sides in two opposite places.
The metal bands surrounding the sides of the iPhone 4 also acts as antennas for the device, and the signal drop problem seems to appear when a user touches both of the black lines on the phone's metal sides towards the bottom, according to corroborated users reports.
"Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone," reads an official Apple statement on Thursday.
"If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases," the statement concludes.
Jobs also replied to a few complaints sent to his e-mail inbox. One MacRumors reader asked Jobs what is going to be done about the signal dropping issue, and the Apple CEO replied in his typical brief manner: "Non issue. Just avoid holding it in that way."
Spencer Webb, an antenna designer, explains on his blog that the iPhone 4 has two symmetrical slots in the metal frame, which when covered, will affect antenna performance. "There is no way around this, it's a design compromise that is forced by the requirements of the FCC, AT&T, Apple's marketing department and Apple's industrial designers, to name a few," Webb wrote.
Apple currently sells a $29 rubber "Bumper Case" for the iPhone 4 (pictured above), which covers only the sides of the device, something that made Mashable's Barb Dybwad ask whether this indicates that Apple already knew about the potential reception issues with the phone.
PCWorld also did its own tests of iPhone 4 signal and took the new phone for a spin in San Francisco alongside an iPhone 3GS. PCWorld was able to replicate the signal problems when covering the bottom left edge of the phone, something that did not occur when the phone was laid flat on a table with the antenna untouched.
source:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/199853/apple_responds_to_iphone_4_antenna_problem.html?tk=hp_pop (http://www.pcworld.com/article/199853/apple_responds_to_iphone_4_antenna_problem.html?tk=hp_pop)
Not a great issue to have considering this is primarily a phone.
Quote from: billybob476 on June 25, 2010, 07:33:02 AM
Not a great issue to have considering this is primarily a phone.
.
Sarcasm billybob? =P
Sounds to me there was nothing they could do about it. At least we can get a cheap case that easily solves the problem. N
No not sarcasm really, I mean at the end of the day it's a phone, they didn't HAVE to design the antenna the way they did and you shouldn't be forced to purchase a case just to make the phone...make phone calls. I use my 3G "naked" and that is the way I intend to use my iPhone 4.
I still like the phone but at a certain point function has to take precedence over form. I don't feel that it's good enough for Jobs to say "Just don't hold it like that".
Yeah, this seems like a bit of a mistake to have such a glaring problem on something that is primarily a phone. Oh well, not all phones are perfect I guess.
Come on Bryan - I know you want to say something. ;)
.....1 million sold first day... :)
Quote from: Bryancd on June 25, 2010, 08:39:40 AM
.....1 million sold first day... :)
Ahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahhahaa
Quote from: Bryancd on June 25, 2010, 08:39:40 AM
.....1 million sold first day... :)
Someone also made a million off of pet rocks. High sales does not ever equate to great product. Seems to me like a case of putting out a flawed product and then charging you for the solution. If this wasn't an Apple product, would it be acceptable or a "non-issue"?
The phone part of the iPhone has never quite been it's best feature from what I have heard and read. Partly due to the hardware and also AT&T and their coverage in some areas. Kevin Rose (www.digg.com (http://www.digg.com) founder) who is a pretty die hard Apple fan recently moved to an Android phone. It will be interesting to see if Apple does address this antenna issue. I see iPhone 4gs or 4.1g on the horizon! ;)
For those of you that actually enjoy the iPhone and like free stuff, here's some links you will enjoy. App/game designers have learned that once their product gets placement somewhere in the iTunes list of top 50 apps, they tend to stay on the list and sell exponentially more product than if they were only able to be found through a search. To that end, these companies are using various sites to promote their apps by offering them for free for a limited time and getting them moved up on the list of total downloads. I've gotten in the habit of checking these every morning to see if anything good is available. It's gotten to the point that I haven't bought anything off the app store in a really long time. Recent high quality downloads I've snagged include Puzzle Quest, Tilt to Live, Chop Chop Tennis, Crazy Snowboard, and many more. Check em out, and keep them bookmarked!
http://freegameoftheday.com (http://freegameoftheday.com)
http://www.freeappcalendar.com (http://www.freeappcalendar.com)
http://www.freeappaday.com (http://www.freeappaday.com)
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on June 25, 2010, 10:38:28 AM
For those of you that actually enjoy the iPhone and like free stuff, here's some links you will enjoy. App/game designers have learned that once their product gets placement somewhere in the iTunes list of top 50 apps, they tend to stay on the list and sell exponentially more product than if they were only able to be found through a search. To that end, these companies are using various sites to promote their apps by offering them for free for a limited time and getting them moved up on the list of total downloads. I've gotten in the habit of checking these every morning to see if anything good is available. It's gotten to the point that I haven't bought anything off the app store in a really long time. Recent high quality downloads I've snagged include Puzzle Quest, Tilt to Live, Chop Chop Tennis, Crazy Snowboard, and many more. Check em out, and keep them bookmarked!
http://freegameoftheday.com (http://freegameoftheday.com)
http://www.freeappcalendar.com (http://www.freeappcalendar.com)
http://www.freeappaday.com (http://www.freeappaday.com)
Thanks for that link. :)
As for the iPhone deal, it is because of At&t's not-so-great coverage in my area that it brings pause to me getting an iPhone already.
King
Quote from: Just X on June 25, 2010, 08:53:21 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 25, 2010, 08:39:40 AM
.....1 million sold first day... :)
Someone also made a million off of pet rocks. High sales does not ever equate to great product. Seems to me like a case of putting out a flawed product and then charging you for the solution. If this wasn't an Apple product, would it be acceptable or a "non-issue"?
That's the most absurd analogy I have ever heard. You are seriously comparing an iPhone to a pet rock? High sales, high margins, widespread adoption, a product that has an aspirational component all combine to make it a very successful product. You don't have to like it Chris, and that's fine, but to deny that products like the iPhone, iPad, iPod, iMac are hugely successful and have struck a chord with consumers, well I can't help you there. You can continue to complain, I'll continue to benefit from Apple's success.
Here's an interesting article discussing how many current iPhone owners have just bought the G4 "just because they had to have it."
http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100625/iphone-4-buyers-driven-by-desire-not-need/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_ticker (http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100625/iphone-4-buyers-driven-by-desire-not-need/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_ticker)
Nice camera comparison of some of the top smart phones out there at the link below. Seems the iPhone 4 has a very nice new camera for stills and video.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/199845/smartphone_camera_battle_iphone_4_vs_the_android_army.html?tk=hp_new (http://www.pcworld.com/article/199845/smartphone_camera_battle_iphone_4_vs_the_android_army.html?tk=hp_new)
Quote from: Rico on June 25, 2010, 11:02:30 AM
Nice camera comparison of some of the top smart phones out there at the link below. Seems the iPhone 4 has a very nice new camera for stills and video.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/199845/smartphone_camera_battle_iphone_4_vs_the_android_army.html?tk=hp_new (http://www.pcworld.com/article/199845/smartphone_camera_battle_iphone_4_vs_the_android_army.html?tk=hp_new)
Just the article I was looking for, thanks for the link.
King
not to mention iMovie for video editing right on the phone. Apparently t works quite well.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 25, 2010, 10:49:20 AM
Quote from: Just X on June 25, 2010, 08:53:21 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 25, 2010, 08:39:40 AM
.....1 million sold first day... :)
Someone also made a million off of pet rocks. High sales does not ever equate to great product. Seems to me like a case of putting out a flawed product and then charging you for the solution. If this wasn't an Apple product, would it be acceptable or a "non-issue"?
That's the most absurd analogy I have ever heard. You are seriously comparing an iPhone to a pet rock? High sales, high margins, widespread adoption, a product that has an aspirational component all combine to make it a very successful product. You don't have to like it Chris, and that's fine, but to deny that products like the iPhone, iPad, iPod, iMac are hugely successful and have struck a chord with consumers, well I can't help you there. You can continue to complain, I'll continue to benefit from Apple's success.
Here's an interesting article discussing how many current iPhone owners have just bought the G4 "just because they had to have it."
http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100625/iphone-4-buyers-driven-by-desire-not-need/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_ticker (http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100625/iphone-4-buyers-driven-by-desire-not-need/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_ticker)
I think you just proved my point with your last statement. Just because they have to have it doesn't make it a great product. Don't get me wrong, my first computers were apples and macs. I loved them because they used to be innovative. Not it seems as they are just trading on their name. I don't see anything innovative about their most recent batch of products in comparison to other things on the market.
I simply remember a time when smart people went for the apple product because it was a better product, now it seems that people are going for the latest apple product, not because it's better, but because it's apple.
Quote from: Just X on June 25, 2010, 11:13:04 AM
I simply remember a time when smart people went for the apple product because it was a better product, now it seems that people are going for the latest apple product, not because it's better, but because it's apple.
Man, you realize how condescending that sounds? So anyone who does find innovation and functionality superior in a Apple product when compared to other products is stupid?
I'd argue that on the interface and UI fronts Apple has been quite innovative in recent years. The click wheel and multi touch come to mind. They aren't infallible by any means but you can't deny they have forced their competition to step up their game.
People do tend to be lemmings much of the time. Many just flock with the rest of the people since they don't want to be left behind. I do think it's a pretty nice product but it also has some weaknesses - just like most smart phones out there. I just need a solid phone to make calls for right now and a quick text now and then. And my Samsung is fine for that. Plus it's cheap! Anyway, just my thoughts.
Hype and mass hysteria could explain some initial success, however over the long haul, the quality of the product MUST be there otherwise it will loose it's consumer base. When the iPhone first came out, this argument was made by many here, that it was no better than anything else, whatever. Well, turns out people do feel it's better and they have flocked to it en mass. numbers don't lie. Same thing with the ipod when it cam out, same with the iPad. "In the know" techies can say the vast unwashed are clueless all they want, I laugh at that notion and their hubiris.
I don't really agree Bryan - for a few reasons. One, many have become "locked into" Apple and their iPhone. It's frankly both a pain to switch to another carrier/phone and not real easy. Apple had the advantage because they got out of the gate first and that is a HUGE advantage. We really have seen only a very short time span/cycle so far in the 'smart phone' market/era.
Let me give you an analogy using the car industry. The big three sat on their rear ends for years thinking they were untouchable. So their cars slipped in quality and continued to become more expensive, etc. This allowed other companies to take advantage of this and hurt them badly. It took years, but the playing field has swung each way now and I think we have some nice competition going in the making of cars. I can attest to this after my recent run at driving just about everything in town. And back on the smart phone market, I think Apple has done some smart things, but they have to continue to be smart and address real concerns and issues when they pop up. Google and Android is not to be taken lightly. I truly think in a few more years the smart phone market might look quite a bit different than it does now.
Quote from: billybob476 on June 25, 2010, 11:32:57 AM
I'd argue that on the interface and UI fronts Apple has been quite innovative in recent years. The click wheel and multi touch come to mind. They aren't infallible by any means but you can't deny they have forced their competition to step up their game.
The click wheel has been out since the beginning and hasn't changed much. Also, to address what bryan said about adoption. When you have invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars in downloaded content, most of which can not be used on other systems without paying another fee for the DRM free content, it makes better finical sense to stick with an iproduct. This is why I own both a zune and an Ipod. I have paid for content with both and I'm not quite yet ready to toss that money down the drain.
As for innovation, take the zune for instance. It has both HD radio and wireless sync. Features that would have fit well on the ipod have yet to even be considered. iPod were cutting edge when they came out, but they have rested on their laurels.
So, yeah, I would question how someone can say the iPOD is still being innovative. Not to be mean, but what exactly have they done that was innovative with the iPOD in the last three years?
Multi touch. I can't agree that the click wheel hasn't changed much. Any non-touch screen music player has a substandard clone of the click wheel, Zune included.
How quickly we forget. Ten years ago how many people would have even considered the possibility that they could someday carry their entire music collection around with them in their pocket? Or have every issue of the Amazing Spiderman from 1964 to present day in beautiful full color display in their knapsack? Or 50 of their favorite movies available at the touch of a button on a gorgeous display wherever they happen to be?
Not innovative? Ten years ago all these possibilities were science fiction, friends. And now Apple has made it all available to the masses, at a reasonable price.
Actually, it's not about forgetting, but remembering the facts. Apple did not invent the portable music player, they came into the game several years after others had already began. As to the Spiderman issue, again Marvel has been putting out digital comics long before the ipod, ipad, and iphone hit the market. Ten years ago there were already digital comics and there were mp3 players before the ipod. Apple didn't create the industry. I will give credit where credit is due and say they did a good job with the itunes store. However everything that you give as proof of Apple's innovation was being done by others years ago. or more than a decade in the case of marvel's digital comics.
A year before the debut of the ipod, Creative dropped a 6gig mp3 player, so, not only was it considered possible, it was already possible before the release of the ipod.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the stuff you are talking about as being a pipe dream 10 years ago already existed in some form or another before the I revolution. Apple did make things easier on a lot of non tech savy people, but they did not create the revolution to digital.
Apple created an experience people wanted. END OF STORY. It matters not one bit who invented what, all that matters is who created the device that was intuitive, sexy, popular, that people actually wanted and were able to use right out of the box. Apple is the undisputed king of making technology actually WORK for people who don't car about HOW IT WORKS. :wallbash:
Quote from: Bryancd on June 25, 2010, 02:56:00 PM
Apple created an experience people wanted. END OF STORY. It matters not one bit who invented what, all that matters is who created the device that was intuitive, sexy, popular, that people actually wanted and were able to use right out of the box. Apple is the undisputed king of making technology actually WORK for people who don't car about HOW IT WORKS. :wallbash:
I totally agree with you Bryan. Apple did do those things and they did them well. My disagreement was with Jobydrone on what was possible a decade ago. I also agree that no one has leveraged existing technology into such as sleek package as Apple has done.
My issue, first and foremost, is that I expected far more from apple. Mac SEs had features in the OS that were not standard in windows until Millenium or later. They were doing things 20 years ago that the PC only picked up a decade ago. When everyone was shouting the praises of windows 3.11, I had a custom Mac Desktop with all my alerts done in the voice of HAL.
When my friends were logging onto the BBSes at 300 bps, I was running at a then blazing 2400 bps mac modem. I guess I expect more from Apple than I do from other companies. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Apple, but when you bought an apple product 20 years ago, you paid more, but you also got far more than what was the standard at the time. For me, it seems that you are still paying more, but Apple is no longer decades, years, or even minutes ahead of it's nearest competition.
I am financially invested in the continued ownership of an i device because I have money invested in my iTunes purchases. I would just like to see Apple make something fantastic again. Not in the iPad is cool, but there are already things like it on the market, but in the way that it had people scratching their heads and spending half a decade or more to catch up to Apple.
Again, I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying Bryan, but it seems to me, that at some point in the past decade, Apple lost a step when it comes to creating things for the people that used to buy Apple products.
Quote from: Just X on June 25, 2010, 03:30:48 PM
I totally agree with you Bryan. Apple did do those things and they did them well. My disagreement was with Jobydrone on what was possible a decade ago. I also agree that no one has leveraged existing technology into such as sleek package as Apple has done.
My issue, first and foremost, is that I expected far more from apple. Mac SEs had features in the OS that were not standard in windows until Millenium or later. They were doing things 20 years ago that the PC only picked up a decade ago. When everyone was shouting the praises of windows 3.11, I had a custom Mac Desktop with all my alerts done in the voice of HAL.
When my friends were logging onto the BBSes at 300 bps, I was running at a then blazing 2400 bps mac modem. I guess I expect more from Apple than I do from other companies. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Apple, but when you bought an apple product 20 years ago, you paid more, but you also got far more than what was the standard at the time. For me, it seems that you are still paying more, but Apple is no longer decades, years, or even minutes ahead of it's nearest competition.
I am financially invested in the continued ownership of an i device because I have money invested in my iTunes purchases. I would just like to see Apple make something fantastic again. Not in the iPad is cool, but there are already things like it on the market, but in the way that it had people scratching their heads and spending half a decade or more to catch up to Apple.
Again, I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying Bryan, but it seems to me, that at some point in the past decade, Apple lost a step when it comes to creating things for the people that used to buy Apple products.
See, now I don't understand anything you said in that 2nd and 3rd paragraph and that's the issue. To your sensibility, you see Apple making a product which has been either done before or is executed as well or even better, in your opinion. You can also build your own computer. I can't and don't want to. I want my technology to WORK. I have a job and a family and a sport I spend all my time with and I don't want to have a computer engineering degree to work my personal technology. It's supposed to be FUN and EASY and PRODUCTIVE. Herein lies the genius of what the company has done. The company could NEVER grow catering to the techno elite it sold machines to back in the late '80's and '90's. YOU ARE NOT THE TARGET CONSUMER ANYMORE. I am.
They recognize innovation isn't always being first or making a device loaded with the most advanced technology. That device sits on the shelves. Innovation and what Steve Jobs is targeting is making technology that regular people can actually use. The eco system of iPod, iTunes, iPad, iPhone, and Mac is seamless for the user. The applications and content they provide is EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLE, myself included, WANT. I could care less about the hardware, firmware, ports, blah, blah, blah. I just want it to have the EXPERIENCE be what I expect. And Apple delivers. The other Smartphones? Are they as good or better technically? Maybe but it doesn't matter, Apple provides the content experience. Rico is flat out wrong, the iPhone and the iPhone ecosystem will dominate this market globally for years to come.
So yes, I would consider that a fantastic innovation and application of technology.
Quote from: Just X on June 25, 2010, 02:28:02 PM
Actually, it's not about forgetting, but remembering the facts. Apple did not invent the portable music player, they came into the game several years after others had already began. As to the Spiderman issue, again Marvel has been putting out digital comics long before the ipod, ipad, and iphone hit the market. Ten years ago there were already digital comics and there were mp3 players before the ipod. Apple didn't create the industry. I will give credit where credit is due and say they did a good job with the itunes store. However everything that you give as proof of Apple's innovation was being done by others years ago. or more than a decade in the case of marvel's digital comics.
A year before the debut of the ipod, Creative dropped a 6gig mp3 player, so, not only was it considered possible, it was already possible before the release of the ipod.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the stuff you are talking about as being a pipe dream 10 years ago already existed in some form or another before the I revolution. Apple did make things easier on a lot of non tech savy people, but they did not create the revolution to digital.
well you're right about one thing, fact are facts, and the fact is my iPhone and ipad go everywhere with me now. They are truly the convergence devices that I never knew I even wanted or needed until I had them, and ten years ago I certainly never conceived that such things could even be possible, with my trunk full of CDs, garbage bags full of cassette tapes, cabinets full of LPs, boxes and boxes of comics, and shelves full of VCR tapes and the beginnings of my DVD collection. All my music, all my comics, all my communication (phone and email) and almost all my TV, movie, and Internet consumption is done on these two devices now. And there's some pretty good gaming on them too. Im really not sure what you think could or should be better about these devices that has disappointed you so much. Ive found them both to be well worth their respective costs.
I'm adding my :2cents,
I've been doing a lot of testing for my next phone. While the droid has obvious Hardware niceness to it, the experience with it was just....just not there. With just the basic apps on the phone, it was laggy. How can a 1GHz processor be laggy on it's own home screen with only a couple apps on it?? The phone feels overlycomplicated and has a really funky UI for a phone. I tried using apps on it and browsing the web and it just didn't do what I had hoped. However, there is potential in the Droid, so maybe one day they'll finally figure it out.
I've been using the iPod touch and just love it to death and I've come to the conclusion, same as Bryan, is that it is because of the experience of utalizing these devices. The UI is simply and easy to use, apps are simple to add and sync, email is handled as well as could be asked for, and most of all it is fast, snappy and really good to look at too :P. I said on Twitter a while ago that the iPod touch is the Tech gadget of the decade and I still stand behind that.
I'm even contemplating switching to At&t so I can get the iPhone. So what does that make me, a blind fanboy? I don't think so. I know the flaws and cracks these devices have. (No flash, dictatorship on Apps/Music/etc) Yet what they provide works for me just fine and I've learned to live with it's limitations. I would rather have an enjoyed experience with what I have than a laggy and buggy experience that is often felt with other phones. Heck, the Droid X actually failed to impress me because it shoves a lot into a device that looks like a giant brick. No form and really untested function makes me wary of a device like that.
I've enjoyed Apple's mobile devices hands down because they work, they are snappy in performance, they sync with iTunes and other programs well depending on the function and are just enjoyable to use. No other device has worked so well for me in the past. Now, I will also state that I do not like the Mac Books, sorry, but the Mac OS makes me scream when I use it =P. Windows will hold me there for the time being.
I hate the fact that people say I'm less for using Apple products. It's just a Phone/Tablet. I chose Apple because it works for me where nothing else has. If that's a terrible thing, then so be it. But at least I'm spending my $$ how I see fit. It's not like anyone is actually forcing us to use these products.
King
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on June 25, 2010, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: Just X on June 25, 2010, 02:28:02 PM
Actually, it's not about forgetting, but remembering the facts. Apple did not invent the portable music player, they came into the game several years after others had already began. As to the Spiderman issue, again Marvel has been putting out digital comics long before the ipod, ipad, and iphone hit the market. Ten years ago there were already digital comics and there were mp3 players before the ipod. Apple didn't create the industry. I will give credit where credit is due and say they did a good job with the itunes store. However everything that you give as proof of Apple's innovation was being done by others years ago. or more than a decade in the case of marvel's digital comics.
A year before the debut of the ipod, Creative dropped a 6gig mp3 player, so, not only was it considered possible, it was already possible before the release of the ipod.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the stuff you are talking about as being a pipe dream 10 years ago already existed in some form or another before the I revolution. Apple did make things easier on a lot of non tech savy people, but they did not create the revolution to digital.
well you're right about one thing, fact are facts, and the fact is my iPhone and ipad go everywhere with me now. They are truly the convergence devices that I never knew I even wanted or needed until I had them, and ten years ago I certainly never conceived that such things could even be possible, with my trunk full of CDs, garbage bags full of cassette tapes, cabinets full of LPs, boxes and boxes of comics, and shelves full of VCR tapes and the beginnings of my DVD collection. All my music, all my comics, all my communication (phone and email) and almost all my TV, movie, and Internet consumption is done on these two devices now. And there's some pretty good gaming on them too. Im really not sure what you think could or should be better about these devices that has disappointed you so much. Ive found them both to be well worth their respective costs.
I think Bryan said it best in that Apple has moved to a new target market. I think part of that is due to a person's familiarity with technology. What you see as a good value, I see as extremely overpriced for what they do. I have always like my technology to give me options in things like memory storage and connections.
Like King said, I can see the good and the bad of the iDevices, but the difference is perspective. For me, the lack of a microSD slot is less about some limitation they can't over come and more about forcing you to by a new device for more memory.
Having tested and played with and iPAD, I would say that I love it as a device, but I don't love it at the current price point and lack of ability to add more memory without having to buy a new device. Is it a great device? Yeah, it is, but I don't think it's $500+ great. That's the same reason I don't buy a Kindle. Great device for what it does, but the price point quickly makes it less great to me.
10 years ago for me, I had already adopted DVD (back in 95) and had ripped all my CDs to digital years ago. In the end, I think it all comes down to exposure and tech savy. I think Bryan hit the nail on the head with that too. I don't need and really can't use a device that is so limiting, however good it is.
The features that you like about the iPAD, I had in my iPAQ seven or eight years ago. I could check mail, watch movies, run MS Office, use it as a remote for all of my home electronics, touch screen, expandable memory, bluetooth, foldable keyboard, ect. Granted, they didn't have the screen size or the number of apps that the iPAD has, but it was cool as hell.
I do like the iPAD, but experience has forced me to want more value for my hard earned cash. For people without those experiences, I can see the iPAD being a great value, but if you have some of those early experiences, it just doesn't work the same.
Bryan - did you get an iPad yet? And if not, why not? ;)
Anybody remember good ole MusicMatch? Back in the early 2000s, that was the best online music store there was. And yeah, I played my MP3 and WMA files on Windows Mobile and life was good! Everyting I needed was on my Windows handheld/cell (I've owned quite a few).
And then Apple really did change the game and made the music player sleek and cool and ease to use by non-techies -- Moms, executives, grandparents -- and desired by high schoolers and collegiates.
As a DOS/Windows guy for 'ages', I resisted going to the dark side. As a software engineer, I developed on PCs and only used Macs for word processing and design work. But then MusicMatch got bought by Yahoo and subsequently went belly-up. I had to move to iTunes for good digital music options. So I bought the Video iPod while keeping my Windows Mobile Phone device.
And then the iPhone and the Touch were released. More coolness, ease of adoption/use, and the vision that I could stop carrying around my iPod and Windows Mobile device. So I made the jump to the iPhone. And I have never looked back. The devices just work too well and too seamlessly, with apps that cover the gamut of everything I needed.
My first Mac purchase was for my daughter for college. She has a MacBook and loves it (even though her first reaction was "A Mac? Why?") Now she can't live without it. I still have all PC-based servers and workstations at the house but Mac has breached the beachhead.
The iPad was the final piece of the puzzle. Now I do not even bring along my NetBook (going to sell it to a colleague in fact). I love my 3GS and IPad and they're all I take with me. My wife loves her 3G. She is even considering a his-n-her dual iPhone 4 purchase for our birthdays in August.
I guess my journey to the dark side is complete.
I still use my blackberry and love it :)
Quote from: Blackride on June 26, 2010, 09:27:25 AM
I still use my blackberry and love it :)
Luddite. ;)
I have been an iPhone 3Gs user for about a year now, and I love the device. I also used various Windows phones - specifically the HTC Tilt brand - which could do everything the iPhone can do. What really sold me on the iPhone was the integration with iTunes - and the simplicity of managing music files. Since I used iPods - I had a rather large music library that was cumbersome to import into the HTC device.
The 4G looks great and I want one - but I will hold off until they properly address the antenna issue. I like to be an early adapter, but the pioneers are the ones with all the arrows in their backs.. :)
It's not a '4G' it's a '4'!
Sorry, pet peeve.
I want a 4 too and will probably get one once I decide what network I want to be on (and the networks get more stock!).
I've used PDAs for decades, first Palm and then Windows and now Apple so I'm somewhat insulted by a lot of the above. In my view, while the others can do the same as the iPhone (and more), Palm has been left to rot and Windows takes too much management.
iOS just works which means I actually use the thing where before I would spend hours trying to fine tune it. Call me technically illiterate or whatever you like, that's the way I see it (and make sure you don't fly an aircraft with any of my work in the navigation systems since technically illiterate people like me shouldn't be allowed in technical jobs!;))
Quote from: Feathers on June 26, 2010, 03:48:36 PM
I've used PDAs for decades, first Palm and then Windows and now Apple so I'm somewhat insulted by a lot of the above. In my view, while the others can do the same as the iPhone (and more), Palm has been left to rot and Windows takes too much management.
iOS just works which means I actually use the thing where before I would spend hours trying to fine tune it. Call me technically illiterate or whatever you like, that's the way I see it (and make sure you don't fly an aircraft with any of my work in the navigation systems since technically illiterate people like me shouldn't be allowed in technical jobs!;))
My point exactly, cheers Mike. And if it's any consolation, I'm actually certified technically retarded...I have a paper work attesting to the fact.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 26, 2010, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: Feathers on June 26, 2010, 03:48:36 PM
I've used PDAs for decades, first Palm and then Windows and now Apple so I'm somewhat insulted by a lot of the above. In my view, while the others can do the same as the iPhone (and more), Palm has been left to rot and Windows takes too much management.
iOS just works which means I actually use the thing where before I would spend hours trying to fine tune it. Call me technically illiterate or whatever you like, that's the way I see it (and make sure you don't fly an aircraft with any of my work in the navigation systems since technically illiterate people like me shouldn't be allowed in technical jobs!;))
My point exactly, cheers Mike. And if it's any consolation, I'm actually certified technically retarded...I have a paper work attesting to the fact.
Wait what?
King
Quote from: Feathers on June 26, 2010, 03:48:36 PM
It's not a '4G' it's a '4'!
Sorry, pet peeve.
In my view, while the others can do the same as the iPhone (and more), Palm has been left to rot and Windows takes too much management.
iOS just works which means I actually use the thing where before I would spend hours trying to fine tune it. Call me technically illiterate or whatever you like, that's the way I see it (and make sure you don't fly an aircraft with any of my work in the navigation systems since technically illiterate people like me shouldn't be allowed in technical jobs!;))
D'oh! I stand corrected iPhone 4 - typo on the 4G.
The new Palm's are very slick, but just don't seem to catch the public imagination. I was a Treo 650 user - and was delighted with it - and even have an old original US Robotics Palm around someplace.
Ahh, remember the days of only phones in your home or in those little boxes on the street that Superman changed in? Those were the days! ;)
Smartphone ---pahh! Gimme' one of these..
Walk around town with this and you can hold your head high (Bermuda shorts & block socks & wingtip shoes will add to the effect)
I had the upgrade of that phone! Lol
Kept it in my car for emergencies. The thing weighed a ton for a 'bag phone'.
Yeah baby! Never had dropped calls using those I bet!
Nope! Motorola knew how to make good analog phones back then! WIth good ole Cellular One!
Quote from: Rico on June 27, 2010, 06:12:52 AM
Yeah baby! Never had dropped calls using those I bet!
No, but if you dropped it on your foot you were in trouble! :)
the new Palm looks nice to be fair but it's just too late to market with too little capital behind it. Once you reach the point where you need to sell the first batch in order to finance the manufacture of the second, you must know you're in trouble.
Had I not already moved to Apple then a Pre would now be mine and my views may be different. We'll never know!
Quote from: Bryancd on June 27, 2010, 09:34:19 AM
Quote from: Rico on June 27, 2010, 06:12:52 AM
Yeah baby! Never had dropped calls using those I bet!
No, but if you dropped it on your foot you were in trouble! :)
Hence the wingtips.. :)
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on June 26, 2010, 05:54:51 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 26, 2010, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: Feathers on June 26, 2010, 03:48:36 PM
I've used PDAs for decades, first Palm and then Windows and now Apple so I'm somewhat insulted by a lot of the above. In my view, while the others can do the same as the iPhone (and more), Palm has been left to rot and Windows takes too much management.
iOS just works which means I actually use the thing where before I would spend hours trying to fine tune it. Call me technically illiterate or whatever you like, that's the way I see it (and make sure you don't fly an aircraft with any of my work in the navigation systems since technically illiterate people like me shouldn't be allowed in technical jobs!;))
My point exactly, cheers Mike. And if it's any consolation, I'm actually certified technically retarded...I have a paper work attesting to the fact.
Wait what?
King
Come on King, try and keep up. ;) I'm bad at using technology, not at learning. It's a joke playing off what I said earlier and what Mike said. We really can't stop all these threads in the future to keep you up to speed.... ;)
Quote from: Bryancd on June 27, 2010, 04:41:25 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on June 26, 2010, 05:54:51 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 26, 2010, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: Feathers on June 26, 2010, 03:48:36 PM
I've used PDAs for decades, first Palm and then Windows and now Apple so I'm somewhat insulted by a lot of the above. In my view, while the others can do the same as the iPhone (and more), Palm has been left to rot and Windows takes too much management.
iOS just works which means I actually use the thing where before I would spend hours trying to fine tune it. Call me technically illiterate or whatever you like, that's the way I see it (and make sure you don't fly an aircraft with any of my work in the navigation systems since technically illiterate people like me shouldn't be allowed in technical jobs!;))
My point exactly, cheers Mike. And if it's any consolation, I'm actually certified technically retarded...I have a paper work attesting to the fact.
Wait what?
King
Come on King, try and keep up. ;) I'm bad at using technology, not at learning. It's a joke playing off what I said earlier and what Mike said. We really can't stop all these threads in the future to keep you up to speed.... ;)
A har har har. You so funny. I thought you were being...slightly...serious. *sigh*. In other words that pretty much flew over my head.
Continue thread.
Al sent me a brilliant review of iPhone 4. I hope he posts it here.
1.7 million sold through Saturday, the 26th, making it the single biggest product launch in the companies history.
Found this chart for the first quarter of 2010 (US only, sorry). Interesting how much Microsoft still has of the smart phone market. And I do know many that still love their Blackberry's too. Anyway, I'm sure this will spark some more discussion. ;)
From article:
RIM Still The King
On Friday, June 4, The Nielsen Company released data on the USA Smartphone Market Share for the first quarter of 2010. The release was titled "iPhone vs. Android" aka Apple vs. Google. The pie chart is below yet the first data that jumps out is the RIM Blackberry OS is #`1 with 35% of the market, followed by #2 Apple iPhone OS 28%, then #3 Microsoft Windows Mobile with 19%. Google Android OS is #4 with a mere 9%, still distantly trailing #3 Microsoft.. If there was a pie chart for hype and buzz, then obviously Apple and Google would be in a nose-to-nose race for first place.
