Watched the whole thing today, very impressive. This and with all the Surface announcements the future is looking pretty bright at Microsoft.
I may turn to the light side for my next smartphone! :)
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/microsoft-introduces-windows-phone-8/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fengadget+(Engadget) (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/microsoft-introduces-windows-phone-8/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fengadget+(Engadget))
The only way I'll move platforms is if that platform has better apps and better support for said apps. So...we shall see.
King
Ideally is prefer a native Linux device but it would be nice to purge Apple once and for all. I can't afford to live in their ecosystem and the experience is much better when you go the whole hog with them.
Quote from: Dangelus on June 20, 2012, 06:04:21 PM
Ideally is prefer a native Linux device but it would be nice to purge Apple once and for all. I can't afford to live in their ecosystem and the experience is much better when you go the whole hog with them.
Problem with Linux is lack of support...maybe that'll change but yeah.
Although really, its expensive to be in anyone's ecosystem, MS by all appearances won't likely change that anytime soon. Just buying Windows OS 8 is looking to be spendy.
King
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 20, 2012, 06:06:55 PM
Quote from: Dangelus on June 20, 2012, 06:04:21 PM
Ideally is prefer a native Linux device but it would be nice to purge Apple once and for all. I can't afford to live in their ecosystem and the experience is much better when you go the whole hog with them.
Problem with Linux is lack of support...maybe that'll change but yeah.
Although really, its expensive to be in anyone's ecosystem, MS by all appearances won't likely change that anytime soon. Just buying Windows OS 8 is looking to be spendy.
King
Well Linux actually has tons of support from a development point of view. Its worked on my thousands of community developers across the world every day. Android is built on Linux and Linux runs millions of consumer electronic devices. Many countries run Linux on official government systems and also in education. Heck parts of the US military have adopted it and they've even commissioned drones that are Linux controlled.
In terms of cost PC hardware is cheaper than Mac hardware and there is much more diversity and independence for the consumer. If I want a laptop there are a handful of Mac options and at least a few hundred PC options.
There is no doubt about it, the best quality tablet device at the moment is an iPad. It isn't the most flexible device but nothing comes close to it's build and stability. Again though there is only a handful of choices when it comes to an iPad. If Windows 8 succeeds in the mobile / tablet space there will be plenty of choice, some at the lower end of the market too. It's exciting times.
I got an iPad because I wanted a tablet device but I'd ditch it tomorrow if I could. I'd rather have a tablet PC that was a lot more open. It's crazy that I have to Jailbreak my ipad just to have the ability to email any type of file as an attachment direct from the mail app for example.
You're right about the apps, support I don't think will be an issue. Microsoft are pushing and doing a lot to promote Metro app development, it's in their interest. Diversity and choice of apps will be the key. There are over 100,000 apps in the Windows Phone store right now. Yes there are millions in the iOS store but I bet you couldn't name 100 apps that you use religiously. There needs to be a balance of quality and quantity.
From the presentation I saw today they have some great things planned for Windows Phone 8. Of course it's not going to come close to iOS or Android popularity any time soon but I'd take a strong third choice. :)
Aps are the name of the game right now. Without them, they can't compete. The reason iOS is 60% of the mobile market isn't that it's so much better then Android or Windows. And the phones are pretty ubiquitous. It's the pas the keeps Apple in the lead and it will be a massive challenge to overcome that advantage. Certainly not in the near term.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 20, 2012, 07:50:30 PM
Aps are the name of the game right now. Without them, they can't compete. The reason iOS is 60% of the mobile market isn't that it's so much better then Android or Windows. And the phones are pretty ubiquitous. It's the pas the keeps Apple in the lead and it will be a massive challenge to overcome that advantage. Certainly not in the near term.
Don't think they are even aiming to grab significant market share but it's great to have an alternative. They have the majority of the "essential" apps and Words With Friends is coming soon ;)
Quote from: Dangelus on June 20, 2012, 09:32:55 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 20, 2012, 07:50:30 PM
Aps are the name of the game right now. Without them, they can't compete. The reason iOS is 60% of the mobile market isn't that it's so much better then Android or Windows. And the phones are pretty ubiquitous. It's the pas the keeps Apple in the lead and it will be a massive challenge to overcome that advantage. Certainly not in the near term.
