There's been some pretty major announcements in the past 24 hours from Microsoft concerning their new console, the Xbox One. After the initial reveal of the new system a couple of weeks ago, there was alot of outcry from fans and gamers, mostly about what wasn't said, more than what was announced. While there was some consternation about the fact that Microsoft chose to focus most of the conference on their entertainment and TV features, like Kinect integration, Skype, their foray into original TV programming via a Halo TV series, and enhanced TV and movie features via HDMI pass through from your cable box, many people were concerned by the company's refusal to address questions that have been asked for many month prior to the reveal: namely about used game functionality, always-on connectivity, and Kinect privacy features.
Microsoft detailed their policies yesterday, and it signals a pretty new way of doing business for them, for developers and publishers, and especially for gamers.
The rumors of "always-online" connectivity being required to play games turned out to be exaggerated, but the truth is similarly concerning. The Xbox One will need to be connected to the internet for authentication once every 24 hours when logged in to your account from your home console. It will need to be connected to the internet once every hour when logged in to your account on someone else's console. This means, if you're used to packing up your Xbox and taking it on the road, for a vacation, to a friends house, or wherever, you'd have to be sure you have a way to connect it to the internet or else you won't be able to play your games after 24 hours. While probably not too concerning for most people (I've never taken my console on the road), this still seems like a pretty harsh restriction that will anger some and offers the consumer no benefit.
More troubling is the DRM and licensing requirements for next-generation console games. Disc based gaming seems to be on its way out. The disc now is just a means of transferring the data on them to the hardware. Installation is mandatory, and once installed, you'll not need the disc again and can play right from the console. Furthermore, all games will now be offered for digital download on the day of release, as well as in stores on disc. This is all okay, but the problem comes from the crazy restrictions they are putting on the resale, loaning, renting, and gifting of previously owned games. Game licenses for disc based games can only be transferred if the publisher allows it, and it remains to be seen if any publisher believes it would be in their interest to enable this functionality in the games they are selling. Microsoft is saying that they are working with partners, presumably the bigger retailers like Gamestop, Walmart and the like, to allow for the resale of Xbox One games through an authentication process yet to be discussed or disclosed. Utimately, when you are done with a game and you want to sell or trade it in for credit, you'll be limited to where and when Microsoft and the game's publisher says you can do this. No more selling/buying games on Craiglist, Ebay, Cheap-Ass Gamer. They're saying you'll "eventually" be able to gift a game to a friend when you're done with it, which is ultimately transferring the license from yourself to your friend, but that person has to have been on your Xbox Live friends list for more than 30 days, and can only be done a total of one time per game...this is presumably to eliminate the ability for people to sell games over the internet to strangers.
The best case scenario we can hope for, is that the majority of publishers will restrict the resale of their games for the first month or two after release, the period when sales are most important and are most brisk. Then after this period, they can enable this functionality and allow for trade or resale.
They're also eliminating the ability to rent games from places like Redbox, Gamefly, and Blockbuster, at least upon the initial launch of the system. This is huge, because when new consoles came out in the past I used to rent games like crazy to see which ones I wanted to buy. I've always been a big renter, I love Redbox, and this is the change that is hitting me hardest.
I'll be watching the E3 press conferences very closely to see what kinds of games are announced for these new platforms, especially the Xbox One (Sony has yet to detail their plans on the above topics as of yet). Unless I am extremely WOWed by what I see, I highly doubt I'll be purchasing one of these Microsoft consoles, at least on day one like I had originally planned. I've read alot of gamers that feel the same way, that these changes are hugely anti-consumer and do not benefit the customer in any way. I have to wonder if these practices announced is Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot, and conceding the next-generation console war before the first battle has even begun.
Yeah, if I get anything it will be a PS4, even though I have been an Xbox Guy since 2001. Not liking what I am seeing, and kinda getting tired of gamers being taken for granted. Not feeling it so far.
As with smartphones, they're getting to the point with consoles where the hardware matters less then the software and business rules they are placing on top of that hardware. Both the PS4 and XBox One are effecitvely x86-based PCs.
If we look to PC gaming, we've been living with these restrictions for a long time. I can't buy a game from Steam or Origin and then lend or resell it to anyone else. Demos will probably be a bigger thing and fat the end of the day, I also don't see why a digital rental system couldn't be implemented. You would basically purchase a game key that expires in X number of days.
Quote from: billybob476 on June 07, 2013, 12:50:43 PM
As with smartphones, they're getting to the point with consoles where the hardware matters less then the software and business rules they are placing on top of that hardware. Both the PS4 and XBox One are effecitvely x86-based PCs.
If we look to PC gaming, we've been living with these restrictions for a long time. I can't buy a game from Steam or Origin and then lend or resell it to anyone else. Demos will probably be a bigger thing and fat the end of the day, I also don't see why a digital rental system couldn't be implemented. You would basically purchase a game key that expires in X number of days.
The difference is in the way PC games are sold. PC games rarely release at a $60 price tag, and but for a few exceptions (Blizzard) PC games almost always drop in price very quickly. Sales allow you to pick up entire catalogues of publishers games for a fraction of retail price, and often games less than a few months old will be on sale for $5-$10 online through Amazon or Steam. Also PC games allow you to buy games any way you want: direct from the publisher, from sellers like Good Old Games or the Humble Bundle guys, Steam, etc. All the competition breeds competitive pricing, which is valuable to the consumer. None of that exists on the consoles. But you're right, the line is getting extremely blurred between these new consoles and current gen PCs.
Quote from: ChrisMC on June 07, 2013, 12:43:03 PM
Yeah, if I get anything it will be a PS4, even though I have been an Xbox Guy since 2001. Not liking what I am seeing, and kinda getting tired of gamers being taken for granted. Not feeling it so far.
I just don't understand it, really. What's the benefit to Microsoft for all this? Are publishers really exerting so much pressure that Microsoft feels they must bow in order to get exclusive deals with companies like EA or Activision? Does the benefit of these types of deals and exclusivity that is won from these concessions to publishers outweigh the anger and resentment that is bound to be felt by many of their most hardcore fans and customers? What would these publishers do if Microsoft didn't cave to their demands regarding used games, make widgets and board games instead? Publish only on PC? I doubt it. They must feel like the people that really care about these kinds of issues are in the minority, and they can afford to lose the hardcore in their effort to cater to the vast majority.
You're right about the choice in the PC market, I've always viewed it as the wild west of gaming, it's a lot more freewheeling and dangerous. The console segment is more tightly controlled. I also wonder if they see Apple's model as something to strive for. Super locked down, authorized content only, no trades, no choice.
Again price point comes into play though, an iOS game runs from free to 10 dollars at the outside. People are a lot more willing to accept restirctions at that price.
I think Microsoft and publishers are hugely overestimating the amount of people that have a stable and good enough internet for a check-up every 24 hours. Why they feel this is necessary, I do not know. But I do know, that I don't recommend the Xbox one to anyone right now. The creepy Kinect, the "always-online" DRM and Microsoft's negative attitude towards games and gamers in general makes this a no-recommendation. Your going to be a lot better off with PS4 and Sony as they seem to be actually attracting the developers and gamers towards their consoles without all of the BS.
Why Microsoft is pulling this power play with PC gaming rising back up and mobile gaming becoming a powerhouse, I have no idea. It's a stupid move in my opinion, that will come to bite them in the butt. The advantages of consoles are no longer there: Cheap gaming, no BS attached and ease of use are all gone with this Xbox One. They're marketing this console to the rich gamers (giant mistake) and people who want an all-in-one box....which is bemusing considering the growing popularity of Smart TVs and Rokus.
Congratulations Microsoft on messing this generation up. Between this and Windows 8, it's amazing that you're still profitable.
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 07, 2013, 01:21:57 PM
I think Microsoft and publishers are hugely overestimating the amount of people that have a stable and good enough internet for a check-up every 24 hours. Why they feel this is necessary, I do not know. But I do know, that I don't recommend the Xbox one to anyone right now. The creepy Kinect, the "always-online" DRM and Microsoft's negative attitude towards games and gamers in general makes this a no-recommendation. Your going to be a lot better off with PS4 and Sony as they seem to be actually attracting the developers and gamers towards their consoles without all of the BS.
Why Microsoft is pulling this power play with PC gaming rising back up and mobile gaming becoming a powerhouse, I have no idea. It's a stupid move in my opinion, that will come to bite them in the butt. The advantages of consoles are no longer there: Cheap gaming, no BS attached and ease of use are all gone with this Xbox One. They're marketing this console to the rich gamers (giant mistake) and people who want an all-in-one box....which is bemusing considering the growing popularity of Smart TVs and Rokus.
Congratulations Microsoft on messing this generation up. Between this and Windows 8, it's amazing that you're still profitable.
Office/OEM baby, keep milking that volume license cash cow from the Enterprise.
Quote from: billybob476 on June 07, 2013, 01:18:57 PM
You're right about the choice in the PC market, I've always viewed it as the wild west of gaming, it's a lot more freewheeling and dangerous. The console segment is more tightly controlled. I also wonder if they see Apple's model as something to strive for. Super locked down, authorized content only, no trades, no choice.
Again price point comes into play though, an iOS game runs from free to 10 dollars at the outside. People are a lot more willing to accept restirctions at that price.
Exactly. We're talking about $400-500 hardware (probably), $50-60 a year for Xbox live, more for subscription based services like Netflix/Hulu/Prime, cable TV subscription costs that you need to pay to use their TV functionality, then $60+ per game, along with all these new anti-consumer restrictions and concessions made to pacify big corporations. It's looking to me more and more like I might not be gaming as much in the near future, which makes me pretty sad because it's my favorite hobby, I love it.
Quote from: billybob476 on June 07, 2013, 01:18:57 PM
I also wonder if they see Apple's model as something to strive for. Super locked down, authorized content only, no trades, no choice.
They have to see the way that iTunes and their marketplace has changed the way people buy and listen to music and be DROOLING with desire to want even a percentage of that in their game marketplace. I don't believe this current direction is the way to successfully do this though. It remains to be seen.
I think this will switch a few console gamers to the PC in the long run. Another area where Microsoft are losing ground.
I think in 10 years Microsoft will be mostly a services company with a strong emphasis on the cloud. Azure is huge for them and very profitable. Heck even Apple use it.
Quote from: Dangelus on June 07, 2013, 01:34:18 PM
I think this will switch a few console gamers to the PC in the long run. Another area where Microsoft are losing ground.
I think you're right, I know I'm highly considering forgetting about both PS4 and XBone and just picking up a halfway decent gaming PC. Like I said though, I'll be watching E3 to see if I can resist the sweet, sweet tempatation of next generation games.
I think they should adopt the steam model. I buy so many games on there it's like a sickness, I haven't even played 3/4 of them yet. There's no way I'd do that with a 60 dollar game. I know there are certain licensing costs for 3rd party developers to work on consoles, but who sets game prices? Is it the publishers?
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 07, 2013, 01:41:48 PM
Quote from: Dangelus on June 07, 2013, 01:34:18 PM
I think this will switch a few console gamers to the PC in the long run. Another area where Microsoft are losing ground.
I think you're right, I know I'm highly considering forgetting about both PS4 and XBone and just picking up a halfway decent gaming PC. Like I said though, I'll be watching E3 to see if I can resist the sweet, sweet tempatation of next generation games.
Unless something VERY compelling comes out, I'll be sticking to my PC. You can build a very decent gaming rig for as much as one of these consoles is going to cost.
Quote from: billybob476 on June 07, 2013, 01:44:12 PM
I think they should adopt the steam model. I buy so many games on there it's like a sickness, I haven't even played 3/4 of them yet. There's no way I'd do that with a 60 dollar game. I know there are certain licensing costs for 3rd party developers to work on consoles, but who sets game prices? Is it the publishers?
Yep I'm loving the value for money, choice and convenience of Steam. And I'm running it on a Linux box! Lol
Quote from: billybob476 on June 07, 2013, 01:44:12 PM
I think they should adopt the steam model. I buy so many games on there it's like a sickness, I haven't even played 3/4 of them yet. There's no way I'd do that with a 60 dollar game. I know there are certain licensing costs for 3rd party developers to work on consoles, but who sets game prices? Is it the publishers?
Yes, it is the publishers that set the price. AFAIK
The real big future money is in portable. Game consoles are trojan horses now to become total home media centers.
Core gaming is likely to swap back to PCs. As it is, the disadvantages are starting to outweigh the advantages of console gaming. Casual gaming is going mobile and I don't see that changing anytime soon. That is, until people get fed up with the iOS freemium market which based on Zynga's poor performance lately, might come true sooner than I thought.
Tis a sad state of affairs.