The trend has been that RIM is losing market share, and so has Microsoft. Meanwhile Apple and Google have been gaining. Yet, both RIM and Microsoft have substantial shares of the market and a combined 54%. Apple and Google are global giants with devoted followers, a four way battle is in progress as the smartphone revolution proceeds. Google and Apple are gaining, no doubt. There are uncertainties about RIM and how long they will be #1. Microsoft has vast resources, including billions in cash, and should persevere and be #2 by default, behind the eventual #1 Apple. Google still has a long way to go.
Overall, Nielsen states: "As of Q1 '10, Nielsen data shows that 23% of mobile consumers now have a smartphone, up from just 16% in Q2 '09". Every report this year has projected a huge increase in smartphone sales year-to-year in 2010, 2011, and out to 2012, doubling, even tripling current sales. Therefore the stakes are high, and profitable, for all four of the key players.
source:
http://ospreyflyer.blogspot.com/2010/06/usa-smartphone-market-share-q1-2010.html (http://ospreyflyer.blogspot.com/2010/06/usa-smartphone-market-share-q1-2010.html)
A lot of RIM's market share comes from enterprise customers, corporations that have been on the Blackberry system for their employee use. One my initial points to clients about the iPhone when it was introduced was that if Apple could dominate the consumer space, they would begin to make inroads into the enterprise space, which is HUGE. Well, they have succeeded in the consumer space and now many companies are considering or switching over to the iPhone platform. I anticipate that trend to continue in Apple's favor, which will also decrease Microsoft's share percentage. Of course, you also need to consider how powerful it is that Apple makes both the device AND the OS. Remarkable.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 28, 2010, 07:35:38 AM
A lot of RIM's market share comes from enterprise customers, corporations that have been on the Blackberry system for their employee use. One my initial points to clients about the iPhone when it was introduced was that if Apple could dominate the consumer space, they would begin to make inroads into the enterprise space, which is HUGE. Well, they have succeeded in the consumer space and now many companies are considering or switching over to the iPhone platform. I anticipate that trend to continue in Apple's favor, which will also decrease Microsoft's share percentage. Of course, you also need to consider how powerful it is that Apple makes both the device AND the OS. Remarkable.
I highly doubt that the iPhone will make significant inroads in the business sector. For one, the apps that draw people to them would be counter productive to the work environment. Secondly, the durability of the iPhone on the general blue collar worksite is in question. I also know that a huge pull for the blue collar jobs are the cost of the machine and the cost savings of push to talk.
How many outdoor companies or construction companies do you see providing their crews with apps and a touch screen? How many business do you see giving their employees iPhones with time sucking apps? Or employees that will want an iPhone when they can't get any apps on it or it's neutered to prevent the visit to certain sites?
I'll agree that they are doing good in the public sector, but I don't see the iPhone winning over the corporate sector.
I think that the article highly overestimates Microsoft as that mobile software is terrible. Maybe #3, but not #2.
Wow, Chris, you couldn't be more wrong. The PDA biz market is in white collar jobs like my industry of financial services, banking, accounting, legal, and coprorate. I was unaware that construction companies providing their pipe cutters with a smartphone was such a big market, who knew?! LOL! Companies which provide PDA's and smartphones to thier employees can control the content their employees access, just like they do here on my workstation when I access the internet. You can doubt it all you like, but you will be incorrect. 70% of Fortune 100 companies are testing and considering the iPhone as thier smartphone choice. Hosptials and the education market have also been early adopters of iPhone as well as potentially iPad.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterprise/2010/01/a-new-era-for-corporate-cultur.php (http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterprise/2010/01/a-new-era-for-corporate-cultur.php)
As Meds mentioned, I sent him my review of the iPhone 4, of course, just my personal opinion, so take it for what it's worth!
Well, after standing in line for nearly 4 1/2 hours (and yes, we even reserved our phones the week prior) we finally made it to the Apple Store. It was like queueing for the Indiana Jones Adventure ride in Disneyland! When we finally saw the entrance to the store, we felt like we'd been waiting in line for ever and our patience was about to pay off.
When we actually got into the store, our transaction only took about 15 minutes, from purchase to activation. Not bad at all and the folks were great. So, on with the phone....
The new phone is great. I've read and heard on the news of quite a few issues, reception problems because of the antennae band wrapped around the exterior of the phone (the silver wrap you'll see in the photo) and some yellowing of the display. Knock on wood, we've encountered neither of these issues. Restoring the phones once we got home was simple and painless. We just plugged them into our respective iTunes, and about an hour later, all of our data from our old iPhones was now on our iPhone 4's! The display is nothing less than awesome. Crystal clear. It's like going from a VHS tape to Blu Ray. Unbelievable. The OS is fast as well. Must faster and smoother than the previous models.
Some of the new features you probably already have seen since you have iOS4 on your iPhone, but they are all amazing. The multi-tasking is a simple addition, but totally cool. The ability to shoot HD video is great as well, and together with the iMovie app ($4.99 US), it's capable of producing some impressive videos for future video podcasting! Now, the iMovie app isn't as powerful as iMovie on the Mac, but really, that would be a bit of a resource hog if it were. It's competent enough to do an amazing job. The front and back camera's are great as well, in fact, it's hard to imagine digital life without them now! Although the front camera is the Apple standard 3MP, the back is a whopping 5 and it shows.
Now, to the most awesome feature of these new iPhones....Face Time! This is unbelievable cool. My wife and I've been trying it out and it's so fun that you won't want to use a regular webcam again. Basically, it's the future of phone calling - the video call. Star Trek envisioned, Apple makes a reality. Now, Face Time doesn't use your cellular network, so it doesn't use your calling plan minutes, which is cool, but, it completely relies on Wi-Fi, which can be a bit of a hassle if you're not near a hotspot, or your company's Wi-Fi network blocks this port, but still, not bad at all. And, Apple is feverishly working on upgrading the Face Time to run off the cell networks as well. This will most likely tap into your calling minutes, but who cares? As it is, my wife and I never even touch the plan limits, so this would be great.
Just to add to this, my one biggest peeve (besides the dropped calls that seems to be the norm with ATT lately) is that the new phone was advertised with "finger print proof glass"...uh huh. Right. If by finger print proof they mean you'll need to wipe it down 85 times per hour, then they're right! All in all, I like it...
The thing that intrigues me (and Al mentions it again) is the whole load of fuss over dropped calls. Everyone seems to blame the phone but it's something I've never seen so I assume it's really an AT&T issue that is being pushed as a hardware fault. How does it manifest itself?
Quote from: Feathers on June 29, 2010, 01:25:14 AM
The thing that intrigues me (and Al mentions it again) is the whole load of fuss over dropped calls. Everyone seems to blame the phone but it's something I've never seen so I assume it's really an AT&T issue that is being pushed as a hardware fault. How does it manifest itself?
From what I have been now reading they are thinking it's both a software issue AND a hardware issue with the new phone. There is suppose to be an update coming for the OS, but the antenna issue is another matter. Some techs out there seem to be suggested a two antenna system which would basically cross inside the shell and eliminate the "holding your phone in the wrong way" issue. I'm sure they will fix this in a future update.
P.S. Thanks for the great "hands on" review Al. Sounds very cool.
Al which phone did you upgrade from? Did you have a 3GS? I'm wondering how much faster the OS and web browsing is compared to the most current gen model?
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on June 29, 2010, 06:35:09 AM
Al which phone did you upgrade from? Did you have a 3GS? I'm wondering how much faster the OS and web browsing is compared to the most current gen model?
I had the 3G, which was a pretty decent phone, but, I must admit, I'm a bit of an early adopter and jumped on the new one. The phone itself is much faster, and smoother. The display is outstanding. The issue is the lack of service. ATT doesn't serve my home area very well (a fact not disclosed to me when I first signed up...but my bad for not researching) and recently the ONLY tower servicing my area went offline (no proactive information, only reactive). But as far as the phone, I like it a lot. Al
iPhone on Verizon by early next year. You heard it here first. :)
Quote from: Bryancd on June 29, 2010, 04:40:54 PM
iPhone on Verizon by early next year. You heard it here first. :)
I keep hearing this annoying rumor but everyone keeps saying it won't happen. The evidence against it is high. I just can't see Verizon cutting their exclusivity deal with the Droid, to get the iPhone. CMDA tech is apparently out of date, Verizon apparently let the iPhone go originally, and this rumor keeps being heard every year. GAH!
If it's true, would they just come out and say it already?! I do not want to switch to AT&T and then switch right back because these two companies are too effin quiet.
King
That would be nice, but...oh NOOOOO. Locked into ANOTHER 2 years with ATT :(
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on June 29, 2010, 07:39:20 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 29, 2010, 04:40:54 PM
iPhone on Verizon by early next year. You heard it here first. :)
I keep hearing this annoying rumor but everyone keeps saying it won't happen. The evidence against it is high. I just can't see Verizon cutting their exclusivity deal with the Droid, to get the iPhone. CMDA tech is apparently out of date, Verizon apparently let the iPhone go originally, and this rumor keeps being heard every year. GAH!
If it's true, would they just come out and say it already?! I do not want to switch to AT&T and then switch right back because these two companies are too effin quiet.
King
Not sure who "everyone" is but the best analysts on Wall Street I follow who really know Apple and telecom say it's coming in 6=8 months. Apple is actively making a Verizon compatible iPhone.
TRUST ME, I know what I am talking about.
Yeah, I've heard of the CMDA phones being produced. It's just that we've heard this rumor for years. If it's true, I still have some time before my contract expires. So we'll see if the rumors are true then it's just that I'm skeptical.
King
So does this mean their exclusive deal with AT&T is ending soon?
Quote from: Rico on June 30, 2010, 05:48:07 AM
So does this mean their exclusive deal with AT&T is ending soon?
Most likely. Here's the article from the Wall Street Journal discussing it:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304370304575152242601774892.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304370304575152242601774892.html)
And was also picked up by Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-29/verizon-wireless-said-to-start-offering-iphone-ending-at-t-s-exclusivity.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-29/verizon-wireless-said-to-start-offering-iphone-ending-at-t-s-exclusivity.html)
Like I said, this is a lot more than idle fan boy musings, which up until about 6 months ago was all that could be said for Verizon iPhone rumors. Clearly it will be a huge boost to iPhone penetration in the consumer market. The company in the biggest trouble is Research in Motion when this happens. People will ditch their Blackberry's for iPhones.
It would figure though. I just signed a new 2 year jail sentence, er, I mean contract with ATT and now Verizon will get the phone! But, like Bryan said, we've all heard these rumors for years and haven't seen any hard evidence that Verizon will actually get the iPhone. I agree, as addicted as many are to their Crackberry's, I think if the iPhone becomes widely available, they will toss 'em. I just love how the iPhone reminds me of Star Trek - the "Pads" - how appropriate! :)
Hey, on a "I'm sorry to ask a simple question but I'm not that smart" note, how does everyone get the cool images in their signature line? Like Bryancd and Meds has?
Oh, that was a leftover from our Roll Playing Game, that was my character. Don't need that anymore, so it's gone! You can add stuff in your Profile Settings.
My speculation is that AT&T allowed current iPhone owners to upgrade early to the 4G with a 2 year extension in anticipation of Verizon competition next year. It buys them more time.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 30, 2010, 09:13:37 AM
Oh, that was a leftover from our Roll Playing Game, that was my character. Don't need that anymore, so it's gone! You can add stuff in your Profile Settings.
My speculation is that AT&T allowed current iPhone owners to upgrade early to the 4G with a 2 year extension in anticipation of Verizon competition next year. It buys them more time.
Yeah, I have a feeling that if this is all true, AT&T is going to take a nosedive in popularity, especially in areas where they don't do well with reception. Like mine.
Quote from: QuadShot on June 30, 2010, 08:52:38 AM
I agree, as addicted as many are to their Crackberry's, I think if the iPhone becomes widely available, they will toss 'em.
...which will also dovetails nicely into my contention that IT departments of major corporations will be under more pressure to switch over to the iPhone platform, thus greatly expanding their presence in the enterprise space.
As long as they can get some good corporate deals on pricing. I don't car how many app's you have an how nice an interface it is, corporations are not looking to spend more money on their phone plans at this time. PRICE is king!
Quote from: Rico on June 30, 2010, 10:08:38 AM
As long as they can get some good corporate deals on pricing. I don't car how many app's you have an how nice an interface it is, corporations are not looking to spend more money on their phone plans at this time. PRICE is king!
I agree Rico, for the iPhone to get into the Corporate area, it will need better pricing.
Right now iPhone is priced as a premium product, and part of that pricing would be the prestige of owing an Apple product. I dont see Corporations wanting to pay for an Apple Logo, when they can get another phone that does the same thing for less. Plus companies like Blackberry have many different models of phone in many different price ranges, some of them very inexpensive or free. Apple really just offers one Model with a few different versions, with hard drive size being the main difference. I am not sure if Apple could make a lower cost phone, and not even sure if they would want to as that would open up a can of worms for them and go agaisnt the image they have built up with their products of being top quality.
Also many Organizations, such as mine have invested in BES servers. I am not sure if iPhones could be used with those servers or not, but I suspect it would probably be not supported if they did work, and IT departments do not like anything that is unsupported, as that just leads to higher costs.
I don't own a iPhone, so anyone correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the beleif to update the Firmware on an iPhone, you need to use iTunes. Again, I suspect IT departments would not be wanting to run that software on workstations, since it would require being maintained with patching, and be an added expense without providing any business value past updates.
Just my two cents on iPhones in Corporations. Sure, there will be people using them for business, I am just not sure if it will be a default phone in the Corporate space anytime soon.
Oh, the iPhone will never be the largest player in the enterprise space, but right now it's as close to zero as it can get. Do you have any idea what it would mean over the next say 5-7 years if that grew to even just 5%? Massive reveunue increase similar to the growth of the mac biz. When you are only 15% of the world wide PC market, your ability to grow is HUGE. Thta's what makes this company so powerful and wealthy.
Yeah, buying an iPhone for your own personal use is a very easy thing. Getting a company to swing that way is MUCH more complex. Heck, I had to beg to get Firefox on my PC at work. Umm, Mr. IT guy can you please update iTunes for me and sync my phone?? I have donuts. ;)
Quote from: Rico on June 30, 2010, 12:07:26 PM
Yeah, buying an iPhone for your own personal use is a very easy thing. Getting a company to swing that way is MUCH more complex. Heck, I had to beg to get Firefox on my PC at work. Umm, Mr. IT guy can you please update iTunes for me and sync my phone?? I have donuts. ;)
And there is an entrenched hatred towards Apple and pathological love of Microsoft in IT departments around the globe, but times are slowly changing. :)
Quote from: Rico on June 30, 2010, 12:07:26 PM
Yeah, buying an iPhone for your own personal use is a very easy thing. Getting a company to swing that way is MUCH more complex. Heck, I had to beg to get Firefox on my PC at work. Umm, Mr. IT guy can you please update iTunes for me and sync my phone?? I have donuts. ;)
How can anyone stand to use IE anymore. Such a laggy browser. But yeah, Apple certainly has a lot of room to grow and it'll be interesting to see how it all turns out.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on June 30, 2010, 12:44:14 PM
Quote from: Rico on June 30, 2010, 12:07:26 PM
Yeah, buying an iPhone for your own personal use is a very easy thing. Getting a company to swing that way is MUCH more complex. Heck, I had to beg to get Firefox on my PC at work. Umm, Mr. IT guy can you please update iTunes for me and sync my phone?? I have donuts. ;)
Most browsers have their issues and IE really isn't laggy if you have a good connection. I don't use it much, but it takes far fewer resources to use.
How can anyone stand to use IE anymore. Such a laggy browser. But yeah, Apple certainly has a lot of room to grow and it'll be interesting to see how it all turns out.
King
Quote from: Bryancd on June 30, 2010, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: Rico on June 30, 2010, 12:07:26 PM
Yeah, buying an iPhone for your own personal use is a very easy thing. Getting a company to swing that way is MUCH more complex. Heck, I had to beg to get Firefox on my PC at work. Umm, Mr. IT guy can you please update iTunes for me and sync my phone?? I have donuts. ;)
And there is an entrenched hatred towards Apple and pathological love of Microsoft in IT departments around the globe, but times are slowly changing. :)
The same argument can be made with Mac computers as with the iPhone, in that they are more costly then their counterparts. Most PC's and laptops in corporations are of middling quality, neither bottom of the line, but also not packed with great features. Unless you are doing specific graphic work that requires a Mac, why would anyone spend more.
Microsoft has developed a lot of applications for the Enterprise world, the main one being Exchange which seems to be standard in many organizations for email. So with that they have positioned themselves to have a foot in that space. I work with plenty of Microsoft products, and I will freely admit, some of them stink, with Microsoft Sharepoint being at the top of the list for me, and I wish they would get out of that type of product. There might be a bias to some of Microsofts products, as they are common and many people know how to use and support them, that just seems natural.
With enterprise going more and more to cloud computing and web based applications, maybe there will be less Microsoft presence in a few years. For the most part, Apple has been more of a Hardware company, which has made software for their hardware and devices, Microsoft is a Software company, so it is natural for their business to be more diversified. With cloud computing, I would surmise any computer that runs a browser could access the applications. If Apple wants to be more prevalent, cheaper prices of their computers would be in order, or make their OS able to run on other hardware. I think I have read a post you made a year or so back, that being a mass computer builder was never their business(or something along that line, forgive me if I misinterpreted), which I agree. I think they have found themselves a great market right now, not sure why they would want to move more into enterprise at this time, as it seems mostly Software, which does not really fall into what their company produces. I am sure it would be a huge investment to get into more IT based software.
Again just my :2cents :)
Quote from: Bryancd on June 30, 2010, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: Rico on June 30, 2010, 12:07:26 PM
Yeah, buying an iPhone for your own personal use is a very easy thing. Getting a company to swing that way is MUCH more complex. Heck, I had to beg to get Firefox on my PC at work. Umm, Mr. IT guy can you please update iTunes for me and sync my phone?? I have donuts. ;)
And there is an entrenched hatred towards Apple and pathological love of Microsoft in IT departments around the globe, but times are slowly changing. :)
I certainly hope so...no clue WHY so many people are gaa-gaa over Microsoft. Since I've made the switch to Mac, I can't for the life of me recall WHY I hesitated for so long. Mac's are just a more reliable machine, in my opinion of course.
The only real software from Microsoft I have liked is outlook. Word, publisher, PowerPoint are ok, but 07 software is not really that exceptional.
But apple Mac os I don't like that much. Though if I had to, I could switch over to it.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on June 30, 2010, 03:12:20 PM
The only real software from Microsoft I have liked is outlook. Word, publisher, PowerPoint are ok, but 07 software is not really that exceptional.
But apple Mac os I don't like that much. Though if I had to, I could switch over to it.
Office for the Mac is actually pretty good. It's a little more user friendly then Windows Office. I have a small video productions company on the side, so the Mac has been a God send for editing and producing...
Quote from: jedijeff on June 30, 2010, 01:29:26 PM
With enterprise going more and more to cloud computing and web based applications, maybe there will be less Microsoft presence in a few years. For the most part, Apple has been more of a Hardware company, which has made software for their hardware and devices, Microsoft is a Software company, so it is natural for their business to be more diversified. With cloud computing, I would surmise any computer that runs a browser could access the applications. If Apple wants to be more prevalent, cheaper prices of their computers would be in order, or make their OS able to run on other hardware. I think I have read a post you made a year or so back, that being a mass computer builder was never their business(or something along that line, forgive me if I misinterpreted), which I agree. I think they have found themselves a great market right now, not sure why they would want to move more into enterprise at this time, as it seems mostly Software, which does not really fall into what their company produces. I am sure it would be a huge investment to get into more IT based software.
Again just my :2cents :)
Apple will never allow their OS to be run on anything other then their machines. You guys are thinking too broadly. Apple doesn't need to be 45% of the enterprise space like it is in the consumer space. They can be 5%, which would be a couple 100% growth rate in that space and be very profitable to them. As said, I know of many white collar corporations for whom the cache of having iPhones in the hands of their top employees and executives, especially when the CEO's are using one for their personal use and love it, are taking a serious look at the platform. There's a LOT of $ in my industry and others like mine, these are not manufacturing companies or the like for whom cost cutting is rampant. Goldman Sachs, despite their troubles, ain't WalMart, folks. You have no idea how much money financial firms, legal firm, accounting firm make. They have limited number of employees, so again, we are not taking big numbers, but it all go's to Apple's bottom line.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 30, 2010, 04:11:27 PM
Quote from: jedijeff on June 30, 2010, 01:29:26 PM
With enterprise going more and more to cloud computing and web based applications, maybe there will be less Microsoft presence in a few years. For the most part, Apple has been more of a Hardware company, which has made software for their hardware and devices, Microsoft is a Software company, so it is natural for their business to be more diversified. With cloud computing, I would surmise any computer that runs a browser could access the applications. If Apple wants to be more prevalent, cheaper prices of their computers would be in order, or make their OS able to run on other hardware. I think I have read a post you made a year or so back, that being a mass computer builder was never their business(or something along that line, forgive me if I misinterpreted), which I agree. I think they have found themselves a great market right now, not sure why they would want to move more into enterprise at this time, as it seems mostly Software, which does not really fall into what their company produces. I am sure it would be a huge investment to get into more IT based software.
Again just my :2cents :)
Apple will never allow their OS to be run on anything other then their machines. You guys are thinking too broadly. Apple doesn't need to be 45% of the enterprise space like it is in the consumer space. They can be 5%, which would be a couple 100% growth rate in that space and be very profitable to them. As said, I know of many white collar corporations for whom the cache of having iPhones in the hands of their top employees and executives, especially when the CEO's are using one for their personal use and love it, are taking a serious look at the platform. There's a LOT of $ in my industry and others like mine, these are not manufacturing companies or the like for whom cost cutting is rampant. Goldman Sachs, despite their troubles, ain't WalMart, folks. You have no idea how much money financial firms, legal firm, accounting firm make. They have limited number of employees, so again, we are not taking big numbers, but it all go's to Apple's bottom line.
If it's only a handful of people getting the phones for business and more than likely at a discounted rate for bulk, and then them not buying apps or music because it would be on the company's dime, how much would they really be making?
Quote from: Just X on June 30, 2010, 06:30:57 PM
If it's only a handful of people getting the phones for business and more than likely at a discounted rate for bulk, and then them not buying apps or music because it would be on the company's dime, how much would they really be making?
A handful?! You have no idea! Globally, we are talking tens of millions. By the way, PSA, if you are invested in the market currently and have the aiblity to move to cash, I would do so right away. Trouble is coming, cash and short term bonds are king. Maybe a little gold via the GLD.
"....Greed is....good!" :)
Quote from: Bryancd on June 30, 2010, 07:50:46 PM
Quote from: Just X on June 30, 2010, 06:30:57 PM
If it's only a handful of people getting the phones for business and more than likely at a discounted rate for bulk, and then them not buying apps or music because it would be on the company's dime, how much would they really be making?
A handful?! You have no idea! Globally, we are talking tens of millions. By the way, PSA, if you are invested in the market currently and have the aiblity to move to cash, I would do so right away. Trouble is coming, cash and short term bonds are king. Maybe a little gold via the GLD.
Woah, you can't drop a PSA like that and not elaborate. How bad is it going to be and how soon should we think about moving it? Between my father and aunts, the family has investments in the eight digits. SHould I be warning them?
Quote from: Just X on June 30, 2010, 09:10:31 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 30, 2010, 07:50:46 PM
Quote from: Just X on June 30, 2010, 06:30:57 PM
If it's only a handful of people getting the phones for business and more than likely at a discounted rate for bulk, and then them not buying apps or music because it would be on the company's dime, how much would they really be making?
A handful?! You have no idea! Globally, we are talking tens of millions. By the way, PSA, if you are invested in the market currently and have the ability to move to cash, I would do so right away. Trouble is coming, cash and short term bonds are king. Maybe a little gold via the GLD.
Woah, you can't drop a PSA like that and not elaborate. How bad is it going to be and how soon should we think about moving it? Between my father and aunts, the family has investments in the eight digits. Should I be warning them?
Yes, technically the market has broken down and I think the S&P could fall another 10% from here and unless we see major job creation on Fridays employment data, I think a double dip recsession is back on the table. And be very worried about sovereign debt issue's in Europe affecting the global economy. The E's biggest trading partner is China, and if China looses that, then they are in trouble as well. This isn't over yet, unfortunately.
Well, remember...it IS the time of the Gathering, when the few who remain will battle to the LAST!...And our last two immortals are: Steve Jobs and Bill Gates! :)
Quote from: QuadShot on July 01, 2010, 07:44:20 AM
Well, remember...it IS the time of the Gathering, when the few who remain will battle to the LAST!...And our last two immortals are: Steve Jobs and Bill Gates! :)
Why would I not be surprised if those two weren't immortals/Gods/vampires?!
:roflmao
King
It seems Apple now is being sued over the antenna issue.
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2010, 09:40:46 AM
It seems Apple now is being sued over the antenna issue.
Umm......why? That seems really silly to me.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on July 01, 2010, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2010, 09:40:46 AM
It seems Apple now is being sued over the antenna issue.
Umm......why? That seems really silly to me.
When you sell a defective product and also sell the solution to that defect from day 1, consumers will be upset. It shows they knew of a problem that they then decided to charge you more to fix.
Quote from: Just X on July 01, 2010, 10:43:51 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on July 01, 2010, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2010, 09:40:46 AM
It seems Apple now is being sued over the antenna issue.
Umm......why? That seems really silly to me.
When you sell a defective product and also sell the solution to that defect from day 1, consumers will be upset. It shows they knew of a problem that they then decided to charge you more to fix.
I really never thought that the case was the "solution". Can they really prove Apple knew about the problem before hand? Also, not all phones seem to have the problem, so it seems to be a quirk. Idk, this just seems really...really.......off. I just don't see this actually going anywhere.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on July 01, 2010, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2010, 09:40:46 AM
It seems Apple now is being sued over the antenna issue.
Umm......why? That seems really silly to me.
x2, it's such a joke. People tried to sue saying their iPods exploded as well. This will go absolutely nowhere just like every other "lawsuit" some law firm cooks up to make a name for themselves. Watch and see. Figure there are likely almost 2 million 4G iPhones in consumer hands right now. If this issue was so problematic and widespread, Apple stores would be flooded with people returning them. They are not. So what does that tell you about the veracity of these complaints? Widespread defective product or marginal issue only a handful of people seem to be experiencing?
People also tired to sue over battery life issue's with iPod and iPhone.
Well, I hate to put a negative note on this, cuz,I DO love the iPhone and Apple. As I mentioned earlier, I switched to an iMac last year and it was the best decision I've made (aside of course from marrying my wife:)). HOWEVER...my wife and I are both going to the Apple store this evening because we've been experiencing a lot of call issues. Non-connectivity, poor reception, etc. I am frustrated, but honestly, what can I say? We all know that new techie devices are problematic at first. There are always bugs to work out...just say Windows Vista! It's my own fault for NEEDING to be an early adopter. Hopefully our appointment today will result in something more than a rubber band wrapped around the metal. Wow. I really, really like the iPhone 4, I'm just not happy with the phone part of the iPhone 4 at the moment!
That sucks Alan, and I hope they can resolve it. I know a bunch of people who have had zero issue's, so it does appear to be random in nature, let us know it goes, I would be curious to hear about customers in store experiences with any issue's, the stores are amazing points of customer contact which are very important to Apple.
By the way, which store are you going to, the Camelback and 24th or Scottsdale?
Yeah, one of my wife's co-workers just bought an iPhone 4 from Best Buy and has no issues. It is spotty. We're going to the Arrowhead store. A little closer to work...Al
This isn't a non-issue or made up problem. It has been verified in independent labs and Apple has admitted it's an issue. But there are variables - such as how you grip the device and of course the signal strength in your area. I know I wouldn't be happy if I bought one and it had this problem. Especially with the contract commitment you make. I'm sure it will get resolved - eventually.
Rico...I think I'm swinging in the favor of returning...Remember, I'm a huge iPhone fan, but I am now having so many problems with the cellular AND the amazing Face Time feature that it's almost not worth the money any more. I mean, I have in my hands a $300 32gb iPod basically. I am pretty disappointed in Apple for putting this on the market. Oh, I understand WHY they did, but I'm very disappointed. You're right, it is a verified problem. The frustrating thing is that not EVERY phone has it. Why? I mean, if it's a flaw in the design, why not every unit? I'm not tech savvy that way, so I'm truly baffled by this. Al
If you have the ability to return it without a penalty, I would. Too much money and commitment to not be 100% satisfied. I really think they will fix this and start making iPhone 4.1 very soon.
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2010, 01:09:59 PM
This isn't a non-issue or made up problem. It has been verified in independent labs and Apple has admitted it's an issue. But there are variables - such as how you grip the device and of course the signal strength in your area. I know I wouldn't be happy if I bought one and it had this problem. Especially with the contract commitment you make. I'm sure it will get resolved - eventually.
No, for sure, just like the problems they had with battery life. That effected the majority of the later generation iPods and initially that was a concern, voiced around here about the iPhone. From what I understand as I don't own one, the battery longevity has been greatly improved, What's a non-issue is the lawsuit. That's kind of quickie class action stuff is nonesense.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 01, 2010, 11:34:41 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on July 01, 2010, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2010, 09:40:46 AM
It seems Apple now is being sued over the antenna issue.
Umm......why? That seems really silly to me.
x2, it's such a joke. People tried to sue saying their iPods exploded as well. This will go absolutely nowhere just like every other "lawsuit" some law firm cooks up to make a name for themselves. Watch and see. Figure there are likely almost 2 million 4G iPhones in consumer hands right now. If this issue was so problematic and widespread, Apple stores would be flooded with people returning them. They are not. So what does that tell you about the veracity of these complaints? Widespread defective product or marginal issue only a handful of people seem to be experiencing?
People also tired to sue over battery life issue's with iPod and iPhone.
The iPhone battery suit wasn't about battery life, but about battery replacement. Apple failed to disclose that it would cost money to replace the battery and you couldn't do it yourself like you can on almost every other phone in existence.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 01, 2010, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2010, 01:09:59 PM
This isn't a non-issue or made up problem. It has been verified in independent labs and Apple has admitted it's an issue. But there are variables - such as how you grip the device and of course the signal strength in your area. I know I wouldn't be happy if I bought one and it had this problem. Especially with the contract commitment you make. I'm sure it will get resolved - eventually.
No, for sure, just like the problems they had with battery life. That effected the majority of the later generation iPods and initially that was a concern, voiced around here about the iPhone. From what I understand as I don't own one, the battery longevity has been greatly improved, What's a non-issue is the lawsuit. That's kind of quickie class action stuff is nonesense.
Huh?! Apple's most vocal supporter doesn't have the iPhone or the iPad? Is there a reason? I mean if we go by posts, you make the iStuff seem better than sliced bread. Care to take the stand and testify why not?
Quote from: Just X on July 01, 2010, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on July 01, 2010, 11:34:41 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on July 01, 2010, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2010, 09:40:46 AM
It seems Apple now is being sued over the antenna issue.
Umm......why? That seems really silly to me.
x2, it's such a joke. People tried to sue saying their iPods exploded as well. This will go absolutely nowhere just like every other "lawsuit" some law firm cooks up to make a name for themselves. Watch and see. Figure there are likely almost 2 million 4G iPhones in consumer hands right now. If this issue was so problematic and widespread, Apple stores would be flooded with people returning them. They are not. So what does that tell you about the veracity of these complaints? Widespread defective product or marginal issue only a handful of people seem to be experiencing?
People also tired to sue over battery life issue's with iPod and iPhone.
The iPhone battery suit wasn't about battery life, but about battery replacement. Apple failed to disclose that it would cost money to replace the battery and you couldn't do it yourself like you can on almost every other phone in existence.
That's right, thank you, I stand corrected. But still, class action lawsuits like that really are frivolous.
Quote from: Just X on July 01, 2010, 02:09:13 PM
Huh?! Apple's most vocal supporter doesn't have the iPhone or the iPad? Is there a reason? I mean if we go by posts, you make the iStuff seem better than sliced bread. Care to take the stand and testify why not?