Don't think they are even aiming to grab significant market share but it's great to have an alternative. They have the majority of the "essential" apps and Words With Friends is coming soon ;)
What do you mean "essential" apps?
While your right, the number of actually good Apple apps is up for debate. But the same could be said for the 100,000 window phone apps. How many of those are actually not farting apps? Or other pointless apps just thrown in to make a quick buck. That number irritates me everytime Apple or Microsoft state it and I wish there was actually a number for apps that were good. If there truly was 200,000+ iPad apps that are well designed, why does my iPad only have a 84 of them? (And being broke has nothing to do with it ;))
Linux might have a ton of development support, but for me there isn't much to make me want to move to Linux other than to play around in the OS. Game support is worse than Mac and Mac isn't exactly great on videogames, though that looks to possibly change with Gamecenter and Apple's push in that regard. I would like Linux to become a third-strong contender, but as it is now its not much, yet.
In any case, its as I said. You want me to move over to Windows or Droid? Have the apps that make me want to move over to it. I am not strictly bound to Apple, especially as we're starting to see quality tablets and phones coming out. But for me, its apps that keep me opening and enjoying my devices :). (Though...lately gaming on iOS is starting to piss me off as it feels like nothing but a freemium scamming wasteland right now...and I'm afraid we'll see the same thing happen to Windows Phone in due course if it hasn't happened already)
King
This thread is getting a little broad but:
Apps on a phone, what I was saying is similar to what you at saying. Having millions of apps is all well and good but how many of those do you use day to day? I can count them on two hands probably. You probably haveva bigger list than me but I think all 3 of the platforms we have been discussing pretty much cover all the bases when it comes to the everyday user. Essential apps to me are what the average consumer would need. Mail, Facebook, Twitter, web browser, some sort of message app, Skype, photo apps, etc.
Linux game support has come along way in the last few years. Loads of current games work pretty well in WINE. You can play WoW and even Diablo 3 is working. Steam even works via WINE although a native Linux Steam app is on the way also. Ubuntu have recently done a deal with your favourite software house EA ;) and they have some of their titles in the Ubuntu software centre.
I've been a Linux user for many years so I am bias but you can't beat the catalog of free software available on the platform. A lot of it is of the quality of commercial software. It s a niche OS though, most people who use don't even know it because it's buried in their devices or it's running most of the servers on the Internet.
Dan, you don't "HAVE" to jailbrake your iPad...you CHOOSE to do something unethical.
Quote from: QuadShot on June 21, 2012, 07:27:32 AM
Dan, you don't "HAVE" to jailbrake your iPad...you CHOOSE to do something unethical.
Umm....what? According to US legislation, we are legally allowed to jailbreak our iPad/iPhone. Don't ask me to quote which law, but I know we can as Apple made a big fuss about it until the courts decided it was ok.
King
King, so flipping what? My POINT is that he said he HAD to jailbrake his iPad. But there is a difference between HAVE and CHOOSE. Surprised they didn't teach you that in college. And it's not like it's a big surprise about the possible limitations Apple devices may have. So why the flip would someone buy something, especially spending quite a bit of money on it, KNOWING it won't do what you want?????
Quote from: QuadShot on June 21, 2012, 09:00:00 AM
King, so flipping what? My POINT is that he said he HAD to jailbrake his iPad. But there is a difference between HAVE and CHOOSE. Surprised they didn't teach you that in college. And it's not like it's a big surprise about the possible limitations Apple devices may have. So why the flip would someone buy something, especially spending quite a bit of money on it, KNOWING it won't do what you want?????
My question is why you say its unethical. As it really isn't unethical to jailbreak/root devices.
King
Oh man.
I HAD to jailbreak the iPad to get the functionality I wanted and I CHOSE to do it. There you go. Every device has limitations and part of the fun for me at least is pushing those boundaries.
Without this mindset we wouldn't get most of the innovation we have, especially in the computing world. You wouldn't be holding a shiny iPad in your hand if not for this attitude and your TiVo or whatever set top box you got that runs LINUX wouldn't exist. :)
What a world it would be if we just accepted what we were given and told that's all you can do with it eh?
And yes I knew iPads were limited but they are simply have the best build and best software selection of any device available (at the moment) and that's why I went for one. When it gets superseded I'll weigh up my options.
Love a good dust up! :) Out of curiosity and ignorance about the term, jailbreaking means taking a device and installing software other then what it came with to do functions it wasn't designed to do, is that correct?