I'm already excited to get my first Xbox One. None of the stuff that was mentioned affects me in any way what so ever. I'm always online on my XBOX and I don't sell and rarely lend my games out.
I think that people are overlooking the forest for the trees in this as well. The reason that Console games stay expensive is that they are trying to recoup the losses to the second hand market. If you have noticed the Xbox marketplace in the past, new games are showing up there sooner and with some nice price breaks within the first month.
I really don't think that these policies will affect the vast majority of console gamers in the slightest. If your system can't connect for a few seconds to do a check, then you probably don't need to buy an internet connected entertainment system that is built for the cloud in the first place.
I think that at the end of the day, pricing is going to be far better with this system than with the current generation and I like that.
Quote from: X on June 07, 2013, 03:10:39 PM
I really don't think that these policies will affect the vast majority of console gamers in the slightest. If your system can't connect for a few seconds to do a check, then you probably don't need to buy an internet connected entertainment system that is built for the cloud in the first place.
I think that at the end of the day, pricing is going to be far better with this system than with the current generation and I like that.
1) I've had weeks where the Internet shuts down for days. I live in Eugene, OR, one of the supposed technologically advanced cities in the state of Oregon. The Xbox One wouldn't work because of the Internet Provider's incompetence. (Which happens to be Comcast. One of the worst and yet most dominate ISPs in the USA.) And I'm in a best-case scenario. My hometown has some of the worst ISP practices thanks to a monopoly going on there. Internet can be slow/flaky/down for days or weeks on end. At least with my PC, I can still play a good chunk of my games even if the ISP suddenly decides to cut out. And I'm in a best-case scenario. I know too many people that have poor to non-existent internet where they live.
Also, you're placing a ton of trust in Microsoft that their servers will stay up and running for the next X amount of years and will never falter at any time you want to play games. As we've seen with many companies in the past year: Blizzard, EA, CCP and too many to count, their servers fail. Especially when a new game launches (SimCity 5, Diablo 3, etc). I'm glad you feel secure in trusting MS because I sure wouldn't be after the year we've been having.
2) This is all based on assumptions. As we've seen when publishers get solo control over their games, the prices tend to inflate. (EA's Origin is the perfect example. Full control over their games and they cost way more on Origin over a longer period of time than anywhere else).
We've only just recently seen some sales and more competitive pricing on the Xbox live marketplace. For YEARS their prices have been stagnant and ridiculous. Games you can get at Target for ten bucks sat for years at 40 or 50 bucks for no apparent reason. I hope the trend of sales and special offers continues but with the kinds of concessions we're seeing now to big publishers I don't think it looks like its happening.
Many of us complaining may end up buying one anyway, I'm including myself. BUT I won't be rushing out to get one. I was in the first wave of 360s back in 2005, and I have been through FOUR X-Boxes in that time due to three RROD and a disc drive failure. They botched the hardware on the 360, and they charged me for the repairs, until they got all that bad press of course. Meanwhile, I have a PS1 from 1996 that still works to this day, and I played the hell out of it.
I love my 360, love the games, nut I'm in no rush. If something I hear blows me away, I may budge.
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 07, 2013, 03:26:55 PM
1) I've had weeks where the Internet shuts down for days. I live in Eugene, OR, one of the supposed technologically advanced cities in the state of Oregon. The Xbox One wouldn't work because of the Internet Provider's incompetence. (Which happens to be Comcast. One of the worst and yet most dominate ISPs in the USA.) And I'm in a best-case scenario. My hometown has some of the worst ISP practices thanks to a monopoly going on there. Internet can be slow/flaky/down for days or weeks on end. At least with my PC, I can still play a good chunk of my games even if the ISP suddenly decides to cut out. And I'm in a best-case scenario. I know too many people that have poor to non-existent internet where they live.
Also, you're placing a ton of trust in Microsoft that their servers will stay up and running for the next X amount of years and will never falter at any time you want to play games. As we've seen with many companies in the past year: Blizzard, EA, CCP and too many to count, their servers fail. Especially when a new game launches (SimCity 5, Diablo 3, etc). I'm glad you feel secure in trusting MS because I sure wouldn't be after the year we've been having.
2) This is all based on assumptions. As we've seen when publishers get solo control over their games, the prices tend to inflate. (EA's Origin is the perfect example. Full control over their games and they cost way more on Origin over a longer period of time than anywhere else).
I hear what you're saying but all that means is that the XBOX One isn't for you. The entire platform is built for the internet connectivity, online downloads, and online features. If you don't have a stable internet, this isn't a product for you. Not every product is going to be made for every consumer.
Quote from: ChrisMC on June 07, 2013, 04:35:30 PM
Many of us complaining may end up buying one anyway, I'm including myself. BUT I won't be rushing out to get one. I was in the first wave of 360s back in 2005, and I have been through FOUR X-Boxes in that time due to three RROD and a disc drive failure. They botched the hardware on the 360, and they charged me for the repairs, until they got all that bad press of course. Meanwhile, I have a PS1 from 1996 that still works to this day, and I played the hell out of it.
I love my 360, love the games, nut I'm in no rush. If something I hear blows me away, I may budge.
Yep I was in line on launch day at Walmart, left at midnight with a 360, Condemned, and Kameo. Also on my fourth or fifth console as well, I honestly lost count. I'm pretty sure I'll be picking up one of the two at launch and also pretty sure it won't be a Xbone, unless maybe if it launches first lol.
I've bought 5 xbox 360's so far. None of them have failed me except the dvd drive of my launch 360 and I simply replaced the drive a few years ago. I would have only bought 3, but I moved my daughter's and my xbox to the slim model and my wife still has the old model.
I haven't had any problem at all with my Xbox and only a small percentage of the people I know have had failures and that was after years of use.
Like I said before, I'm in for the One because it has the stuff that I want for my next system.
I'm also a realist. So what if Kinect is always on? I mean sure someone could in theory hack it to see what you are doing, but they can do that to the laptops and phones that I have and I haven't given them up either.
I've had the opposite experience Chris, everyone I know that gamed on the original 360, before the slim with the falcon motherboard came out, red ringed. My launch 360 red ringed after three or four months, was replaced under warranty, then the replacement red ringed days after the warranty expired, so I then paid over $100 for Microsoft to send me another refurbished 360 that failed a few months later. I trashed that one and after a few months hiatus bought another (which almost caused a divorce when my wife found out). That one started the pre-red ring behavior (stuttering, freezing, and sometimes refusing to read discs) which being the expert I now am on RROD I immediately recognized, so I took it to GameStop before it broke and traded it in for a Slim model which I still have and works great. Totally absurd, but shows what an addict I am and how much I love the 360 in spite of its obvious flaws.
Quote from: X on June 07, 2013, 09:06:42 PM
I'm also a realist. So what if Kinect is always on? I mean sure someone could in theory hack it to see what you are doing, but they can do that to the laptops and phones that I have and I haven't given them up either.
Well, with this Prism and NSA stuff...... :p
I'm only on my second 360 which I bought off a co-worker for 50 bucks when mine RROD'd. Still have my dead one in the closet.
I think all this heralds changes in the way were going to consume all media, not just videogames. As digital becomes the standard, and physical media goes the way of the dodo, so will our ability to truly have control over what we own, how we acquire things, and what we do with them when we're done with them. I do have concerns, I think rightly so, when corporations make decisions that affect sweeping changes to the the way things are done that only benefit themselves and their select partners to the detriment of the consumer.
http://sbn.to/11Syxxu (http://sbn.to/11Syxxu)
Looks like Sony will be winning the gamers over. PS4 is $100 less than the Xbox One, no used-game restrictions, no online DRM and a focus on games and great gaming, not live TV features. What Microsoft should have done. But I guess time will tell who's strategy wins in a few years.
Yeah I was thrilled to see Sony say exactly what everyone wanted to hear, even down to the price of the system. If you look at it like a competition, Sony wins by maintaining the status quo. If it ain't broke don't try to fix it. They did kind of slip the news in that online multiplayer access for games is shifting to the PS Plus pay wall now, but that was pretty much expected. The PS + is a great service anyway, instant game collection is an amazing value.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 10, 2013, 08:28:56 PM
Yeah I was thrilled to see Sony say exactly what everyone wanted to hear, even down to the price of the system. If you look at it like a competition, Sony wins by maintaining the status quo. If it ain't broke don't try to fix it. They did kind of slip the news in that online multiplayer access for games is shifting to the PS Plus pay wall now, but that was pretty much expected. The PS + is a great service anyway, instant game collection is an amazing value.
Yeah, pity, just heard that too. But at the end of the day, that's people's choice to get PS+.
It was also people's choice to get Xbox Live. Even with that all said, I'm still getting an Xbox One because they have added family sharing. Instead of buying two of the same titles For my wife and my consoles, I only need one. My expenses are already cut in half.
I'm in no rush to get a console this generation, but if/when I do I'm leaning towards a PS4. Looks like I'm settling into an alternating pattern. PS2 -> 360 -> PS4
Quote from: X on June 11, 2013, 05:24:58 AM
It was also people's choice to get Xbox Live. Even with that all said, I'm still getting an Xbox One because they have added family sharing. Instead of buying two of the same titles For my wife and my consoles, I only need one. My expenses are already cut in half.
How many titles have you bought multiple copies of in the past? I guess if you're doing that often, family sharing is a pretty good additional feature. I wouldn't guess the majority of families have multiple Xboxes in their household (unless you count broken red-ringed ones) but if you do it's a neat idea. I would like to know more about how sharing works...she'll have access to your game list through her own account on her own console, or she has to be logged in to your account, or she can be on her account but has to be on your xbone? I assume it's all tied to your home network, otherwise how would they prevent you giving your friends access to your entire shared games list? I can see this being pretty great for college kids and twenty-somethings, sharing a house with multiple consoles and having access to everyones personal games library, very cool if it works that way.
I'm super excited for the game Quantic Dream announced, the Dark Sorcerer. These are the guys that made the game Indigo Prophecy (Fahrenheit in the UK/Europe), the amazing Heavy Rain for PS3, and the upcoming Beyond: Two Souls. This developer makes just awesome, innovative games, and even though there wasn't much shown, this might be the PS4 game I'm most excited about right now.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 11, 2013, 06:39:57 AM
Quote from: X on June 11, 2013, 05:24:58 AM
It was also people's choice to get Xbox Live. Even with that all said, I'm still getting an Xbox One because they have added family sharing. Instead of buying two of the same titles For my wife and my consoles, I only need one. My expenses are already cut in half.
How many titles have you bought multiple copies of in the past? I guess if you're doing that often, family sharing is a pretty good additional feature. I wouldn't guess the majority of families have multiple Xboxes in their household (unless you count broken red-ringed ones) but if you do it's a neat idea. I would like to know more about how sharing works...she'll have access to your game list through her own account on her own console, or she has to be logged in to your account, or she can be on her account but has to be on your xbone? I assume it's all tied to your home network, otherwise how would they prevent you giving your friends access to your entire shared games list? I can see this being pretty great for college kids and twenty-somethings, sharing a house with multiple consoles and having access to everyones personal games library, very cool if it works that way.
I buy about 10 double titles every year. I'm not sure how sharing works exactly yet, but I think that it might have to do with profiles on your main system.
As for multiple xbox, almost every family on my friends list has multiple xboxs to avoid sharing screens for the first person shooters. I only have about two friends on my list that have multiple users and only one xbox.
In my house, everyone has their own xbox because I don't like sharing and we use them as media centers.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 11, 2013, 09:08:07 AM
I'm super excited for the game Quantic Dream announced, the Dark Sorcerer. These are the guys that made the game Indigo Prophecy (Fahrenheit in the UK/Europe), the amazing Heavy Rain for PS3, and the upcoming Beyond: Two Souls. This developer makes just awesome, innovative games, and even though there wasn't much shown, this might be the PS4 game I'm most excited about right now.
The game I'm really looking forward to is Destiny, preordered that along with my PS4. Feeling very anxious, haven't had a PlayStation since the PS1! I still have it and it still works.
I must've missed it if they mentioned it, will the PS4 be backwards compatible?
no, it won't
Quote from: billybob476 on June 11, 2013, 04:18:31 PM
I must've missed it if they mentioned it, will the PS4 be backwards compatible?
they've said they'll be offering PS3 games through their streaming service Galkai but no details yet. Backwards compatibility is only important during the first year or two after launch and Galkai won't be up and running until sometime in 2014.
Quote from: ChrisMC on June 11, 2013, 04:02:47 PM
The game I'm really looking forward to is Destiny, preordered that along with my PS4. Feeling very anxious, haven't had a PlayStation since the PS1! I still have it and it still works.
Wow you never had a PS2? You missed some amazing, amazing gaming Chris I'm shocked.