That's old news! I've mentioned it at some point in nearly every Apple thread we have had over the years! Ask Rico. I own an iPod, a Nano from 2 years ago, and I have a iMac here at home. I have always had Mac computers. I do not have an iPhone because I really don't need one and I am on Verizon. When I had the opportunity to switch, at the end of the day I realized I wouldn't get a lot of use out of it for either my work or personal life. Outside of work, I spend 13-15 hours per week training and racing triathlon's. I never even get a chance to play cool video games, so no X-Box or Playstation. That's my hobby and it takes a lot of time. I don't travel for work and to be honest, don't like being THAT connected all the time. Now, I do want an iPad and will get one next year assuming they add a camera. An iPad is PERFECT for me for around the house or on vacation traveling.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 01, 2010, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: Just X on July 01, 2010, 02:09:13 PM
Huh?! Apple's most vocal supporter doesn't have the iPhone or the iPad? Is there a reason? I mean if we go by posts, you make the iStuff seem better than sliced bread. Care to take the stand and testify why not?
That's old news! I've mentioned it at some point in nearly every Apple thread we have had over the years! Ask Rico. I own an iPod, a Nano from 2 years ago, and I have a iMac here at home. I have always had Mac computers. I do not have an iPhone because I really don't need one and I am on Verizon. When I had the opportunity to switch, at the end of the day I realized I wouldn't get a lot of use out of it for either my work or personal life. Outside of work, I spend 13-15 hours per week training and racing triathlon's. I never even get a chance to play cool video games, so no X-Box or Playstation. That's my hobby and it takes a lot of time. I don't travel for work and to be honest, don't like being THAT connected all the time. Now, I do want an iPad and will get one next year assuming they add a camera. An iPad is PERFECT for me for around the house or on vacation traveling.
That makes sense, but I honestly didn't know. I played with the iPAD a little more a few days ago and decided that for what I want I'm going to go with the Evolution Edge. I couldn't really read the iPAD in bright sunlight and having a reader side and letting it fold to protect the screens sold me. It's using Droid, but I think that Google has the money to keep supporting the OS for some time.
enTourage eDGe™ Specifications
Dimensions: 8.25" x 10.75" by 1.0" (closed)
Weight: approx. 3 lbs.
Internal Memory: 4 GB (3 GB for user)
E-reader File Formats: ePub, PDF
LCD Touchscreen Display Size: 1024 x 600 (10.1")
E-paper Display Size: 9.7" e-Ink®(1200 x 825), 8 shades of gray
E-paper Input: Wacom® Penabled®
Operating System: Linux with Google® Android®
Screen Rotation: 90 and 180 degrees
Connectivity: WiFi 802.11 b/g, Bluetooth capability
Battery Life: 16+ hours utilizing the e-reader screen / up to 6 hours running the LCD screen
Battery Type: Lithium-ion polymer
External Memory: SD card slot, 2 USB ports
Audio and Microphone Jack: 3.5 mm each. Includes internal microphone and speakers.
Audio playback: MP3, WAV, 3GPP, MP4, AAC, OGG, M4A
Video playback: 3GP, MP4, Adobe Flash Lite (H.264)
Input: Stylus input on e-paper and touchscreen. Virtual keyboard. USB keyboard (optional)
At this point, I'm just glad I'm waiting because I have the perfect opportunity for these two smartphone giants to duke it out, figure their crap out and then when Christmas comes, I'll get what seems best. It's too bad the EVO is for Sprint only, that phone might actually be a good one to get.
And btw, I don't own an iPad or iPhone either, that a bad thing? (3rd gen iPod touch)
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on July 01, 2010, 04:20:41 PM
And btw, I don't own an iPad or iPhone either, that a bad thing? (3rd gen iPod touch)
King
No, it makes you a Luddite like me. :)
Ok...I've completed my visit to the Apple store and this is what was accomplished...I walked out with a $20 "bumper" and a "sort of " fix. I of course, went in armed. I had done some research this afternoon and discovered a few things. First, there's a good possibility that the new operating system (iOS4) may be contributing to the problem of reception. AND...not only the steel band around the unit, but the actual SIM card may be causing some of the issue. It seems that the SIM card is now encased in a steel slider unit, whereas all previous models had plastic. Well, the SIM cards have a tendency to make contact with the metal slider unit, which in turn butts against the metal antennae band which "shorts out the reception". This makes sense. So, from many articles on the internet, the fix is to remove the SIM card and reinstall it. So, armed with this information, I confronted the "Genius" who, to be fair, was a nice guy, and let him tell us what the deal was. He was honest, that Apple hasn't really come up with a viable solution yet, but the bumper does work well. He demonstrated it to us on his personal iPhone4. I mentioned the SIM card idea and he agreed, and said he actually had performed this trick on his as well. So, we had him remove the SIM cards and reposition them in the slider, then reinsert. We also purchased the bumpers (we get a pretty decent corporate discount, so it wasn't too bad) and honestly, so far...so good. Our reception has increased. We'll try out the Facetime function tomorrow to see if that improved.
I made it very plain to him that if this didn't work, I was not going to keep the phone and he agreed. He indicated that if we have failed service we need to return them for a FULL REFUND (within 30 days of purchase of course). I'll keep you updated if ya'll want....Al
Hmmm, and here I am having just discovered some local stock, contemplating going and getting one. What to do...
Al -
Sounds like you did pretty well at the Apple store. Like I said several posts back and you mentioned, it is both a hardware and software issue. And Apple is quite aware of it (and has been aware of it). This again is where some of the vaunted Apple style has worked against functionality. See the thing for me with any cell phone is the PHONE part comes first. I want good, solid phone service above all else (even "Angry Bird" apps). Most people seem to accept bad reception and dropped calls. I don't accept that. I hope you continue to have good results with the 'fixes' provided.
On my 3GS I have had connectivity issues (dropped calls) increase and poor connection on the 3g network ever since iOS 4 dropped as well, so I have to wonder if these so called antenna issues don't have more to do with the increased traffic, AT&T, and bugs with the new OS.
Quote from: Rico on July 02, 2010, 04:46:25 AM
Al -
Sounds like you did pretty well at the Apple store. Like I said several posts back and you mentioned, it is both a hardware and software issue. And Apple is quite aware of it (and has been aware of it). This again is where some of the vaunted Apple style has worked against functionality. See the thing for me with any cell phone is the PHONE part comes first. I want good, solid phone service above all else (even "Angry Bird" apps). Most people seem to accept bad reception and dropped calls. I don't accept that. I hope you continue to have good results with the 'fixes' provided.
I guess I take it for granted my BB on Verizon never drops?
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on July 02, 2010, 06:10:18 AM
On my 3GS I have had connectivity issues (dropped calls) increase and poor connection on the 3g network ever since iOS 4 dropped as well, so I have to wonder if these so called antenna issues don't have more to do with the increased traffic, AT&T, and bugs with the new OS.
I have a friend with a 3G who is having that issue as well since upgrading to the new OS, so there's defiantly a software issue they can address.
Here's Apple's open letter to iPhone users regarding part of the software issue:
Dear iPhone 4 Users,
The iPhone 4 has been the most successful product launch in Apple's history. It has been judged by reviewers around the world to be the best smartphone ever, and users have told us that they love it. So we were surprised when we read reports of reception problems, and we immediately began investigating them. Here is what we have learned.
To start with, gripping almost any mobile phone in certain ways will reduce its reception by 1 or more bars. This is true of iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, as well as many Droid, Nokia and RIM phones. But some users have reported that iPhone 4 can drop 4 or 5 bars when tightly held in a way which covers the black strip in the lower left corner of the metal band. This is a far bigger drop than normal, and as a result some have accused the iPhone 4 of having a faulty antenna design.
At the same time, we continue to read articles and receive hundreds of emails from users saying that iPhone 4 reception is better than the iPhone 3GS. They are delighted. This matches our own experience and testing. What can explain all of this?
We have discovered the cause of this dramatic drop in bars, and it is both simple and surprising.
Upon investigation, we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong. Our formula, in many instances, mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength. For example, we sometimes display 4 bars when we should be displaying as few as 2 bars. Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don't know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars. Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place.
To fix this, we are adopting AT&T's recently recommended formula for calculating how many bars to display for a given signal strength. The real signal strength remains the same, but the iPhone's bars will report it far more accurately, providing users a much better indication of the reception they will get in a given area. We are also making bars 1, 2 and 3 a bit taller so they will be easier to see.
We will issue a free software update within a few weeks that incorporates the corrected formula. Since this mistake has been present since the original iPhone, this software update will also be available for the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 3G.
We have gone back to our labs and retested everything, and the results are the same— the iPhone 4's wireless performance is the best we have ever shipped. For the vast majority of users who have not been troubled by this issue, this software update will only make your bars more accurate. For those who have had concerns, we apologize for any anxiety we may have caused.
As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.
We hope you love the iPhone 4 as much as we do.
Thank you for your patience and support.
Apple
Hmm, what a twist?
Sorry, it doesn't jive with the independent lab tests or cover dropped calls. I mean come on, signal bar display? Doesn't matter what that reads - poor reception is poor reception. And they are glossing over the antenna issue. Many other phones use a 2 antenna system to compensate for this problem in gripping their devices. This isn't over, but like I've said before I've heard many people complain about iPhones dropped calls and poor service in some areas in the past. But for many, it doesn't seem to make them want to give up all those apps. I mean who uses an iPhone for calls anyway? ;)
Yeah, I agree with Rico. Bryan, where did you get that letter? And I have to aggressively disagree with their statement that gripping the phone the wrong way will decrease signal integrity...ah, guys...I RARELY hold my phone when I talk. I usually use the included headphones, or my the bluetooth device in my car. So I guess THAT theory is shot...
** Update on my issue - while I have noticed some increase in realiability, the problem persists. I am currently at work, right about the center of Phoenix, and was on 2 calls that just dropped. Boom! I AM using the bumper and had the SIM repositioned. Whereas my reception is a "tad" better, we're still dropping calls. It would be nice to believe that an OS update will cure this problem, but I can't see how that could solve a possible hardware/design defect. ** :P
Quote from: QuadShot on July 02, 2010, 10:07:59 AM
Yeah, I agree with Rico. Bryan, where did you get that letter? And I have to aggressively disagree with their statement that gripping the phone the wrong way will decrease signal integrity...ah, guys...I RARELY hold my phone when I talk. I usually use the included headphones, or my the bluetooth device in my car. So I guess THAT theory is shot...
** Update on my issue - while I have noticed some increase in realiability, the problem persists. I am currently at work, right about the center of Phoenix, and was on 2 calls that just dropped. Boom! I AM using the bumper and had the SIM repositioned. Whereas my reception is a "tad" better, we're still dropping calls. It would be nice to believe that an OS update will cure this problem, but I can't see how that could solve a possible hardware/design defect. ** :P
Could be an AT&T issue which would be out of Apple's hands.
Just sayin
King
Quote from: QuadShot on July 02, 2010, 10:07:59 AM
Yeah, I agree with Rico. Bryan, where did you get that letter? And I have to aggressively disagree with their statement that gripping the phone the wrong way will decrease signal integrity...ah, guys...I RARELY hold my phone when I talk. I usually use the included headphones, or my the bluetooth device in my car. So I guess THAT theory is shot...
** Update on my issue - while I have noticed some increase in realiability, the problem persists. I am currently at work, right about the center of Phoenix, and was on 2 calls that just dropped. Boom! I AM using the bumper and had the SIM repositioned. Whereas my reception is a "tad" better, we're still dropping calls. It would be nice to believe that an OS update will cure this problem, but I can't see how that could solve a possible hardware/design defect. ** :P
I would return it and wait for the update before buying a new one. I have a sneaky feeling that the update won't be out until after the 30 day mark for the early adopters.
Keep in mind, as I mentioned above, I have a friend with a 3G which has never had any issue's but is now as soon as he updated to the new OS, so clearly there is soemthing amiss with the software that is causing connectivity issues and data drops and slow functionality, according to him.
Bryan,
Oh yes, I agree with you there. I think the iOS4 is certainly a problem. I loaded that on my 3G and my wife's 3G before we bought the iPhone 4's, and we started having problems we never had before...Man...can't we just have EVERYTHING we want? :)
Really? So far I haven't had any problems with iOS4 on my 3Gs. The only thing that annoyed me was that my background wallpaper got changed after the upgrade to some annoying water drops.
Quote from: Bromptonboy on July 02, 2010, 03:50:55 PM
Really? So far I haven't had any problems with iOS4 on my 3Gs. The only thing that annoyed me was that my background wallpaper got changed after the upgrade to some annoying water drops.
You can change it in settings.
You see I've only ever heard of all this dropped call stuff from the US. It's never been reported over here that I've heard so I've always believed it to be an AT&T issue. It's certainly not an O2 issue.
There's too much mud in this water to see clearly what's going on yet Apple squarely take the blame for it all. Even here, no-one 'knows' what the problem is yet ewryones happy to offer advice based on their own biases and assumptions.
I agree that the Apple letter looks a little out of place with the problem but let's at least see what goes on before jumping to too many more confusions (sic).
Feathers, do you think that maybe the new OS is conflicting with ATT hardware? Maybe like trying to run Windows 7 on a PC manufactured in 2000? I was wondering this myself...
I've been having a few little random issues since the OS update. This morning my battery showed in the red even thought my phone had been charging all night. Had to soft reset and it started working again. Also occasionally the iPod app crashes to home screen, just need to open it again and it works but I have NEVER had any issues with the basic Apple apps before.
Here's the thing that's nagging at me still. How did they miss this and if it is at least partially software related why isn't it patched yet? I still think a big part of it is hardware and they are "white washing" it with talk of signal bars and software fixes. They want to wait a few weeks so everyone will be past their 30 days and then find out it still isn't resolved. At least that's my theory.
Quote from: QuadShot on July 06, 2010, 08:30:13 AM
Feathers, do you think that maybe the new OS is conflicting with ATT hardware? Maybe like trying to run Windows 7 on a PC manufactured in 2000? I was wondering this myself...
There shouldn't be any ATT hardware, it should all be Apple hardware. Most phones are universal unless they are locked and it's not any real network hardware.
Quote from: Rico on July 06, 2010, 09:35:28 AM
Here's the thing that's nagging at me still. How did they miss this and if it is at least partially software related why isn't it patched yet? I still think a big part of it is hardware and they are "white washing" it with talk of signal bars and software fixes. They want to wait a few weeks so everyone will be past their 30 days and then find out it still isn't resolved. At least that's my theory.
I totally agree with you Rico. It's a ploy to wait out the return dates. Stocks would take a nose dive if everyone returned their phones. My problem with it is the lack of logic behind it. They are talking about rewriting the code to make the bars change. This will eaither make the whole ATT network seem like a two bar desert, or it will mask the flaw in the phone's connectivity by placing it on the shoulders of the network.
What it doesn't do is address the problem that people are having with the phones.
That's completely incorrect. They don't need to have a "ploy" and any effort to act in anything other than good faith for their customers opens them up to liability. Really, this is ugly rumor mongering. Apple has NEVER managed their business based upon their stock price at any given moment. If you actually followed the company for as long as I have and understood more about what equity and enterprise value really are all about, how markets determine share pricing, and looked back on any number of issues the company has gone through (most notably Steve Job's health leave of absence), the company has always acted in good faith towards it's shareholders.
Clearly they are working on resolving the problems people have had but to characterize it as a stall tactic to push people beyond their warranties is very unfair.
By the way, the S&P is down another 5% from my June 30th PSA warning about the market and it's still got ways to go.
I agree with Bryan. Apple has never struck me as a company that "has a ploy". That has never been really reflective of their products which have always done well. This is simply a new transition period they are going through and there are always rough spots with companies. With ANY companies it has always been this way.
King
On the dropped calls thing, I think I'm probably erring to the side of blaming the network rather than the hardware. I can't say I've looked into other countries to see if the same is occurring but with iPhone on every network over here, I'm just not hearing anything.
Whether iPhone 4 hardware is more susceptible than others or something in the OS trips over a compatibility issue of some sort, I can't say. I guess it's possible but I'm not sure how likely.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703636404575353143173830712.html?mod=igoogle_wsj_gadgv1& (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703636404575353143173830712.html?mod=igoogle_wsj_gadgv1&)
Looks like the network (Alcatel switches) are partly responsible.
This is still mainly an antenna issue - and time is running out.
Apple support staffers are confirming to customers what the company itself does not appear anxious to admit—the forthcoming firmware update for iPhone 4 won't fix the device's finicky antenna....
http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/portable/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=225702779&subSection=News (http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/portable/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=225702779&subSection=News)
And this is a great read....
iPhone 4 Customers Have Limited Time and Limited Options
The Apple iPhone revolutionized the smartphone market and has succeeded in breaking down barriers with the IT department and becoming an accepted part of the network and communications environment at many companies. Businesses that embraced the new iPhone 4, though, are faced with a handicapped device and a ticking clock to decide what to do about it.
People who read this also read:The nearly two million iPhone 4 users have a long list of seriously debilitating issues with the new smartphone. While Apple continues to come up with ludicrous justifications and ridiculous recommendations, customers are waiting for an actual solution. Users can return the iPhone 4 for a full refund, but the clock is ticking and the options are limited.
It seems like just yesterday that Apple was a paragon of customer service, and a shining example of how to create a culture of devices with exceptional customer experience--devices that "just work". Oh wait. It was just yesterday.
Now, Apple either believes it really is magic, or that its users are just that dumb, or both--because the response so far to the iPhone 4 issues amounts to trying the Jedi mind trick on customers and attempting to convince users there are no issues or that the concerns are being exaggerated.
The official Apple response to the iPhone 4 antenna issue was originally "Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone."
When that explanation failed to appease the disgruntled masses, Apple did some further investigating and determined that the real signal is fine, but the way iOS calculates and displays the signal strength bars has been wrong for years.
Apple issued a statement saying "Upon investigation, we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong. Our formula, in many instances, mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength. For example, we sometimes display 4 bars when we should be displaying as few as 2 bars. Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don't know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars. Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place."
Both of these statements are true (I assume it's true that there is some problem with signal strength calculation), yet ridiculous at the same time. Yes, it's true based on the physics of antennas that holding the device is bound to affect or attenuate the signal--and that holds true for all smartphones. However, it is only the iPhone 4 that has such an issue with these basic laws of physics that it no longer functions as a phone--so apparently the iPhone 4 has a design flaw that doesn't exist in other smartphones.
Assuming that it's true that Apple has miscalculated signal strength for years, that is neither an explanation for the current problem, nor is fixing it a solution for the issues with the iPhone 4. Estimates suggest that nearly 80 percent of the iPhone 4 users upgraded from a previous iPhone model. Those 1.3 million iPhone 4 users were already subject to this alleged miscalculation for years, yet never noticed a problem until switching to the iPhone 4.
With my iPhone 3GS, I used to sometimes get annoyed at how I had to pull the phone away from my ear, and give it a shake to get the display to light up again if I had to enter a code to join a conference call or "press two" for customer service. Now, I long for that experience because instead I have a dysfunctional proximity sensor that enables and disables the display--creating a slow motion strobe effect throughout my calls--and resulting in random buttons being pressed, like turning on speakerphone, or hanging up the call without notice.
Apparently, one Apple Genius explained to an iPhone 4 customer that the problem is with his ear--not the proximity sensor on the iPhone 4. A blogger reported that he was informed that "Apparently, the re-location of the proximity sensor in iPhone 4 causes the sensor to be more likely to be triggered by light 'bouncing around the ear canal'."
The recommended solution? The Apple Genius told the blogger--allegedly with a straight face--"try closing the windows because extra ambient light bouncing around my ear will cause the sensor to light up the screen."
So--to sum up--the iPhone 4 does not have a signal issue, it just displays the signal bar icons wrong, but if you hold the iPhone 4 at just the right angle you might be able to maintain enough signal strength to carry on a call. But, make sure you don't clean your ears too often, and draw the curtains and turn off the lights or your ear might trip the proximity sensor and cause you to inadvertently hang up the call.
I haven't even addressed the exceptionally poor sound quality of calls on the iPhone 4, or the complaints of poor battery life spanning the iPhone 4, previous iPhone models, and iPod Touch devices following the upgrade to iOS4.
Can I just have my old iPhone 3GS back? Well, yes--but only if I act quickly. Apple has responded to the backlash and various law suits by dropping the restocking fee. Any iPhone 4 customer can return the iPhone 4 for a complete refund--as long as it is within 30 days of purchase. For those who purchased the iPhone 4 online, that clock started when the device was shipped, not when you received it and took it out of the box.
The problem is that returning to the iPhone 3GS is really the only viable option available at AT&T. The Android options are improving at AT&T, but are still notably inferior to the compelling Android smartphones available from other carriers. The HTC Aria is a step in the right direction, but AT&T won't have a truly competitive Android smartphone until it unleashes the Samsung Captivate later this year.
Besides, switching platforms is not that easy. What Apple understood, and other mobile OS developers have followed suit on, is that the app culture shackles you to the platform. Businesses have invested in a portfolio of apps to make the smartphone productive. Switching platforms means starting from scratch to find suitable alternative apps, and paying for them all over again.
Customers like me who pre-ordered the iPhone 4 online have a little less than two weeks to take advantage of the option to return the device for a full refund. Hopefully, Apple will stop living in denial, and issuing ridiculous explanations and workarounds, and really address the issues during that time. Otherwise, many iPhone 4 customers will be forced to make a difficult decision between the lesser of two evils.
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/200689/iphone_4_customers_have_limited_time_and_limited_options.html?tk=hp_new (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/200689/iphone_4_customers_have_limited_time_and_limited_options.html?tk=hp_new)
Wow, disappointing. I love Apple, and I enjoyed my iPhone 3G, until the new iOS. Then, I was so excited when the iPhone 4 came out. But really, I'm a bit let down. I don't have most of the problems that a lot of people have, but the signal strength issue is still evident. Although, for some strange reason over the last week (actually since taking it to California) it seems to be ok. Haven't dropped a call all week. Hmm, maybe the iPhone 4's just want to be taken home to California before they'll work!! Hey, that's as much a solution as any Apple has offered yet!! :)
I can't agree more with the article. Now, should come the justifications on how Apple can do no wrong.
haha, for proof Apple can do wrong I point you to the 90's :)
Quote from: Bromptonboy on July 07, 2010, 03:12:15 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703636404575353143173830712.html?mod=igoogle_wsj_gadgv1& (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703636404575353143173830712.html?mod=igoogle_wsj_gadgv1&)
Looks like the network (Alcatel switches) are partly responsible.
This is more about the internet speeds though. I hoped that they would have a solution by now to the other problems. Well one other than "our signal strength has always sucked, but now we're making the meter show it clearly."
Anyone think we should have predicted this when the phone dropped connection during Steve's keynote?
:) Yeah billybob, THAT should have warned us all! :)
Now Consumer Reports has jumped on the bandwagon. Apple really needs to step up soon on this. Their response so far has not only been weak, but it's also not accurate. Read on...
Consumer Reports can't recommend iPhone 4
All you southpaw iPhone 4 users can freak out. Consumer Reports conducted its own research into the phone's fading reception when held with a palm or a finger covering a gap between its external antennas. The magazine found that the problem goes beyond the software flaw Apple cited last week, and it now refuses to recommend the device.
Consumer Reports' Mike Gikas described these findings in a post on the Yonkers, N.Y.,-based magazine's site this morning:
We reached this conclusion after testing all three of our iPhone 4s (purchased at three separate retailers in the New York area) in the controlled environment of CU's radio frequency (RF) isolation chamber. In this room, which is impervious to outside radio signals, our test engineers connected the phones to our base-station emulator, a device that simulates carrier cell towers. We also tested several other AT&T phones the same way, including the iPhone 3G S and the Palm Pre. None of those phones had the signal-loss problems of the iPhone 4.
As a result, CR declined to recommend the new phone, declaring that "Apple needs to come up with a permanent -- and free -- fix for the antenna problem before we can recommend the iPhone 4."
.
The magazine also questioned Apple's explanation of the problem--"totally wrong" software that overstates the strength of AT&T's wireless signal.
Our findings call into question the recent claim by Apple that the iPhone 4's signal-strength issues were largely an optical illusion caused by faulty software that "mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength."
As a temporary fix, CR endorsed the remedy that my colleague Michael Rosenwald suggested weeks ago, as noted in my review: covering that gap with some non-conducting tape. CR also plans to research which iPhone cases prevent this problem.
All this puts Apple in an awkward spot. One of the most trusted consumer publications in America just said its flagship product is defective and, in the bargain, just implied that Apple made up its excuse for the problem.
I've got a query into Apple for comment. While I wait on that, I'd like to get your read on the situation. Who do you believe? And what do you expect will happen next?
By Rob Pegoraro | July 12, 2010; 12:06 PM ET
P.S. I still predict that eventually every iPhone 4 out there will be either completely replaced (for free) or they will at least give everyone a free rubber bumper for it. So much for looking stylish. ;)
source:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2010/07/consumer_reports_cant_recommen.html (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2010/07/consumer_reports_cant_recommen.html)
oh crap, the only reviewers for tech that I trust outside this forum just trashed the iPhone 4 saying it's terrible. That is not good at all. I am glad I'm waiting to see how this turns out because if even Consumer Reports "hates" on it, then it indeed has issues.
King
It will depend on how many devices are effected and the result of their software upgrade. There are still many users who have not had the same reception issue, so the company isn't clear it's a hardware only problem. They won't issue recalls until they can determine the exact cause of the reception/anatane problem and it's cause, which makes sense.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 12, 2010, 10:12:23 AM
It will depend on how many devices are effected and the result of their software upgrade. There are still many users who have not had the same reception issue, so the company isn't clear it's a hardware only problem. They won't issue recalls until they can determine the exact cause of the reception/anatane problem and it's cause, which makes sense.
It makes perfect sense for the business, but for the consumer, they might be better returning the device and waiting for a fix.
If I had one that wasn't working properly, I would return it within the 30 day window and see if they can solve the issue with a software fix.
This is a documented problem - period. I've listened to an RF engineer talk about it at length. And this is not something ALL other cell phones do. But here is the kicker, if you live in a very good signal area for AT&T coverage it probably won't impact you. But what if you travel to an area with coverage that isn't as strong? Most people end up taking their precious phones on vacations, business trips, etc. I certainly wouldn't keep one of these if I owned one. Wait the few months for the hardware fixed one.
I take it all back! The iPhone app is back that turns your iPhone into a TOS style communicator. I'm off to the Apple store. ;)
Star Trek Original Series Communicator - iPhone App (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zei9HpygMN4#)
http://trekmovie.com/2010/07/12/cbs-releases-new-iphone-star-trek-communicator-application/ (http://trekmovie.com/2010/07/12/cbs-releases-new-iphone-star-trek-communicator-application/)
http://www.iphonesavior.com/2010/07/star-trek-communicator-app-returns-to-iphone.html (http://www.iphonesavior.com/2010/07/star-trek-communicator-app-returns-to-iphone.html)
WOW, that's so cool! In response to something you said a few pages back Rico, Gene Munster, the analyst at Piper Jaffrey who covers Apple, did an analysis of the top attributes consumers purchasing any smartphone placed the highest value on. Phone usage was ranked 2-3 behind mobile internet access. This is exactly why the iPad is and will continue to be a massive success. With the growth of mobile communication NOT voice related, like texting and Twitter, voice communication is no longer the number one reason why people buy these devices, they have moved beyond just phones.
Umm, so buying a phone isn't for the phone part? Then why buy it and not just a netbook or iPad or iPod touch? Sorry, a cell phone for me still has to be a very good phone first and foremost.
Quote from: Rico on July 12, 2010, 05:19:24 PM
Umm, so buying a phone isn't for the phone part? Then why buy it and not just a netbook or iPad or iPod touch? Sorry, a cell phone for me still has to be a very good phone first and foremost.
No, I understand your point, but these kind of trends are what's important to keep in mind when evaluating the potential of a product. It might not work foe you..or me... but we all need to look beyond our own prejudices to see the bigger picture. Honestly, I don't come on here to "defend" Apple. I don't work for them and have no dog in the fight beyond the stock price and an appreciation for what the company does. What I do challenge in all the Apple product threads are the naysayers who are convinced the latest product for them is doomed to failure or that somebody else will do it better. Not yet, the iPad being the latest example. May not work for some around here but it's a MASSIVE success. We just need to see the forest despite the tree's.
With skype getting more powerful and prevalent, phone companies need to step it up. Also, hulu+ is a major threat to cable companies. In other words
ADAPT or die you lazy companies.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 12, 2010, 05:24:05 PM
Quote from: Rico on July 12, 2010, 05:19:24 PM
Umm, so buying a phone isn't for the phone part? Then why buy it and not just a netbook or iPad or iPod touch? Sorry, a cell phone for me still has to be a very good phone first and foremost.
No, I understand your point, but these kind of trends are what's important to keep in mind when evaluating the potential of a product. It might not work foe you..or me... but we all need to look beyond our own prejudices to see the bigger picture. Honestly, I don't come on here to "defend" Apple. I don't work for them and have no dog in the fight beyond the stock price and an appreciation for what the company does. What I do challenge in all the Apple product threads are the naysayers who are convinced the latest product for them is doomed to failure or that somebody else will do it better. Not yet, the iPad being the latest example. May not work for some around here but it's a MASSIVE success. We just need to see the forest despite the tree's.
I don't have any prejudices. I don't care if Apple conquers the planet or falls off into the abyss. None of that matters to me. All that matters to me is getting a good product for my hard earned money. I spend a HUGE amount of time reading and researching things before I buy anything. I spent months looking for a new car, reading everything, driving tons of things. I buy what I feel works best for me and is a solid product. But, when something does have issues I will let people know. I do this for everything - not just Apple products. If you want to start a car thread I have a ton of info and thoughts on the current state of what is out there too. Anyway, like Joe Friday used to say on "Dragnet" - "Just the facts ma'am." ;)
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on July 12, 2010, 05:49:43 PM
With skype getting more powerful and prevalent, phone companies need to step it up. Also, hulu+ is a major threat to cable companies. In other words
ADAPT or die you lazy companies.
Hulu+ is a joke. Ten bucks a month for network tv that you can tivo for free? No thank you. You can also get basic cable for twice that with WAY more programming. Hulu+ is a threat to cable companies in the way that a mosquito is a threat to a battleship.
Also, one last thing to consider King ... to use Skype, you need broadband ... you are going to have to get that from your cable company or your phone company. The last time I checked, High Speed internet is WAY more expensive than a regular phone line.
They have already adapted and conquered. Their phone packages are also pretty cheep on both sides.
The added benefit is that you can call anyone with a phone and don't need to be bound to one brand of software.
Rico, didn't you buy a Zune, an HD-DVD player, and a Pontiac?? ;)
My point is you can do all the research and be well considered and still bet on the wrong horse, where the platform disappears and you are left out. Anticipating trends is an important as analyzing technology. And when I say prejudices, you're thinking too small. We are all biased towards things and concepts and ideals, not just brand and products, and it influences our thinking. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I simply saying there's data to suggest smart phone use is less about the phone then some may think. Worth considering.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 12, 2010, 07:52:15 PM
Rico, didn't you buy a Zune, an HD-DVD player, and a Pontiac?? ;)
My point is you can do all the research and be well considered and still bet on the wrong horse, where the platform disappears and you are left out. Anticipating trends is an important as analyzing technology. And when I say prejudices, you're thinking too small. We are all biased towards things and concepts and ideals, not just brand and products, and it influences our thinking. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I simply saying there's data to suggest smart phone use is less about the phone then some may think. Worth considering.
Just because something succeeds doesn't mean it's a better product. Beta-max was better than VHS, but when the porn industry got behind vhs, it killed the beta-max. HD-DVD is in many ways superior to Bluray. Features that were standard with Hd-dvd is just making it to bluray. Bluray won, not because it was better, but because it was created by a major studio that wouldn't release on the other format. They had a vested interest in the success because they make money on the movies and the devices.
Zune, while originally hideous, offered far better features than the iPOD and still does. I think the iPOD is a great device, but it's not the best out there.
I don't think it has anything at all to do with being biased. It has to do with not blindly following the pack and doing the research on a particular device.
I believe that Smart phones aren't used as phones as much as other phones, but you have to ask the question why.
Are people using smart phones as phones less because of they don't care about the phone part or because they have come to accept that the phone part is below par? If it is the first part, why is there not a product like a 3G iPOD touch? I'm pretty sure that not everyone that wants just the apps wants to carry around the iPAD.
BTW if they create a 3G touch, it was my idea and I want royalties.
Quote from: Just X on July 12, 2010, 08:27:13 PM
BTW if they create a 3G touch, it was my idea and I want royalties.
lulz. Actually, if they just added a friggin camera like the iPod Nano got (except with PICTURE AND FLASH), I would be more than happy to not get an iPhone, just the next gen iPod touch. No connection to AT&T, no stupid Bandwidth charges and all the apps I could ever hope for.
Then I'd just get a crappy phone for my phone.