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 10:01:05 AM
Love a good dust up! :) Out of curiosity and ignorance about the term, jailbreaking means taking a device and installing software other then what it came with to do functions it wasn't designed to do, is that correct?
Just about yes, basically jailbreaking is installing a 3rd party OS on a locked down device (originally it meant only Apple devices but really any locked down device) and expose all of its capabilities. Jailbreaking an iPhone or iPad allows you to access the file system and many other things that apple purposefully locks users from.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 10:01:05 AM
Love a good dust up! :) Out of curiosity and ignorance about the term, jailbreaking means taking a device and installing software other then what it came with to do functions it wasn't designed to do, is that correct?
Pretty much. Jailbreaking takes advantage of an exploit or security whole in the system to inject foreign software that then allows the ability to run unsigned code on said system.
Quote from: Dangelus on June 21, 2012, 10:10:22 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 10:01:05 AM
Love a good dust up! :) Out of curiosity and ignorance about the term, jailbreaking means taking a device and installing software other then what it came with to do functions it wasn't designed to do, is that correct?
Pretty much. Jailbreaking takes advantage of an exploit or security whole in the system to inject foreign software that then allows the ability to run unsigned code on said system.
And the obvious penealty for that is a voiding of the warranty, correct? And I assume you are not pirating software to accomplish this? If you purchase soemthing it's yours to do with as you wish. If what you do involves the use of intellectual property you didn't pay for then I agree it would be unethical and illegal. If not, I suppose it's akin to dropping a turbo charger in my car afetrmarket. It's my use choice and I accept that Jeep will not honor any warranties on the car. Sounds fair enough.
Quote from: billybob476 on June 21, 2012, 10:06:42 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 10:01:05 AM
Love a good dust up! :) Out of curiosity and ignorance about the term, jailbreaking means taking a device and installing software other then what it came with to do functions it wasn't designed to do, is that correct?
Just about yes, basically jailbreaking is installing a 3rd party OS on a locked down device (originally it meant only Apple devices but really any locked down device) and expose all of its capabilities. Jailbreaking an iPhone or iPad allows you to access the file system and many other things that apple purposefully locks users from.
OK, that's more clear as well. Making alterations to a devices functionality doesn't seem like a bad thing as long as it's not done using hardware or software that was aquired without compensation.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 10:14:48 AM
Quote from: Dangelus on June 21, 2012, 10:10:22 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 10:01:05 AM
Love a good dust up! :) Out of curiosity and ignorance about the term, jailbreaking means taking a device and installing software other then what it came with to do functions it wasn't designed to do, is that correct?
Pretty much. Jailbreaking takes advantage of an exploit or security whole in the system to inject foreign software that then allows the ability to run unsigned code on said system.
And the obvious penealty for that is a voiding of the warranty, correct? And I assume you are not pirating software to accomplish this? If you purchase soemthing it's yours to do with as you wish. If what you do involves the use of intellectual property you didn't pay for then I agree it would be unethical and illegal. If not, I suppose it's akin to dropping a turbo charger in my car afetrmarket. It's my use choice and I accept that Jeep will not honor any warranties on the car. Sounds fair enough.
Spot on Bryan. That's hacking your car in the true sense of the word! :)
Off course a lot of people do it to pirate. It is unfortunate side effect of opening up the system.
In fact, the Cydia store (the jailbreak app store) only includes 3rd party apps submitted by developers. A lot are free but they also have a payment system in place for paid apps. A great way to support these developers. The founder of the store will not even accept apps into his repository that facilitate piracy never mind pirate apps.
As for warranty issues, not really an issue because you can reverse the process very easily.
Droid, Xbox, PS3, and I think Blackberry devices are also jailbroken/rooted as well. It is a common practice and not intended for piracy, but unfortunately not everyone follows the no-piracy bit.
A lot of features from iOS4 and iOS5 actually came from the jailbreaking community. The whole "swipe to unlock directly to an app via the lock screen notifications" is from a developer in the jailbreak community who was hired on to Apple before iOS5's release. So really, it's not a bad thing and has lead to advancements in iOS.
King
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 21, 2012, 11:10:09 AM
Droid, Xbox, PS3, and I think Blackberry devices are also jailbroken/rooted as well. It is a common practice and not intended for piracy, but unfortunately not everyone follows the no-piracy bit.