I have never been a console gamer (only played now and again at friends' houses) but I've followed the recent news in this area with interest given how it is related to larger trends in software consumption.
As I see it, the 24 hour phone home requirement of the Xbox One has, in a best case scenario, zero benefit to the consumer.
In a typical case, it's an artificially created vulnerability waiting to screw you over. ANY failure in the network pipe has the potential to render your gaming system unplayable for basically no reason. The XBox One could do everything promised without having to phone home regularly. The ONLY reason for the check-in is a power grab.
With software consumption marching steadily towards digital-only models, a certain level of restriction is to be expected, but there's much more reasonable models out there.
Steam has an offline mode. You need net access in order to engage it, but if you know you're going to want to play your games somewhere without internet, you know you can.
Apple's system of app approval & sales is locked firmly into buying only from the mothership, but once your apps are downloaded into your iOS device, they work regardless if you're bathed in wifi or sealed in a Faraday cage at the bottom of the ocean.
Steam and Apple and are doing very well with these models and while Steam does still get some blowback for the offline option needing to be manually activated, at least it exists, showing that the company acknowledges the need.
Why be unreasonable when it's perfectly good business to be reasonable?
Quote from: Leighgion on June 12, 2013, 12:38:12 AM
I have never been a console gamer (only played now and again at friends' houses) but I've followed the recent news in this area with interest given how it is related to larger trends in software consumption.
As I see it, the 24 hour phone home requirement of the Xbox One has, in a best case scenario, zero benefit to the consumer.
In a typical case, it's an artificially created vulnerability waiting to screw you over. ANY failure in the network pipe has the potential to render your gaming system unplayable for basically no reason. The XBox One could do everything promised without having to phone home regularly. The ONLY reason for the check-in is a power grab.
With software consumption marching steadily towards digital-only models, a certain level of restriction is to be expected, but there's much more reasonable models out there.
Steam has an offline mode. You need net access in order to engage it, but if you know you're going to want to play your games somewhere without internet, you know you can.
Apple's system of app approval & sales is locked firmly into buying only from the mothership, but once your apps are downloaded into your iOS device, they work regardless if you're bathed in wifi or sealed in a Faraday cage at the bottom of the ocean.
Steam and Apple and are doing very well with these models and while Steam does still get some blowback for the offline option needing to be manually activated, at least it exists, showing that the company acknowledges the need.
Why be unreasonable when it's perfectly good business to be reasonable?
Well said. It's a strange anti-consumer stance that will cost them market share, I'm sure of it.
Joby, I had a GameCube and an XBox back then, and I felt having a third console would seem piggish, lol. I played many PS2 games, my brother had one and brought it over quite a bit to game with me.
Quote from: ChrisMC on June 12, 2013, 03:19:45 AM
Quote from: Leighgion on June 12, 2013, 12:38:12 AM
I have never been a console gamer (only played now and again at friends' houses) but I've followed the recent news in this area with interest given how it is related to larger trends in software consumption.
As I see it, the 24 hour phone home requirement of the Xbox One has, in a best case scenario, zero benefit to the consumer.
In a typical case, it's an artificially created vulnerability waiting to screw you over. ANY failure in the network pipe has the potential to render your gaming system unplayable for basically no reason. The XBox One could do everything promised without having to phone home regularly. The ONLY reason for the check-in is a power grab.
With software consumption marching steadily towards digital-only models, a certain level of restriction is to be expected, but there's much more reasonable models out there.
Steam has an offline mode. You need net access in order to engage it, but if you know you're going to want to play your games somewhere without internet, you know you can.
Apple's system of app approval & sales is locked firmly into buying only from the mothership, but once your apps are downloaded into your iOS device, they work regardless if you're bathed in wifi or sealed in a Faraday cage at the bottom of the ocean.
Steam and Apple and are doing very well with these models and while Steam does still get some blowback for the offline option needing to be manually activated, at least it exists, showing that the company acknowledges the need.
Why be unreasonable when it's perfectly good business to be reasonable?
Well said. It's a strange anti-consumer stance that will cost them market share, I'm sure of it.
Joby, I had a GameCube and an XBox back then, and I felt having a third console would seem piggish, lol. I played many PS2 games, my brother had one and brought it over quite a bit to game with me.
While you make good points, I'm thinking of the benefits of it. If all things are equal and this is what the developers want, I'm pretty much expecting XBOX One games to be far cheaper than PS4 games out the gate. Since we haven't heard pricing of games yet, I'm betting that this will be where the rubber meets the road. If the One can offer cheaper games because of the DRM, I'm cool with the DRM. And if PC vs console pricing is any indicator, this might just be the case.
I'd fall over from shock if the new games are at all cheaper let alone far cheaper on the XBone. I wouldn't hold my breath but it's a nice idea. I imagine Microsoft is looking for something, anything, that might sway some of the goodwill of gamers back towards their new device, so that could be a way to do it, but it would require the cooperation of the third parties and the potential of a huge loss of revenue for their partners, so I just wouldn't count on that. Sony said yesterday that third party publishers can decide if they want to implement some type of DRM within their games if they so choose, which is a little different message than they presented on Monday, but it makes sense in that they are basically not dictating to publishers what they can and can't do with the games they bring to the PS4.
Some new details about "family sharing" on the XBone:
"Since its announcement, there has been some confusion over the details of sharing your Xbox One game library with up to ten "family members." Mehdi couldn't give comprehensive details but he did clarify some things.
For one, a family member doesn't have to be a "blood relative," he said, eliminating the extremely unlikely possibility that the Xbox One would include a built-in blood testing kit. For another, they don't have to live in the primary owner's house—I could name a friend that lives 3,000 miles away as one of my "family members" Mehdi said.
You'll be able to link other Xbox Live accounts as having shared access to your library when you first set up a system, and will also be able to add them later on (though specific details of how you manage these relationships is still not being discussed). The only limitation, it seems, is that only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time. All in all, this does sound like a pretty convenient feature that's more workable than simply passing discs around amongst friends who are actually in your area"
This could be an amazing, groundbreaking feature if implemented the way it seems they're talking about it now.
Personally when these new gaming consoles come out I think I'm gonna get myself a 360 (finally). I've been very behind for many years on gaming, been busy with college and being a poor college student. I've always been a few generations behind on consoles anyway, and I don't see the point in changing that for the time being when there are so many awesome 360 games I really want to play now that I have a little more time to do so, and can get for so much cheaper with the X-Box One coming out.
Eventually maybe I'll catch up with the times and get a current gaming platform, but I'm thinking I'm gonna be a pretty happy gamer for a while with some awesome classics.
Quote from: ElfManDan on June 12, 2013, 08:24:53 AM
Personally when these new gaming consoles come out I think I'm gonna get myself a 360 (finally). I've been very behind for many years on gaming, been busy with college and being a poor college student. I've always been a few generations behind on consoles anyway, and I don't see the point in changing that for the time being when there are so many awesome 360 games I really want to play now that I have a little more time to do so, and can get for so much cheaper with the X-Box One coming out.
Eventually maybe I'll catch up with the times and get a current gaming platform, but I'm thinking I'm gonna be a pretty happy gamer for a while with some awesome classics.
There's an amazing amount of fantastic gaming in store for you...I think I saw that over 1000 games have been released for the 360 over its lifecycle. Wait a little while after the holiday season and you can probably pick up a 360 for $99-$150
I'm a little late to this thread, but I'd like to present my perspective as a gamer for 30+ years.
I've owned virtually every console ever released (yes, even the Neo*Geo), and I've always been a platform agnostic person.
However, I'm also very pro-consumer, and what I saw at E3 coming from Microsoft is somewhat disturbing. Even more disturbing to me is how easily so many people are accepting this anti-consumer stance. Have a look at this blog post, it summarizes the argument much better than I probably could.
LINK (http://kotaku.com/video-game-companies-arent-letting-us-do-anything-511789152?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow)
Sure, most people have stable broadband. Many don't even trade in or buy used games. These things seem pretty trivial to some on the surface, but the truth is, Microsoft is caving to publishers who want to control how and when you play their games. They are not only caving, they are hand delivering a hardware platform that is built to maximize publisher's ability to control what you do. Publisher greed is influencing the design of consoles, plain and simple.
What other industry do you know of that gets to double dip on sales? I can't think of one. If I buy a Batman Bluray for $30, it's mine. I can do whatever I want with it. I can sell it at a garage sale, a pawn shop, craigslist, or ebay. Warner Brothers doesn't say "Whoah, stop right there. We're going to need a cut of that. If you buy this Bluray used, you're going to need a $10 unlock pass to watch it." That's ludicrous.
Personally, I find this intolerable. I refuse to support any company that treats their consumers this way. Thankfully, Sony has heard the public, and is providing a next gen console that won't have these restrictions. If they had followed Microsoft's lead, I would not be purchasing their platform either.
Isn't it a little sad when all you need to do to "win" E3 is give us things we currently have? I think it is.
Both consoles are virtually the same, hardware wise. One allows you to be in control of the games you own. The other essentially licenses them to you. To me, the choice is pretty easy. I already game a bit on the PC, but console-wise, I'm sticking with PS4 and Wii U this coming generation.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 12, 2013, 08:42:12 AM
There's an amazing amount of fantastic gaming in store for you...I think I saw that over 1000 games have been released for the 360 over its lifecycle. Wait a little while after the holiday season and you can probably pick up a 360 for $99-$150
Yeah, I've got a nice list of 360 games I've seen and really want to play. I'm positive they will keep me busy for a while.
Nice post Charlie, I agree with the majority of what you said. There seems to be a number of factors influencing the mis-steps Microsoft seems to be making with the next generation Xbox hardware. Of course it's still too early to tell, but there has certainly been a huge outcry and Sony has been able to reap the benefits so far by just keeping things the same as they've always been. They were even able to eliminate the potential negative reaction to their news of putting most multiplayer functionality behind a paywall due to the perception that they're putting the gamers above all else with their new console. That was a gift Microsoft handed them on a silver platter.
I'm not as negative as some on the XBone, I will probably get one, though it does concern me that through purchase of their console, it shows tacit approval of the direction they wish to take in the future of console gaming...not all of which I agree with. Sony's policies allow me to breathe a sigh of relief, that the potential for a few huge companies exerting iron fisted control over the hobby I love so dearly, is not necessarily happening in at least the near future.
We've got a 360 but that may be the first and last that we own.
I live on the second hand games market. If that goes away the. I won't buy games...or at least not at a rate to make console ownership worthwhile. Heck, even second hand I'm still playing the games I got when we got the console.
Pretty funny article at Cracked about what companies get wrong about gamers:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-every-game-company-gets-wrong-about-gamers/ (http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-every-game-company-gets-wrong-about-gamers/)
Quote from: ChrisMC on June 13, 2013, 04:16:51 PM
Pretty funny article at Cracked about what companies get wrong about gamers:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-every-game-company-gets-wrong-about-gamers/ (http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-every-game-company-gets-wrong-about-gamers/)
Really starting to tick me off that Microsoft is continuing to lie about its products like Sega did with Aliens: CM.
Paul Thurrott of Windows Weekly/WinSuperSite/WindowsITPro tweeted this. It was posted by a supposed XBox One engineer over at pastebin. Reposted before it's taken down.
note there's a few mild curses in the text.
Quote
>The thing is we suck at telling the story. The whole point of the DRM switch from disc based to cloud based is to kill disc swapping, scratched discs, bringing discs to friends house, trade-ins for shit value with nothign going back to developers, and high game costs. If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow. Steam's model requires a limited used game model.
>The thing is, the DRM is really really similar to steam... You can login anywhere and play your games, anyone in your house can play with the family xbox. The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)
>It's a long tail strategy, just like steam. Steam had it's growing pains at the beginning with all it's drm shit as well. [...] For digital downloads steam had no real competition at the time, they were competing against boxed sales. At the time people were pretty irate about steam, (on 4chan too...) It was only once they had a digital marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted shit.
>Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.
>Competition is the best man, it helps drive both to new heights. See technology from the Cold War. If we had no USSR, we'd be way worse off today. TLDR: Bring it on Steam :)
2/4
>Yeah we passed that around the office at Xbox. Most of us were like "Well played Sony, Well played". That being said they are just riding the hype train of ZOMG THEY ARE TRYING TO frak US FOR NO REASON. Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back... [...] just simpleminded people not seeing the bigger picture. Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded.
>Everyone and their mother complains about how gamestop fraks them on their trade ins, getting 5$ for their used games. We come in trying to find a way to take money out of gamestop, and put some in developers and get you possibly cheaper games and everyone bitches at MS. Well, if you want the @#$@ing from Gamestop, go play PS4.