And I do agree with the above statements, Hulu+ and Skype are not threats...yet. But let's face facts here. Because of how popular Facebook and Twitter are, I am now either going to totally remove texting or do 200 texts paid for or w/e when I renew my contract with Verizon. Unlimited texting is a wasted feature to me as I just..never text.
So technology is starting to catch up to these major powerhouses and Skype, Hulu+ and Netflix? are possible threats.
King
Quote from: Just X on July 12, 2010, 08:27:13 PM
Just because something succeeds doesn't mean it's a better product. Beta-max was better than VHS, but when the porn industry got behind vhs, it killed the beta-max. HD-DVD is in many ways superior to Bluray. Features that were standard with Hd-dvd is just making it to bluray. Bluray won, not because it was better, but because it was created by a major studio that wouldn't release on the other format. They had a vested interest in the success because they make money on the movies and the devices.
Zune, while originally hideous, offered far better features than the iPOD and still does. I think the iPOD is a great device, but it's not the best out there.
I don't think it has anything at all to do with being biased. It has to do with not blindly following the pack and doing the research on a particular device.
I believe that Smart phones aren't used as phones as much as other phones, but you have to ask the question why.
Are people using smart phones as phones less because of they don't care about the phone part or because they have come to accept that the phone part is below par? If it is the first part, why is there not a product like a 3G iPOD touch? I'm pretty sure that not everyone that wants just the apps wants to carry around the iPAD.
BTW if they create a 3G touch, it was my idea and I want royalties.
All true, but at the end of the day if the platform doesn't suceed, you're kind of stuck. What's "the best" in technology is subjective to the end user. Apple has created a felf fulfilling eco-system that will make it very difficult for another platform to break.
In regards to phone usage, my brother and sister text more than thye talk on their phones by far. My wife's friend who is in her late 20's told me once that guy's now ask girls out on dates via texting. It seems people don't even talk anymore! Not idle speculation on my part, this is what's happening, this is what Piper Jaffrey quanitified int heir analysis. It has nothing to do with call quality.
Derailing us back onto the iPhone 4 for a moment ;) I think one of the other 'issues' around this problem is that it's something that depends on the individual. Saying that 'not everyone experiences the problem' is different from saying that the problem isn't present in every phone.
There certainly is the local signal strength to take into consideration but also the conductivity of the skin of the person holding the phone. Stick a bit of tin foil over the gap, grip it tightly and then see how many phones have a problem.
I'm not bashing the phone, I'm so close to ordering one it's not true, but I think Apple have been caught out here and aren't covering themselves in glory in the way they're trying to defend themselves.
The software fix is rubbish (it has to be!) but I don't think the full extent of the problem has been revealed either.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 12, 2010, 07:52:15 PM
Rico, didn't you buy a Zune, an HD-DVD player, and a Pontiac?? ;)
Yep to all. The Zune is a great product, better than older iPods in many ways (especially for video). But, I don't like the software as much as iTunes. It's not as podcast friendly so I stick to using my iPod. Oh - and it was SUPER cheap at the time off woot.com.
The HD-DVD player was also fine. But I couldn't convince the rest of the world and they lost that battle.
And NEVER diss my Pontiac! That car was awesome and even now I wish I still had it for warm summer drives. Ran perfect, never a lick of trouble. And never had so many compliments on a car.
So, while I don't have a crystal ball, I stand by my decisions when I made them and still do.
I actually have a pretty good track record at picking things that go on to great heights. I had a VCR, a CD player, a DVD player, a DVR before most people. I had a computer way before many. I watched "Star Trek" back in the good old days (as did you Bryan). But like Chris said above, success is nice, but that's VERY hard to pick and judge ahead of time. Again, I stick to what I think will be good and useful.
To bring this back to the iPhone, I do think it's a very good product. But, I am dissappointed by Apple's response to a known problem. Heck, I probably would have one version of it if it worked with Sprint (and still might someday). But, I want them to step up and fix it a bit more first.
I'm one of those that use the thing as a computer first and a phone second but I keep the form factor for the sheer portability of it. Phone is important but it's not the primary use for my phone...er that sounds odd! ;)
Oddly, I am the same way. I deifntiely make calls but if I compare my data usage versus my voice time usage, data is much higher. Surfing, twitter, facebook, skype (for long distance)...
I never really thought about it until now but I really do use it as a phone second.
Reading through the thread, regarding the issues with iPhone 4, if someone decided to return one due to the issues, are they still tied to their contract they signed with it, and would they be forced to possibly choose a different phone that they may not want? Just asking as not sure how Phone contracts work in the US. as I would think that would be a bit of a disappointment, if you were stuck to a contract and either using an old phone or one you did not want.
I would also think with all the press on the problems, that it would chase off perspective buyers until Apple fixes the phone. If it is a hardware issue and they fix it in new phones, do you think they might slightly rebrand it, so they can differentiate it from the current iPhone 4, so that people think they are getting something different?
I have a smart phone, to be honest, I use the data far more then I use the phone part. I don't have a large circle of friends, so I don't do a lot of texting, but even less talking on the phone, but that is probably just more the person I am, as I am not a phone talking person. I agree that the phone part in these devices should work as well as other phones from past and present, as there really should be no excuse given the years mobile phones have been around. But for me, I will admit, when I am deciding on a smart phone, the phone part is not one of the big considerations when deciding.
I think you guys would use the phone part more and it would be more critical to you if you were working 375 miles from home. ;)
I'd probably be using skype from my phone :)
Then again you Americans don't seem to pay long distance anywhere!
Quote from: Rico on July 13, 2010, 07:01:12 AM
I think you guys would use the phone part more and it would be more critical to you if you were working 375 miles from home. ;)
Absolutely agree and in those circumstances, if I were on the phone, I would be using up my mobile minutes rather than a landline (unless I was at work... ;)). However, the mobile computing part would be even more important to me too and I'd still prefer to carry only one device around.
Having said all that, I'd probably spend more time on Skype or something similar in the evening (via iPhone or PC) rather than just using the phone.
OT, but you are so right about Pontiac, Rico. They were making great cars like the G6, the G8, and the Solstice, a platform they shared with Saturn
Anyway, very interesting to hear some folks here validate the research I have been reading regarding phone use vs. data use. And no doubt, Apple has handled the G4 reception issues poorly up to now. Curious that Consumer Reports despite not recommending the current G4 do say it's the best smart phone on the market...assuming it works. :)
Quote from: Feathers on July 13, 2010, 07:11:51 AM
Quote from: Rico on July 13, 2010, 07:01:12 AM
I think you guys would use the phone part more and it would be more critical to you if you were working 375 miles from home. ;)
Absolutely agree and in those circumstances, if I were on the phone, I would be using up my mobile minutes rather than a landline (unless I was at work... ;)). However, the mobile computing part would be even more important to me too and I'd still prefer to carry only one device around.
Having said all that, I'd probably spend more time on Skype or something similar in the evening (via iPhone or PC) rather than just using the phone.
It's pretty frowned upon to use the work phone for personal calls. Especially calls that are long distance. I don't tend to call home much during working hours anyway, maybe a quick text or two. Typically Lynn is at work during the school year anyway. But we check in via phone in the evening. I have hands free Bluetooth in the new car so that helps a lot on the drives back and forth and I drive through some pretty spotty areas but Sprint seems to do very well. So yeah, my phone right now is my link to home and it has to work very well.
That's a good point, Rico. In my job, we are always on the phone so I can chit chat with anybody all day for free. :)
Just came across this, are you seeing the same Bryan?
QuoteShares of Apple Inc (AAPL-Q250.53-6.75-2.62%) slid more than 4 per cent on Tuesday after a poor review for its iPhone 4 from an influential consumer guide underpinned mounting complaints about the hot-selling device's reception.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/apple-shares-slide-as-iphone-4-concerns-grow/article1638470/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/apple-shares-slide-as-iphone-4-concerns-grow/article1638470/)
Joe, I watch Apple and about 100 other stocks all day on my screen! Apple can swing more that 5% on very volatile days, it's not uncommon especially in this market.
Last trade was $252.25, it's off 1.9%. It did briefly break 250 and I actually bough more at that point. It's becoming more clear they won't due a recall but will likley have to provide the band grip to affected users and possibly for free. It's a $25 item. So we figure the economic impact of that to the company is very small, maybe $1/unit. All analysts still see over 7.5 million phones to sell in the next quarter, demand continues to be very strong.
I'm very focused on Intel today and their earnings announcement tonight.
hehe I know you keep an eye, wanted a professional opinion on the matter. Your cheque is in the mail :)
Intel just CRUSHED there earnings. I bought this morning and it's up over 5% in the aftermarket. Market actually has turned and looks ok for the time being with tech leading the way.
That's because Intel rocks!
Our parties aren't like your parties - Intel Sponsors of Tomorrow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddZo9GEAUrg#)
http://www.appolicious.com/finance/articles/2336-an-iphone-4-recall-less-costly-than-apple-s-share-drop?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.appolicious.com/finance/articles/2336-an-iphone-4-recall-less-costly-than-apple-s-share-drop?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
Quote from: Just X on July 14, 2010, 09:08:21 AM
http://www.appolicious.com/finance/articles/2336-an-iphone-4-recall-less-costly-than-apple-s-share-drop?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.appolicious.com/finance/articles/2336-an-iphone-4-recall-less-costly-than-apple-s-share-drop?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
Apple will not recall the iPhone. As I mentioned, 5% swings in the share price of Apple are not uncommon. The current market discounting the iPhone issues, which seem to effect about 25% of the iPhones sold, is already priced into the stock, which has rebounded from it's 249 lows of yesterday and is up over 1% today to 254.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 14, 2010, 09:14:21 AM
Quote from: Just X on July 14, 2010, 09:08:21 AM
http://www.appolicious.com/finance/articles/2336-an-iphone-4-recall-less-costly-than-apple-s-share-drop?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.appolicious.com/finance/articles/2336-an-iphone-4-recall-less-costly-than-apple-s-share-drop?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
Apple will not recall the iPhone. As I mentioned, 5% swings in the share price of Apple are not uncommon. The current market discounting the iPhone issues, which seem to effect about 25% of the iPhones sold, is already priced into the stock, which has rebounded from it's 249 lows of yesterday and is up over 1% today to 254.
PR wise, it might be a good idea. Or at the very least, recover from the fact that multiple sources are not recommending the iPhone 4.
King
Bryan - can you explain to me what stock price has to do with recalling a defective product?
Quote from: Rico on July 14, 2010, 09:33:59 AM
Bryan - can you explain to me what stock price has to do with recalling a defective product?
Sure. The price of any stock at any given moment is a reflection of a companies current profitability, future potential earning, and the growth of those revenues. So a stocks price is a companies forward earnings divided by the number of shares outstanding. A stock can trade at a premium or discount to this model depending on how people feel about future growth prospects. That's all the stock market is, a futre discounting mechanism for equity values.
So in regards to the iPhone, if they do a general recall of all the phones sold, it will have a cost to the comapny, a charge back, that will adversely effect this quarters profitability. Therefore the stockl price needs to discount that revenue shortfall. RBC Capital did a great analysis this morning on the various impacts of three potential scenarios: Provide free cases, repair the effected phones, recall ALL the phones. H ealso shows the potential impact on share price.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/14/every_week_apple_doesnt_act_on_iphone_4_antenna_could_cost_200m.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/14/every_week_apple_doesnt_act_on_iphone_4_antenna_could_cost_200m.html)
In a nutshell, a way for them to make their lost money back. However, they will boost their image immensely if they come out an issue some type of statement either extending that 30 day return window and/or offering to replace the phones in the future with the next, better version (such as dual, internal antenna mode - like they should have done). It's been interesting to see how this has all gone down so far. And I think it's far from over.
P.S. Oh - ALL iPhone 4's have this issue. The only variable is the reception in your given area and how that impacts you. But again, you better be darn sure you don't visit an area with weaker coverage if you think you are ok - for now.
Quote from: Rico on July 14, 2010, 11:11:37 AM
P.S. Oh - ALL iPhone 4's have this issue. The only variable is the reception in your given area and how that impacts you. But again, you better be darn sure you don't visit an area with weaker coverage if you think you are ok - for now.
Agreed. There's no engineering reason why only a subset of the phones are affected. The differences only lie in the local signal reception and the characteristics of the individual holding the phone...but I think I already said that. :)
Actually, if the iPhone 4 was a car, a recall would have happened already. Remember, I'm a fan of Apple, loved my iPhone 3G, jumped on the iPhone 4 the first day. I love the device, it's way cool, BUT, the phone function sucks. There are some quirks in the iPhone 4 (maybe hardware, maybe os, maybe both), that make it frustrating. I've read about the possibility of a recall and I think they SHOULD recall it. Man-up and take care of your loyal customers, before they aren't your loyal customers anymore. But...I fear Apple WON'T recall because if they did, that would be openly admitting that they put a defective product on the market, which will lend credibility to all the class action law suits out there. This one mistake could cost Apple a lot. Too bad too.
Quote from: Feathers on July 14, 2010, 01:59:06 PM
Quote from: Rico on July 14, 2010, 11:11:37 AM
P.S. Oh - ALL iPhone 4's have this issue. The only variable is the reception in your given area and how that impacts you. But again, you better be darn sure you don't visit an area with weaker coverage if you think you are ok - for now.
Well, from a mass manufacturing standpoint, it is possible that a large batch was defective for whatever reason: bad parts, faulty machinery, etc. But I agree, I think it's all iPhone 4's, and if you happen to have one that's not having recepting issues, odds are you are close enough to a source tower to "mask" the issue...
Agreed. There's no engineering reason why only a subset of the phones are affected. The differences only lie in the local signal reception and the characteristics of the individual holding the phone...but I think I already said that. :)
Apple will be holding a press conference tomorrow morning and there is some speculation that OS4.01 might be released today in advance of that.
I look forward to hearing what they are going to do/say.
I hope they fix the OTA iTunes podcast downloading problem as well. This "error while downloading podcast" error is ticking me off! :(
Quote from: Bryancd on July 15, 2010, 05:37:19 AM
Apple will be holding a press conference tomorrow morning and there is some speculation that OS4.01 might be released today in advance of that.
Press conference?? Yikes! Predictions??
- Free cases
- Extended return period
- Recall??
- Steve Jobs goes to each customer's home and shows them the proper "iPhone Grip" method.
Well, a recall would only be useful if they have either a fix or a revised model. Free cases seems like the most practical but it seems like a 'patch' and not a solution.
Quote from: billybob476 on July 15, 2010, 07:18:43 AM
Well, a recall would only be useful if they have either a fix or a revised model. Free cases seems like the most practical but it seems like a 'patch' and not a solution.
The recall doesn't have to happen now. They could say they are working on it and everyone will get iPhone 4.1 when it's ready. I mean we all know they HAVE to change the antenna in the next version. And given the current reports and press, I see that coming faster than any new version ever before.
Yes, as I said a few pages ago, there will NOT be a recall and this is not a situation which can/would result in a class action lawsuit. There are no grounds for damages when the product can be returned. You can't claim you have been harmed because you drop a call and they would never be able to prove the company knowing sold the product under false pretense.
I think what will become clear is that Apple's response to this, which certainly appears poorly managed, has been difficult. The manner in which these issue's manifested themselves were at first random and sporadic. The comany had to research and try and figure out exactly what was happening and how to fix it. Once they determine that, they need to decide on how to address customer concerns and issues in the most effective manner. The amount of histrionics on the internet not withstanding. Chances are they will provide the bumpers/cases to current owners, provide the planned software update, and make whatever design changes they need to future models. The iPhone 4G continues to sell despite this issue which again speak volumes to the strength of the product and how the consuming public feels about it.
In my humble opinion, Apple needs to "man-up" (or, for those Anomaly folks out there - - woman-up), and take care of business. If it means refunding a portion of the purchase price then so be it. I am a bit ashamed of Apple right now. I'm looking forward to this press conference tomorrow. I think the future of their reputation hinges on what they say. Al
Bryan, I don't really agree with that. Honestly there is enough "ammo" to have a really good shot at winning. Not entirely sure why you think there isn't enough grounds to file a class action suit since there really is. There are really only 4 criteria to launch a class action and two of them are Numerosity (having enough people participating) and Commonality (common issues of fact). This situation certainly has both of those. Not only are consumers making statements about the iPhone 4 inadequacy but Apple themselves have made statements of fact. There are certainly plenty of people signing on for this class action lawsuit and given the situation, I believe with the right representation they could win at least something.
This issue began as "sporadic" simply because it took a little time for these issues to begin revealing themselves. If you remember, it wasn't long at all before the message boards all over the place began lighting up about all the probelms. In fact, the very night we purchased ours (which was the first day they were sold), there were already hundreds of posts out there about the problems. And for the record, I'm pretty sure that Apple knew about a majority of the issues prior to releasing. The same thing occurs in the automotive industry. If you get reports of 100 people having accelerator issues in their cars, it's nothing to take action on. When that number reaches 1,000+, then we make a statement. Once people are injured or killed, we take action. This is not my opinion, this is fact - textbook management. I'm certain Apple (even though I LOVE my Apple products) carries on business thusly. They had to know about these issues. They're too good at what they do NOT to have known. BUT...management most likely felt it wasn't worth worrying about unless it became a huge problem...which is now is. So, first they made some statements, and now I believe they'll have some sort of "fix" and hopefully it won't be those ugly useless bumpers. I bought those for mine and my wife's iPhone 4, and they didn't work at all. Didn't boost, improve or degrade the signal in the least, so in my opinion, a $30 waste. We returned them.
And I'm not sure that the fact the iPhone 4 (I don't think it's considered the 4G) is still selling is a testement to the strength of the product but the loyalty of Apples customer base. Which is why I really hope Apple does something positive about this Charlie Foxtrox because I'm guarantee this, if they don't, us loyal customers will jump ship. Why should WE continue our loyalty if THEY won't?---Al
I'm simply stating what I feel will be the most likely outcome of this situation Al, you don't have to agree. :) It's what I do every day.
Apple brand loyalty won't take a hit on this. It may for you, but I look at the macro picture and research is showing that demand for Apple products, especially heading into the fall back to school and holiday season is very strong. This is where sober research trumps internet articles and forum posts.
Public opinion is a VERY fickle beast. Don't underestimate how fast people can turn on you or your company.
Consider the XBOX. The system had and continues to have some serious design flaws. This causes it to become basically inoperable - the classic, "red-ring" of death. Of course, not being able to play video games isn't exactly dangerous and/or causes any damages. But Microsoft basically continues to extend the warranty and fixes or replaces a TON of systems for free. We've had three replaced I think now. Two for one box and one for another. The newer versions are more problem free, but Microsoft did the right thing and continues to fix or replace a design flaw with older systems.
Actually it's less fickle than you think, especially when it's considered aspirational and is universally adopted. Amazing as this is even to me, iPhones and now iPads are become to be seen as MUST HAVE items for back to school this year among both students and their parents. Again, this is simply what the research done is showing, I'm not editorializing, just relating what trends we are seeing.
And Apple is a much better run company than Microsoft, especially since Gates left and Balmer has been in charge. He's a moron and investors have fled their stock accordingly.
No worries. I love a good debate. But...do you really think that in today's world of "what can you do for me now" that if Apple screws the pooch on this and continues saying "You're holding the phone all wrong", THAT won't impact their customer loyalty on a grand scale? I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in feeling this way, but when Jobs made that statement, it was like he was telling us we're all idiots. "Hey STUPID! There's nothing wrong with my product, it's YOU! YOU! You just don't know how to use a hyper advanced piece of technology". Don't get me wrong, I love Apple and I AM one of their biggest supporters, but let me tell you, even if someone I love lies to me repeatedly and repeatedly takes advantage of me, I'm going to kick them out of my life. Same with brands. If Apple doesn't take this issue seriously and FIX IT, they will lose me. And you may think, so what? They can afford to lose a few thousand customers, but Apple better NOT think that way. That, in my opion, is the Wal-Mart mentality. For every one upset customer, there's 20 behind them in line waiting to buy. That's a crap attitiude. But...perhaps I'm showing my age again. I actually believe that a company should have some loyalty to their customer base. Not just the millions but the one. Losing ONE customer should impact the way the act just the same as losing 1,000...
And no worries brother, I'll debate with you, or anyone, but I will NEVER have any ill feelings toward ya! :)
Good article on GigaOM:
QuoteThe timing of the press conference reflects the fact that the company is hosting its earnings call on Tuesday and it makes sense for it to deal with the antenna issue prior to that call. In a note to his clients this morning, Rodman & Renshaw analyst Ashok Kumar wrote:
Our supply chain checks reveal that Apple has instituted a design fix for the iPhone 4 that more adequately insulates the transceiver module. Apple is also likely to offer the bumper, gratis, as an intermediary solution. It is unclear if Apple will announce an official recall.
http://gigaom.com/2010/07/15/iphone-recall/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+OmMalik+(GigaOM) (http://gigaom.com/2010/07/15/iphone-recall/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+OmMalik+(GigaOM))
Quote from: billybob476 on July 15, 2010, 09:19:11 AM
Good article on GigaOM:
QuoteThe timing of the press conference reflects the fact that the company is hosting its earnings call on Tuesday and it makes sense for it to deal with the antenna issue prior to that call. In a note to his clients this morning, Rodman & Renshaw analyst Ashok Kumar wrote:
Our supply chain checks reveal that Apple has instituted a design fix for the iPhone 4 that more adequately insulates the transceiver module. Apple is also likely to offer the bumper, gratis, as an intermediary solution. It is unclear if Apple will announce an official recall.
http://gigaom.com/2010/07/15/iphone-recall/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+OmMalik+(GigaOM) (http://gigaom.com/2010/07/15/iphone-recall/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+OmMalik+(GigaOM))
Yep, that's about where the wall street consensus's is in regards to what's going to happen.
And Al, there's no chance Apple doesn't address this issue fully. They won't string people along for months, it doesn't make good economic sense. I agree that repeated issues can be very damaging, but that's really not what's happening here. The phone has been out for a few weeks, the problem has been identified, and a resolution is forth coming. I realize that in the internet age, blogs and forums and the like can spread news so fast that it's tough to separate fact from fiction. I think you would have to agree thatalthough you may be dissatisfied at the company's initial response, they are clearly working in good faith for a resolution and to characterize it as anything else is a bit extreme at this point.
Bryan - I have two sons. Both at college. One still in college, one working on campus and heading to grad school. Neither has an iPad or iPhone. Most of their friends also have neither, and most really don't like the iPad for many reasons (typically because it can't do a lot of things they need it to do). Just from my little corner of the world. Be careful what "reports" you read.
Oh, Droid X - on sale today! ;)
Quote from: Rico on July 15, 2010, 09:36:35 AM
Bryan - I have two sons. Both at college. One still in college, one working on campus and heading to grad school. Neither has an iPad or iPhone. Most of their friends also have neither, and most really don't like the iPad for many reasons (typically because it can't do a lot of things they need it to do). Just from my little corner of the world. Be careful what "reports" you read.
Oh, Droid X - on sale today! ;)
Actually, I have to be careful of the N=1 kind of analysis. Paid research analysis usually is pretty accurate. It's anecdotal and internet chatter I have to avoid.
Quote from: Rico on July 15, 2010, 09:36:35 AM
Bryan - I have two sons. Both at college. One still in college, one working on campus and heading to grad school. Neither has an iPad or iPhone. Most of their friends also have neither, and most really don't like the iPad for many reasons (typically because it can't do a lot of things they need it to do). Just from my little corner of the world. Be careful what "reports" you read.
Oh, Droid X - on sale today! ;)
I'd have more confidence in the Droid X if motorola had not made this phone. Since they did, I auto-ignore the capabilities of the phone. Sorry, too many times I've been screwed by that company in some form.
It's also ironic you bring up Microsoft earlier. They have been making bad software and hardware for the past 5 years and still easily get away with it. Why? Because everyone is dependent upon them. So they can make mediocre software, and get away with it. Because there are few alternatives. Why is this ironic? Because Apple screws up one feature on a brand new smartphone and everyone sues their ass for it. Why don't we do the same to Microsoft. We should sue them for the horrible experience that was Vista. We should then sue them again for making 7 nothing more than a glorified update of Vista. We should also sue them for the red ring of death on the Xbox. See how ridiculous this is getting?
Seriously, there should be no grounds to sue Apple. Don't like the phone? Move onto the Droid. I hear they have cookies :P
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on July 15, 2010, 09:51:17 AM
Quote from: Rico on July 15, 2010, 09:36:35 AM
Bryan - I have two sons. Both at college. One still in college, one working on campus and heading to grad school. Neither has an iPad or iPhone. Most of their friends also have neither, and most really don't like the iPad for many reasons (typically because it can't do a lot of things they need it to do). Just from my little corner of the world. Be careful what "reports" you read.
Oh, Droid X - on sale today! ;)
I'd have more confidence in the Droid X if motorola had not made this phone. Since they did, I auto-ignore the capabilities of the phone. Sorry, too many times I've been screwed by that company in some form.
It's also ironic you bring up Microsoft earlier. They have been making bad software and hardware for the past 5 years and still easily get away with it. Why? Because everyone is dependent upon them. So they can make mediocre software, and get away with it. Because there are few alternatives. Why is this ironic? Because Apple screws up one feature on a brand new smartphone and everyone sues their ass for it. Why don't we do the same to Microsoft. We should sue them for the horrible experience that was Vista. We should then sue them again for making 7 nothing more than a glorified update of Vista. We should also sue them for the red ring of death on the Xbox. See how ridiculous this is getting?
Seriously, there should be no grounds to sue Apple. Don't like the phone? Move onto the Droid. I hear they have cookies :P
King
King...well, because we EXPECT that performance out of Microsoft! :) I agree with the lawsuits being stupid, I really do. That's why I won't participate. Our society has become way too litigious and it takes precious legal time away from the things that are necessary. However, whenever you have people, you'll have a subset of bottom dwelling lawyer types looking to profit off of them.
And Bryan, I'm sure you're right. Apple will make good on this. I'm just a bit bitter because I was dumb enough to stand in line for 4 1/2 hours and pay $300 to extend my contract with ATT! YIKES! My fault.
I don't think you will regret that at the end of the day here, Al.
Here's the bottom line. The iPhone platform and the 4G iPhone is the most popular smartphone/potrtable internet device on the market in terms of growth and consumer perception. They have made a poor design choice with the antenae which is causing recpetion issue's. They will fix that error in future models and will look to provide a remedy for those 3+ million phones already sold. You will likely have repurchased the phone and will be enjoying all of it's capabilities you wrote about initially when yopu bought it. You're not going to buy a Droid or a Palm, or a Blackberry. That's a basic, sober view of where we are today on this.
Here's a twist: I have a co-worker who purchased the iPhone 4 last week. He used to be on the Singular network, which I guess now it part of ATT. He never had issues with his Singular reception, and hasn't had any of the issues most of us are facing now. AND, he lives way out in East Gilbert, which is pretty much the middle of nowhere. He has full signal strength and hasn't dropped a single call. Possible he's on a different network? Strange stuff here...
Here's a great review of some of the best analysts views on what might happen tomorrow and going forward:
"Apple's scheduling of a press conference Friday to talk about the iPhone 4 could foreshadow a product recall, a free in-store modification of the device's hardware, or a handout of free bumpers, depending on who you ask.
A number of Wall Street's most prominent analysts chimed in on Thursday to share what they think Apple will say at its iPhone 4 press conference, scheduled for 10 a.m. Pacific Time on Friday at its Cupertino, Calif., campus. Some see the scheduling of the press conference as evidence that Apple could initiate a recall of its recently launched handset, while others still believe that a full recall is a long shot.
RBC Capital Markets
Analyst Mike Abramsky noted that the iPhone 4 now has an availability of 3 weeks, up from a shipping time of 7 to 10 days from a few days ago, which could imply a transition in production.
"While some have suggested Apple could provide cases or bumpers, in our view Apple may prefer to more permanently resolve the perceived issue, to avoid ongoing impacts to reputation and brand," Abramsky wrote.
If Apple does institute a recall, it would likely impact the timing of the international launch of the iPhone 4, he said, which is planned to debut in 18 additional countries by the end of July, and a total of 88 by the end of September. He sees a recall costing Apple $1.8 billion in revenue and 40 percent earnings per share in its fourth-quarter guidance.
"We believe Apple will do whatever is necessary to correct the perceived iPhone 4 reception problem," he said. "While the fix may come at some cost, Apple with its $42B cash and $16B/yr cashflow can easily afford it. Apple customer loyalty is deep and resilient, and in our view, we expect iPhone 4 demand to rebound quickly. What could change our view is if Apple is perceived as handling the issue badly, the issue is protracted, or sales/financial impact worse than expected."
Piper Jaffray
Analyst Gene Munster with Piper Jaffray still maintains that a recall is unlikely, but he does believe that a hardware modification is more realistic given the fact that Apple is now holding a formal event.
"It is increasingly likely that the company will make an investment in the brand and calm the PR storm by offering current iPhone owners an in-store fix free of charge," he wrote. "Specifically, we now believe there is a 50% chance the company offers a free modification to current iPhone owners and includes the modification on all future iPhone 4s."
The change would likely result in a disruption of iPhone 4 sales for one month in the September quarter, he said, as the company would need to modify and re-stock phones before it sold them. Munster had previously forecast Apple to sell 9.5 million phones in the September quarter, but he believes those numbers would take a 12 percent hit in the event of a hardware modification.
A full recall, Munster believes, would cost Apple $1 billion in a one-time charge. He believes replacing every iPhone previously sold would present an average cost of $250 per handset to the company.
Munster also sees a 40 percent chance that Apple gives away bumper cases that resolve the reception issue. The rubber cases retail for $29. He said there is a 10 percent chance that Apple will explain the issue and do nothing.
"Despite these issues, consumers love the iPhone 4," he wrote. "Ultimately we believe Apple will manage these issues in a consumer-friendly way and maintain its pristine brand."
UBS
Maynard Um also believes a recall is unlikely to be announced by Apple on Friday. Such an approach, the UBS analyst said, would result in the immediate halt of iPhone 4 sales by Apple and its carrier partners.
He said if the solution presented by Apple is straight-forward, some may wonder why Apple didn't just choose to announce it through a press release. Given the considerable media attention the issue has received, Um said that just isn't an option for Apple.
"We believe an event is necessary as a press release to address what has become a 'loud' issue would likely have drawn more ire," he said.
Um sees the toll the news has taken on Apple's stock as a buying opportunity for investors. UBS has a $320 price target set for AAPL stock."
I can corroborate this. We don't have the iPhone 4 here in Canada as of yet. The grapevine was saying it was supposed to be out by the end of this month. I haven't heard a peep out of my provider regarding a launch date for the device in Canada. The only email I received from them advised customers to stop placing calls to customer service asking about the iPhone as the CSR's had no additional info.
You'd think that if the phone were coming out here in the next 2 weeks we'd have heard something by now. There is definitely a delay and while we can't be sure I do imagine it is related to the current situation.
Wall Street Journal is also reporting that there won't be a recall, so it's likely in store repair and bumpers. Yes, G4 launches in Europe and Asia will also be delayed until September to get the fix into the new phones.
I've seen at least one rumour of a design change to address the issue but that had no word as to whether it could be retro-fitted to existing phones.
As a preliminary (and I assume ineffective) step, Apple released iOS 4.0.1 yesterday. Haven't applied it myself as of yet.
http://lifehacker.com/5588116/iphone-401-update-improves-signal-strength-formula-ipad-321-adds-several-fixes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+lifehacker/full+(Lifehacker) (http://lifehacker.com/5588116/iphone-401-update-improves-signal-strength-formula-ipad-321-adds-several-fixes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+lifehacker/full+(Lifehacker))
Quote from: billybob476 on July 16, 2010, 07:03:53 AM
As a preliminary (and I assume ineffective) step, Apple released iOS 4.0.1 yesterday. Haven't applied it myself as of yet.
http://lifehacker.com/5588116/iphone-401-update-improves-signal-strength-formula-ipad-321-adds-several-fixes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+lifehacker/full+(Lifehacker) (http://lifehacker.com/5588116/iphone-401-update-improves-signal-strength-formula-ipad-321-adds-several-fixes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+lifehacker/full+(Lifehacker))
Yeah, I mentioned yesterday this was coming. According to Apple they have seen an improvement in signal strength but this will not preclude a repair option for the effected phones.