A lot of features from iOS4 and iOS5 actually came from the jailbreaking community. The whole "swipe to unlock directly to an app via the lock screen notifications" is from a developer in the jailbreak community who was hired on to Apple before iOS5's release. So really, it's not a bad thing and has lead to advancements in iOS.
King
But jailbreaking a device doesn't alter ones ability to pirate/steal or not, right? Perhaps it provides a higher level of functionality to facilitate pracy/stealing, but that's the users choice, correct?
I still agree with Al and have a zero tolerence policy towards piracy and I also get bent when people try and justify it.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 11:15:14 AM
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 21, 2012, 11:10:09 AM
Droid, Xbox, PS3, and I think Blackberry devices are also jailbroken/rooted as well. It is a common practice and not intended for piracy, but unfortunately not everyone follows the no-piracy bit.
A lot of features from iOS4 and iOS5 actually came from the jailbreaking community. The whole "swipe to unlock directly to an app via the lock screen notifications" is from a developer in the jailbreak community who was hired on to Apple before iOS5's release. So really, it's not a bad thing and has lead to advancements in iOS.
King
But jailbreaking a device doesn't alter ones ability to pirate/steal or not, right? Perhaps it provides a higher level of functionality to facilitate pracy/stealing, but that's the users choice, correct?
I still agree with Al and have a zero tolerence policy towards piracy and I also get bent when people try and justify it.
Yes, it is the users choice to go out and pirate. If you jailbroke your device right now and did nothing else, you still can't pirate software from the App Store. You have to find the correct settings and programs on the web in order to facilitate pirating software, but it is discouraged and not supported by the Cydia store which handles the mods for jailbreakers.
I jailbroke my devices for some of the cool features jailbreakers can get that isn't allowed by Apple at this time. For example, there is software called NCsettings that puts a bar of widgets in the notification menu that lets you turn on/off certain things like wifi, Bluetooth, airplane mode, etc. this means I don't have to go to the settings app all the time, its right there with a swipe.
King
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 11:15:14 AM
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on June 21, 2012, 11:10:09 AM
Droid, Xbox, PS3, and I think Blackberry devices are also jailbroken/rooted as well. It is a common practice and not intended for piracy, but unfortunately not everyone follows the no-piracy bit.
A lot of features from iOS4 and iOS5 actually came from the jailbreaking community. The whole "swipe to unlock directly to an app via the lock screen notifications" is from a developer in the jailbreak community who was hired on to Apple before iOS5's release. So really, it's not a bad thing and has lead to advancements in iOS.
King
But jailbreaking a device doesn't alter ones ability to pirate/steal or not, right? Perhaps it provides a higher level of functionality to facilitate pracy/stealing, but that's the users choice, correct?
I still agree with Al and have a zero tolerence policy towards piracy and I also get bent when people try and justify it.
Well it alters ones ability to pirate in the sense that you can't pirate unless on iOS unless you're jailbroken, but yes it is the users choice and no different to it being your choice whether you break the law by shoplifting or paying for your stuff in a store.
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 10:14:48 AM
Quote from: Dangelus on June 21, 2012, 10:10:22 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on June 21, 2012, 10:01:05 AM
Love a good dust up! :) Out of curiosity and ignorance about the term, jailbreaking means taking a device and installing software other then what it came with to do functions it wasn't designed to do, is that correct?
Pretty much. Jailbreaking takes advantage of an exploit or security whole in the system to inject foreign software that then allows the ability to run unsigned code on said system.
And the obvious penealty for that is a voiding of the warranty, correct? And I assume you are not pirating software to accomplish this? If you purchase soemthing it's yours to do with as you wish. If what you do involves the use of intellectual property you didn't pay for then I agree it would be unethical and illegal. If not, I suppose it's akin to dropping a turbo charger in my car afetrmarket. It's my use choice and I accept that Jeep will not honor any warranties on the car. Sounds fair enough.
In a nutshell, jailbreaking is allowing you to use apps that Apple doesn't get a cut of the sales for.
I'm amused by jailbreaking because when the ruling came down that you can't force someone to use only your stuff came down and made jailbreaking legal, Apple was a bit upset by it. The voiding of the warranty was their last ditch effort to keep people in the Itunes store eco system.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to use something you paid for in the manner that you want to use it in.