>The goal is to move to digital downloads, but Gamestop, Walmart, Target, Amazon are KIND OF frakING ENTRENCHED in the industry. They have a lot of power, and the shift has to be gradual. Long term goal is steam for consoles. [...] If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We're TRYING to move the industry forwards towards digital distribution... it'sa bumpy road
>Publishers have enourmous power. Microsoft is trying to balance between consumer delight, and publisher wishes. If we cave to far in either direction you have a non-starting product. WiiU goes too far to consumer, you have no 3rd party support to shake a stick at. PS4 is status-quo. XB1 is trying to push some things, at the expense of others. We have a vision, we'll see if it works in the coming years
>Living room transformation. We want to own the living room. Every living room TV with an XBox on input one. It's the thing that gives the signal to your TV, everything is secondary. The future, where games, TV, internet telephony, all that shit happens magically on some huge ass screen with hand / voice gestures... That's our goal.
3/4
>Google TV + PS4 + Minority report level gestures, that combined with a sick second screen experience (which is really hot for TV, I know I know.. tv tv tv tv tv... but it's fraking sick when you have it). Games will be the same, there are more exclusives to MS then PS atm, and Kinect 2 makes Kinect 1 look like a childs toy.
>By default it's on, listening for "Xbox On". You can turn it off tho, and turn the console like OFF off. OFF off is required for Germany / other countries that require it (no vampire appliances) [...] It has to be plugged in for the console to post. You can turn off everything it does from the settings. Think of it like airplane mode for the iPhone. You can't just unplug the cellular radio, but you can turn it off.
>Instead of 10mins, is 24hrs for your console, and 1 or 2 at a friends house. Really the majority of people have a speck of internet at least once a day. And if you don't. Don't buy an Xbox 1. Just like if you didn't have a broadband connection don't get Live, and if you don't have an HDTV the 360 isn't that great for you either. New tech, new req. This allows us to do cool shit when we can assume things like you have a kinect, you have internet, etc.
>Current plan is basically you're fraked after 24 hours. Yeah... I know. Kind of sucks. I believe they will probably revist the time period and / or find a diff way to "call in" to ensure you haven't sold your license to gamestop or something... but there is no plan YET. I'm hoping the change it, but I don't work on that so I don't have much influence there /sigh
>If the power goes out you ain't playing shit. I'm assuming you mean the internet goes out but you have power for TV and Xbox. Yes, You're fraked for single player games. Again, that's the PoR (Plan of record), but I expect it to change after the e3 clusterfrak
>What fee? There is no fee to play your games at your friends house. Never has, never will. Even x360 digital downloads could do that.
4/4
>The cloud capabilities is the shit they like the most. We basically made a huge cloud compute shit and made it free. What people are doing with it is kind of cool. THe original intention was to get all the Multiplayer servers not requiring 3rd party costs (Like EA shutting down game servers to cut costs), as well as taking all the games that servers hosted by the clients (Halo, etc), and have all that compute done in the cloud allowing more CPU cycles for gameplay. That will really expand what developers can do. Anything that doesn't need per frame calculation and can handle 100ms delays can be shifted to the cloud. That's huge.
>SmartGlass + IE is going to be pretty freaking sweet. 1 finger cursor, 2 finger direct manip. Basically if you think of a laptop trackpad where your phone/ slate is the trackpad and the monitor is your TV... it's that. The tech is there, just needs to be applied. There is some really cool shit going on with Petra + controllers that pairs people with controllers. So if person with controller two trades controlers with controller 1, their profiles magically switch. It's sick. What does this matter? Now if you lean left/right it knows which person is leaning, even if 4 people are all int he same room. It's awesome.
>New service using Azure for cloud compute. Allows developers to not use clients for hosting multiplayer servers, or other tasks that do not require per frame calcuations. It's pretty sweet.
>Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4.
This was all from the Microsoft engineer that was on /b/ last night.
>It's not worth my time to prove it, or risk my Job. I work in Studio A, 40th ave in Redmond, Wa. The thai place in the studio cafeteria has double punch wednesdays. Go ahead and call them and verify if you want.
http://pastebin.com/uCmdh9jB (http://pastebin.com/uCmdh9jB)
Somehow I doubt that consoles games will become cheaper if Microsoft succeed with the Xbox one for some insane reason...
Wow the arrogance in that post is a perfect example of what's hurting Microsoft the most this week. Instead of listening to what people are saying, understanding what people are feeling, and considering changes that will give people what they utimately want, this guy is clinging desperately to his vision of the future and calling anyone who disagrees with that vision simpleminded drones? Appalling.
On paper it's a nice idea to be able to go over to your friend's house and have access to all your games via your Xbox live account. But in practice I'm not sure it works. With current consoles, if you want to play a game at your friend's house, you bring the disc, pop it in their console and play. With Microsoft's proposed model, you go over, log into your account, and start downloading a 10GB-45GB file (or more if those next gen games are much bigger, another thing that hasn't been discussed is the amount of data on these discs.) Two hours later, assuming yours and Microsofts download/upload speeds are pretty good, you can play. They haven't said anything at all similar to Sony along the lines that you'll be able to play a game before it's completed downloading.
I also take issue with the statement
"Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4."
My PS3 uses Netflix way more than any other device in my home. It has many of the video apps that the 360 has, a music service, a video library...It acts as a media center for music, video, and photos streamed over my network from my computer to my TV. If he's talking about Kinect functionality here combined with Smartglass, well...both have been out for a while now and I haven't seen anything for either program that made me prefer the experience over traditional methods of control. Maybe they have some great ideas for the future of Kinect but I haven't seen any sign of it yet.
Honestly I sense fear here. I have to wonder if they're suddenly terrified of being in a situation like the WiiU is right now, where very few people have bought the hardware so publishers aren't interested in spending millions of dollars to provide software for the platform...which essentially ends their game before it gets a change to even really begin.
Time will tell if this strategy works for Microsoft. If I see identical AAA titles launching at $40 on XBone and $60 on PS4, as this guy suggests might "possibly" happen, then after my heart attack from shock I will definitely buy the XBone version, DRM or no. I might even write Microsoft a letter of apology for doubting them.
In a way I understand his reaction, he's an engineer/developer who's been pouring his heart and soul into this thing for who knows how many years. It comes out, people react negatively towards it. God knows I've reacted defensively at times when I hear negative reactions to something I've worked on. I just don't go post it online for all to read.
He's not right, but I can understand the reaction and tone. To the person on the inside, it's so obvious. The hard thing to understand is why "outsiders" don't get it.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 14, 2013, 12:13:20 PM
Wow the arrogance in that post is a perfect example of what's hurting Microsoft the most this week. Instead of listening to what people are saying, understanding what people are feeling, and considering changes that will give people what they utimately want, this guy is clinging desperately to his vision of the future and calling anyone who disagrees with that vision simpleminded drones? Appalling.
On paper it's a nice idea to be able to go over to your friend's house and have access to all your games via your Xbox live account. But in practice I'm not sure it works. With current consoles, if you want to play a game at your friend's house, you bring the disc, pop it in their console and play. With Microsoft's proposed model, you go over, log into your account, and start downloading a 10GB-45GB file (or more if those next gen games are much bigger, another thing that hasn't been discussed is the amount of data on these discs.) Two hours later, assuming yours and Microsofts download/upload speeds are pretty good, you can play. They haven't said anything at all similar to Sony along the lines that you'll be able to play a game before it's completed downloading.
I also take issue with the statement
"Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4."
My PS3 uses Netflix way more than any other device in my home. It has many of the video apps that the 360 has, a music service, a video library...It acts as a media center for music, video, and photos streamed over my network from my computer to my TV. If he's talking about Kinect functionality here combined with Smartglass, well...both have been out for a while now and I haven't seen anything for either program that made me prefer the experience over traditional methods of control. Maybe they have some great ideas for the future of Kinect but I haven't seen any sign of it yet.
Honestly I sense fear here. I have to wonder if they're suddenly terrified of being in a situation like the WiiU is right now, where very few people have bought the hardware so publishers aren't interested in spending millions of dollars to provide software for the platform...which essentially ends their game before it gets a change to even really begin.
Time will tell if this strategy works for Microsoft. If I see identical AAA titles launching at $40 on XBone and $60 on PS4, as this guy suggests might "possibly" happen, then after my heart attack from shock I will definitely buy the XBone version, DRM or no. I might even write Microsoft a letter of apology for doubting them.
They are listening to the people on this. I am 100% onboard for it. I totally like what he had to say and I respect his efforts.
I think you also missed the part released far earlier where you can start playing the game while it downloads.
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-lets-you-play-immediately-during-installs-suspend-an/ (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-lets-you-play-immediately-during-installs-suspend-an/)
I'm not seeing anything wrong with their model and I actually support it. Hell, it even confirmed what I theorized on this thread about lower costs because you don't have to bump up the price to make up from the losses on the used games side.
It's also funny because Sony is going to also have DRM, they are just leaving it to the publishers.
At the end of the day, I will always take Microsoft over the publisher.
That all holds true, if we see savings because of the model.
http://kotaku.com/microsoft-to-sell-next-gen-games-for-60-price-of-gami-513489951 (http://kotaku.com/microsoft-to-sell-next-gen-games-for-60-price-of-gami-513489951)
Quote from: X on June 14, 2013, 04:10:54 PM
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 14, 2013, 12:13:20 PM
Wow the arrogance in that post is a perfect example of what's hurting Microsoft the most this week. Instead of listening to what people are saying, understanding what people are feeling, and considering changes that will give people what they utimately want, this guy is clinging desperately to his vision of the future and calling anyone who disagrees with that vision simpleminded drones? Appalling.
On paper it's a nice idea to be able to go over to your friend's house and have access to all your games via your Xbox live account. But in practice I'm not sure it works. With current consoles, if you want to play a game at your friend's house, you bring the disc, pop it in their console and play. With Microsoft's proposed model, you go over, log into your account, and start downloading a 10GB-45GB file (or more if those next gen games are much bigger, another thing that hasn't been discussed is the amount of data on these discs.) Two hours later, assuming yours and Microsofts download/upload speeds are pretty good, you can play. They haven't said anything at all similar to Sony along the lines that you'll be able to play a game before it's completed downloading.
I also take issue with the statement
"Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4."
My PS3 uses Netflix way more than any other device in my home. It has many of the video apps that the 360 has, a music service, a video library...It acts as a media center for music, video, and photos streamed over my network from my computer to my TV. If he's talking about Kinect functionality here combined with Smartglass, well...both have been out for a while now and I haven't seen anything for either program that made me prefer the experience over traditional methods of control. Maybe they have some great ideas for the future of Kinect but I haven't seen any sign of it yet.
Honestly I sense fear here. I have to wonder if they're suddenly terrified of being in a situation like the WiiU is right now, where very few people have bought the hardware so publishers aren't interested in spending millions of dollars to provide software for the platform...which essentially ends their game before it gets a change to even really begin.
Time will tell if this strategy works for Microsoft. If I see identical AAA titles launching at $40 on XBone and $60 on PS4, as this guy suggests might "possibly" happen, then after my heart attack from shock I will definitely buy the XBone version, DRM or no. I might even write Microsoft a letter of apology for doubting them.
They are listening to the people on this. I am 100% onboard for it. I totally like what he had to say and I respect his efforts.
I think you also missed the part released far earlier where you can start playing the game while it downloads.
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-lets-you-play-immediately-during-installs-suspend-an/ (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-lets-you-play-immediately-during-installs-suspend-an/)
I'm not seeing anything wrong with their model and I actually support it. Hell, it even confirmed what I theorized on this thread about lower costs because you don't have to bump up the price to make up from the losses on the used games side.
It's also funny because Sony is going to also have DRM, they are just leaving it to the publishers.
At the end of the day, I will always take Microsoft over the publisher.
Besides you, I have not heard of anyone actually support Microsoft's business model. Judging from Google+ and FB feeds of mine and such, people are avoiding it and going to the PS4. Or building a new PC. Either way, it's been a very resounding: NO from gamers.
King, not to point out the obvious, but we all tend to surround ourselves with people with similar outlooks. Given your dislike for most things DRM, I'd expect your friends to share a similar if not the same view. My friends are all for the new Xbox and looks like the world isn't worried either.
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/xbox-one-pre-orders-set-sales-record-blockbuster-56154.html (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/xbox-one-pre-orders-set-sales-record-blockbuster-56154.html)
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/xbox-one-pre-order-stock-sold-out-at-certain-retailers (http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/xbox-one-pre-order-stock-sold-out-at-certain-retailers)
http://www.product-reviews.net/2013/05/30/xbox-one-vs-ps4-pre-orders-so-far-in-uk/ (http://www.product-reviews.net/2013/05/30/xbox-one-vs-ps4-pre-orders-so-far-in-uk/)
PS4 VS Xbox One PreOrders - -E3 News (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EvpLJJXIQI#ws)
I guess the people on yours lists are just the vocal minority. Hell, my kid works at Gamestop and they are almost sold out.