Quote from: billybob476 on July 16, 2010, 07:03:53 AM
As a preliminary (and I assume ineffective) step, Apple released iOS 4.0.1 yesterday. Haven't applied it myself as of yet.
http://lifehacker.com/5588116/iphone-401-update-improves-signal-strength-formula-ipad-321-adds-several-fixes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+lifehacker/full+(Lifehacker) (http://lifehacker.com/5588116/iphone-401-update-improves-signal-strength-formula-ipad-321-adds-several-fixes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+lifehacker/full+(Lifehacker))
Just put this on mine. The impact seems to be that instead of a five bar 3G signal upstairs and a one or two bar signal downstairs, I get two bars upstairs and one downstairs. What I'm not clear on is whether they've simply fiddled with the way the bars are drawn or whether the change actually affects the way the device behaves in areas of poor reception (or even whether it will for a '4' but not for mine).
What makes me laugh is that while I have only a single bar now, the bar is much bigger than it used to be. Who said size didn't matter??? ;)
so is one bigger bar better then two smaller ones? :D
All they did was change the math behind the calculation of how many bars to show. It has no effect on actual connectivity.
Quote from: billybob476 on July 16, 2010, 07:59:27 AM
so is one bigger bar better then two smaller ones? :D
All they did was change the math behind the calculation of how many bars to show. It has no effect on actual connectivity.
Right. Now that people are invested in the phone, they can see how crappy the connection actually is now that the illusion is gone.
Quote from: billybob476 on July 16, 2010, 07:59:27 AM
so is one bigger bar better then two smaller ones? :D
All they did was change the math behind the calculation of how many bars to show. It has no effect on actual connectivity.
That's what I believe but it's not impossible that some functionality is triggered of the signal strength display. It would be sloppy programming and Apple isn't known for that but it's not impossible.
Quote from: Just X on July 16, 2010, 08:08:50 AM
Quote from: billybob476 on July 16, 2010, 07:59:27 AM
so is one bigger bar better then two smaller ones? :D
All they did was change the math behind the calculation of how many bars to show. It has no effect on actual connectivity.
Right. Now that people are invested in the phone, they can see how crappy the connection actually is now that the illusion is gone.
It's funny, my instant reaction to reading this was a bit negative but it's actually exactly what I was thinking an hour ago.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the 'erroneous calculation' was in place from Day 1 to fool the masses as to the reception and Apple 'found out' when it started to cause more problems than it solved.
Quote from: Feathers on July 16, 2010, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: Just X on July 16, 2010, 08:08:50 AM
Quote from: billybob476 on July 16, 2010, 07:59:27 AM
so is one bigger bar better then two smaller ones? :D
All they did was change the math behind the calculation of how many bars to show. It has no effect on actual connectivity.
Right. Now that people are invested in the phone, they can see how crappy the connection actually is now that the illusion is gone.
It's funny, my instant reaction to reading this was a bit negative but it's actually exactly what I was thinking an hour ago.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the 'erroneous calculation' was in place from Day 1 to fool the masses as to the reception and Apple 'found out' when it started to cause more problems than it solved.
Well, not to surprise you, but Apple did confirm that the erroneous calculation has been around since the beginning. The only question is if they knew then what they know now.
Regardless, people have too much invested in apps and music to drop the phone now. Looks like a win for Apple.
The conference has started. Stay tuned.
1:01 Jazz music continues to play in the background... waiting for Steveo Friday July 16, 2010 1:01
1:03 Running a few minutes late here... Friday July 16, 2010 1:03
1:05 Apple's having a bit of fun with this, playing the iPhone Antenna song in the background.
1:06 Steve Jobs has arrived...
Friday July 16, 2010 1:06
1:07 It will be a 15 minute presentation, he says... Friday July 16, 2010 1:07
1:07 Jobs is conceding that Apple isn't perfect and neither are its cell phones, yet the company is committed to making its customers happy. Friday July 16, 2010 1:07
1:08 He's going to present some data. To date, Apple has shipped 3 million iPhone 4s.
Friday July 16, 2010 1:08
1:09 Jobs is talking about media publications that give the iPhone some of the highest ratings, noting that customer satisfaction is also off the charts. Friday July 16, 2010 1:09
1:09 Still, the company was receiving reports of antenna issues and videos began appearing on websites like Gizmodo. Friday July 16, 2010 1:09
1:10 For 22 days Apple has been working their 'butts off," Jobs says. Friday July 16, 2010 1:10
Oh man, he's talking about how other phones do the same thing. I hope he's not trying to justify it.
1:11 Jobs says the company doesnt have its head in the sand, instead they've been focusing on pinpointing the real problem so that they can then form an appropriate sollution. Friday July 16, 2010 1:11
1:12 Jobs is providing evidence that shows other cellphones, like the BlackBerry bold 9700 also show a signal drop when cupped a certain way: from 5 bars to 1. Friday July 16, 2010 1:12
1:12 Similarly, the HTC Droid Eris goes from 4 bars to 2. Friday July 16, 2010 1:12
1:13 Things aren't much different for Samsung Omnia II. Friday July 16, 2010 1:13
1:15 Jobs maintains that he could go on with the list of rival phones that exhibit the same behavior, adding that smartphones are not perfect, overall. Friday July 16, 2010 1:15
1:16 Jobs maintains that the separation in the antennas on the bottom left of the new iPhone exploited the issue. Friday July 16, 2010 1:16
1:17 Since the iOS software was calibrating bars incorrectly, the resulting drop in signal from touching that portion of the phone made the end result look surprising. Friday July 16, 2010 1:17
1:17 So Apple changed the algorithm yesterday with iOS 4.0.1 Friday July 16, 2010 1:17
Quote from: billybob476 on July 16, 2010, 10:14:42 AM
Oh man, he's talking about how other phones do the same thing. I hope he's not trying to justify it.
he is, the idiot.
Jason Snell:
0.55% of all iPhone customers have called AppleCare with an antenna issue.
That's because no one can call them through applecare on their iPhone you dunce!!!!!!!!!
King
1:18 As such, Apple's invested over $100 million in a state of the art test facility with 17 anechoic chambers, staffed by 18 PhD scientists and engineers. Friday July 16, 2010 1:18
1:19 The iPhone 4 was tested in the chamber and Apple was aware that gripping the handset on the left hand side would decrease the number of signal bars, but never did they anticipate it causing such a problem for consumers. Friday July 16, 2010 1:19
1:20 Still, calls to Apple's AppleCare customer support that are routinely logged show just over a half a percent of those calls are from customers with complaints over the iPhone 4's antenna. Friday July 16, 2010 1:20
1:22 Those numbers don't add up to all the mounting concerns waged by the media, Jobs remarks. He's about to give some info on AT&T and Apple return rates... Friday July 16, 2010 1:22
1:23 iPhone 3GS, which has been the best selling smartphone in history, saw return rates of 6 percent during the same time period after launch last year. But for the iPhone, Apple's at just 1.7%. Friday July 16, 2010 1:23
1:23 So that's a little less than a third of the return rate of the iPhone 4's predecessor. Friday July 16, 2010 1:23
1:24 AT&T three days ago also provided Apple with its call drop rates. Friday July 16, 2010 1:24
Easy boy's let the man finish for heavans sake. You two are worse than the talking heads yammering on TV right now.
1:24 Even though Apple believes the iPhone 4 has a superior antenna, the handset is dropping more calls per each 100 calls than the iPhone 3GS. Friday July 16, 2010 1:24
1:25 Still, that's less than 1 call per 100, Jobs asserts. Friday July 16, 2010 1:25
1:27 Jobs is now explaining how when the iPhone 3GS came out, people converted their iPhone 3G cases, because both devices were physically identical. Or they were able to purchase one on the market, which was full of the same size and shape case from the previous year's worth of iPhones. But with the iPhone 4, the design is all new and the number of cases and Apple bumpers have been limited. Friday July 16, 2010 1:27
1:28 Apple can't make bumpers fast enough, Jobs says. Friday July 16, 2010 1:28
1:28 Jobs claims he's received thousands of emails from users who claim they have no problem with the iPhone 4, but Apple wants all of its customers to be happy, so it's continuing to invest in researching the matter. Friday July 16, 2010 1:28
1:29 Apple won't stop until every user is happy, he says. Friday July 16, 2010 1:29
1:30 So this is what Apple's doing. First, it's released iOS 4.0.1 which corrects the formula for the way signal bars are displayed across the iPhone line. Every user should update, Jobs says. Friday July 16, 2010 1:30
1:30 Also, everyone will get a FREE bumper. Friday July 16, 2010 1:30
1:30 If you've already purchased a bumper, you'll get a refund. Friday July 16, 2010 1:30
1:31 For every iPhone that's purchased prior to September 30th, that is. Friday July 16, 2010 1:31
1:31 Since Jobs maintains that Apple can't make bumpers faster enough, its teaming with third parties to outsource other cases and will give users a choice of case. Friday July 16, 2010 1:31
1:32 iPhone 4 owners can register for the offer on Apple.com starting next week. And if customers are still not happy, they can return their undamaged iPhone within 30 days for a full refund, with the restocking fee waived. Friday July 16, 2010 1:32
That's it, free bumpers. No hardware fix.
1:33 iPhone 4's have also exhibited issues with the proximity sensor behaving out of wack, so Apple's been tracking this problem as well and is currently working on a solution which it hopes to deliver in the next iOS 4 software update. Friday July 16, 2010 1:33
1:34 Meanwhile, the company is pushing forward with its international rollout of the handset and will be launching the iPhone in 17 more countries on July 17th -- the same 17 it promised previously with the exception of South Korea. Friday July 16, 2010 1:34
Well, unless he is lying, they haven't gotten that many complaints about the iPhone. So I guess I can understand their not seeing this as a major issue.
Ah well. I'm done emoing over it. I still have some time before I have to decide on the iPhone or not.
King
Market looks awful today, not good...
Hm they were just saying on twitLive that the market was reacting favourably.
Quote from: billybob476 on July 16, 2010, 10:48:34 AM
Hm they were just saying on twitLive that the market was reacting favourably.
Apple stock is a little up. it's the overall market which is having a bad day.
Anyways, looks like we get them up here at the end of the month and per my contract the wife and I can upgrade in September. We'll see how things shake out by then. Steve mentioned in the QA section that they free bumper deal lasts until end of Sept. At that point they will reevaluate.
About the response I expected. It's good they are doing something, but I have feeling this isn't over. The biggest problem down the road I see for them is when the eventual new version of the iPhone arrives and the antenna issue is really fixed. I wonder what people might do or say then?
The bumper didn't work for me. I returned it. No clue why but it didn't. So, not sure what I want to do at this point now. Oh well...life goes on. Steve Jobs did do a good job of redirecting, gotta give him that. I'm still an Apple fan, still like the iPhone 4. Perhaps with the new iOS it'll improve a bit. No clue. Rock on!
Again, it depends on signal strength in your area and keeping you hand far enough away from the phone's antenna area so you don't block the signal. A bumper might not be enough for some. Others have reported similar troubles.
I'm just waiting for the badge communicator with the A on it! For AL! :)
Now these guys who came up with the idea of selling these have the right idea. :)
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/21/a-joke-iphone-sticker-turns-into-a-business/?src=mv (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/21/a-joke-iphone-sticker-turns-into-a-business/?src=mv)
Haha, that's awesome. Also if it works it's actually somewhat unoffensive, especially the gray one.
LOL! That's great. :)
I'd almost buy one of those if I needed it. Humour value alone would justify it.
If anyone is still on a 3G like me and has been experiencing issues under iOS4, I found this on Lifehacker. I tried it and apps do load much quicker:
http://lifehacker.com/5599406/disable-spotlight-searches-to-improve-iphone-3g-performance-on-ios-4 (http://lifehacker.com/5599406/disable-spotlight-searches-to-improve-iphone-3g-performance-on-ios-4)
I've been finding it interesting how many of the big tech folks out there seem to be going Driod. Leo, Cali, Kevin, etc. I was shocked about Cali Lewis. She lives and breathes Apple products. But to put this in perspective, most of them are moving due to call and signal issues. Most likely AT&T is a big factor. Anyway, just interesting to me.
Yeah, here in Toronto I have no issues with service coverage.
I'm just giving that a try. No noticable improvement yet but then I'm at work and not really playing with the 'phone at the moment.
Jailbreak your iPhone 4! And I guess it's legal - at least in the US.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=258165 (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=258165)
This morning Credit Suisse put out a research report upgrading the shares of Verizon in anticipation of the iPhone being available on their network in Q1 of 2011. We'll see, but where there's smoke....
Quote from: Rico on August 02, 2010, 07:26:02 AM
Jailbreak your iPhone 4! And I guess it's legal - at least in the US.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=258165 (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=258165)
It's legal but it doesn't stop Apple from voiding your warranty.
Anyways, very excited that Fran's iPhone 4 will be arriving before the end of the month.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 20, 2010, 06:08:32 AM
This morning Credit Suisse put out a research report upgrading the shares of Verizon in anticipation of the iPhone being available on their network in Q1 of 2011. We'll see, but where there's smoke....
That's of course if the iPhone 4 doesn't crack Verizon's network and make everyone wish they had AT&T ;)
King
:), King, you crack me up!
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 20, 2010, 07:27:37 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 20, 2010, 06:08:32 AM
This morning Credit Suisse put out a research report upgrading the shares of Verizon in anticipation of the iPhone being available on their network in Q1 of 2011. We'll see, but where there's smoke....
That's of course if the iPhone 4 doesn't crack Verizon's network and make everyone wish they had AT&T ;)
King
Getting more fire! I told you King, you needed to have faiith! :)
Apple is expected to build its first 3 million Verizon-compatible CDMA iPhones in December 2010, contacts in the company's overseas supply chain reportedly indicated.
Analyst Jeffrey Fidacaro with Susquehanna Financial Group said in a note to investors on Wednesday that checks with overseas suppliers indicated Apple is prepared to build 3 million CDMA iPhones in December, keeping the device on track for an early 2011 launch. That would put total GSM and CDMA iPhone production for the quarter at between 21 million and 22 million.
For the current quarter, suppliers reportedly said that Apple is set to build between 18.2 million and 18.4 million GSM-only iPhones. Fidacaro noted those numbers are "well above investor expectations," because display panel constraints with LG Display have been resolved.
Fidacaro expects Apple to sell a record 11.6 million iPhones in the fourth quarter of the company's fiscal 2010. That would be a 39 percent increase from the 8.4 million handsets the company sold in the third quarter of fiscal 2010.
"We expect the September 25 launch of iPhone in China and Apple's target of making the iPhone available in 88 countries by month end to aid results in 4QFY10," he wrote. "Our checks show that Apple is still struggling with yields on the mass production of the white iPhone 4."
As for the iPad, suppliers were said to have plans to build 7 million units for the current quarter, a 56 percent increase from the previous three-month frame. Fidacaro expects Apple to ship 4.75 million units int he current quarter, which would be 45 percent growth from last quarter, to reach a total of 13.4 million units in calendar 2010.
In addition, MacBook build rates are said to be at more than 3 million for the quarter, while production forecasts for the newly refreshed iPod lineup are at 12 million. Fidacaro also expects a "modest" start for the new Apple TV, with several hundred thousand units built at launch, ramping up to about a million units in December.
"While the lower price point, Netflix integration, and better streaming (AirPlay) functionality makes the product more compelling than the original device, expectations remain low, in our view," he said.
Susquehanna Financial Group has a positive rating for AAPL stock, and has maintained its $365 price target.
Earlier this year, before the iPad was announced, Fidacaro conducted an assumed component breakdown on the then-mythical device, projecting it to include a 4200RPM spinning hard drive and an Intel Atom mobile processor.
I still won't regret my decision to switch from Verizon in all honesty. I think people are putting way too much faith on the carrier, but Verizon hasn't been stressed like AT&T has and time will tell if they can handle the iPhone or not. The Droid hasn't been that popular in comparison. Be interesting to see how Verizon works with it.
And yes, Droid has been growing in popularity, but Verizon has had time to adapt to the popularity. AT&T didn't have as much time. I'm just sayin. ;)
and holy moly Bryan that is a lot of numbers. ;)
King
It will be interesting to see how the introduction of the iPhone to the Verizon platform impacts Droid sales.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 22, 2010, 08:29:53 AM
It will be interesting to see how the introduction of the iPhone to the Verizon platform impacts Droid sales.
Indeed. It won't kill Droid because a good chunk of droid users are those who dislike Apple's phone/policy. But it shall be interesting.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 22, 2010, 08:32:55 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 22, 2010, 08:29:53 AM
It will be interesting to see how the introduction of the iPhone to the Verizon platform impacts Droid sales.
Indeed. It won't kill Droid because a good chunk of droid users are those who dislike Apple's phone/policy. But it shall be interesting.
King
True, but they have been exclusive to AT&T for a while now, so I think there are also a lot of Droid users who would have bought the iPhone had it been available.
200,000 iPhone 4G's ordered in China since the Saturday launch. China Unicom had to close down their online store to try and catch-up.
Too bad China blocks a lot of the Internet from the people.
"No Treks in Sci-Fi podcast for you! That capitalist show! You no live long and prosper here!!"
:biggrin
Quote from: Rico on September 27, 2010, 07:09:09 AM
Too bad China blocks a lot of the Internet from the people.
"No Treks in Sci-Fi podcast for you! That capitalist show! You no live long and prosper here!!"
:biggrin
ROTFLMAO!!!!
Ha ha ha brilliant nice one Rico.
I wonder if they will sell a lot of the "Proxy App" in the China iTunes store that lets them actually surf ALL of the web from China and not just what the government is ok with? LOL!
iPhone 4 announced to be coming to Verizon. Well, shocking. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703735804575536191649347572.html?ru=yahoo&mod=yahoo_hs (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703735804575536191649347572.html?ru=yahoo&mod=yahoo_hs)
It doesn't bother me that I switched early though, I personally think if a lot of people switch to Verizon, it'll really cause their system to overload. Not to mention, I haven't been overly impressed with Verizon as of late. Time will tell on how Verizon can adapt to iPhone and how AT&T will fare through this no-doubt rough period.
King
Android phones are currently outselling all others, including the iPhone. They are still behind on total market share, but seem to be catching up fast.
According to new numbers from Nielsen, sales of Android phones outpaced those of both BlackBerrys and the iPhone over the last six months. Android accounted for 32-percent of smartphone sales, with Apple and RIM's BlackBerry making up 25 and 26-percent respectively. At 19-percent total market share, Android still has a way to go to catch the iPhone and BlackBerry, but Google's mobile OS is closing in fast.
source:
http://www.switched.com/2010/10/06/android-outsells-iphone-blackberry-among-new-phone-buyers/ (http://www.switched.com/2010/10/06/android-outsells-iphone-blackberry-among-new-phone-buyers/)
From that graphic it seems like Apple is competing with RIM and not Droid. When RIM makes gains, Apple dips and vice versa. It also appears that while Droid is on the rise, Rim and Apple might be reaching stability.
Keep in mind that's just sales in 2010, not market share. But, I have heard A LOT of people in the tech area who are really enjoying the Droid OS and the app. store is becoming pretty competitive too.
P.S. Where's Bryan been? I'm sure he will have something to say about all this. ;)
Quote from: Rico on October 08, 2010, 06:15:46 AM
Keep in mind that's just sales in 2010, not market share. But, I have heard A LOT of people in the tech area who are really enjoying the Droid OS and the app. store is becoming pretty competitive too.
P.S. Where's Bryan been? I'm sure he will have something to say about all this. ;)
My new device has droid and I love it. It's really easy to use and more open than iOS in a lot of ways. Flash doesn't hurt either.
Isn't he in Kona? I think that there might be iPad reception issues there.
The graph makes it appear that RIM is losing sales to Android and that Apple sales are not as volatile. I wonder if that graph includes all the buy one get one free deals going on right now. Android phones are gaining due to a lot of 'deals' which Apple does not offer.
Does this graph include iPad sales? Probably not since it is not a phone device.
Quote from: RickPeete on October 08, 2010, 06:43:51 AM
The graph makes it appear that RIM is losing sales to Android and that Apple sales are not as volatile. I wonder if that graph includes all the buy one get one free deals going on right now. Android phones are gaining due to a lot of 'deals' which Apple does not offer.
Does this graph include iPad sales? Probably not since it is not a phone device.
Losing sales to Android? Both are losing sales to Android, but the activity between Rim and Apple are almost a mirror of Each other. Every time Apple goes down, RIm goes up and vice versa. As for volatile, Apple starts of at 32% and ends at 25%. Rim starts at 34 and ends at 26, but droid rises from 14 to 32? If RIM is volatile, then Apple should be as well because they are almost mirrors in their sales. Except it took a bit longer for Driod sales to force a major dip in RIM sales.
Quote from: X on October 08, 2010, 06:54:46 AM
Quote from: RickPeete on October 08, 2010, 06:43:51 AM
The graph makes it appear that RIM is losing sales to Android and that Apple sales are not as volatile. I wonder if that graph includes all the buy one get one free deals going on right now. Android phones are gaining due to a lot of 'deals' which Apple does not offer.
Does this graph include iPad sales? Probably not since it is not a phone device.
Losing sales to Android? Both are losing sales to Android, but the activity between Rim and Apple are almost a mirror of Each other. Every time Apple goes down, RIm goes up and vice versa. As for volatile, Apple starts of at 32% and ends at 25%. Rim starts at 34 and ends at 26, but droid rises from 14 to 32? If RIM is volatile, then Apple should be as well because they are almost mirrors in their sales. Except it took a bit longer for Driod sales to force a major dip in RIM sales.
This trend may end if Apple is coming to Verizon. A lot of demand has been there for the iPhone to come to Verizon so that will also hurt droid sales as that is most of Verizon's phone lineup atm.
King
Here I am! Yes, in Kona on the iPad, race tomorrow! So analyst research is showing that a lot of Droid customers would have purchased an iPhone instead had it been available on the Verizon network. I mentioned before Droid is doing great because it is a good device and has exclusivity on Verizon..until now. As I always said, just watch now how Droid competes directly with Apple and I think we will see a dramatic change in those numbers.
While it certainly will change things when the iPhone is available on Verizon, I think it might not be quite as much as you might think. I know quite a few that switched to Droid that had iPhones. In any case, it's nice to have a few good options. The last thing I'd want to see is for less competition to happen. Competition means better products and at lower prices.
It looks like the iPhone 4 is also having some trouble with it's glass surface cracking. Read on,...
Apple has a new iPhone 4 crisis on its hands
Ryan Block of Gdgt reports some third party iPhone 4 cases can lead to the glass back of the phone being cracked.
How? If the iPhone 4 is slipped into a case small bits can get caught between the case and the phone. These "particulate matter" can cause small scratches which can eventually become big cracks, says Block.
Even without the particulate, the phone can get scratched, leading to the same problem, it seems.
This has sent Apple's engineers into a "quiet panic" trying to come up with a solution to the problem. Apple wants to "preempt any further tarnishing the iPhone brand," writes Block.
Apple just put Antennagate in it's rear view mirror, and Block has already labeled this problem Glassgate.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-glass-problem-2010-10 (http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-glass-problem-2010-10)
That's what you get for making something out of glass! Screens have suffered for years it's just now we have the back at risk too but...I knew how it was made before I bought mine. I'd get very cross if it broke but probably wouldn't throw my hands in the air and say 'Oh no! Glass breaks! Calamity!' as some seem to be doing.
It's really silly to make the back out of glass. Makes no sense at all to me. You are just asking for trouble and there is no reason for it to be there.
Yeah it was a serious design flaw. I know Apple have this thing about plastic but hell the iphone 3G that I have is pretty sturdy.
Seems to me Glass would be stronger than plastic, wouldn't it? Or am I off my rocker again ;)
Although really, how is anyone surprised at this problem? It's glass, it cracks, breaks etc. Try throwing yourself at your own window and then tell me glass is completely indestructible. ;)
Oh and point me in the direction of an Android Phone that can't break and I'll give you a million dollars. Hah! :P
King
Quote from: Rico on October 08, 2010, 08:52:23 AM
While it certainly will change things when the iPhone is available on Verizon, I think it might not be quite as much as you might think. s
It's not what I think, it's what actual research survey is showing. It' s upwards of 40 percent of Droid buyers surveyed. Keep in mind, this is done by the same analysts who predicted the iPhone and iPad success and it would be wise to take note.
No, glass is certainly not stronger than most plastics. But to put glass on the back of something like this that you set down a lot on it's back, hold from behind, etc. is not a good design. It was done for purely aesthetic reasons - not function. Which is of course something Apple does all the time. I mean why make these devices for looks when you immediately have to stick them in a case to protect them?
And yes Tim, everything can break. But a designer should certainly try to minimize the potential of that as much as they can. You need glass on the front for the display, you don't need it on the back.
Quote from: Bryancd on October 08, 2010, 12:39:10 PM
Quote from: Rico on October 08, 2010, 08:52:23 AM
While it certainly will change things when the iPhone is available on Verizon, I think it might not be quite as much as you might think. s
It's not what I think, it's what actual research survey is showing. It' s upwards of 40 percent of Droid buyers surveyed. Keep in mind, this is done by the same analysts who predicted the iPhone and iPad success and it would be wise to take note.
I can confirm this myself, with the exception of a few people, I know many who would have taken the iPhone over their current droid models, but were restricted to Verizon.
King
As far as which phone, then why buy a Droid if you don't like it or want it?? What Droid phones are you talking about Tim?
Quote from: Rico on October 08, 2010, 12:45:16 PM
As far as which phone, then why buy a Droid if you don't like it or want it?? What Droid phones are you talking about Tim?
No, no, I was talking in reference to indestructibility. Everyone gets so "shocked and amazed" that the iPhone has flaws. And while I may think it's the perfect phone for me, (and everyone else because I'm a "sheep" ;)) I know it's not perfect at everything. All phones wear, tear and break. Depending on the conditions and how it was manufactured. And of course I was just pre-empting any droid fans by saying their phones are no better in terms of indestructibility. :P
Quote from: Rico on October 08, 2010, 12:45:16 PM
As far as which phone, then why buy a Droid if you don't like it or want it?? What Droid phones are you talking about Tim?
Verizon customers have had no other option of any worth other than Droid. Droid has not had to compete with iPhone on that network until now. Watch how the sales skew going forward.
Quote from: Bryancd on October 08, 2010, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: Rico on October 08, 2010, 12:45:16 PM
As far as which phone, then why buy a Droid if you don't like it or want it?? What Droid phones are you talking about Tim?
Verizon customers have had no other option of any worth other than Droid. Droid has not had to compete with iPhone on that network until now. Watch how the sales skew going forward.
And how many phones on T-mobile and Sprint are Droid-OS based? I wonder if the droid numbers are slightly scewed just through sheer number of customers just choosing the phone just because it exists in their store? With Apple, people had to seek it out, but Droid saturates the entire market so it could be the "net-factor" playing into it.
King
Tim,
I'm only talking now about a glass back. And I think that's a problem and a bad design. Let me put this another way...
When I decide to buy something I try and make sure it's something that suits my needs and is a solid product. You always have to weigh the pros and cons of anything for your use and needs. But I don't usually compare it to other things once I get it. I just want whatever I select to be the best it can be. Like when I decided on the car I got. It doesn't matter to me if other cars breakdown too, I just don't want my car to breakdown or have issues. Hope that helps to get my point across.
P.S. And as I have said many times, I think the iPhone is a very good product. But I just would do a few things different with it to make it even better.
Quote from: Rico on October 08, 2010, 01:01:41 PM
Tim,
I'm only talking now about a glass back. And I think that's a problem and a bad design. Let me put this another way...
When I decide to buy something I try and make sure it's something that suits my needs and is a solid product. You always have to weigh the pros and cons of anything for your use and needs. But I don't usually compare it to other things once I get it. I just want whatever I select to be the best it can be. Like when I decided on the car I got. It doesn't matter to me if other cars breakdown too, I just don't want my car to breakdown or have issues. Hope that helps to get my point across.
P.S. And as I have said many times, I think the iPhone is a very good product. But I just would do a few things different with it to make it even better.
Ok, I get you now. And that's perfectly understandable.
I wonder if Apple is going to bother with the glass back in the 5th Gen. It's paused the White iPhone 4 production, it forced a new antenna design which some claim to be flawed (but I have had no personal experience to say otherwise) and now this latest "issue". The pros are certainly starting to outweigh the cons on this one.
King
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 08, 2010, 12:26:54 PM
Seems to me Glass would be stronger than plastic, wouldn't it? Or am I off my rocker again ;)
Although really, how is anyone surprised at this problem? It's glass, it cracks, breaks etc. Try throwing yourself at your own window and then tell me glass is completely indestructible. ;)
Oh and point me in the direction of an Android Phone that can't break and I'll give you a million dollars. Hah! :P
King
Yeah you're pretty much wrong able glass being stronger than plastic. If you throw a glass at a wall, or drop it, it breaks. That's not a case with plastics. In fact, most "bullet proof" glass is actually layers of plastic or glass sandwiching a plastic core.
No one is saying that you can't break a droid phone, but merely pointing out that when you build something out of a substance with a lower break threshold, they sort of break.
Drop a normal phone and there is a change for breakage expecially if you drop it on the glass.
Drop a iphone 4 an it will, unless it hits a corner, always land on glass.
Yeah! X - is here. I'll tag you in man! ;)
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 08, 2010, 01:05:51 PM
I wonder if Apple is going to bother with the glass back in the 5th Gen. It's paused the White iPhone 4 production, it forced a new antenna design which some claim to be flawed (but I have had no personal experience to say otherwise) and now this latest "issue". The pros are certainly starting to outweigh the cons on this one.
King
Pros outweighing the cons? I don't get what you mean? You mentioned two very real design flaws that are causing issues. What pros are there to a glass back and a the current antenna design? You also said that people "claim" that this is an issue. It's more than just a claim, it's a documented fact. People claim things like the moon landing was faked or bigfoot is real. Maybe you picked the wrong word because the flaws aren't some mass illusion generated by a bunch of iPhone haters that bought the phone just to complain.
Having a phone that can't stand up to the dropping that most phones experience, well ... because they are phone is a serious consumer flaw. Not so much for apple because they get to turn a profit by getting you to buy another, but for everyone else that works for a living and can't afford to constantly treat the iPhone like delicate temperamental that needs to be held in a certain way to function without buying accessories.
Ahh the Apple Forums......
For what it's worth I think the Droid is technically superior. I am a BB user so I don't have a stake in either one of them. I just thought the screens and the mutlithreading on the Droid was nice.
I also prefer the Droid's SDK more.....
Quote from: X on October 08, 2010, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 08, 2010, 01:05:51 PM
I wonder if Apple is going to bother with the glass back in the 5th Gen. It's paused the White iPhone 4 production, it forced a new antenna design which some claim to be flawed (but I have had no personal experience to say otherwise) and now this latest "issue". The pros are certainly starting to outweigh the cons on this one.
King
Pros outweighing the cons? I don't get what you mean? You mentioned two very real design flaws that are causing issues. What pros are there to a glass back and a the current antenna design? You also said that people "claim" that this is an issue. It's more than just a claim, it's a documented fact. People claim things like the moon landing was faked or bigfoot is real. Maybe you picked the wrong word because the flaws aren't some mass illusion generated by a bunch of iPhone haters that bought the phone just to complain.
Having a phone that can't stand up to the dropping that most phones experience, well ... because they are phone is a serious consumer flaw. Not so much for apple because they get to turn a profit by getting you to buy another, but for everyone else that works for a living and can't afford to constantly treat the iPhone like delicate temperamental that needs to be held in a certain way to function without buying accessories.
X_X, that is what I get for posting at the last minute before I drive off for work, I mean CONS outweighing the PROS. I also didn't mean to put issue in quotes either. I understand that it's an actual issue and not a hoax. From what I understand the glass is supposed to withstand most drops, but yes, it is glass after all and impacts sooner or later will break it.
King
I am looking for the next i phone come next June. From the rumor mill this one is suppose to sport a new design format. Unfortunately it is not looking like it will be 4G since AT&T is taking their sweet time on 4G services. Must say I am looking forward to finally get rid of my 3g!
Be very careful with those iPhone 4's. More stories coming out saying they are much more prone to breakage than previous iPhone versions. Here's one of the recent stories:
This may not be news to you if you have one, but iPhone (News - Alert) 4 handsets break a lot more often than previous iPhone handsets, according to SquareTrade, a company that provides warranties. The company based its conclusions on a study of the responses of 20,000 people with warranties on their iPhones. Reported accidents for the iPhone 4 are up 68 percent compared with its immediate predecessor, the iPhone 3GS.
So where's the Achille's heel on the iPhone 4? It's the screen, according to SquareTrade. Broken screens constitute 82 percent of the accident claims on the iPhone 4, a figure that is up 82 percent from broken screen claims for the iPhone 3GS. Overall, the reported accident rate for iPhone 4s was 68 percent higher than that of the 3GS. Extrapolating the data, this means that an estimated 15.5 percent of iPhone 4 owners will have an accident within the first year of buying their new phone.
"Interpreting the results more broadly, the iPhone 4 appears to be significantly more likely to break than previous versions, as we speculated back in our June iPhone report. Not only has the scratchable surface area doubled, the new aluminosilicate Gorilla glass used in the iPhone 4 doesn't seem any less likely to break than previous models," said SquareTrade.
According to SquareTrade, the broken glass problems were not confined to only the front screen. Noted the company, "While our data doesn't identify which broken screens resulted from dirt trapped behind a slide case, at least a quarter of the broken glass claims involved the back screen. With 82 percent more cracked screens reported, the evidence suggests that the iPhone 4 is more vulnerable to physical damage than its predecessor."
source:
http://iphone.tmcnet.com/topics/iphone/articles/108400-got-an-iphone-4-its-68-percent-more.htm (http://iphone.tmcnet.com/topics/iphone/articles/108400-got-an-iphone-4-its-68-percent-more.htm)
Another similar report here:
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/10/stats_iphone_4_glass_case_accidents_almost_double_of_the_3gs.html (http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/10/stats_iphone_4_glass_case_accidents_almost_double_of_the_3gs.html)
Somebody retweeted a tweet by the fake Steve Jobs which made me chuckle:
"If your iPhone 4 breaks when it hits the ground then you're dropping it wrong."
:)
Quote from: Dangelus on October 13, 2010, 10:09:52 AM
Somebody retweeted a tweet by the fake Steve Jobs which made me chuckle:
"If your iPhone 4 breaks when it hits the ground then you're dropping it wrong."
:)
Oh, I love that! LOL!!! :)
I love internet hysteria. :) Reminds of the antenna problem, remember that one? Me neither. ;)
Quote from: Bryancd on October 13, 2010, 11:04:21 AM
I love internet hysteria. :) Reminds of the antenna problem, remember that one? Me neither. ;)
Not hysteria, facts. And Apple certainly remembers the antenna issue. In fact, they are still working on it.
But you know...Joyce has a terrible time with phones. She drops them ALL the time and she in fact, already dropped her iPhone4 twice. Once from a height of about 4 feet or so and it was absolutely fine.
Quote from: QuadShot on October 13, 2010, 12:52:59 PM
But you know...Joyce has a terrible time with phones. She drops them ALL the time and she in fact, already dropped her iPhone4 twice. Once from a height of about 4 feet or so and it was absolutely fine.
Sounds very lucky. What type of surface did she drop it on? Four feet to concrete just seems like it would be nasty to glass. ;)
The tile in our kitchen. Yep, she is very lucky. I know that Apple had said early on that the new glass in the iPhone 4 would be virtually unbreakable, but I NEVER put much stock in something when it's advertised as such.
a bit too much anti-Apple glee round here these days isn't there. ;)
Fran loves her iPhone4. She has a snap case so no worries there. iPhones rule!
Quote from: Feathers on October 14, 2010, 01:35:57 PM
a bit too much anti-Apple glee round here these days isn't there. ;)
I love mine :)
King
Quote from: Feathers on October 14, 2010, 01:35:57 PM
a bit too much anti-Apple glee round here these days isn't there. ;)
Not anti-Apple. Just anti-poor engineering and design choices.
Quote from: Rico on October 14, 2010, 02:18:32 PM
Quote from: Feathers on October 14, 2010, 01:35:57 PM
a bit too much anti-Apple glee round here these days isn't there. ;)
Not anti-Apple. Just anti-poor engineering and design choices.
Yeah. My problem is that this is all opinion based. Bad in whose view? What is 'bad'? None of these things are set in stone and are all matters of personal opinion.
If someone makes something from glass, fine. It's not 'bad' as such just a design choice. I guess I have a problem with the very black and white nature of the opinions being expressed as if they're absolute truth.
Opinions? The issues with the antenna were verified multiple times - no opinion there. The glass front and back breaks more easily. This has been verified by more iPhone 4 breakage than previous models. I see no opinions here for those facts. I'm not understanding you Mike.
Now, of course it is perfectly fine to pick whatever they want for their phone and their design. And maybe this is where the opinion comes in. Do you guys honestly think if they had not put a glass back on the iPhone 4 it would have hurt sales somehow? I would say a non-glass back with less of a chance of breakage would have been a much better way to go. And certainly saved some broken iPhones.
I personally like the aesthetic choice but no, I doubt it would have hurts sales that much, if at all. I still would have bought the iPhone glass or not.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 14, 2010, 03:36:38 PM
I personally like the aesthetic choice but no, I doubt it would have hurts sales that much, if at all. I still would have bought the iPhone glass or not.
Thanks for that Tim. Again, I really do like the iPhone and still might get one someday. I just think a couple things different wouldn't have hurt their bottom line and made much better sense. Heck, I'm scared about dropping my phone all the time - which I did drop once onto a concrete parking lot and it was ok.
Well, I think the issue with "facts" that Mike is suggesting is that the design choice was made as it clearly has appeal to the consumer at large and there very well may have been an engineering reason for it, it's a fact that no one on this board can answer that. It's the same with the antenna. An design and engineering choice was made which resulted in SOME of the phones have reception issues. But these "facts" don't seem to have any material impact on the popularity of the device and may add and enhance a users experience, so that's where they become "opinions". If you are afraid of dropping it and breaking the glass or thinks the antenna issue is a problem for you, don't buy it. That's where these "facts" fall short to the power of everything the device has done correctly.
I should just stay out of this thread from now on I think. Mainly, I've just been trying to point out some issues that have been seen by others to help inform people about potential problems. As the phrase goes, "I have no horse in this race." I really don't care if they sell one or 1 billion of these things. So, maybe it's just better if I stop trying.
I dropped my blackberry 3x's. I would hate to see what a iPhone would look like after that...
Quote from: Rico on October 14, 2010, 04:24:50 PM
I should just stay out of this thread from now on I think. Mainly, I've just been trying to point out some issues that have been seen by others to help inform people about potential problems. As the phrase goes, "I have no horse in this race." I really don't care if they sell one or 1 billion of these things. So, maybe it's just better if I stop trying.
No, that's silly. Don't try and interpret tone on the internet, no one here has any upset. It's just a conversation. :)
What I have found is a fact is that the vast majority of people who are a bit biased against Apple products are IT folks and those with a strong tech knowledge and interests. It's been that way for years, for as long as I have owned their products and been an investor in the company. Tech web sites and blogs HATE Apple with a passion and will always be quick to try and point out problems with their products. And they very well may be correct in doing so. They broke the antenna story and now this. The problem is their hyperbole often includes rhetoric like this is the death of the iPhone! iPhone recall coming!!! And that's where they loose credibility. Sure, some iPhone's had reception issues, but Apple and AT&T knew the extent of them and they were minor. You would never get that reading some of the articles posted. Now this, more of the same. At the end of the day, people LOVE their products and that makes the tech community completely frustrated. Technology for the rest of us needs to be simple. I have said it again and again. Apple makes my technology experience seamless. Therein lies their genius.
..And Rico, you are a tech guy, so your bias as such comes through. I am biased as someone who could care less about the tech and just want it spoon fed to me. :)
I would say tech people are not biased, well not all. Most tech people I know own Apple products of some kind. I think it's that we know the technology more and are harder on it. There is actually more biased against Microsoft products and AMD vs Intel in my world.
Quote from: Bryancd on October 14, 2010, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: Rico on October 14, 2010, 04:24:50 PM
I should just stay out of this thread from now on I think. Mainly, I've just been trying to point out some issues that have been seen by others to help inform people about potential problems. As the phrase goes, "I have no horse in this race." I really don't care if they sell one or 1 billion of these things. So, maybe it's just better if I stop trying.
No, that's silly. Don't try and interpret tone on the internet, no one here has any upset. It's just a conversation. :)
What I have found is a fact is that the vast majority of people who are a bit biased against Apple products are IT folks and those with a strong tech knowledge and interests. It's been that way for years, for as long as I have owned their products and been an investor in the company. Tech web sites and blogs HATE Apple with a passion and will always be quick to try and point out problems with their products. And they very well may be correct in doing so. They broke the antenna story and now this. The problem is their hyperbole often includes rhetoric like this is the death of the iPhone! iPhone recall coming!!! And that's where they loose credibility. Sure, some iPhone's had reception issues, but Apple and AT&T knew the extent of them and they were minor. You would never get that reading some of the articles posted. Now this, more of the same. At the end of the day, people LOVE their products and that makes the tech community completely frustrated. Technology for the rest of us needs to be simple. I have said it again and again. Apple makes my technology experience seamless. Therein lies their genius.
..And Rico, you are a tech guy, so your bias as such comes through. I am biased as someone who could care less about the tech and just want it spoon fed to me. :)
And you nailed it on the head. Despite my knowledge of computers, I'm still pretty illiterate, so when it comes to mobile devices, I pretty much demand they work flawlessly and without a lot of battery issues. The reason why is because I've had to deal with some pretty crappy technology in the form of laptops and Palm devices. (Long story). iPhone so far has met this demand and then some. I was quite frankly amazed a full charge on the iPhone 4 lasted me an entire "work" day as I didn't expect that sort of battery life.
Droid seems to be suffering from battery problems I've heard, their App store is not perfect and they amusingly have to root their phones to get them working as expected. (Or in iPhone terms, almost-Jailbreak). So their knee-jerk reaction to slamming the iPhone is both ironic and annoying to me. Both phones at this point have their greats and their minuses. I think both are too in-grained to die at this point, short of either company failing to care developing them.
What I suspect we will see next year is an explosion of iPhone users. Since by all accounts it looks like the iPhone is coming to Verizon, this is an untapped market that will no doubt sell many, many iPhones. After that, it will equalize out. I doubt Droid will die even if the iPhone is brought to each and every network. It's OS is too much loved and many prefer open-OS development compared to the restrictions enforced by Apple. Which is perfectly acceptable to me, it's your product, your choice.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 14, 2010, 05:42:27 PM
It's OS is too much loved and many prefer open-OS development compared to the restrictions enforced by Apple. Which is perfectly acceptable to me, it's your product, your choice.
King
You got that right. Apple has way too many restrictions on their stuff. Drives me nuts!
Quote from: Blackride on October 14, 2010, 05:44:07 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 14, 2010, 05:42:27 PM
It's OS is too much loved and many prefer open-OS development compared to the restrictions enforced by Apple. Which is perfectly acceptable to me, it's your product, your choice.
King
You got that right. Apple has way too many restrictions on their stuff. Drives me nuts!
Of course, because you are a tech guy! I could care less, their restrictions mean nothing to me. I don't write code, don't understand software protocols, I just wan it to work and be easy.
Sorry, I wasn't suggesting any dispute on the facts. I can squeeze reception out of my phone as well as the next man. I think I was more suggesting a level of cynicism on Apples part having designed and released the thing like this. It was more a suggestion that Apple had pretty much done this deliberately so try were doing morbid more than seeing the risks of their design maturing one by one. As such, it's neither good nor bad. Simply a fact.
Admittedly, I come at from an engineering background so none of these issues has really surprised me. From the perspective of the normal man-in-the-street perhaps things are a little starker on their contrast.
Certainly not upset :)
Bryan -
You said I am biased. I am not biased in any way for or against the iPhone. I just have been presenting articles and information that has been documented in labs and from actual iPhone users. From that data I have said that it seems to me that some of these "design choices" may not have been the best. Does that make it a bad product, not at all. Nothing is perfect, you always have to weigh the benefits of anything vs. the cons. Lets say you are a really klutzy person or live in an area with poor AT&T coverage. Maybe an iPhone wouldn't work best for you. Again, it really doesn't matter a lot to me. But as someone who stays up on tech, listens to a lot of tech podcasts, reads a lot of magazine and tech websites, I like to pass on what I have read & learned. Obviously it's up to everyone to make up their own mind on what phone to buy and use.
You mistunderstand my use of the word biased. It's not a negative connotation, it reflects the fact that you are a technically Savoy person and as such have a much feeper understanding of how technology works and what kind of technology can be used to achieve similar results. You can build a computer, to me that's alchemy! That deep knowledge biases you towards a very different kind of approach to how you evaluate technology that is far different from say mine. You are assuming being biased is a bad thing, it's not, unless it's against people for example. I don't think you dislike Apple or the iPhone, not at all and as you say, who cares. You are biased against technology you see that is lacking. I can't get there as I don't understand a lot of it, so that's my bias/perspective.
I think that some people might think that others think that Apple is crap when they point out the flaws of the device. That's not the case, but for all the blind praise of Apple, it helps to have someone there to point out the problems.
I personally can't see buying something without "checking under the hood first". You might think it's a tech bias, but it's not. I can build a computer, but I can't build a car engine from scratch. Can't build a tv either, but I refuse to not have some clue of what my products can do, what their limitations are, and if the company is giving me the best deal. I can't support treating anything like a magic box where we don't need to know anything about how it works and just accept that it works.
Take routers for instance. In most cases, the first generations of Lynksys routers are superior products to later generations. Sure the model numbers are the same, but that little change in version numbers and drops in price are usually going hand in hand with less memory and slower chips.
Had I taken the magic box approach, I would not have learned this.
I don't hate Apple, but I do have a problem with how they do some things. I also have a problem with Kindle as well, but for different reasons.
Sure we could hold hand and sing the praises of all the companies we like out there, but is that really a good exchange of information for those interested in the product?
Agreed Chris. How about just once you guys post a link to a positive article? ;)
Quote from: Bryancd on October 15, 2010, 06:27:19 AM
Agreed Chris. How about just once you guys post a link to a positive article? ;)
Because we have you for that! A debate, any good debate needs two sides presenting the case.
I like to think I'm more in the middle of this range (though I might be wrong). I HATE how Apple is dropping the ball on supporting older versions of the phone. My iPhone 3G is virtually unusable at this point. That angers me to no end. With that in mind, I still love my iPhone. Fran has an iPhone 4, she loves it too. I have friends who have various Android handsets and they love them. A friend of mine is buying into Windows Phone 7 when the handsets become available.
On the other hand, as it is with Microsoft and Windows security flaws, Apple gets put under a microscope because they are on top. Would this screen cracking issue be a big deal if it was a Motorola or Nokia phone? I mean, if you drop a phone on the floor and the screen (or the back) cracks, is that really a huge surprise? If you slide a case on the phone with a jagged piece of something in the case and it scratches the phone, again is this surprising?
If I stab my phone with a knife or throw it against a wall and it breaks, does that mean the company made a bad phone?
Sometimes we have to check ourselves that we are judging the hardware based on it's merits, not on our opinion of the company that makes it. Not saying that anyone is in this thread, just making a point :)
Joe,
On the glass issue, the thing I had read and passed on was mainly about using glass on the back of the device where it really is not needed. Of course, any phone can break if dropped, etc. For the front screen you don't have much of a choice but to use glass. But the back is a different story. Where is that transparent aluminum?!?! ;)
Oh I know, it's been all over the "blogosphere", sure it's more fragile then it needs to be. I don't deny that.
I read a report recently that Apple is one of the most news covered tech companies around. Everyone it seems writes about them. It's partly their own doing that these things get looked at so closely, with their big event announcements, press, Steve Jobs, etc. What's that phrase, there is no such thing as bad publicity? Although, I'm not sure I agree with that completely.
Apple announced their 4th quarter earning the other day and they have continued to make large gains in the enterprise space. The iPad is being adopted by Proctor and Gamble, General Electric, Hyatt Hotels, and NBC Universal. iPhone also continues to make inroads into enetrprise.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/interviews/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=227900335&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_All# (http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/interviews/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=227900335&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_All#)
Crazy, yet not unexpected. I'm curious as to what those companies were using before they switched to the iPhone.
King
I'd assume almost exclusively blackberries.
Quote from: billybob476 on October 21, 2010, 07:01:21 AM
I'd assume almost exclusively blackberries.
Probably a safe bet. If something simpler was USD before I don't imagine iPhone would have been a suitable replacement candidate.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/10/why-apple-saddled-the-macbook-air-with-gimped-cpus.ars (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/10/why-apple-saddled-the-macbook-air-with-gimped-cpus.ars)
Quote from: Blackride on October 21, 2010, 11:24:42 AM
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/10/why-apple-saddled-the-macbook-air-with-gimped-cpus.ars (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/10/why-apple-saddled-the-macbook-air-with-gimped-cpus.ars)
Hello! We already have a seperate MacBook Air thread for this. :)
http://www.treksinscifi.com/forum/index.php?topic=8344.0 (http://www.treksinscifi.com/forum/index.php?topic=8344.0)
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/10/facetime-for-mac-opens-giant-apple-id-security-hole.ars (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/10/facetime-for-mac-opens-giant-apple-id-security-hole.ars)
You guys really like that web site, dontcha'? ::)
Never saw it before, but caught the link about facetime and posted it for people with the program so they can setup their facetime without someone doing it to them.
It is kinda interesting how quick we are to point out the small flaws in Apple, but not MSes...
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 21, 2010, 03:51:09 PM
It is kinda interesting how quick we are to point out the small flaws in Apple, but not MSes...
King
Umm yeah, that's what it is. If there is a exploit that will screw me over from any device that I own, PLEASE inform me! If you don't want to know, more power to ya!
Quote from: X on October 21, 2010, 04:11:17 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 21, 2010, 03:51:09 PM
It is kinda interesting how quick we are to point out the small flaws in Apple, but not MSes...
King
Umm yeah, that's what it is. If there is a exploit that will screw me over from any device that I own, PLEASE inform me! If you don't want to know, more power to ya!
I know, I know, I was actually surprised to hear such a gaping hole...someone would have thought they'd check into that, but I couldn't help but pick at how quickly this story comes up ;)
King
http://lifehacker.com/5636976/how-to-turn-your-ipod-touch-into-an-iphone-4g-edition?skyline=true&s=i (http://lifehacker.com/5636976/how-to-turn-your-ipod-touch-into-an-iphone-4g-edition?skyline=true&s=i)
Quote from: X on October 22, 2010, 12:17:09 PM
http://lifehacker.com/5636976/how-to-turn-your-ipod-touch-into-an-iphone-4g-edition?skyline=true&s=i (http://lifehacker.com/5636976/how-to-turn-your-ipod-touch-into-an-iphone-4g-edition?skyline=true&s=i)
I had read that article and was wondering before then how long before someone would figure it out. I had also thought of going that direction, but there were features on the iPhone I wanted.
King
One of the better parody videos I've seen, Weird Al is still a tad better though :)
TWEET IT - iPads vs iPhones (Michael Jackson "Beat It" spoof) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNf9_0w5qzw#ws)
King
iPad Fanboys - I'm on a Mac (I'm on a Boat spoof) ft. PC-Pain - SwitchToMac.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8FnACj25xM#ws)
Not sure any of you use the iPhone alarm feature, but it seems after Jan. 1st hit there is an alarm bug in it. Read on for a fix:
Reports flooded Twitter and message boards this weekend that the iPhone's alarm clock stopped working after Jan. 1.
It happened to us when we woke up an hour late Saturday morning to a hotel housekeeper instead of our iPhone chimes.
And it happened again this morning. (We went old school and set our clock radio as a back up).
It seems like the glitch affects repeating or saved alarms. Here's how to fix it until Apple delivers an update:
* Open the clock app.
* Tap Edit. You'll see a red minus sign appear next to each of your saved alarms. Tap the symbol to delete each one.
* Create a new alarm each day. Don't risk saving it again for the next day until there's a fix from Apple.
* As an alternative, check out the Nightstand Central app for iPhone. It acts as an alarm clock and won't be affected by the glitch. Download it here: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nightstand-central-free-alarm/id358044367?mt=8# (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nightstand-central-free-alarm/id358044367?mt=8#)
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-to-get-around-the-iphone-new-years-alarm-glitch-2011-1#ixzz19z3iuSyQ (http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-to-get-around-the-iphone-new-years-alarm-glitch-2011-1#ixzz19z3iuSyQ)
haha this hit me New Year's day. I had to get up to catch the bus to the ski hill and my alarm didn't go off. Luckily I woke up one minute after my alarm was supposed to fire. Didn't think anything of it until I read news about this yesterday.
I've not had any problems with this issue at all.
I triad an alarm when this first came up yesterday but it worked fine. Tomorrow will be the test, however, since I have to go back to work.
Funny how the issue they had after the daylight savings change has come back again after the new year change. If this is true it smacks of too little regression testing to me.
New alarms will work fine from what I read. I think the issue is any old recurring alarms set in the previous year.
Yeah crapped out for me becuase I set the alarm Dec 31 during the day :)
Your setting your alarm wrong.
;)
Didn't notice, but didn't need an alarm that day either.
King
Steve Jobs:
"If your iphone alarm clock isn't working, you're setting it wrong!"
;)
LOL i had no problem with the 3G version.
I'm finally tempted by a smartphone.
A friend of mine just got a myTouch 4g
http://mytouch.t-mobile.com/mytouch-4g (http://mytouch.t-mobile.com/mytouch-4g)
It worked as a wireless router for my Sylvania
psik
Just a quick uopdate that tomorrow Verizon will officially announce the iPhone is coming to their network. I had alsway figured Q1 for this, but it's good to see the announcement this early in the year.
Quote from: Bryancd on January 10, 2011, 05:45:51 AM
Just a quick uopdate that tomorrow Verizon will officially announce the iPhone is coming to their network. I had alsway figured Q1 for this, but it's good to see the announcement this early in the year.
Wow, its going to be surreal to see verizon ppl with iPhones. Now to see how Droid stands up to direct competition.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 10, 2011, 08:08:39 AM
Wow, its going to be surreal to see verizon ppl with iPhones.
Just out of interest, how do you identify a 'Verizon person' do they look different to everyone else?
I just don't like the idea of a Verizon spin on the iPhone. OR...the big red V on the front of the iPhone...hey, a big red V....Like the Visitors!!! :)
They'll have a giant Verizon logo on the back of the phone ;).
Unlikely to change sure, but I'll probably see ppl on verizon's plans with iPhones in a year or so.
King
Quote from: Feathers on January 10, 2011, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 10, 2011, 08:08:39 AM
Wow, its going to be surreal to see verizon ppl with iPhones.
Just out of interest, how do you identify a 'Verizon person' do they look different to everyone else?
You can tell the difference between an AT&T iPhone user and a Verizon iPhone user because the Verizon user will actually be using the iPhone as a phone! (you know, cuz ATT always drops calls...no service...:) )
Quote from: QuadShot on January 10, 2011, 08:28:32 AM
Quote from: Feathers on January 10, 2011, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 10, 2011, 08:08:39 AM
Wow, its going to be surreal to see verizon ppl with iPhones.
Just out of interest, how do you identify a 'Verizon person' do they look different to everyone else?
You can tell the difference between an AT&T iPhone user and a Verizon iPhone user because the Verizon user will actually be using the iPhone as a phone! (you know, cuz ATT always drops calls...no service...:) )
LoL that too :P
King
The Verizon folks will be pissed when they try to get any apps to run while they are talking on the phone because Verizon does not allow internet traffic during phone calls. So no checking driving directions while on a call, no looking up an address using the White Pages app, no checking email or surfing the web, etc.
Better know your info before making that call! hee hee
Are you sure the "Verizon iPhone" will have the same restrictions? Which frankly seem dumb anyway.
I am waiting for the iPhone 5 announcement this summer that will coincide with AT&T's announcement for 4G LTE support in Chicago! Then I get to the latest iPhone on the fast network.
And of course, the new iPad 2 announcement. I wonder if iPad 2 will support 4G?
Quote from: RickPeete on January 11, 2011, 08:13:13 AM
The Verizon folks will be pissed when they try to get any apps to run while they are talking on the phone because Verizon does not allow internet traffic during phone calls. So no checking driving directions while on a call, no looking up an address using the White Pages app, no checking email or surfing the web, etc.
Better know your info before making that call! hee hee
Just as a general observation, but is it really necessary/a good idea to be driving, talking on the phone AND looking at a map at the same time?!!!! :juggle
Who said you were actually driving during this?
Quote from: Rico on January 11, 2011, 09:37:27 AM
Who said you were actually driving during this?
Nobody, just a P.S.A. to be safe! :)
What has me considering a switch to Verizon is the unlimited data plan in combination with the ability to tether up to 5 devices to the phone's 3G network, including my WIFI iPad, which up till now has not been possible.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 11, 2011, 09:52:22 AM
What has me considering a switch to Verizon is the unlimited data plan in combination with the ability to tether up to 5 devices to the phone's 3G network, including my WIFI iPad, which up till now has not been possible.
How does the pricing of the plans compare? Have they announced what an unlimited data plan on a Verizon iPhone will cost per month? $75? $100?? $1 billion dollars???
I doubt it would be much more than I am paying now with AT&T. They haven't announced plan pricing yet, but the phones will cost $199 for the 16g and $299 for the 32g with 2 yr contracts, same as ATT.
One of the big reasons I haven't jumped on to the smart phone bus. Monthly cost is high. Plus, as I've said before I'm almost always a few feet away from a computer.
Yeah, the monthly cost is very high, but I love having access to websites that are blocked at work through my phone. And streaming Netflix on the train ride to work (although truthfully I'm usually watching something I loaded onto my iPad anyway, no internet access needed for that). And my wife is addicted the the Facebook App. And my kids adore all the free games I've loaded onto my phone. They really are cool little devices.
Come on Rico, I know you've always wanted your own (working) tricorder.
My understanding is that plan pricing will be announced when the phone begins selling start of Feb. and in all likely hood will be the same as AT&T's.
Anyone know if I can take my ATT iPhone4 to Verizon and use it?
I am not sure about that one, apparently there's minimal difference between the ATT iPhone 4 and the Verizon iPhone, except one big difference is there is no SIM card slot in the Verizon phone. I don't know what that means in reference to your question, but it could go either way I guess. You're likely able to get a good deal of money on Craigslist or Ebay for a iPhone 4 right now, perhaps enough to make the cost for switching (with a Verizon contract of course) zero or even profitable for you.
edit: Just out of curiosity I glanced at those sites and if the items listed there actually sell at the posted prices, you could easily make money by selling your current phone and switching. Apparently you could make even more if you jailbreak the phone first then sell it.
Quote from: QuadShot on January 11, 2011, 10:13:01 AM
Anyone know if I can take my ATT iPhone4 to Verizon and use it?
I hope not....I want everyone to have to buy a new one!! :)
Quote from: Bryancd on January 11, 2011, 10:33:38 AM
Quote from: QuadShot on January 11, 2011, 10:13:01 AM
Anyone know if I can take my ATT iPhone4 to Verizon and use it?
I hope not....I want everyone to have to buy a new one!! :)
Just so you guys know, AT&T runs off GSM, Verizon runs off CDMA, you cannot switch services on the same phone. You have to buy a new phone.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 11, 2011, 11:08:43 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on January 11, 2011, 10:33:38 AM
Quote from: QuadShot on January 11, 2011, 10:13:01 AM
Anyone know if I can take my ATT iPhone4 to Verizon and use it?
I hope not....I want everyone to have to buy a new one!! :)
Just so you guys know, AT&T runs off GSM, Verizon runs off CDMA, you cannot switch services on the same phone. You have to buy a new phone.
King
That's my understanding as well.
Yep - that's what I thought too. Not to mention any plan you have with AT&T will either have to be over or you pay a penalty.
Joby - I'm hoping to get my "tricorder fix" by getting an iPad 2. I already have a phone. Plus, I very much like the idea I can just run it via WiFi. No data plan needed. :)
Oh...not too concerned with paying ATT to terminate my crappy contract early if we need to. We have the worst cell service ever! :)
Can anyone explain the difference between GSM and CDMA or do I have to google
I believe that GSM networks are more limited than CDMA and not global. Am I close?
Quote from: QuadShot on January 11, 2011, 11:23:30 AM
I believe that GSM networks are more limited than CDMA and not global. Am I close?
Actually it's the other way around. CDMA is NOT global, CDMA does not do data and calling at the same time. I think your putting too much hope on Verizon, I suspect the iPhone will cripple them like it did AT&T
King
Quote from: Rico on January 11, 2011, 11:17:53 AM
Joby - I'm hoping to get my "tricorder fix" by getting an iPad 2. I already have a phone. Plus, I very much like the idea I can just run it via WiFi. No data plan needed. :)
Yeah I would never buy the 3G version unless it was the same price as the WIFI. I like the no contract pay as you go monthly model though that is standard for the iPad. Problem with iPad as tricorder is you can't really carry it on your hip.
Quote from: QuadShot on January 11, 2011, 11:23:30 AM
I believe that GSM networks are more limited than CDMA and not global. Am I close?
Er... not really ;) As far as I know, Europe is exclsively GSM (well, it is everywhere I've been, anyway), China has it's own variant of CDMA and other bits of the world are mix-&-match to some degree.
That's partly why the Verizon iPhone's so late in coming I believe. Apple's been shipping the GSM model to the whole world so probably hasn't had the capacity to support the more limited market share that CDMA would allow.
They specifically said no hybrid CDMA/GSM with the Verizon iPhone. Just CDMA. So you are boundmto the USA only. My guess is that iPhone 5 might come out for both carriers in the summer, supporting 4G. Maybe AT&T will support the mobile hotspur feature on their 4G offering... Would be nice to know.
It will be real interesting to see how this competition plays out. I really can't see AT&T just sitting back if the Verizon plan gives you more for the same money. Anyway, competition should be good for the consumers.
Over here all of the networks give pretty much 'the same for the same' on iPhones. There's some little variation but not enough to make any real difference in choice between providers.
I used to wonder how much of an influence Apple had in all of the plan pricing but since the market was opened to everyone, pretty much nobody has offered a cut-throat deal which makes me think it's just the carriers.
Of course, AT&T seems to have taken a reputation hit with the iPhone so they may feel it necessary to do something startling but the evidence from our market suggests otherwise.
Reports are popping up that iOS v. 4.3 will allow iPhones to create a WiFi hotspot for up to five devices - and not just the upcoming Verizon phones. As I would have expected, at the end of the day there is going to be little difference in what these plans offer. It will come down to who is the better phone carrier in your area. Read on...
Computerworld - All iPhones will reportedly have the Personal Hotspot capability similar to what Verizon Wireless announced Tuesday for its iPhone coming Feb. 10.
Carriers will have to support the feature giving Wi-Fi access to up to five devices. It is not clear how soon the capability would come to AT&T, which had exclusively sold iPhone in the U.S until Verizon's announcement.
The Personal Hotspot feature is enabled in all iPhones in the impending iOS version 4.3, according to a Wednesday posting in Boy Genius Report.
Apple officials could not be reached to comment on the report, but BGR relied on an unnamed source to confirm the existence of the Personal Hotspot capability in iOS 4.3. BGR showed screenshots that included the Personal Hotspot feature under Wi-Fi and Airplane Mode settings in an iPhone interface.
Technical acceptance of the feature is planned for March, meaning Verizon would have a head start on other carriers, including AT&T.
Pricing for Personal Hotspot has not been announced for the Verizon iPhone, although Verizon currently charges $20 a month for 2GB on Wi-Fi connections on its Android phones and through USB and MiFi modems on laptops. Personal Hotspot will connect the Verizon iPhone to up to five Wi-Fi capable devices.
Some analysts say Verizon might combine the cost of its unannounced data fees for the iPhone with the Personal Hotspot capability. One analyst, Rob Enderle at Enderle Group, said the monthly cost for both unlimited data and Personal Hotspot could reach $120 a month on top of voice and texting charges.
A Verizon spokesman on Tuesday said the company will announce all service charges for iPhone later but did not give a date. However, another Verizon spokeswoman said Wednesday that hotspots currently cost $20 monthly for 2GB, adding, "and to my knowledge that won't change."
AT&T could not be reached to comment on when or whether it will support Personal Hotspot in its iPhones, although it supports similar capability on other devices.
Matt Hamblen covers mobile and wireless, smartphones and other handhelds, and wireless networking for Computerworld.
source:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9204738/All_iPhones_reported_to_get_Personal_Hotspot_with_iOS_v._4.3?taxonomyId=12 (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9204738/All_iPhones_reported_to_get_Personal_Hotspot_with_iOS_v._4.3?taxonomyId=12)
I didnt realize this would be an additional charge. That makes it a no-go for me then.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 12, 2011, 10:37:03 AM
I didnt realize this would be an additional charge. That makes it a no-go for me then.
What do you mean additional charge?
King
Reading is fundamental
"A Verizon spokesman on Tuesday said the company will announce all service charges for iPhone later but did not give a date. However, another Verizon spokeswoman said Wednesday that hotspots currently cost $20 monthly for 2GB, adding, "and to my knowledge that won't change."