Your resounding NO from gamers is starting to sound more and more like some loud kid in the theater that only interrupting the movie for everyone else.
Here is something you also missed in the hype ... Xbox One and PS4 have pretty much the same policies on DRM. On all Xbox first party titles, you can still freely sale the copy to an authorized retailer with no restrictions.
As for sony:
http://www.gamezone.com/news/2013/06/11/third-party-publishers-can-push-drm-on-the-ps4 (http://www.gamezone.com/news/2013/06/11/third-party-publishers-can-push-drm-on-the-ps4)
Which is pretty much identical to the Xbox policy ... except you can give people discs with Sony and with MS, all my 10 closest friends and family need to do is log in and start playing a game I have.
More sont DRM stuff:
http://gamerfront.net/2013/06/ps4-will-allow-used-game-drm-on-third-party-titles/28924 (http://gamerfront.net/2013/06/ps4-will-allow-used-game-drm-on-third-party-titles/28924)
Well as I said before it all remains to be seen. Launch is still five or six months away and a lot of information is still being parceled out. I think I understand the major differences here in the viewpoints being expressed about these new consoles. I don't have three or four thousand dollars a year to spend on video games and consoles. My wife and I both work full time in human services, not making a ton of money, ive got four kids, so our discretionary funds are extremely tight. Game rentals and the used games market allows me to maximize the number of different experiences I can have with my hobby. Restricting these is a direct assault on my personal ability to play as many games as I might be able to otherwise, and it makes me mad.
Quote from: X on June 14, 2013, 08:26:41 PM
King, not to point out the obvious, but we all tend to surround ourselves with people with similar outlooks. Given your dislike for most things DRM, I'd expect your friends to share a similar if not the same view. My friends are all for the new Xbox and looks like the world isn't worried either.
Not to point out the obvious, but most people that are my friends do not share my views. Especially anyone on Facebook, they tend to not care when it comes to DRM issues or other really bad company policies. To say that I am a lone voice when it comes to my social media experience is an understatement. I have two friends that share my views. The rest do not. That gives me a pretty wide range of views from people I know. From casual to hardcore. I still stand by my statement that it's been a resounding no. As far as the pre-orders go, well, not entirely unsurprising. It's not like it's terrible technology and there are plenty of people who don't care. Which yes, that frustrates me just as much as the general opinion of Into Darkness frustrates me, but I try not to let it bother me.
I also think that most people don't realize the DRM and online implications that go with the Xbox One. Once they realize/have problems with the initial launch, (which they most likely will if past history is to repeat itself again), I expect the return rate to spike after launch. Just like it did with many games in the past including Diablo 3, SimCity 5 and more.
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 14, 2013, 10:32:47 PM
I also think that most people don't realize the DRM and online implications that go with the Xbox One. Once they realize/have problems with the initial launch, (which they most likely will if past history is to repeat itself again), I expect the return rate to spike after launch. Just like it did with many games in the past including Diablo 3, SimCity 5 and more.
I think that most people don't care about DRM. If the game works, then they won't have a problem. If parents can get by with only having to buy one copy for multiple devices, they will see that as a win.
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 14, 2013, 10:32:47 PM
Which yes, that frustrates me just as much as the general opinion of Into Darkness frustrates me, but I try not to let it bother me.
It shouldn't frustrate you, sometimes it's best to just to acknowledge you're wrong and move on. :)
Ha, yeah....It's a silly thing to get frustrated about, like getting ticked about critical reviews of Man Of Steel...oh, wait....
Woohoo, I just got word I got a Launch PS4 from Amazon and I'll have it on my doorstep on the day it's released. Now, to go preorder some games! I've made my choice, this IS a FUN endeavor, right guys?? So I guess the manhood measuring between system backers will continue until there is a "victor", but in the end, it's silly. I will most likely own an XBOX 1, and so will most of the people pissing and moaning about it.
If you guys are sports fans you must be RABID. I sure am. I hate the Cowboys with the passion of a thousand suns.
Do you play fantasy football Chris?
No, I don't. I really can't root against my own team in any way. If it's possible to play without that happening I guess I would. It seems like D & D for sports geeks.
If you play fantasy football on nfl.com the Xbox has some cool integration with your players stats, live updates, recording clips of your players scores and stuff, pretty niche but neat.
Quote from: ChrisMC on June 15, 2013, 03:08:53 PM
Ha, yeah....It's a silly thing to get frustrated about, like getting ticked about critical reviews of Man Of Steel...oh, wait....
Woohoo, I just got word I got a Launch PS4 from Amazon and I'll have it on my doorstep on the day it's released. Now, to go preorder some games! I've made my choice, this IS a FUN endeavor, right guys?? So I guess the manhood measuring between system backers will continue until there is a "victor", but in the end, it's silly. I will most likely own an XBOX 1, and so will most of the people pissing and moaning about it.
If you guys are sports fans you must be RABID. I sure am. I hate the Cowboys with the passion of a thousand suns.
Not a sports fan and not a console gamer either. I don't have a stake in whichever way people decide to go with console gaming. If nothing else, it's about dang time that consoles caught up to PCs or at least tried. They now match a current low to medium-range PC gaming rig specs. PC gaming looks to be cheaper than console gaming now...especially when you add in the online services that are attached to consoles. But I digress.
Quote from: X on June 15, 2013, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 14, 2013, 10:32:47 PM
I also think that most people don't realize the DRM and online implications that go with the Xbox One. Once they realize/have problems with the initial launch, (which they most likely will if past history is to repeat itself again), I expect the return rate to spike after launch. Just like it did with many games in the past including Diablo 3, SimCity 5 and more.
I think that most people don't care about DRM. If the game works, then they won't have a problem. If parents can get by with only having to buy one copy for multiple devices, they will see that as a win.
People will start caring about DRM when they suddenly find out that their internet isn't good enough to run the Xbox One and/or they don't have an internet connection to begin with. Or when MSFT's servers start crashing due to the strain of all the connections. Or when servers go offline for maintenance/repairs. As I said, I expect the return rates of the Xbox One to start spiking when it gets first released. It's happened before and it'll happen again unless Microsoft surprises me and nothing wrong happens on Week 1. Which hey, I'd like to be surprised in this case. Getting tired of predicting these launches. But I'm not going to hold my breath as we've seen the biggest companies in the gaming scene try and launch DRM-laden games and have nothing but server problems for weeks.
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 15, 2013, 07:41:09 PM
Quote from: ChrisMC on June 15, 2013, 03:08:53 PM
Ha, yeah....It's a silly thing to get frustrated about, like getting ticked about critical reviews of Man Of Steel...oh, wait....
Woohoo, I just got word I got a Launch PS4 from Amazon and I'll have it on my doorstep on the day it's released. Now, to go preorder some games! I've made my choice, this IS a FUN endeavor, right guys?? So I guess the manhood measuring between system backers will continue until there is a "victor", but in the end, it's silly. I will most likely own an XBOX 1, and so will most of the people pissing and moaning about it.
If you guys are sports fans you must be RABID. I sure am. I hate the Cowboys with the passion of a thousand suns.
Not a sports fan and not a console gamer either. I don't have a stake in whichever way people decide to go with console gaming. If nothing else, it's about dang time that consoles caught up to PCs or at least tried. They now match a current low to medium-range PC gaming rig specs. PC gaming looks to be cheaper than console gaming now...especially when you add in the online services that are attached to consoles. But I digress.
Quote from: X on June 15, 2013, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 14, 2013, 10:32:47 PM
I also think that most people don't realize the DRM and online implications that go with the Xbox One. Once they realize/have problems with the initial launch, (which they most likely will if past history is to repeat itself again), I expect the return rate to spike after launch. Just like it did with many games in the past including Diablo 3, SimCity 5 and more.
I think that most people don't care about DRM. If the game works, then they won't have a problem. If parents can get by with only having to buy one copy for multiple devices, they will see that as a win.
People will start caring about DRM when they suddenly find out that their internet isn't good enough to run the Xbox One and/or they don't have an internet connection to begin with. Or when MSFT's servers start crashing due to the strain of all the connections. Or when servers go offline for maintenance/repairs. As I said, I expect the return rates of the Xbox One to start spiking when it gets first released. It's happened before and it'll happen again unless Microsoft surprises me and nothing wrong happens on Week 1. Which hey, I'd like to be surprised in this case. Getting tired of predicting these launches. But I'm not going to hold my breath as we've seen the biggest companies in the gaming scene try and launch DRM-laden games and have nothing but server problems for weeks.
You do realize that the drm check takes a few second at best. If your connection can't connect for a few seconds every 24 hours, there is no reason that you should be paying for internet. By you, I mean the general you. This is not an always on DRM check. it's a few seconds and that's it.
Quote from: X on June 15, 2013, 01:19:34 PMI think that most people don't care about DRM. If the game works, then they won't have a problem. If parents can get by with only having to buy one copy for multiple devices, they will see that as a win.
the problem with your theory is that if you polled 100 parents who buy an Xbox for their family, maybe 5% of them have more than one of them, and probably fewer buy multiple titles of the same game for their families. Also probably fewer than five percent of them are going to even know about or understand the family sharing feature of the console when it launches. But by the same token, many families that are on a budget will likely be upset when they realize they might not be able to save money by trading games in their kids are done with to help fund new ones, or rent games at Redbox on a rainy day.
Where exactly are you pulling your numbers from? I can assure you one two really important things. 1) People on a budget are not going to be jumping to buy either system any time soon in any numbers. 2)While you might trade in your games, and you still can but it's up to the 3 party developer if they are going to charge fees, most people are not in the habit of trading in their games.
You are accurate that they won't be able to rent from rental places, but that's only one accurate things out of the bunch. Both systems will allow for trade of first party titles. Both systems will leave it to the publishers if they want to charge fees for 3rd party games.
Also, parents aren't that ignorant and just sit a toy in the front of their kids and not know a little about it. The friends and family perks will save money. The DRM features has already kept the games from rising in cost.
I am pulling my numbers from the same place I pull the majority of information that influences my world view. That place where the sun rarely shines. You can agree or disagree and it makes no difference whatsoever. I find it very difficult to believe that you really think the average consumer buys a separate Xbox for each member of their household (or even more than one) and more than one copy of games for the system. I find it very interesting that you are assuring me of things that aren't even decided yet for systems that haven't yet been released. All these policies are in flux and I highly anticipate Microsoft to make changes to their restrictions based on the highly charged reaction people have been having to their announcements.
Edit to add: also the long lines at the register every time I'm in a GameStop, the huge walls of preowned games in every store, the billions of dollars that company (and Walmart, Target, Best buy, etc) makes on the used games market, tells me you're incorrect about people's habits when it comes to trading in their used games.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 16, 2013, 06:41:12 AM
I am pulling my numbers from the same place I pull the majority of information that influences my world view. That place where the sun rarely shines. You can agree or disagree and it makes no difference whatsoever. I find it very difficult to believe that you really think the average consumer buys a separate Xbox for each member of their household (or even more than one) and more than one copy of games for the system. I find it very interesting that you are assuring me of things that aren't even decided yet for systems that haven't yet been released. All these policies are in flux and I highly anticipate Microsoft to make changes to their restrictions based on the highly charged reaction people have been having to their announcements.
Edit to add: also the long lines at the register every time I'm in a GameStop, the huge walls of preowned games in every store, the billions of dollars that company (and Walmart, Target, Best buy, etc) makes on the used games market, tells me you're incorrect about people's habits when it comes to trading in their used games.
Where did I say that the average consumer buys an Xbox for each member of their household? I said that many households have multiple Xboxes. That's a huge difference.
As for what I assured you of, the first point was common sense and has nothing to do with the pending release of any system and the second is based on simple mathematics. If a store sold over 100 copies of a game and you see less than 10 for sale used, that a small percentage of people trading in game. Also, the same people that trade said games often buy used games. From my kid's perspective, it's the same small group that does a majority of the trade ins. in his retail experience, they aren't a big chunk of the market.
edit:
My kid works at a Game Stop in a college town
Well you can believe what you want to believe, and ill believe what I want to believe. Personally I think you must be living on a different planet if you truly believe that the used games market is just a small percentage of total gamers. Regardless, Microsoft either agrees with you and has decided that they can do without the people that decide their policies are too draconian for their tastes, or perhaps they believe that people will learn to adjust to the changes they're proposing for the marketplace. I think it's a tactical mistake on their part to anger even a small percent of their customers, and it's possible that you and they are misjudging the number of people that feel strongly about the issues.