Oh that, thought you were talking about something else.
Yeah, hotspots on Smartphones have always costed more $$. Droid, RIM iPhone, nothing new
King
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 12, 2011, 10:37:03 AM
I didnt realize this would be an additional charge. That makes it a no-go for me then.
Yeah, that what I was getting at yesterday I think when you mentioned all these added features on the plan. Added stuff always costs more! Again, these things are all just to darn costly if you ask me. I don't know what kind of jobs people have out there, but $120+ month for a phone?? I'd rather have three or four nice meals out.
And this is one of the reasons I have always been so bullish on Apple. Observational evidence only, but I have seen people who have jobs where I would imagine paying the rent would be a monthly challenge and yet they are walking around with an expensive smartphone with a pricey data plan! I said in a old thread once, people will go into foreclosure before they give up their gadgets.
What's insidious about it is how these "services" are generally cheap enough ($20 a month for example doesn't seem like a whole lot on its own) that people think that it's a manageable expense. But when you add up the annual cost of all these incidentals it winds up being thousands of dollars a year.
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to call it insidious, that sort of puts some kind of morality spin on it. Cavaet emptor and a little personal financial responsibility go's a long way! :) People should actually READ the contracts they sign...kind of like the whole mortgage thing but that's a different conversation. As it is, people are buying these data plans at these price points and until they have incentive to lower them, that's what the market will bear.
Dunno, I'm paying 60/month for 500 megs of data and unlimited talk/text. You CAN make it expensive, but with a bit of restraint it can be quite manageable.
Wow, people seem very interested in getting a phone that supposedly drops calls, breaks when you look at it wrong, and is about to be taken out by the competition... ;)
Quote from: Bryancd on January 12, 2011, 11:52:40 AM
Wow, people seem very interested in getting a phone that supposedly drops calls, breaks when you look at it wrong, and is about to be taken out by the competition... ;)
LOL! People often make poor judgment calls. Look at the housing market and worldwide money troubles. It's sad when the guy down the street has more money than Greece.
I'll give you a very side type of example of what you guys are talking about. Down the street from work here (not the best area to start with) there is an area people refer to as "the projects." Very cheap, small housing for low incomes, etc. Now up and down the street each day people walk down to the bus stop, push strollers of kids, etc. Many of them have their cell phones out talking and just yesterday I saw three boys (maybe late teens or so) walking down the road and one had a nice looking laptop holding it open (looked like he was scanning for free WiFi). Everyone of course can spend their money in the manner they choose. I certainly spend money on things many would call frivolous. But, I also make sure our money goes first to our home, education for the boys, reliable cars, food, etc. before other things. I'll just say some people seem to have the order of priorities messed up.
Quote from: Rico on January 12, 2011, 12:38:51 PM
I'll give you a very side type of example of what you guys are talking about. Down the street from work here (not the best area to start with) there is an area people refer to as "the projects." Very cheap, small housing for low incomes, etc. Now up and down the street each day people walk down to the bus stop, push strollers of kids, etc. Many of them have their cell phones out talking and just yesterday I saw three boys (maybe late teens or so) walking down the road and one had a nice looking laptop holding it open (looked like he was scanning for free WiFi). Everyone of course can spend their money in the manner they choose. I certainly spend money on things many would call frivolous. But, I also make sure our money goes first to our home, education for the boys, reliable cars, food, etc. before other things. I'll just say some people seem to have the order of priorities messed up.
AMEN.
Well, we also live in a society where, from before our children are old enough to even talk, they are constantly bombarded with advertising and media that does it's damndest to convince them that they need to have the lastest, or greatest, or most expensive doodad that they're hawking in order to be happy, beautiful, well liked, etc etc. It's very difficult to avoid and it obviously works or advertising wouldn't be a billion dollar industry. If you think about it for a while it is kind of insidious.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 12, 2011, 01:16:02 PM
Well, we also live in a society where, from before our children are old enough to even talk, they are constantly bombarded with advertising and media that does it's damndest to convince them that they need to have the lastest, or greatest, or most expensive doodad that they're hawking in order to be happy, beautiful, well liked, etc etc. It's very difficult to avoid and it obviously works or advertising wouldn't be a billion dollar industry. If you think about it for a while it is kind of insidious.
I disagree with that just a little. While there are tons of commercials, if you give your child a good foundation, then it really doesn't matter. My daughter is 6 now and has never eaten nor wanted to eat at McDonalds. She sees a lot of commercials through the course of a week, but she doesn't bombard us at all with things that she wants. She does have some things that she wants but it's more than controllable.
I think that a strong value system and a sense of what a buck is worth can easily counter any and all advertising.
Quote from: X on January 12, 2011, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 12, 2011, 01:16:02 PM
Well, we also live in a society where, from before our children are old enough to even talk, they are constantly bombarded with advertising and media that does it's damndest to convince them that they need to have the lastest, or greatest, or most expensive doodad that they're hawking in order to be happy, beautiful, well liked, etc etc. It's very difficult to avoid and it obviously works or advertising wouldn't be a billion dollar industry. If you think about it for a while it is kind of insidious.
I disagree with that just a little. While there are tons of commercials, if you give your child a good foundation, then it really doesn't matter. My daughter is 6 now and has never eaten nor wanted to eat at McDonalds. She sees a lot of commercials through the course of a week, but she doesn't bombard us at all with things that she wants. She does have some things that she wants but it's more than controllable.
I think that a strong value system and a sense of what a buck is worth can easily counter any and all advertising.
Problem is, is having parents who teach that.
Getting smaller by the generation me thinks...
King
How much you wanna bet that AT&T will charge for the Hotspot service AND not allow those of us with unlimited data plans to use the feature?
It is what they did with their Internet Tethering feature. It is only available if you select their 2GB plan. For those of us on the unlimited plan (grandfathered in), the Internet Tethering option is not available.
So unfair....
Really good story here about the AT&T vs. Verizon iPhone battle with some very interesting points. I think it's mainly going to come down to who is the better carrier in your area and what plan you now have, but for those not on either this is a good set of info to review...
For more than three years, iPhone owners have grumbled about dropped calls and slow service on AT&T (T), the exclusive cellular network for Apple's (AAPL) transformative device. Now they'll have the chance to see if Verizon (VZ) can do any better. The company recently announced it will start selling iPhones on Feb. 10. (Existing customers can preorder the phone on Feb. 3.) For those who still haven't chosen sides in the AT&T vs. Verizon showdown, consider these points before signing a contract:
Price: Verizon customers will pay the same as AT&T's—at least for the device itself. A 16-gigabyte iPhone costs $200, while the 32-gigabyte model is $100 more. The more important retail factor, however, is the monthly service charge, and Verizon hasn't released any details yet. The industry scuttlebutt is that the company will offer an all-you-can-eat data plan, which AT&T stopped doing last year to keep data hogs from straining its network. Verizon currently charges $30 a month for the unlimited plans on other smartphones, with voice and text messages costing extra. That's $5 more than what AT&T charges its heaviest data users, who can download up to 2 gigabytes of data per month. For those who like to stream The Daily Show with Jon Stewart while in line at Costco (COST), $5 may be a small price to pay.
Quality: It's hard to know whether AT&T deserves the battering it has received for poor network quality. Each carrier's coverage differs from area to area. AT&T increased its investment in wireless infrastructure by over $2 billion in 2010, and says it's improving. As of last August, however, the percentage of dropped calls on AT&T's network had risen to 5.8 percent, compared with 2 percent for Verizon, according to a survey by Changewave Research. Infonetics Research co-founder Michael Howard says AT&T is more conservative with its network investments and took longer to upgrade from copper wires to fiber-optic cables and other cutting-edge gear. "Verizon planned its network with greater foresight than anyone else," says Recon Analytics analyst Roger Entner. "They have a very well-built network, and they don't cut corners."
Features: The carriers' iPhones are nearly identical, but where they differ, AT&T has the advantage. Verizon's network is based on a technology called CDMA, which runs voice and Internet over different tracks. That means Verizon's iPhone owners won't be able to surf the Web or use apps while on a call. AT&T users can, and the company says that more of its customers use the simultaneous talk-and-surf capability every day than watch videos or use GPS navigation.
Verizon users can, however, pay extra to transform their iPhone into a Wi-Fi hotspot, and share its cellular signal with up to five other gadgets. AT&T's iPhones currently link up with only one other gadget, and connect with them via a more limited Bluetooth signal.
Speed: A big part of AT&T's promotional pushback against Verizon is that its network is faster. Thanks to recent upgrades, AT&T boasts speeds of 6 megabits per second—fast enough to download a song in four or five seconds, and roughly three times what most Verizon subscribers see. Yet that speedy connection is available only in regions where AT&T has finished upgrading the wires that connect cell towers to the Internet, a process that won't be finished until at least 2013.
Future Proofing: The Verizon iPhone will likely have a short stint in the spotlight. Every year since 2008, Apple has announced a new, upgraded iPhone in early summer. Buying a Verizon iPhone in February likely means missing out on a sleeker version in a few months' time—although that's always a worry when buying gadgets.
Both AT&T and Verizon are building next-generation 4G networks with turbocharged speeds. Neither existing iPhone works on them, but analysts expect Apple to introduce a 4G iPhone within a year or so. Verizon is much further along—its 4G service is already available in 38 cities—so its service is a better bet for those hoping to upgrade to 4G speeds as early as possible.
Of course, the iPhone matters not just to Verizon's customers but also to its investors. No one doubts that winning Apple's "Jesus phone" will increase Verizon's subscriber base. UBS Securities (UBS) expects the company to win 3.5 million new customers in 2011, while AT&T, Sprint (S), and T-Mobile will lose around 1 million between them.
Managing that growth won't be simple. Verizon is expected to pay $5 billion or so to subsidize new iPhone owners this year, which could drag down profit margins. Walter Piecyk, an analyst at brokerage firm BTIG, expects the opposite. He says the iPhone bonanza will allow Verizon to spread fixed costs like stores and TV ads across more units, boosting margins from 46.4 percent last year to 48.1 percent in 2012. If Verizon's network can handle the new subscribers, he says, it will further damage AT&T's brand. "They've had the iPhone for four years, and they're still trying to catch up with demand."
The bottom line: AT&T must now compete with Verizon for iPhone customers. The latter offers a more reliable but slower network.
Burrows is a senior writer for Bloomberg Businessweek, based in San Francisco.
source:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_04/b4212032854327.htm (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_04/b4212032854327.htm)
Be careful with that iPhone 4 in below freezing weather. The glass can shatter. See below...
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/01/13/baby-its-cold-outside-so-your-iphone-exploded/ (http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/01/13/baby-its-cold-outside-so-your-iphone-exploded/)
Yeah I had fran put hers in a somewhat beefy case when we go skiing. No damage as of yet.
Good man. Glass is a liquid. It will freeze and can stress crack very easily then.
Quote from: Rico on January 13, 2011, 09:22:33 AM
Be careful with that iPhone 4 in below freezing weather. The glass can shatter. See below...
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/01/13/baby-its-cold-outside-so-your-iphone-exploded/ (http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/01/13/baby-its-cold-outside-so-your-iphone-exploded/)
In a related PSA, be careful with that iPhone while you are walking in space!!!! ;)
Well, that's not too likely. But walking around on the phone in below freezing weather at this time of year certainly is pretty common.
Quote from: Rico on January 13, 2011, 09:26:39 AM
Good man. Glass is a liquid. It will freeze and can stress crack very easily then.
Yeah, it's one of those thick silicone cases. I figure that's a good way to go to absorb any shocks. Fran doesn't fall often on the slopes (she's been skiing since the age of 4) but when she does go down, it tends to be spectacular.
Looks like one big benefit for the Verizon iPhone is an antenna redesign. Read on...
Computerworld - Apple has redesigned the iPhone 4's antennas for Verizon, perhaps to foil the "death grip" problem that roiled AT&T customers last summer, an expert said today.
"They've moved things around, and my guess is that they went to a dual antenna," said Spencer Webb, an antenna engineer with nearly a dozen patents to his credit, and president of AntennaSys, a mobile device antenna design and consulting firm.
Webb was reacting to photographs that have been published on the Web which show a different configuration for the slots in the external stainless steel frame, which houses the phone's antennas.
Shortly after the introduction of the AT&T iPhone 4 last summer, customers complained that holding the device in certain ways or touching it in specific spots lowered signal strength and dropped calls......
Full story here:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9205038/Verizon_iPhone_antenna_redesign_may_thwart_death_grip_says_expert?taxonomyId=15 (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9205038/Verizon_iPhone_antenna_redesign_may_thwart_death_grip_says_expert?taxonomyId=15)
Well just got my iPhone 4 in the mail. Activation when I get home. I guess I'll see what all the fuss is about.
Quote from: billybob476 on January 14, 2011, 10:08:16 AM
Well just got my iPhone 4 in the mail. Activation when I get home. I guess I'll see what all the fuss is about.
Joe - I thought you already had one? So Fran had version 4 before you?
Quote from: Rico on January 14, 2011, 10:09:57 AM
Quote from: billybob476 on January 14, 2011, 10:08:16 AM
Well just got my iPhone 4 in the mail. Activation when I get home. I guess I'll see what all the fuss is about.
Joe - I thought you already had one? So Fran had version 4 before you?
I'm still running my now-ancient iPhone 3G. We could have done the swap with me taking the iPhone 4 and giving Fran my old 3G but I decided against it. The 3G has been so frustratingly slow since iOS4 came out (no matter what I do) that I figured that Fran should have the good experience and I'd tough it out.
Makes me really wonder why Apple pushes a new OS on old hardware. Is that something you have to do? Even in the computer world they don't do this. Why upgrade the OS if the hardware can't handle it?
You don't have to but I think if you were still on OS3.x a lot of apps wouldn't be working for you. The main issue with my phone is whenever the GPS would engage, the phone would become very, very unresponsive.
Quote from: billybob476 on January 14, 2011, 10:38:06 AM
You don't have to but I think if you were still on OS3.x a lot of apps wouldn't be working for you. The main issue with my phone is whenever the GPS would engage, the phone would become very, very unresponsive.
Right, the issue Apple has to contend with is by allowing developers to create 1000's of Apps, they can't always ensure an operating system upgrade won't impact some of them, it would be like herding cats. :)
Well, just an FYI: It looks like the 3G iPhone will no longer be receiving future updates after iOS 4.2. However, we won't know until the official version of 4.3 comes out later. So if this is true, it means Apple is done dealing with the old hardware. Not that I can blame them....3G is ancient compared to the 4th Gen.
King
*edit* iOS 4.3 is dropping support of the old processors so 1st and 2nd Gen of iPhone and iPod Touch will no longer be supported. Not really all that surprising, given how much trouble they had with iOS 4.0 in the first place.
Thanks go to an "App Dev" for confirming it. ;)
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 14, 2011, 04:00:09 PM
Well, just an FYI: It looks like the 3G iPhone will no longer be receiving future updates after iOS 4.2. However, we won't know until the official version of 4.3 comes out later. So if this is true, it means Apple is done dealing with the old hardware. Not that I can blame them....3G is ancient compared to the 4th Gen.
King
Weren't you the one complaining on another thread about it not being fair when you have a product and they drop support for it?
Quote from: X on January 14, 2011, 05:37:54 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 14, 2011, 04:00:09 PM
Well, just an FYI: It looks like the 3G iPhone will no longer be receiving future updates after iOS 4.2. However, we won't know until the official version of 4.3 comes out later. So if this is true, it means Apple is done dealing with the old hardware. Not that I can blame them....3G is ancient compared to the 4th Gen.
King
Weren't you the one complaining on another thread about it not being fair when you have a product and they drop support for it?
If I did, your going to have to remind me.
But while I said I'm not surprised and I don't blame them, I don't like it either. But all tech companies do this eventually. No one is not guilty of this.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 14, 2011, 04:00:09 PM
Well, just an FYI: It looks like the 3G iPhone will no longer be receiving future updates after iOS 4.2. However, we won't know until the official version of 4.3 comes out later. So if this is true, it means Apple is done dealing with the old hardware. Not that I can blame them....3G is ancient compared to the 4th Gen.
King
Tell me about it, I activated my iPhone 4, it's a whole new world. King already added me but if anyone else is on Game Center I'm (of course) billybob476
I would not expect Apple to support older iPhones after a certain point. My wife has the iPhone 3G and while it is working fine for her now, there is stuff that she cannot do that I can (on my 3Gs). The app compatibility issue is not Apple's to address -- it is the developer who created it. If they want their apps to be viable, then they have to continue supporting them by making them compatible as new iOS versions are released. That is totally a developer responsibility (I am a developer so I accept that).
Apple cannot be held hostage by apps or hardware that is almost three years old. It just isn't very practical. And after three years, any company would have fully depreciated the asset's value so replacing it is not considered a loss.
Quote from: RickPeete on January 14, 2011, 09:00:14 PM
Apple cannot be held hostage by apps or hardware that is almost three years old. It just isn't very practical. And after three years, any company would have fully depreciated the asset's value so replacing it is not considered a loss.
Microsoft does it all the time :)
Quote from: Blackride on January 15, 2011, 12:57:51 AM
Quote from: RickPeete on January 14, 2011, 09:00:14 PM
Apple cannot be held hostage by apps or hardware that is almost three years old. It just isn't very practical. And after three years, any company would have fully depreciated the asset's value so replacing it is not considered a loss.
Microsoft does it all the time :)
...and it's one of the reasons Windows is as large and ungainly as it is. I don't begrudge them providing updates. I think my phone and usage patterns highlighted the shortcomings of the older hardware (gaming and poor GPS performance for example). I do begrudge my wireless carrier (and all Canadian carriers) for locking me into a 3 year contract with a hardware upgrade only available in September.
I think what it comes down to is mainly to try and move people to newer hardware. Phones certainly seem to have a short life cycle these days. I mean look at how long you keep the same fridge, washer, car, TV, etc. But computing type equipment (and phones) change quickly. It's both due to quick advances in tech and the company wanting your money again. So, really all tech companies do it.
I'd argue even TVs have much shorter lifespans these days. My parents kept TVs for 10-20 years. Now with advances in display tech a tv I got 2 years ago is way out of date.
I would suggest any technology company has no choice but to innovate as quickly as new developments and the competition and the consumer will allow. The differences between the 3 ad 4 versions of the iPhone alone are testament to that. Innovate or perish and it can happen in a single product lifespan of a year it seems.
Quote from: billybob476 on January 15, 2011, 06:03:13 AM
I'd argue even TVs have much shorter lifespans these days. My parents kept TVs for 10-20 years. Now with advances in display tech a tv I got 2 years ago is way out of date.
Yeah, pretty true. But I still keep my TV's a lot longer than the 2-3 year cycle of a phone. Even if they are not the latest. My Sony 1080p set I got about 3.5 years ago is still looking great to me.
I think it was Sony whose business practice was to obsolete it's own products every six months. With goals like that, all consumer tech companies are forced into that one-upmanship game. And the money is certainly a major factor.
I wonder if we're going to hit the end of external hardware on Smartphones though. Dangelus and I were wondering besides a bigger screen what the iPhone could possibly do at this point. Internal is easy, more Hardrive, faster processor better memory. iOS software is easy too, but doesn't require a phone upgrade (yet). But I think we're going to hit the end-point of external features on Smartphones here real soon unless someone else can think up new ideas.
King
I think we will just have more attachments on them via the DM port. Plus, as more secure applications (banking, retail, security) turn our phones into secure devices we cannot afford to lose, I think we will see more devices with builtin biometrics for access to content.
Probably have more cradlepoint accessories that can turn your phone into a bigger device for specialty applications (like that steering wheel you can place a Touch in for games like Need for Speed).
And with the advent of Ford's SYNC capabilities, we will see the car have a snug place builtin for your phone so it can fully integrate with your car systems.
If anyone remembers the Roddenberry show "Earth: Final Conflict", they had a device called a "Global". Our phones are pretty much going to be like those (darn pretty close to that already).
Quote from: RickPeete on January 15, 2011, 02:16:04 PM
I think we will just have more attachments on them via the DM port. Plus, as more secure applications (banking, retail, security) turn our phones into secure devices we cannot afford to lose, I think we will see more devices with builtin biometrics for access to content.
Probably have more cradlepoint accessories that can turn your phone into a bigger device for specialty applications (like that steering wheel you can place a Touch in for games like Need for Speed).
And with the advent of Ford's SYNC capabilities, we will see the car have a snug place builtin for your phone so it can fully integrate with your car systems.
If anyone remembers the Roddenberry show "Earth: Final Conflict", they had a device called a "Global". Our phones are pretty much going to be like those (darn pretty close to that already).
I should have specified what can Apple do at this point to its iPhone. Accessories have never been a concern point for Apple much. And sure, there are plenty they can do there, its a niche thing. idk about Biometrics, the technology is there, but even the laptops and desktops aren't adapting the tech much.
King
Banking is moving towards the idea of biometics for mobile devices if only to prevent unauthorized access to customer banking information due to the loss or theft of someone's phone. People lose or have their phones stolen daily. While that used to be a worry about who had your contact list, now it is a worry about what secure content was stored on it.
my phone before the 3G before the current 4 had a fingerprint scanner. I can't say I ever really used it.
A bit more details on Verizon's upcoming pricing plan. Still seems to be somewhat in flux:
Take that, AT&T! Well, sort of.
Verizon (VZ, Fortune 500) poured some gas onto the iPhone fire Tuesday morning when it announced that it would offer the same $30 unlimited data plan for the iPhone as it offers for all of its other smartphones.
But by Tuesday afternoon, the company updated its announcement and backpedaled, saying it would only offer the unlimited iPhone data plan "for a limited time." Those who get in during the window will have unlimited data on their iPhones throughout the life of their Verizon contract.
The company declined to comment on how long the temporary unlimited offer would last. But it said that after the initial period, it will move to a metered system similar to the one used by AT&T (T, Fortune 500), which makes its smartphone customers pay for the amount of data they consume.
In June, AT&T slashed the starting prices of its data plans, but also added caps to them and eliminated its unlimited plan. AT&T customers now pay $15 a month for 250 megabytes of monthly data, or $25 for 2 gigabytes and an additional $10 for each gigabyte of monthly data usage that exceeds the allotted 2 GB limit.
So even though the cheapest available monthly iPhone voice plus data plan on AT&T is $54.99, compared to $69.99 on Verizon, customers that download 2.1 GB of data on their iPhones will pay $69.99 if they have Verizon -- compared to $74.99 on AT&T. For a limited time, anyway.
That's not so hard to do: If you want to watch Netflix (NFLX) on your iPhone using a mobile connection, 2 GB only gets you between six and 12 hours of streaming movies and TV shows, depending on the bit rate.
When it unveiled its iPhone earlier this month, Verizon Wireless declined to discuss the phone's data plan pricing. That fueled speculation that Verizon would go the way of AT&T and introduce a tiered plan, ditching the all-you-can-eat option.
Early Tuesday, the company seemed to recognize that would be a competitive mistake.
"I'm not going to shoot myself in the foot," Lowell McAdam, Verizon's chief operating officer, told the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. He said that moving towards a tiered data plan would reduce the number of iPhone customers that would defect from rival AT&T.
But after initially backing his comments, the company pulled back. More details of Verizon's data-pricing plan will be announced later, a spokeswoman said.
AT&T has been pounded for years about its network struggles, which recently got it crowned "worst carrier" in America in a Consumer Reports survey. The company's 20 million iPhone customers are often its most vocally unhappy customers.
Still, only about 2.5 million customers are expected to defect to Verizon next month, according to numerous analyst estimates, thanks in large part to the high early termination costs that AT&T built into its contracts.
The iPhone will be available to Verizon customers for pre-sale Feb. 3 and it will appear in stores on Feb. 10.
source:
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/25/technology/verizon_iphone_plan/ (http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/25/technology/verizon_iphone_plan/)
We're grandfathered in and still have unlimited data on our AT&T plan, which is good because my kids are constantly streaming Netflix on mine and my wife's phones. It's still a huge expense and I kind of wish I could drop them completely. The phones, not the kids ;)
They stream on the iPhones and not the iPad??
I predicted that even if the iPhone did arrive to Verizon that Verzion would pull an AT&T and this is them basically doing the same thing. Rather annoying that I can easily predict company behavior at this point.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 25, 2011, 01:08:59 PM
I predicted that even if the iPhone did arrive to Verizon that Verzion would pull an AT&T and this is them basically doing the same thing. Rather annoying that I can easily predict company behavior at this point.
King
Actually it's not. It's them trying to create demand for their services by offering something that has a limited window.
Quote from: Rico on January 25, 2011, 12:44:00 PM
They stream on the iPhones and not the iPad??
Those destructive little gremlins are rarely allowed to touch my glorious iPad.
We do stream on iPad but generally all of us together when I can keep an eye on them. Even then it's every ten seconds..."Stop touching it!"
My daughter was given my wife's old 3G iPhone when she upgraded to a 3GS. My daughter uses it as an iPod but there's a bunch of games and Netflix on there which she streams over my WiFi, so that doesn't impact our AT&T plan. But in the car, especially on long trips, they are usually screaming for us to give them our phones so they can watch movies.
Quote from: X on January 25, 2011, 01:14:15 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 25, 2011, 01:08:59 PM
I predicted that even if the iPhone did arrive to Verizon that Verzion would pull an AT&T and this is them basically doing the same thing. Rather annoying that I can easily predict company behavior at this point.
King
Actually it's not. It's them trying to create demand for their services by offering something that has a limited window.
Regardless of the what they are trying to do, the end result is that those who come later will not have access to the unlimited plan. The same restriction AT&T has.
King
Hardly much of a prediction either. It pretty much follows the model we've had over here for iPhone plans.
If a service costs something to provide, you shouldn't be that surprised when it costs other providers pretty much the same price, surely?
Quote from: Feathers on January 25, 2011, 01:21:58 PM
Hardly much of a prediction either. It pretty much follows the model we've had over here for iPhone plans.
If a service costs something to provide, you shouldn't be that surprised when it costs other providers pretty much the same price, surely?
Its not the cost that surprises me, its the fact that they are removing the unlimited data plan pretty quickly. Its to prevent Verizon's network from being crippled, that's the only thing I can think of.
King
Either that or to try and get some return on the investment in the network itself. From what I read, the rapid progression to 4G standards isn't giving enough time for networks to recover the costs of building the 3G networks. Thus they need to charge more to recover their costs before it all gets ripped out and replaced.
I'd like to see some figures on how much money these companies make on overage fees. My guess is a freaking fortune.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 25, 2011, 01:29:58 PM
I'd like to see some figures on how much money these companies make on overage fees. My guess is a freaking fortune.
If a lot of people are on the smaller data plan, you are probably right.
King
I guess that depends on your usage. On a 500 meg data plan I've never even broken 300 megs. I just don't stream much over 3G.
Quote from: billybob476 on January 25, 2011, 01:40:44 PM
I guess that depends on your usage. On a 500 meg data plan I've never even broken 300 megs. I just don't stream much over 3G.
Pretty much the same here although I'd probably be lazier about 3G/WiFi switching if I were still on my old O2 unlimited plan.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 25, 2011, 01:08:59 PM
I predicted that even if the iPhone did arrive to Verizon that Verzion would pull an AT&T and this is them basically doing the same thing. Rather annoying that I can easily predict company behavior at this point.
King
Wow, really? You couldn't even predict the iPhone coming to Verizon in 2011, if at all. You need to check your fact, Tim! :)
Quote from: Bryancd on January 25, 2011, 02:27:26 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 25, 2011, 01:08:59 PM
I predicted that even if the iPhone did arrive to Verizon that Verzion would pull an AT&T and this is them basically doing the same thing. Rather annoying that I can easily predict company behavior at this point.
King
Wow, really? You couldn't even predict the iPhone coming to Verizon in 2011, if at all. You need to check your fact, Tim! :)
I never said "when" it would come, I had suspicions it would be this year, but I knew that if/when it would come, Verizon would pull what they are doing now.
So shush you ;)
King
Any news on iphone 5?
Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on January 25, 2011, 03:08:27 PM
Any news on iphone 5?
Rumors that its coming out in summer time, in time for 4G, but nothing even remotely concrete. The iPad 2.0 is the focus of everyone right now.
King
IPhone next gen is all I care about.
Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on January 25, 2011, 03:34:04 PM
IPhone next gen is all I care about.
Well, you'll be waiting another 6 months at least :P.
King
Keep me posted Bry. My contract for my 3G comes up for renewal in September so I'm hoping it will be out by then.
Traditionally iPhones are announced in June/July.
I am holding out for that as well Meds. My contract is up in late May - and the wife is already up - and I would like to hold out on renewal until the new phone is released. I'll see what Android offerings are out there at the same time.
Well, this info seems pretty accurate. Apple even had the pages on their website for a short time yesterday. Looks like $40. for voice, $30 for unlimited data, $20 for tethering on Verizon. Of course, don't try to use the services at the same time since Verizon doesn't support that. Read on,....
Apple's website on Wednesday temporarily listed details for new Verizon iPhone customers, with voice plans starting at $39.99 per month, unlimited data for $29.99 per month, and 2GB of data tethering for an additional $20.
For a short time Wednesday morning, customers could view both the 16GB and 32GB CDMA iPhone models compatible with Verizon's network, which will be available for $199 and $299, respectively, with a two-year contract. The carrier's standard entry-level individual plan comes with 450 minutes for $39.99 per month, while 900 minutes costs $59.99 per month, and "Nationwide Unlimited" is $69.99 per month.
Verizon will also offer "Family SharePlans" with 700 minutes for $69.99, 1,400 minutes for $89.99, 2,000 minutes for $99.99 and "Nationwide Unlimited" for $19.99.
As was revealed earlier this week, Verizon customers will only be able to purchase an unlimited data plan for $29.99, with no lower-tier capped options available. However, the carrier has said that the unlimited plan will only be available for a limited time, as it plans to move toward a tiered system in the near future.
Tethering runs $20 per month, but only offers 2GB of data when using the new Personal Hotspot feature built into the iOS mobile operating system by Apple. Pricing on the tethering option was also previously revealed this week.
Finally, Verizon customers who buy the new iPhone can opt for pay-per-use text messaging at a rate of 20 cents per text or 25 cents for a picture or video. 250 messages costs $5 per month with a cost of 10 cents per additional message, while 500 messages (with unlimited messaging to other Verizon customers) is $10 per month. The unlimited texting plan matches AT&T at $20 per month.
Apple jumped the gun in listing the Verizon iPhone 4 in its online store -- preorders for existing Verizon customers are not set to go live until Feb. 3. The handset will be available to purchase to all when it officially goes on sale Feb. 10.
Later Wednesday morning, the pages were removed and visitors are now met with an error message: "Your request couldn't be processed. We're sorry, but there was an error processing your request. Please try again later."
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/01/26/apples_online_store_reveals_verizon_iphone_contract_plans_and_options.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/01/26/apples_online_store_reveals_verizon_iphone_contract_plans_and_options.html)
It's interesting how your charges are all separated out. Over here plans are one price for an allowance of calls, messages and data. You can't mix and match like you can.
On the other side of the equation, all but the very cheapest plans include unlimited messaging these days (receiving SMS is free over here).
Same here on the free SMS.
Honestly our SMS should be free, I can't imagine their servers are hurting from the usage of texting....if I'm wrong, please someone fill me in but last I checked Text is a really really tiny file.
But since we got suckered into the deal, we've gotta pay up. Bah.
King
You get the texting with the $40. voice plan, I think - right? Heck, I have a simple Sprint plan and have pretty much unlimited voice and text. If I wanted data, that's when the extra costs come in.
Right now I have unlimited local calling for 35.00/month plus another 30 for an iPhone feature pack (visual voicemail, caller id, unlimited SMS and MMS and some other junk) and 500 meg data.
Here in Canada we get killed on data and long distance.
Quote from: Rico on January 26, 2011, 10:12:28 AM
You get the texting with the $40. voice plan, I think - right? Heck, I have a simple Sprint plan and have pretty much unlimited voice and text. If I wanted data, that's when the extra costs come in.
AT&T and Verizon do not include texting in anything, (exempting certain phones I think) it is a stand alone charge. Unless you get the family deal but...yeah. Anyway.
King
Pretty unbelieveable that Verizon is charging for data, plus an extra $20 bucks for tethering, and on TOP of that they are limiting tethering to only 2GB per month. 20 bucks for 2GB? For a user that might want to use their hotspot for multiple devices like a laptop, iPad, or whatever? That's an outrageously bad deal.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 26, 2011, 11:13:52 AM
Pretty unbelieveable that Verizon is charging for data, plus an extra $20 bucks for tethering, and on TOP of that they are limiting tethering to only 2GB per month. 20 bucks for 2GB? For a user that might want to use their hotspot for multiple devices like a laptop, iPad, or whatever? That's an outrageously bad deal.
Yeah, I would never get this, even if I had a use for it. The iPhone is terribly expensive as it is, these carriers seem intent on making it more expensive. I really hope no one buys this feature and forces both AT&T and Verizon to come down off their high horse.
(Wishful thinking)
King
Quote from: billybob476 on January 26, 2011, 10:15:18 AM
Right now I have unlimited local calling for 35.00/month plus another 30 for an iPhone feature pack (visual voicemail, caller id, unlimited SMS and MMS and some other junk) and 500 meg data.
Here in Canada we get killed on data and long distance.
That seems weird about long distance for cell phone use. That applies when you call other cell phone users too? Does it apply if they use an iPhone??
Why is it a bad deal? Mobile data networks are expensive to build thus mobile data is expensive to provide. If you want it someone needs to pay for it, the networks aren't doing charity deals!
Am I missing something?
Quote from: Rico on January 26, 2011, 11:16:07 AM
Quote from: billybob476 on January 26, 2011, 10:15:18 AM
Right now I have unlimited local calling for 35.00/month plus another 30 for an iPhone feature pack (visual voicemail, caller id, unlimited SMS and MMS and some other junk) and 500 meg data.
Here in Canada we get killed on data and long distance.
That seems weird about long distance for cell phone use. That applies when you call other cell phone users too? Does it apply if they use an iPhone??
Long distance here is a little complex when it comes to cell phones. It has to do with where you are in relation to your 'home zone'.
For example, I am in Toronto which has an area code of 416. As long as I am standing in the 416, any of my received calls are considered local. Additionally if I am in the 416, any calls I make to the 416 are also considered local. Any calls I make to other area codes are considered long distance (in general).
If I am out of the 416 (say I am visiting my parents in Montreal area code 514, a 5 hour drive away), any calls I recieve are considered long distance on my end so I pay long distance charges on any recieved calls. Any calls I make to the area code I am in (514 for Montreal) are considered local calls. Any calls I make back to Toronto are long distance. Any calls I receive from anyone are charged as long distance.
All our mobile providers have these outlined in their FAQs, it is incredibly confusing.
Wow Joe - that is complex. One reason I haven't jumped into all this much yet is I love the low cost of my current phone. I can do voice and text all day long, to pretty much anyone in the US for no extra charges. It works out very well with my current travel situation being in two places like this. I imagine business travel people in Canada must rack up some hefty long distance charges.
Quote from: Feathers on January 26, 2011, 11:24:44 AM
Why is it a bad deal? Mobile data networks are expensive to build thus mobile data is expensive to provide. If you want it someone needs to pay for it, the networks aren't doing charity deals!
Am I missing something?
I'm with you. People want everything free or cheap then will complain when the network can't support it. If you want to use a lap top or something with unlimited data, then buy the laptop connection. I think the tethering thing is more for a quick way to jump on the web with your other devices, but giving everyone in the range of your iphone free unlimited internet is no going to happen.
We do have "Canada-wide" plans but they are much more expensive. What I end up doing if I'm out and about and need to call long distance is just fire up skype on my iPhone. There's no long distance charges on data (unless you're out of country).
There are also long distance addons and such but it's not at all as good as the US. My brother lived in Florida for almost a year with a California cell phone number. In Canada I think you'd rack an incredible bill if you did something like that.
Yeah Joe, I've done that for over a year. Michigan area code/cell phone, living in Illinois much of the time.
Here's one reason people (me included) think these charges are high. AT&T for example made net profits in the billions in 2010. I'm not opposed to a company making money, but please don't think for a second they are not so far into the black on their books that some of these charges couldn't be tweaked some. Let's hope some competition helps a little with that.
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 11:41:08 AM
Quote from: Feathers on January 26, 2011, 11:24:44 AM
Why is it a bad deal? Mobile data networks are expensive to build thus mobile data is expensive to provide. If you want it someone needs to pay for it, the networks aren't doing charity deals!
Am I missing something?
I'm with you. People want everything free or cheap then will complain when the network can't support it. If you want to use a lap top or something with unlimited data, then buy the laptop connection. I think the tethering thing is more for a quick way to jump on the web with your other devices, but giving everyone in the range of your iphone free unlimited internet is no going to happen.
I fully agree with this, what I don't agree with is charging for SMS messages. I mean at the end of the day texts are very small data packets. If you have a data plan it should just subtract from that total. Charging for SMS is a holdover from analog days. God, I remember when you could only send texts to people who were on the same provider as you.
Quote from: billybob476 on January 26, 2011, 11:47:40 AM
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 11:41:08 AM
Quote from: Feathers on January 26, 2011, 11:24:44 AM
Why is it a bad deal? Mobile data networks are expensive to build thus mobile data is expensive to provide. If you want it someone needs to pay for it, the networks aren't doing charity deals!
Am I missing something?
I'm with you. People want everything free or cheap then will complain when the network can't support it. If you want to use a lap top or something with unlimited data, then buy the laptop connection. I think the tethering thing is more for a quick way to jump on the web with your other devices, but giving everyone in the range of your iphone free unlimited internet is no going to happen.
I fully agree with this, what I don't agree with is charging for SMS messages. I mean at the end of the day texts are very small data packets. If you have a data plan it should just subtract from that total. Charging for SMS is a holdover from analog days. God, I remember when you could only send texts to people who were on the same provider as you.
X, I'm not under some delusion this will be free. But you get 2 GB to be spread out to 5 computers for $20 additional cost per month. Unless your doing very basic web browsing, that 2 GB will not last the month. Last month I did a heavy amount of 3G usage on my DL trip. I hit 1.125 GB by the end of the month and that was 2 weeks on one phone with very little (if any) video streaming. I don't see how 5 computers are supposed to stay under 2 GBs over the month period, thus making this feature really costly. At the very least I would like to see 5-10 GBs per month or a reduction in cost, $5-10. Unfortunately I don't see it happening because ppl will still pay it. Sadly.
No, I'm not saying we need to be able to stream youtube over 5 computers either. But it would be nice if there was a bigger amount of data. 2GBs would require a lot of vigilance, ad-blocking and so on.
King
Quote from: Feathers on January 26, 2011, 11:24:44 AM
Why is it a bad deal? Mobile data networks are expensive to build thus mobile data is expensive to provide. If you want it someone needs to pay for it, the networks aren't doing charity deals!
Am I missing something?
What you'd be missing is a small fortune if you were fool enough to pay these ridiculous additional charges. Explain to me why, if you are paying $40 a month or whatever it is they are charging for a data plan for their phone, then an additional $20 to activate the ability in the phone to have it operate as a hotspot, that they would set an artificial limit of 2G data on other devices connecting to the hotspot you are already paying extra for? The only possible reason for that limit, that I can think of anyway, is so they can hit people with even MORE charges when they go over their 2G data cap with their shiny new iPhone hotspot.
Nickel and diming new customers this way is NOT a good strategy when they need to build brand loyalty and make people want to commit to a multi year contract. I believe Verizon is way overestimating the ability of iPhone to draw new customers away from other carriers. They've taken basically the only feature that makes their plan better or different from AT&T (the hotspot) and crippled it.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 26, 2011, 12:08:35 PM
Quote from: Feathers on January 26, 2011, 11:24:44 AM
Why is it a bad deal? Mobile data networks are expensive to build thus mobile data is expensive to provide. If you want it someone needs to pay for it, the networks aren't doing charity deals!
Am I missing something?
What you'd be missing is a small fortune if you were fool enough to pay these ridiculous additional charges. Explain to me why, if you are paying $40 a month or whatever it is they are charging for a data plan for their phone, then an additional $20 to activate the ability in the phone to have it operate as a hotspot, that they would set an artificial limit of 2G data on other devices connecting to the hotspot you are already paying extra for? The only possible reason for that limit, that I can think of anyway, is so they can hit people with even MORE charges when they go over their 2G data cap with their shiny new iPhone hotspot.
Nickel and diming new customers this way is NOT a good strategy when they need to build brand loyalty and make people want to commit to a multi year contract. I believe Verizon is way overestimating the ability of iPhone to draw new customers away from other carriers. They've taken basically the only feature that makes their plan better or different from AT&T (the hotspot) and crippled it.
Actually, you explained it better than I did, thank you. :)
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 26, 2011, 11:54:59 AM
Quote from: billybob476 on January 26, 2011, 11:47:40 AM
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 11:41:08 AM
Quote from: Feathers on January 26, 2011, 11:24:44 AM
Why is it a bad deal? Mobile data networks are expensive to build thus mobile data is expensive to provide. If you want it someone needs to pay for it, the networks aren't doing charity deals!
Am I missing something?
I'm with you. People want everything free or cheap then will complain when the network can't support it. If you want to use a lap top or something with unlimited data, then buy the laptop connection. I think the tethering thing is more for a quick way to jump on the web with your other devices, but giving everyone in the range of your iphone free unlimited internet is no going to happen.
I fully agree with this, what I don't agree with is charging for SMS messages. I mean at the end of the day texts are very small data packets. If you have a data plan it should just subtract from that total. Charging for SMS is a holdover from analog days. God, I remember when you could only send texts to people who were on the same provider as you.
X, I'm not under some delusion this will be free. But you get 2 GB to be spread out to 5 computers for $20 additional cost per month. Unless your doing very basic web browsing, that 2 GB will not last the month. Last month I did a heavy amount of 3G usage on my DL trip. I hit 1.125 GB by the end of the month and that was 2 weeks on one phone with very little (if any) video streaming. I don't see how 5 computers are supposed to stay under 2 GBs over the month period, thus making this feature really costly. At the very least I would like to see 5-10 GBs per month or a reduction in cost, $5-10. Unfortunately I don't see it happening because ppl will still pay it. Sadly.
No, I'm not saying we need to be able to stream youtube over 5 computers either. But it would be nice if there was a bigger amount of data. 2GBs would require a lot of vigilance, ad-blocking and so on.
King
That's the point, they don't want you trying to run 5 computers off of every iphone. If you want to have a better connection to the internet, then you have to buy one of the data devices. It makes no logical sense to give out free internet. it's suposed to be a quick way to get on the web, not an alternate service provider for you and you five closest friends.
If that's the point, that is a very expensive "quick way" to get on the web. Guess I'll be seeing a lot more Starbucks and such in the near future ;)
King
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 11:41:08 AM
I'm with you. People want everything free or cheap then will complain when the network can't support it. If you want to use a lap top or something with unlimited data, then buy the laptop connection. I think the tethering thing is more for a quick way to jump on the web with your other devices, but giving everyone in the range of your iphone free unlimited internet is no going to happen.
Ridiculous. Nobody is asking for anything for free or even cheap. Far from it. These plan cost a small fortune already. As I'm sure you are well aware, Chris, there are many companies that offer wireless mobile hotspots that allow multiple devices to connect to them with data plans comparable to home internet service providers. The tethering feature of the iPhone could potentially be competition for those services but the data cap makes it worthless for anything other than an occasional web surf or email check. Stream something like three or four movies a month and you are over the cap.
What I am pointing out is the absurdity of paying a monthly fee for a voice plan, additional money for a data plan, additional money for tethering, and then being subject to FEES if your tethering goes over 2GB when one of the features of your $30 data plan is unlimited data!
Even more absurd is that a very large percentage of people that will be paying these costs and fees are already paying separately for home internet access as well.
Over here in the UK I am with O2 and to be fair I am very happy with them, i pay £35 a month and have unlimited internet, 500 texts and free calls. O2 has just announced free, yes FREE wifi hotspots around the country even if you are not on their network.
Here is the report.
O2 has unveiled its plans to launch O2 Wifi, a system of Wi-Fi hotspots in retailers and public spaces around the UK that will be free for anyone to use.
You won't even need to be an O2 customer to make use of the free Wi-Fi, with O2 aiming to make its money from venue partners instead of Joe Public.
In a similar style to BT Openzone and The Cloud, users will be able to connect to available Wi-Fi – but it won't cost them any money, just a few minutes of their time to sign up.
No one likes a stagnant Wi-Fi market
Gavin Franks, MD of O2 Wifi, told us, "We're going to transform the stagnant Wi-Fi market with O2 Wifi.
"Demands on public Wi-Fi have changed drastically over the last three years; it's no longer about getting your laptop out in a coffee shop for half an hour. Now people want to use it for five minutes in a shop to update their Facebook status instead.
"Our main aim was to make it better than what's already available; with consistent data speeds and a focus on usability. I genuinely believe it will transform the market and force The Cloud and BT Openzone to reassess their services."
Network strain
When asked if the move to open Wi-Fi was intended to relieve strain on O2's data networks, Tim Sefton, O2's New Business Development Director, emphatically denied that this was the case:
"Our network is in a really good position. We have no concerns about its capability to deliver the data capacity required by our customers," he said.
"Reducing strain on the network is a secondary benefit to the Wi-Fi network, and not a primary driver."
O2 also revealed that it is increasing its investment in the mobile network by 25 per cent in 2011, building on the £1m spent per day in 2010.
The O2 Wifi service will launch in O2 retail stores in March, with commercial partners, including shops and fast food chains, set to join the scheme in Q2.
Read more: http://www.techradar.com/news/internet/web/o2-to-launch-free-wi-fi-hotspots-for-all-923780#ixzz1CAuzyGrQ (http://www.techradar.com/news/internet/web/o2-to-launch-free-wi-fi-hotspots-for-all-923780#ixzz1CAuzyGrQ)
Hmm, heard a similar bill from a guy in Sweden. The EU has a better Cellular business than the US by far, you pretty much confirmed that.
Or I should say, a more user-friendly business.
As Joby said, I feel like this deal is getting worse all the time. It would be nice if one of the big guys threw us a a bone.
King
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 26, 2011, 12:21:26 PM
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 11:41:08 AM
I'm with you. People want everything free or cheap then will complain when the network can't support it. If you want to use a lap top or something with unlimited data, then buy the laptop connection. I think the tethering thing is more for a quick way to jump on the web with your other devices, but giving everyone in the range of your iphone free unlimited internet is no going to happen.
Ridiculous. Nobody is asking for anything for free or even cheap. Far from it. These plan cost a small fortune already. As I'm sure you are well aware, Chris, there are many companies that offer wireless mobile hotspots that allow multiple devices to connect to them with data plans comparable to home internet service providers. The tethering feature of the iPhone could potentially be competition for those services but the data cap makes it worthless for anything other than an occasional web surf or email check. Stream something like three or four movies a month and you are over the cap.
What I am pointing out is the absurdity of paying a monthly fee for a voice plan, additional money for a data plan, additional money for tethering, and then being subject to FEES if your tethering goes over 2GB when one of the features of your $30 data plan is unlimited data!
Even more absurd is that a very large percentage of people that will be paying these costs and fees are already paying separately for home internet access as well.
I don't see a problem. As you have pointed out the limits of the plan, I'm sure that other people can decide if it's right for them. I also think that they can decide if they want to go over the limits and pay extra. I'm sure that there will be tons of people that want to show off their hotspot and will take the overages. Maybe they feel that if you're going to pay for an over priced phone, you'll also pay for an over priced data plan?
Meds, we have a ton of free hotspots here. In big cities, you can't go too far without getting a free hotspot.
Comcast offers free WiFi hotspots in various locations around Philly but only for its customers. I haven't been able to find one yet, but I think that's a pretty cool trend.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 26, 2011, 12:29:55 PM
Hmm, heard a similar bill from a guy in Sweden. The EU has a better Cellular business than the US by far, you pretty much confirmed that.
Or I should say, a more user-friendly business.
As Joby said, I feel like this deal is getting worse all the time. It would be nice if one of the big guys threw us a a bone.
King
Again the US has tons of free hotspots and many cities are building their own free wifi networks.
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 26, 2011, 12:29:55 PM
Hmm, heard a similar bill from a guy in Sweden. The EU has a better Cellular business than the US by far, you pretty much confirmed that.
Or I should say, a more user-friendly business.
As Joby said, I feel like this deal is getting worse all the time. It would be nice if one of the big guys threw us a a bone.
King
Again the US has tons of free hotspots and many cities are building their own free wifi networks.
Its not the Wifi I'm referring to Chris, its how much they charge their Droid and iPhone users. They have a much more user-friendly plan than we do. Or at least that's how I see it.
King
Chris, its a important thing for the UK, i'm not comparing it to the land of the centre of the universe. ;) lol
For a phone company to say to customers of other networks hey you can use us for free is brilliant and also a great friendly company advert.
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 12:30:22 PM
I don't see a problem. As you have pointed out the limits of the plan, I'm sure that other people can decide if it's right for them. I also think that they can decide if they want to go over the limits and pay extra. I'm sure that there will be tons of people that want to show off their hotspot and will take the overages. Maybe they feel that if you're going to pay for an over priced phone, you'll also pay for an over priced data plan?
I guess the problem is that based on your comments you seem to agree with what Tim and I are saying, and yet feel the need to be contrary and argumentative? I just don't understand.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 26, 2011, 12:34:06 PM
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on January 26, 2011, 12:29:55 PM
Hmm, heard a similar bill from a guy in Sweden. The EU has a better Cellular business than the US by far, you pretty much confirmed that.
Or I should say, a more user-friendly business.
As Joby said, I feel like this deal is getting worse all the time. It would be nice if one of the big guys threw us a a bone.
King
Again the US has tons of free hotspots and many cities are building their own free wifi networks.
Its not the Wifi I'm referring to Chris, its how much they charge their Droid and iPhone users. They have a much more user-friendly plan than we do. Or at least that's how I see it.
King
I think that you aren't looking at the whole picture. We have millions more people trying to get time on the networks that we have here. It's a simple case of supply and demand. Our networks could support everyone there with little issue. However, we are here and we have people that pretty much live on the internet. Due to us having a higher demand and add a dash of network limits, they can charge more and bundle these things as premiums because people are willing to pay premium prices for them.
There are a good deal of inclusive cell phone plans around the country that are around the UK in price and features, but they aren't the big providers and they don't support the iPHone.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 26, 2011, 12:43:29 PM
I guess the problem is that based on your comments you seem to agree with what Tim and I are saying, and yet feel the need to be contrary and argumentative? I just don't understand.
What I'm saying is easier than that. I see why they are placing limits on the plans. I also think that it's over priced to me, but there will be thousands if not more of people that will see it as a fair price and pay the premium. I personally don't see a need to ever want to turn my phone into a hotspot, but I'm sure there are going to be people that disagree with that. In the end, it's a premium service that really isn't needed. If you can check your emails on your phone, why do you need a hotspot?
Maybe I'm missing something. What does it offer that you can't do on your phone already?
Well its quicker isnt it. I mean, the world today its all wnat want want, I want it now, i want it fast etc.
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 12:49:17 PM
Maybe I'm missing something. What does it offer that you can't do on your phone already?
NOTHING that
was the entire point. LOL
Personally, I suppose I imagined that if I had this service, with tethering activated I could have used the wifi to use my iPad in the wild for Netflix. Obviously not an option the way the plan is structured now.
For my purposes, I suppose I will eventually look into one of those 4G wireless hotspots that companies like Clear, Comcast, and Verizon offer here in Philly, and see if it would meet my needs better than the current Comcast cable internet I am getting.
My outrage I suppose is fundamentally at paying twice for what amounts to the same service. $40 a month for home internet and $130+ for mobile internet for me and my wife through the iPhone. Nobody is holding guns to our head and forcing us to use these services, but we do love them.
Unless the tethering has changed with the Wifi hotspots, you cannot connect your iPad to your iPhone. Jobs made it that way (shouldn't be hard to figure out why either....=\)
King
My understanding is that with the new Verizon iPhones that restriction has been lifted.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 26, 2011, 01:06:09 PM
My understanding is that with the new Verizon iPhones that restriction has been lifted.
:blink
Hmm, that changes my plans for the next iPad then....(maybe)
King
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 12:16:17 PM
That's the point, they don't want you trying to run 5 computers off of every iphone. If you want to have a better connection to the internet, then you have to buy one of the data devices. It makes no logical sense to give out free internet. it's suposed to be a quick way to get on the web, not an alternate service provider for you and you five closest friends.
I guess I don't quite understand the fundamentals of this deal. I thought you were limited to five devices total, for example for me it could be my iPad, my home computer, my work computer, my laptop, and one other device. Are you saying that any five devices anywhere can connect to the hotspot if you allow it? If that is the case then I can begin to understand the data limits.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 26, 2011, 01:23:46 PM
Quote from: X on January 26, 2011, 12:16:17 PM
That's the point, they don't want you trying to run 5 computers off of every iphone. If you want to have a better connection to the internet, then you have to buy one of the data devices. It makes no logical sense to give out free internet. it's suposed to be a quick way to get on the web, not an alternate service provider for you and you five closest friends.
I guess I don't quite understand the fundamentals of this deal. I thought you were limited to five devices total, for example for me it could be my iPad, my home computer, my work computer, my laptop, and one other device. Are you saying that any five devices anywhere can connect to the hotspot if you allow it? If that is the case then I can begin to understand the data limits.
yes. it's basically a mini router with up to five connections that can be active.
Apparently Verizon got a deluge of customers to their website so much that it froze up for a while today. \
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/02/03/iphone-pre-orders-slam-verizon-wireless-website/ (http://www.tuaw.com/2011/02/03/iphone-pre-orders-slam-verizon-wireless-website/)
Review of the Verizon iPhone VS AT&T's version:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/02/verizon-iphone-review/ (http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/02/verizon-iphone-review/)
Also, for you Verizon iPhone users, some interesting 3G usage news:
http://engt.co/fgQmh4 (http://engt.co/fgQmh4)
Also, for AT&T users, we get 2GB+ if we add on tethering. This makes me wonder if the 3G iPad will come down in price, as tethering the iPhone with the iPad is now cheaper than buying 3G iPad. Will have to wait and see. (Unless you don't buy the iPhone)
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/02/atandt-adding-an-extra-2gb-to-phone-tethering-plans-launching-mob/ (http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/02/atandt-adding-an-extra-2gb-to-phone-tethering-plans-launching-mob/)
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/03/iphone-4-to-get-atandt-mobile-hotspot-capabilities-on-february-13t/ (http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/03/iphone-4-to-get-atandt-mobile-hotspot-capabilities-on-february-13t/)
Also, iOS 4.3 will probably be coming out in the next week or so. (Just guessing from the article above)
I know these are from engadget, but similar ones have been posted on other websites and I'm feeling a bit lazy today :P.
King
That data throttling announcement is bad news for all those new Verizon subscribers. I guess it's not too long before we see these kind of changes in our home internet services as well. Comcast certainly has a vested interest in destroying any chance that Netflix and Hulu have of succeeding, as well as stopping people from downloading/streaming movies and TV for free from the darker side of the internet. I'd guess they might raise their "cap" from 250 gb to something higher and simultaneously announce they throttle anyone that goes over 20 gb a month so that streaming or downloading large files is impossible.
I don't think things like cable internet and DSL service to home is going to change much. If anything data allowed will increase - because it has to. The cable networks can handle this type of data better than say 3G or even 4G. Streaming Netflix to my TV via Comcast is much easier than to a cell phone. As long as money is being made, they will be happy.
Also based on what's been happening here in Canada with the CTRC and their crazy metered internet legislation being overturned it seems that "the people" won't take these restrictions much longer.
Why Joe, what are the people doing about it? I read that stuff about Canada's new data caps and felt the dark side of the force very strongly
The government basically told the CRTC that the plan as it was laid out is not to go forward. They have to either go back to the drawing board or drop it completely. It was deemed anti-competitive.
One of the issues is the content makers are doing everything in HD these days, so they need a way to get this content to people. Even watching a couple of hours of HD content should be ok and not incur some type of over limit or penalty. We also have on the horizon 4K content which is like 4 times the data. I can see maybe restricting someone who looks like they are streaming 24/7 HD content, but your average user should not be hitting any type of caps.
The issue here is that ISPs are leading us to believe that high-volume users are causing problems for "normal" users. I've been listening to a loit of discussion about this and the general consensus is that this is not the case. The costly part of this equation is providing the initial connection to users (i.e. laying fibre to the curb, etc). The cost of the data flowing across those lines is negligible at best. ISPs are charging us 1-4 dollars per gig for bandwidth over an arbitrary cap that costs them little more then 1 cent to provide to us.
Quote from: Rico on February 04, 2011, 08:14:59 AM
One of the issues is the content makers are doing everything in HD these days, so they need a way to get this content to people. Even watching a couple of hours of HD content should be ok and not incur some type of over limit or penalty. We also have on the horizon 4K content which is like 4 times the data. I can see maybe restricting someone who looks like they are streaming 24/7 HD content, but your average user should not be hitting any type of caps.
I don't really understand the tech behind streaming HD video, I know the file size involved has something to do with the bit rate and other gobbledygook, but I would guess a very conservative estimate for watching a two hour HD movie would be around 4 GB? At four movies a week that would put Canadians over their proposed monthly cap in a week and a half.
Exactly. And files sizes are only going to get bigger in the future. So, they have to expect this type of usage is going to be there.
Yeah at top quality and hour of HD netflix is around 1.7 gigs (of course it depends on the movie and the capabilities of your connection). I watched 3 seasons of Mad Men in a month and busted my 60GB cap by a gig or two a few months ago. I'm now on a 75GB plan.
As I see it, we are the mercy of the IPs who are crying foul at the "overload" to their systems and trying to charge people more for the service when they don't actually need to. It worries me because we are their mercy and they could probably get away with it too....I mean, AT&T and Verizon are doing it to our smart-phones, (charging by the GB) they are probably wondering why they can't do it to our computers.
*sigh*.
King
As long as there is competition in your area there's only so much they can push on you. This holds for computer internet providers and cell phone carriers. But, if you live in an area with only one option you might get pinched a bit harder.
Quote from: Rico on February 04, 2011, 11:14:52 AM
As long as there is competition in your area there's only so much they can push on you. This holds for computer internet providers and cell phone carriers. But, if you live in an area with only one option you might get pinched a bit harder.
That's the problem, there is a lack of overall choice/competition. And with IPs being bought up by bigger companies, that list is growing shorter...
Anyway, nothing we can do at this point but wait and hope that everything works out. Or start our own IP :)
King
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/02/07/verizon-iphone-sales-broke-500-000/ (http://www.tuaw.com/2011/02/07/verizon-iphone-sales-broke-500-000/)
Phew, that is a lot of pre-orders.
King
Looks like the Verizon iPhone 4 includes a new antenna design and a few other upgrades.
A closer look inside the new CDMA iPhone 4 for the Verizon network in the U.S. has revealed a new antenna design said to allow improved reception, as well as a different, integrated GPS chip.
iSuppli this week posted "early results" of its teardown of Apple's new CDMA iPhone 4. The market research company found that while Apple retained the fundamental integrated antenna and enclosure design for the CDMA variant of the iPhone 4, the new CDMA version "employs a dual-antenna design that takes advantage of antenna diversity to improve reception."
When the GSM iPhone 4 shipped on rival carrier AT&T's network last summer, users found that covering the bottom left corner of the handset could result in some signal loss. The issue gained a considerable amount of media attention, most of which died down after Apple gave away free cases to phone buyers for a limited time.
Still, the issue prompted multiple competitors, including Verizon, to poke fun at the controversy. Verizon mocked the iPhone 4 antenna issue with a full-page ad in The New York Times last July to promote its Droid X handset, noting that the phone had a "double antenna design" that "allows you to hold the phone any way you like."
iSuppli's teardown also discovered that Apple has eliminated the use of a discrete GPS chip, which was previously supplied by Broadcom. Instead, the new CDMA iPhone 4 utilizes the integrated GPS functionality found on the Qualcomm MDM6600 baseband....
full story:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/08/apples_verizon_iphone_4_has_improved_antenna_integrated_gps.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/08/apples_verizon_iphone_4_has_improved_antenna_integrated_gps.html)
While this is good news, they would have had to redesign the antenna regardless considering the phone also now has a CDMA antenna.
Quote from: billybob476 on February 08, 2011, 06:59:59 AM
While this is good news, they would have had to redesign the antenna regardless considering the phone also now has a CDMA antenna.
Yes. It says nothing about having redesigned the GSM variant as well. I assume that will wait for the '5'.
iphone 5 is rumoured to be announced in July, that should have a few of the old problems sorted.
Tech writer Robert Scoble has a pretty fair review of Verizon's iPhone and how it compares to AT&T for him.
All the other reviews you've seen are from journalists who received Verizon iPhones from either Verizon or Apple and didn't have to pay for them. I had no such loaner, so had to do the honorable thing: I bought one and used it for a week now. It cost me about $250 because I already ahd a Verizon account. Here's my report.
PROS FOR VERIZON
1. No dropped calls. My AT&T phone had six drops in same time, at same places I've used the Verizon at.
2. A wider coverage area in SF area. I've been several places where AT&T just refuses to work, like on Devil's Slide, or in some places in downtown San Francisco (on second street, for instance) but Verizon hasn't failed yet.
3. Demonstratably clearer voice quality, even when an AT&T phone is used on other side. This is amazing, too. The voice quality is just much better with EVERY call. Not a single call has sounded worse (I asked lots of my friends to call back on my Verizon number). This is so drastic a difference that I've now switched my voice to Verizon permanently.
4. Data worked more places. It was interesting, but lots of places in SF I can't use data. I don't know if it's an overload problem, or a signal problem, or what not. But when I hit one of those spots, like near second street and mission, I pulled out my Verizon phone and it had a great data signal and worked fine.
5. Wifi hotspot out of the box. This rocks, because now my kids can use the iPads in the back seat of the car. Yeah, I know, all you Android users and Palm users have had that for months, if not years, but glad to see iPhone users are finally getting that capability. That said, Verizon is charging something like $40 a month more for that. Yikes.
AT&T PROS
1. You can use Voice and Data at same time on AT&T. This is definitely something that bugs me, but it hasn't bugged me as much as I expected. For one, most of the time when I use voice I'm at home and have access to wifi, so this problem doesn't happen there (when I'm driving I rarely use voice and data together, which is most of the time when I use voice). But it is a problem and you'll have to decide for yourself which is more important, great voice quality and no dropped calls or the ability to use voice and data together.
2. International usage. I'll be in Amsterdam in six weeks, and AT&T works there, but I don't think the Verizon phone will.
3. Data speed. Yes, overall, AT&T is faster, but usually that doesn't matter for me. Why? I could only tell in some spots when I had strong AT&T signals.
So, which one wins?
Well, for me, Verizon does. Why? Because it more consistently worked with both data and voice. But with the caveat that you stay in the US and that you don't care about using voice and data at the same time.
Luckily, I have both an AT&T and a Verizon phone, so I have the best of both worlds, but that's a luxury very few of you can afford. Personally I hate AT&T and how they have treated most of us iPhone users the past three years. The quality of service just hasn't been close to what it needs to be for the charges they are getting.
Good luck!
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/a-week-with-my-verizon-iphone-pros-and-cons-2011-2#ixzz1EVT9yilS (http://www.businessinsider.com/a-week-with-my-verizon-iphone-pros-and-cons-2011-2#ixzz1EVT9yilS)
Looks like a white iPhone is still coming...
http://www.pcworld.com/article/225295/apple_white_iphone_4_is_real_and_late.html (http://www.pcworld.com/article/225295/apple_white_iphone_4_is_real_and_late.html)
annnnnnd it is official...this is kind of random to me.
Quote
White iPhone Arrives Tomorrow
CUPERTINO, California—April 27, 2011—Apple® today announced that the white iPhone® 4 will be available beginning tomorrow. White iPhone 4 models will be available from Apple's online store (www.apple.com (http://www.apple.com)), at Apple's retail stores, AT&T and Verizon Wireless stores and select Apple Authorized Resellers.
"The white iPhone 4 has finally arrived and it's beautiful," said Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. "We appreciate everyone who has waited patiently while we've worked to get every detail right."
iPhone 4 is the most innovative phone in the world, featuring Apple's stunning Retina™ display, the highest resolution display ever built into a phone resulting in super crisp text, images and video, and FaceTime®, which makes video calling a reality.
Pricing & Availability
White models of iPhone 4 will be available in Austria, Australia, Belgium, Canada, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Macau, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Switzerland, Sweden, Taiwan, Thailand, UK and the US, beginning Thursday, April 28 and in many more countries around the world soon. White iPhone 4 will be available for a suggested retail price of $199 (US) for the 16GB model and $299 (US) for the 32GB model with a new two year agreement through the Apple Store® (www.apple.com (http://www.apple.com)), at Apple's retail stores, AT&T and Verizon Wireless stores and select Apple Authorized Resellers.
Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced iPad 2 which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27iphone.html (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27iphone.html)