Holy Cow, the used games in my 2 local Gamestops take up most of their store. They are doing a bumper crop business selling used games, they make a crazy markup on those.
Quote from: ChrisMC on June 16, 2013, 05:45:40 PM
Holy Cow, the used games in my 2 local Gamestops take up most of their store. They are doing a bumper crop business selling used games, they make a crazy markup on those.
yeah and I don't necessarily disagree with a model that gives some of those massive profits to the developers and publishers. I've always felt that the used games market was a predatory model that targets low income people. But if I can get 60-75% off a new game by taking two or three dusty games I'm done with back to the store, I'll often do that rather than pay full price. I'd hate to see that option go away.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 16, 2013, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: ChrisMC on June 16, 2013, 05:45:40 PM
Holy Cow, the used games in my 2 local Gamestops take up most of their store. They are doing a bumper crop business selling used games, they make a crazy markup on those.
yeah and I don't necessarily disagree with a model that gives some of those massive profits to the developers and publishers. I've always felt that the used games market was a predatory model that targets low income people. But if I can get 60-75% off a new game by taking two or three dusty games I'm done with back to the store, I'll often do that rather than pay full price. I'd hate to see that option go away.
I agree with everything you said. I too would bring a pile of games in every so often and get a couple hundred for four games. It took me a while to realize how much I was being shafted and I stopped. That being said, as of today, there has been nothing to say that we can't still trade in games. As it stands, all we know for sure is that we can trade first party titles from both systems and nothing is known about the 3rd party stuff yet. I'm not suggesting that we shaft the people that live off the second hand market, but I like same day digital releases and the DRM isn't going to affect me. Sure, that's not the case for everyone, but I also know that there is also a HUGE burned game market that will be effectively killed by DRM. I'm hoping that this will result in the prices not rising for the XB1 in third party titles.
Powerful reactions from active duty members of the armed forces on the XBone restrictive DRM and online functionality:
http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030 (http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030)
Quote
"New Xbox 'a sin against all service members'"
Navy Lt. Scott Metcalf was eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new Xbox One. Now he's not even sure if he'll buy one.
Indeed, for many in the military, the next-gen Xbox console may offer more endemic frustration than grand epic gaming, particularly for those deployed downrange, aboard ships and stationed overseas.
Xbox One, Microsoft's much-anticipated new console, got its big reveal at the Electronic Entertainment Expo gamers' convention in Los Angeles. Company honchos are confident it will come to dominate living rooms over the next decade not only as the gaming delivery vehicle of choice, but also with a barrage of other content, including a suite of apps, streaming video and music.
There's one big but, however: To get all this entertainment awesomeness, the console will have to check in online with the Microsoft mothership at least once a day.
"With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection," an Xbox spokesperson tell Military Times.
Showstoppers
Metcalf called that a "showstopper" for any service members who rely on their Xbox for off-duty diversions downrange, in the field, or at sea.
Which is to say, just about everyone.
And it gets worse for on-the-go troops. The Xbox One:
■ Can play only in Xbox One-friendly countries. Even if you're lucky enough to have a regular, reliable Internet connection while overseas, you'll have to be in one of 21 countries included in Microsoft's server network. So, if you're stationed in, say, Germany, Italy or Great Briatin, you're good to go. But if you're based in Japan, Kuwait or Afghanistan, you're out of luck.
■ Will have region-locked games. Games bought in the U.S. can be activated only in the U.S. That means no more ripping open the latest title that just arrived in a care package from home while you're deployed. And forget about buying games locally when overseas — if your Xbox Live account isn't tied to the region when you activate a game, it won't play.
■ Serious security concerns. Even when the Xbox One is in sleep mode, its built-in microphone can always listen in. It's a feature developers say will provide quick voice-command access to games and apps — but that could spook commanders who might worry the always-connected device could also capture more than just idle chit-chat among troops.
"Microsoft has single handedly alienated the entire military. And not just the U.S. military — the militaries of the entire world," says naval aviator Jay Johnson.
The Internet connection requirement is "the single greatest sin Microsoft has committed against all service members," he writes in a post on the game developers' site Gamasutra.
With tours aboard three Nimitz-class aircraft carriers, Johnson says he's spent more than half of the past three years deployed or training at sea. He describes gaming in general and his Xbox in particular as "my sanctuary. It is where I went to calm down after a long day of flying."
But that won't be true with the Xbox One, he says.
"No longer will the sounds of Master Chief saving the human race echo through the hallowed halls of the USS Abraham Lincoln, or any other USS ship, when we have a few hours respite. No longer will you see Marcus and Dom sawing through the Locust Horde at the bases in Afghanistan after the Marines have returned from patrol and want to escape their reality for a bit. Those days are now firmly behind us."
Microsoft: Sucks to be you
Not to fear, says Xbox exec Don Mattrick, president of the Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment division. The company has a solution for those in the military: Just use the old Xbox 360 instead.
"Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called Xbox 360. If you have zero access to the Internet, that is an offline device," Mattrick told Game Trailer at E3 in an interview posted online.
He says he feels your pain, though.
"When I read the blogs and thought about who's really the most impacted, there was a person who said, "Hey, I'm on a nuclear sub.' I don't even know what it means to be on a nuclear sub, but I've got to imagine that it's not easy to get an Internet connection. Hey, I can empathize. If I was on a sub, I'd be disappointed."
OFFduty asked Microsoft officials if that empathy might translate into practical workarounds for the military.
"I don't have additional details to share and can't speculate on workarounds at this time," wrote Xbox rep Danica Stickel in an emailed response to questions, repeating the suggestion that troops could just use the 360 instead.
"Although we're very excited about Xbox One, we remain dedicated to Xbox 360 now and for years to come. In fact, we are expecting some of the greatest blockbusters of 2013 and 2014 to come out on Xbox 360."
She did offer some encouragement for Xbox One hopefuls, however, saying the regional lock restrictions aren't much different from other content protections.
"Similar to the movie and music industry, games and other content must meet country-specific regulatory guidelines before they are cleared for sale — which means that games will work in the broad geographic regions for which they have been cleared, much as today with Xbox 360," Stickel wrote.
"While the console itself is not geographically restricted, a user's Xbox Live account, content, apps and experiences are all tied to the country of billing and residence," she wrote.
"Military personnel will be able to take their Xbox One and play their games with them without an issue as long as the game has been 'activated' once in the U.S. Your games go with you and play, no issues," she says.
Stickel also downplayed security concerns over the console's always-on microphone or built-in Kinect video camera.
"When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded," she says. "You will determine how responsive and personalized your Xbox One is to you and your family during setup. The system will navigate you through key privacy options."
But even those outside the military have been surprised by Micosoft's shrug to the military community, with some speculating it will fuel a wider surge toward Sony's Playstation console.
"This is shameful, says Joel Hruska, a writer for Extreme Tech website. "Telling troops that you 'empathize' with them is both embarrassing and hands Sony perfect ammunition."
"Do I think Microsoft is going to change?" writes Hruska in a recent post. "Honestly, no. The remarks that've come out to date paint a picture of a company that's so drunk on its own Kool-Aid, they aren't listening to outside criticism or commentary any longer."
I'm sure Microsoft believes they are in the minority as much as the people that live outside of the 21 countries. (Hint: they aren't a minority. Some of the countries not included in the Xbox One deal have some of the largest gaming populations in the world). The suggestion of the Xbox 360 is absurd. At that point, you might as well build your own PC or buy the PS4 if you want even remotely modern graphics. Watching someone play FarCry 3 on a Xbox 360 was painful compared to a PC-version. It lagged through the opening cinema. The hardware is old. People want to replace it but to suggest going to the Xbox 360 just so you can keep the DRM? Yeah, that's not a winning business move.
Well I thought it was an interesting perspective coming from a non gaming oriented website. People from all walks of life are concerned.
It certainly is, I also didn't realize they had region-locked activation. The more I hear about it the more I'm being pushed to PS4, Sony may not be innovating a new model but sometimes the one you've got is the one that works.
As sad as it is to hear, and coming from a military family, I'm sorry that the One isn't going to work for them, but I'm also not going to get upset if they don't change their vision of what the One is. I also think that a huge portion of the problem is people spinning the facts so that they can find something to rage about. It really doesn't take much to activate a system before you ship it to your loved one overseas. When you are adding stuff to the care package, you tend to rebox things or add things to existing boxes.
I think that 90% of this rage is really funny because it's rage based on guesses on other people's guesses. Instead of getting upset, how about not buying the product sight unseen and wait until someone you know has gotten their hands on it? or at the very least, how about waiting until all the facts are in?
I think that it's in the nature of too many people to take offense where none is given and to play the victim when no crime is committed.
The One is their vision of what the future of home entertainment will look like. Not every is going to agree with it, but it's not an attack on the people that don't agree. We spend far too much time in this country making demands and then getting upset when every one of our demands aren't met.
At the end of the day, people are going to buy either system because they want to. Neither company is forcing them to buy or not buy their product. It's really simple. If you don't want what the One offers, don't buy it. It's like getting mad that off road truck you bought isn't going to ever be used for off roading, but you're pissed that it isn't amphibious.
A boat requires water to function optimally with the designer's vision. A car requires ground. The One requires internet. It's that simple. Don't buy a boat if you're never going to take it into the water.
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 07:16:28 AM
As sad as it is to hear, and coming from a military family, I'm sorry that the One isn't going to work for them, but I'm also not going to get upset if they don't change their vision of what the One is. I also think that a huge portion of the problem is people spinning the facts so that they can find something to rage about. It really doesn't take much to activate a system before you ship it to your loved one overseas. When you are adding stuff to the care package, you tend to rebox things or add things to existing boxes.
I think that 90% of this rage is really funny because it's rage based on guesses on other people's guesses. Instead of getting upset, how about not buying the product sight unseen and wait until someone you know has gotten their hands on it? or at the very least, how about waiting until all the facts are in?
I think that it's in the nature of too many people to take offense where none is given and to play the victim when no crime is committed.
The One is their vision of what the future of home entertainment will look like. Not every is going to agree with it, but it's not an attack on the people that don't agree. We spend far too much time in this country making demands and then getting upset when every one of our demands aren't met.
At the end of the day, people are going to buy either system because they want to. Neither company is forcing them to buy or not buy their product. It's really simple. If you don't want what the One offers, don't buy it. It's like getting mad that off road truck you bought isn't going to ever be used for off roading, but you're pissed that it isn't amphibious.
A boat requires water to function optimally with the designer's vision. A car requires ground. The One requires internet. It's that simple. Don't buy a boat if you're never going to take it into the water.
Well said.
The concern is that they are adding restrictions where there weren't restrictions before. Say I own a car, it can drive on any road I choose to drive it on. Now I buy a new car and it can only be driven on 6 lane highways, that's an issue for me.
I'm not saying this is a major issue for me, my connection is reliable, I just don't like this drastic change in model.
Quote from: billybob476 on June 19, 2013, 09:16:05 AM
The concern is that they are adding restrictions where there weren't restrictions before. Say I own a car, it can drive on any road I choose to drive it on. Now I buy a new car and it can only be driven on 6 lane highways, that's an issue for me.
I'm not saying this is a major issue for me, my connection is reliable, I just don't like this drastic change in model.
I like your analogy, but you can't drive on any road that you choose. You need to pay tolls to drive on a toll road and you can't drive on private roads. You also can only drive at certain speeds and only on a certain side of the road. Everything has restrictions. And using your analogy further, let's say that the XBOX One is a car. Before you ever set foot in said car, you have been told that you need gas to drive it and it's top speed. You are given the information to make an informed decision on if you want to buy that car. If you still buy that car, you then need to deal with the limitations and benefits of your choice.
In the case of the XBOX One, I like the benefits and the limitations will not in any way hamper what I will be doing. The limitation are a non-factor because they will not affect me in any noticeable way, while the benefits will mean a significant savings when it comes to future purchases for my family. This model works for me and I still have several 360s if I want to play offline(which I never do).
Systems are always going to have some sort of restrictions. Most products do. That beings said, these restrictions really don't apply to me and will never actually affect me. If I can't connect to the internet once every 24 hours for a few seconds, something more important that playing games is probably going on in my neighborhood.
I also see that people in general don't mind restrictions if the product is something that they want. Look at the iPAD. Tons of restrictions, millions of sales.
Im pretty sure i understand your point, that ultimately the restrictions don't affect you in any way, and so you're perfectly fine with it all. Where I'm losing you is the notion that people who ARE impacted by the restrictions shouldnt complain about it and rather be happy with their seven year old system because hey, times change, this new system isn't meant for you anymore. These people, how many is debatable, are saying they're not happy with the new direction their Xbox is taking, and they have a right to make their opinions known. Nobody in the article you're responding to is making any demands of Microsoft, they're expressing themselves about how the new restrictions and policies prevent them from using the new Xbox.
...and as I said on the last episode of my podcast, if I'm given two machines that are effectively the same from a hardware/performance standpoint, I'll take the one that has fewer restrictions.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 19, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
Im pretty sure i understand your point, that ultimately the restrictions don't affect you in any way, and so you're perfectly fine with it all. Where I'm losing you is the notion that people who ARE impacted by the restrictions shouldnt complain about it and rather be happy with their seven year old system because hey, times change, this new system isn't meant for you anymore. These people, how many is debatable, are saying they're not happy with the new direction their Xbox is taking, and they have a right to make their opinions known. Nobody in the article you're responding to is making any demands of Microsoft, they're expressing themselves about how the new restrictions and policies prevent them from using the new Xbox.
I think I get where you're coming from, but I don't understand the need to complain for the sake of complaining. Never did. Also, their XBOX isn't taking a new direction. It's the same thing it was, but it's gotten a bit smaller. This is a new machine with new goals, objectives, and features. It is not a continuation of the 360 in any way. Microsoft is offering a new product in their Xbox brand. If these people are voicing their opinion just for the sake of voicing their opinion, it's nothing more than pointless complaining.
Initial reports are the PS3 has an advantage performance-wise because the XBone is dedicating a significant portion of its onboard RAM to running three operating systems simultaneously for Windows, Kinect, and video games, for features like instant app switching, Skype overlays, etc.
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 19, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
Im pretty sure i understand your point, that ultimately the restrictions don't affect you in any way, and so you're perfectly fine with it all. Where I'm losing you is the notion that people who ARE impacted by the restrictions shouldnt complain about it and rather be happy with their seven year old system because hey, times change, this new system isn't meant for you anymore. These people, how many is debatable, are saying they're not happy with the new direction their Xbox is taking, and they have a right to make their opinions known. Nobody in the article you're responding to is making any demands of Microsoft, they're expressing themselves about how the new restrictions and policies prevent them from using the new Xbox.
I think I get where you're coming from, but I don't understand the need to complain for the sake of complaining. Never did. Also, their XBOX isn't taking a new direction. It's the same thing it was, but it's gotten a bit smaller. This is a new machine with new goals, objectives, and features. It is not a continuation of the 360 in any way. Microsoft is offering a new product in their Xbox brand. If these people are voicing their opinion just for the sake of voicing their opinion, it's nothing more than pointless complaining.
I can't say I agree with that. If you disagree with something, then it is well within your right to express that disagreement. At the end of the day people will vote with their wallets, but there is no harm in having a discussion.
Quote from: billybob476 on June 19, 2013, 12:41:46 PM
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 19, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
Im pretty sure i understand your point, that ultimately the restrictions don't affect you in any way, and so you're perfectly fine with it all. Where I'm losing you is the notion that people who ARE impacted by the restrictions shouldnt complain about it and rather be happy with their seven year old system because hey, times change, this new system isn't meant for you anymore. These people, how many is debatable, are saying they're not happy with the new direction their Xbox is taking, and they have a right to make their opinions known. Nobody in the article you're responding to is making any demands of Microsoft, they're expressing themselves about how the new restrictions and policies prevent them from using the new Xbox.
I think I get where you're coming from, but I don't understand the need to complain for the sake of complaining. Never did. Also, their XBOX isn't taking a new direction. It's the same thing it was, but it's gotten a bit smaller. This is a new machine with new goals, objectives, and features. It is not a continuation of the 360 in any way. Microsoft is offering a new product in their Xbox brand. If these people are voicing their opinion just for the sake of voicing their opinion, it's nothing more than pointless complaining.
I can't say I agree with that. If you disagree with something, then it is well within your right to express that disagreement. At the end of the day people will vote with their wallets, but there is no harm in having a discussion.
The voice of reason! :-)
It seems that every other sodding thread on this forum these days that tries to have a critical discussion gets shot down with "don't like it? Don't use / play / watch it" answers....
The fact plenty of people are unhappy with Microsoft's decision here and most don't even know about it yet. I'm just glad I don't work in the video game retail industry anymore. They will be on the front line. :(
And it looks like Microsoft may have bottled it! The internet is going crazy over this news and the website is overloading!
http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/microsoft-to-pull-complete-reversal-on-xbox-one-dr/1100-4673/ (http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/microsoft-to-pull-complete-reversal-on-xbox-one-dr/1100-4673/)
Quote from: Dangelus on June 19, 2013, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: billybob476 on June 19, 2013, 12:41:46 PM
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 19, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
Im pretty sure i understand your point, that ultimately the restrictions don't affect you in any way, and so you're perfectly fine with it all. Where I'm losing you is the notion that people who ARE impacted by the restrictions shouldnt complain about it and rather be happy with their seven year old system because hey, times change, this new system isn't meant for you anymore. These people, how many is debatable, are saying they're not happy with the new direction their Xbox is taking, and they have a right to make their opinions known. Nobody in the article you're responding to is making any demands of Microsoft, they're expressing themselves about how the new restrictions and policies prevent them from using the new Xbox.
I think I get where you're coming from, but I don't understand the need to complain for the sake of complaining. Never did. Also, their XBOX isn't taking a new direction. It's the same thing it was, but it's gotten a bit smaller. This is a new machine with new goals, objectives, and features. It is not a continuation of the 360 in any way. Microsoft is offering a new product in their Xbox brand. If these people are voicing their opinion just for the sake of voicing their opinion, it's nothing more than pointless complaining.
I can't say I agree with that. If you disagree with something, then it is well within your right to express that disagreement. At the end of the day people will vote with their wallets, but there is no harm in having a discussion.
The voice of reason! :-)
It seems that every other sodding thread on this forum these days that tries to have a critical discussion gets shot down with "don't like it? Don't use / play / watch it" answers....
The fact plenty of people are unhappy with Microsoft's decision here and most don't even know about it yet. I'm just glad I don't work in the video game retail industry anymore. They will be on the front line. :(
A critical discussion is one thing. Empty complains are another. What can you honestly discuss when the comment is "I won't buy it I don't like the DRM." I'm all for critical discussions, but how does that start, add, or expand a discussion?
If you're not buying something and nothing is going to change your mind, there is really nothing left to discuss.
So if I've made the decision not to buy one it precludes me from discussing the product and it's possible weaknesses?
Take this with a grain of salt for now, but Giant Bomb news writer Patrick Klepek is reporting that "multiple sources" are telling him that Microsoft will be announcing a complete reversal of its controversial Xbox One game licensing and online policies later today.
According to the report (which is currently killing Giant Bomb's servers), this means the Xbox One will no longer have to check in regularly online but will instead only require an Internet connection during the initial system setup. Game discs will be just as portable as they were on the Xbox 360, with no restrictions on resale or transfer, and downloadable games will work offline as well as online. Region locks on the system will also reportedly be dropped.
A separate report from WhatTheHiFi confirms the essential facts of the Giant Bomb report through its own unnamed sources, adding that developers are being informed of the change before consumers hear about it officially later today.
While neither site gives any more details on where this information is coming from, Klepek says that his sources tell him that Microsoft has definitely been listening closely to consumer feedback in the weeks since first revealing its information.
We're reaching out to our own sources on this and will of course let you know when anything official comes out."
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/rumor-microsoft-set-to-reverse-controversial-game-licensing-policies/ (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/rumor-microsoft-set-to-reverse-controversial-game-licensing-policies/)
I didn't say that at all. Discuss the possible weaknesses. Do you have any thing else to add to the conversation? Do you have a solution that might balance the goals of the new machines with your own desires? I say again, complaining for the sake of complaining isn't a discussion. Neither is praise for the sake of praise. In all of the above, I pointed out what I liked, why it worked for me and how the other stuff would not apply. Because it used to be that way isn't a very productive talking point and after it's said, is there really a need to add more? Empty complains with no suggestion of realistic resolution don't create discussions, they create arguments.
This is huge news if true. I'm suddenly much more confused about which one I want at launch now, since I'd pretty much decided on PS4 up to now. Ill definitely be getting both eventually but with game rentals available for both systems the decision is much harder about which to buy first.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 19, 2013, 01:33:31 PM
This is huge news if true. I'm suddenly much more confused about which one I want at launch now, since I'd pretty much decided on PS4 up to now. Ill definitely be getting both eventually but with game rentals available for both systems the decision is much harder about which to buy first.
While, I'm happy for you guys, I hope it doesn't screw over the Family sharing that I was looking forward to.
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 01:30:06 PM
I didn't say that at all. Discuss the possible weaknesses. Do you have any thing else to add to the conversation? Do you have a solution that might balance the goals of the new machines with your own desires? I say again, complaining for the sake of complaining isn't a discussion. Neither is praise for the sake of praise. In all of the above, I pointed out what I liked, why it worked for me and how the other stuff would not apply. Because it used to be that way isn't a very productive talking point and after it's said, is there really a need to add more? Empty complains with no suggestion of realistic resolution don't create discussions, they create arguments.
Fine. Ironically it seems Microsoft may have been more interested in consumers complaints from the current rumours! :-)
Apparently MS has posted the news here: http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa (http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa)
but the site is down (I assume due to traffic)
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 01:36:34 PM
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 19, 2013, 01:33:31 PM
This is huge news if true. I'm suddenly much more confused about which one I want at launch now, since I'd pretty much decided on PS4 up to now. Ill definitely be getting both eventually but with game rentals available for both systems the decision is much harder about which to buy first.
While, I'm happy for you guys, I hope it doesn't screw over the Family sharing that I was looking forward to.
just play split screen like normal people ;) JUST KIDDING
Yeah Chris, it looks like family sharing is being scrapped, based on the Microsoft report, linked above.
Quote
Last week at E3, the excitement, creativity and future of our industry was on display for a global audience.
For us, the future comes in the form of Xbox One, a system designed to be the best place to play games this year and for many years to come. As is our heritage with Xbox, we designed a system that could take full advantage of advances in technology in order to deliver a breakthrough in game play and entertainment. We imagined a new set of benefits such as easier roaming, family sharing, and new ways to try and buy games. We believe in the benefits of a connected, digital future.
Since unveiling our plans for Xbox One, my team and I have heard directly from many of you, read your comments and listened to your feedback. I would like to take the opportunity today to thank you for your assistance in helping us to reshape the future of Xbox One.
You told us how much you loved the flexibility you have today with games delivered on disc. The ability to lend, share, and resell these games at your discretion is of incredible importance to you. Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world.
So, today I am announcing the following changes to Xbox One and how you can play, share, lend, and resell your games exactly as you do today on Xbox 360. Here is what that means:
An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games – After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.
Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today – There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.
In addition to buying a disc from a retailer, you can also download games from Xbox Live on day of release. If you choose to download your games, you will be able to play them offline just like you do today. Xbox One games will be playable on any Xbox One console -- there will be no regional restrictions.
These changes will impact some of the scenarios we previously announced for Xbox One. The sharing of games will work as it does today, you will simply share the disc. Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.
We appreciate your passion, support and willingness to challenge the assumptions of digital licensing and connectivity. While we believe that the majority of people will play games online and access the cloud for both games and entertainment, we will give consumers the choice of both physical and digital content. We have listened and we have heard loud and clear from your feedback that you want the best of both worlds.
Thank you again for your candid feedback. Our team remains committed to listening, taking feedback and delivering a great product for you later this year.
Something to note, there will still be a one time system activation which will require an internet connection. That doesn't bother me but still may be an issue for some.
At least now the decision of which to buy will be mostly based on what games are available/exclusive at launch, as it should be in my opinion.
Let's face it they were sh*t scared this would be the death knell and came to their senses. I guess people did care about these restrictions after all huh?
Quote from: Dangelus on June 19, 2013, 02:19:28 PM
Let's face it they were sh*t scared this would be the death knell and came to their senses. I guess people did care about these restrictions after all huh?
We really don't know what percentage of people actually cared about the restrictions. I'm glad you see it as a win.
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: Dangelus on June 19, 2013, 02:19:28 PM
Let's face it they were sh*t scared this would be the death knell and came to their senses. I guess people did care about these restrictions after all huh?
We really don't know what percentage of people actually cared about the restrictions. I'm glad you see it as a win.
I don't have a horse in this race, not a console gamer.
The press release says it's community feedback that caused this change. I don't know the percentage either apart from it's too high for Microsoft.
I have been trying to suss how this impacted MSFT as an investment but you lot have been of no help! :)
Quote from: Dangelus on June 19, 2013, 02:19:28 PM
Let's face it they were sh*t scared this would be the death knell and came to their senses. I guess people did care about these restrictions after all huh?
Just smart business to react to what their TYPICAL CORE users care about. Thumbs up to them not being stubborn.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 19, 2013, 02:44:58 PM
I have been trying to suss how this impacted MSFT as an investment but you lot have been of no help! :)
It should be good for them. Hardcore gamers might whine about stuff, but they still end up getting it in the end. Now, Xbox One, the most talked about console on the interwebs has "listened to consumers" and removed all of the perceived flaws from the system. Those not following closely won't even know what family sharing was.
In the end MS gets to get painted as the company that listens to it's people and sony now has to address their own flaws like the paid online feature they added.
So, I guess this is a big win for MS, the company that listens to it's consumers.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2013/06/19/how-shedding-drm-in-the-xbox-one-benefits-microsoft/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2013/06/19/how-shedding-drm-in-the-xbox-one-benefits-microsoft/)
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 02:55:37 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 19, 2013, 02:44:58 PM
I have been trying to suss how this impacted MSFT as an investment but you lot have been of no help! :)
It should be good for them. Hardcore gamers might whine about stuff, but they still end up getting it in the end. Now, Xbox One, the most talked about console on the interwebs has "listened to consumers" and removed all of the perceived flaws from the system. Those not following closely won't even know what family sharing was.
In the end MS gets to get painted as the company that listens to it's people and sony now has to address their own flaws like the paid online feature they added.
So, I guess this is a big win for MS, the company that listens to it's consumers.
Well they still need to deal with the over inflated price and the creepy Kinect requirement but it's a good start!
That Forbes article is wrong about playing saved games remotely, you can do that now with cloud saves and there's no reason to think it wouldn't be a feature in the XBone
The price isn't really that different if you consider you're getting Kinect in every box, while the eye isn't included with the PS4. Although many don't like being forced to use Kinect, it's necessary to pack it in if MS wants universal third party support for the device. $100 isn't a deal breaker for me.
A really good article here.
http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905 (http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905)
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 03:14:41 PM
A really good article here.
http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905 (http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905)
He makes a lot of assumptions that have no basis in fact. Like some of the comments say, the comparison with the Steam model is inaccurate. They could make digital versions of games cheaper than they don't. Interesting but wishful thinking here.
Quote from: Dangelus on June 19, 2013, 03:33:17 PM
Quote from: X on June 19, 2013, 03:14:41 PM
A really good article here.
http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905 (http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905)
He makes a lot of assumptions that have no basis in fact. Like some of the comments say, the comparison with the Steam model is inaccurate. They could make digital versions of games cheaper than they don't. Interesting but wishful thinking here.
Every criticism and "issue" with the Xbox one had no basis in fact. It was never always on. your kinect wasn't there to spy on you. Also, I'll put this simple. You are wrong about game cost. Right now, you can buy a brand new fully featured Digital game on XBOX 360 for 20 bucks or less. Since you don't play console games, you probably don't know that, but it's there. Digital releases are cheaper than physical games. It's only when it's the same game that the price becomes the same.
You are wrong about the comparison to the Steam model because you can buy games on 360 at varied cost. From free on up. His assumptions are based entirely on the facts that we have been given and what has already been shown on the 360.
I think the biggest problem I have with your comments is that you're trying to dismiss something as having no basis in facts when it appears that you yourself have no clue as to what the facts even are.
As for same game being cheaper digitally out the box, that would never work because you instantly drive away anyone that sells your product. Hell, this is why most digital things start off at the same cost as the physical. It would be a damned poor business decision.
Simple supply and demand would have kept the licensing cost cheaper in the long run than what we currently have. If publishers know that they are going to turn a larger profit by more sales, they are more inclined to lower prices. As much as people hate to admit it to themselves, many of the sales you see in stores aren't because the stores decided to do it, but because the manufacturer makes incentives to drive sales. This is standard business practices. This isn't a magic trick. The guy was right on point with what was lost and entirely based on the facts that we were given.
What digital games are you talking about for 360 Chris? Live Arcade releases or Live On Demand titles? Live Arcade titles are typically shorter less featured games than the full price $60 releases, and anything I've seen in the Games On Demand store can be had much cheaper in the retail stores, especially the $29.99 titles which are usually around ten bucks or less in brick and mortar. You're again dismissing everyone's concerns about the XBone as uninformed and untrue, and you're just wrong. Many people who criticized the console had a thorough understanding of the facts and still felt the way they did. And I think the assumptions that were made in that opinion piece were that Microsoft and publishers would voluntarily lower prices to benefit consumers given increased profits from eliminating or controlling the resale and rental markets. I can't think of anything that would lead me to believe that would happen.
I was referring to digital game prices in comparison to the same game on physical medium. The prices are inflated to appease retailers. Very often digital prices are HIGHER than the same game on disc over time depreciation. What they needed to do is kill the used market but this is the retailers life blood and they won't allow it. If they did this then the digital market could be more competitive like the writer says.
The Steam comparison is inaccurate because the PC is an open system. You can get games from many different sources and there are competing digital markets driving down price. Not to mention the pressure from piracy which is pretty much a non issue for xbox.
I am familiar with and have been a console gamer. I had them all multiple times. I also know how the video games retail industry works as I was part of it for many years.
I'm not saying he's got it completely wrong but it's certainly a utopian best scenario he was hoping for.
As for the Kinect, the requirement that it must be connected for the console to function is what's creepy. Microsoft are transitioning to more of a services model. They are losing foothold in the PC market and taking on Google in the data collection sector using the kinect makes total business sense. It is a lucrative market. Measuring people's reaction to games and collecting marketing data on people watching TV etc is invaluable.
It certainly would have been interesting to see the two consoles
compete with such dramatically different sales models. I guess we'll never know how it would have turned out.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 19, 2013, 04:11:28 PM
What digital games are you talking about for 360 Chris? Live Arcade releases or Live On Demand titles? Live Arcade titles are typically shorter less featured games than the full price $60 releases, and anything I've seen in the Games On Demand store can be had much cheaper in the retail stores, especially the $29.99 titles which are usually around ten bucks or less in brick and mortar. You're again dismissing everyone's concerns about the XBone as uninformed and untrue, and you're just wrong. Many people who criticized the console had a thorough understanding of the facts and still felt the way they did. And I think the assumptions that were made in that opinion piece were that Microsoft and publishers would voluntarily lower prices to benefit consumers given increased profits from eliminating or controlling the resale and rental markets. I can't think of anything that would lead me to believe that would happen.
But they do this now. A few weeks after Defiant was released, it was far cheaper on PC.
Quote from: Jobydrone on June 19, 2013, 04:23:19 PM
It certainly would have been interesting to see the two consoles
compete with such dramatically different sales models. I guess we'll never know how it would have turned out.
Given a choice between a pair of next generation consoles where one lets you shop the way you're used to, buying and trading games like products you own, while the other one says, "you'll shop, play and trade your games the way we say or nothing oh and by the way, best have good internet," who do you think will get the sales?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323689204578571992848684764.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323689204578571992848684764.html)
Google Inc. GOOG +0.38% is developing a videogame console and wristwatch powered by its Android operating system, according to people familiar with the matter, as the Internet company seeks to spread the software beyond smartphones and tablets.
With the game machine and digital watch, Google is hoping to combat similar devices that Apple Inc. AAPL +0.70% may release in the future, according to the people.
Google is also preparing to release a second version of an Android-powered media-streaming device, called Nexus Q, that was unveiled last year but not sold to the public, these people said.
The Internet giant hopes to design and market the devices itself and release at least one of them this fall, they added.
A Google spokeswoman declined to comment.
Games that run on Android software have proved particularly popular, and they are growing more quickly than games made for the big-name consoles supplied by Microsoft Corp., MSFT -0.22% Sony Corp. 6758.TO +2.11% and Nintendo Co. 7974.OK +6.29% The appeal of such games has prompted the development of new devices aimed specifically for Android by other hardware companies.
Sony and Microsoft have recently unveiled new versions of their PlayStation and Xbox game consoles, which are expected to go on sale later this year. Together with Nintendo, sales of the games for these devices accounted for most of the $24.9 billion spent world-wide last year on console games, according to market researcher PwC.
The people briefed on the matter said Google is reacting in part to expectations that rival Apple will launch a videogame console as part of its next Apple TV product release.
An Apple spokeswoman declined to comment.
Google has also been watching the efforts of Ouya Inc., a startup that this week began selling a $99 Android-based console and game controller, one of these people said.
The company's hardware efforts come as it wraps up development on the next version of Android, which is expected to be released in the fall. Among other things, the software will be better tailored to the lower-cost smartphones prevalent in developing countries with the aim of firming up Android's market-share globally, said some of the people familiar with the matter.
Google, through its Android unit and Google X hardware lab, is seeking to build devices separately from the company's Motorola hardware division. The handset maker was acquired last year and is currently focused on launching an Android-based smartphone called the Moto X.
Meanwhile, Google has been developing low-cost Android smartphones of its own with an eye toward offering them in developing markets, other people familiar with the matter have said, including in markets where Google plans to fund or help create next-generation wireless networks.
With the next release of Android this fall, Google is also moving more aggressively to use the software in additional kinds of devices, including laptops and appliances such as refrigerators.
Personal-computer makers including Hewlett Packard Co. HPQ +0.12% are already working on Android-powered laptops running the next version of the software, an effort that is separate from already launched Android tablets that can physically connect to a keyboard, according to people familiar with the matter. Android laptops would thus compete with those powered by Microsoft's Windows software. An H-P spokeswoman declined to comment.
Android is offered free to makers of devices like smartphones and tablets, with Samsung Electronics Co. 005930.SE +0.22% the biggest of Google's hardware partners. The hardware helps Google generate revenue from services like Google Search and YouTube.
Last fall Google said it was on track to generate $8 billion annually in gross revenue from mobile devices, though some analysts say the majority of Google's net mobile revenue comes from Web search and YouTube used on Apple devices.
As part of the release of the next Android version—known internally as "K release" and referred to by industry observers as "Key Lime Pie"—Google will give manufacturers such as Samsung greater freedom to use Android in devices other than smartphones and tablets, such as appliances and wearable devices, said people familiar with the matter.
Manufacturers that build devices using the official version of Android—which comes with Google's Web services preinstalled—weren't previously allowed by Google to use the Android name to promote devices other than smartphones and tablets. Over time, Google has changed its "compatibility" restrictions to allow for more device types.
Samsung has said it's working on an Android-based watch with smartphone-like capabilities. Wearable computing is a hot area of development for startups and technology giants. The Wall Street Journal reported in February that Apple was developing a watch-like device with smartphone features.
Google's planned watch is expected to connect to a person's smartphone via Bluetooth technology, said people familiar with the matter. The Business Insider blog said in January that Google was "actively exploring the idea" of making such a watch.
Some industry observers say Google, Samsung and other technology companies are motivated in part by a desire not to let Apple build a big lead in a newer product category, as it did after launching the iPhone and iPad.
For its part, Google is also trying to popularize a new category of wearable devices. Its most serious effort is Google Glass, a device worn on the face with a computer screen above one eye. It delivers information from the person's smartphone, which is connected to Glass via Bluetooth technology. The device, made by the Google X unit, is expected to go on sale to the public next year.
Google has hit some bumps on the road to becoming a legitimate hardware manufacturer and consumer-electronics brand like Apple.
The first version of its spherically shaped Nexus Q home-entertainment device—the first-ever consumer device designed and marketed by Google—was unveiled last year, but its sale to the public was canceled amid criticism that its $299 price tag was too high. The next version of the Android-based device, which is supposed to help Google sell more music and movies through Google Play, will be much less expensive, said the people familiar with the matter.
According to Google, the majority of Android devices currently being used rely on a version of the software released in 2011 that has fewer capabilities than newer releases. Some industry experts say that the most recent versions of Android are better for higher-end devices than lower-end or older ones that had, for instance, 512 megabytes of memory.
The coming version of Android is supposed to remedy the issue, said people familiar with the matter, and also help mobile app developers focus on optimizing their apps for fewer versions of the software.
Google's head of Android, Sundar Pichai, in May said more than 900 million devices powered by Android had been activated worldwide, up from 400 million a year ago and 100 million two years ago.
Jen-Hsun Huang, the chief executive of Nvidia Corp., NVDA +0.21% which makes microchips for devices powered by Android, said in a recent interview that over time there would be three billion people who use Android devices, and that one million programmers globally are already using the software to build applications or devices. He said Android is poised to disrupt the videogame and consumer-electronics industry; computer systems in cars; as well as personal computing, such as desktop computers. He declined to discuss any unreleased products.
"If you're a child living outside of California, your first device is likely to be Android," he said.