Podcast # 344 - "Forbidden Planet"

[Dangelus]

Glad you guys are enjoying this one.  If you have never seen the movie, remember I have it in the Fun Stuff streaming player right now too.

Out of curiosity do you have any plans to move away from Flash in the Fun Stuff streaming player at any point? This is an Apple / iOS much lovin' forum after all ;)

Plans for it - yes.  Just need the time to work out the details.  It's more complicated than just converting it to an iOS friendly format.

That's great news :)

[Vartok]

Rico, I really enjoyed your FP podcast yesterday and today.  I watched FP on video about a year ago, but always love to rewatch with fresh insight and bits to look for after listening to your comments - so now will just have to watch it again for greater enjoyment.

Listening to the podcast felt as comfortable as wearing an old pair of shoes, relaxing, interesting, and fun.  You've really got the formula down!  Also enjoyed Darmok's input on early electronic music and Mina's firsthand reports from Vegas.  Great job guys!

V

[Poodyglitz]

V,

Glad you liked the emusic history.

What I meant to mention was that the Novachord was essentially a glorified organ, with a limited timbre palette. The synthesizers of the 50's sought to generate a much wider palette of sounds, which is why they (the sounds) had to be recorded individually onto tape and spliced together. Many of those primitive machines filled a room and some had very, very elementary sequencers (just a few notes). It took a while to create the sounds (in the case of the Barrons, Louis built the circuits, which would burn out quickly and Bebe composed from the recorded tape segments). After transistor technology took hold, people like Hugh LeCaine in Canada and Robert Moog were able to figure out the monophonic (one note at a time) voltage control keyboard. People like Walter Carlos painstakingly recorded each note and overdubbed using 4-, 8-, then 16-track tape recorders, often having to account for signal loss from overdubbing recorded tracks with a new live track. These were the days when noise reduction technology ruled.

Then, technology progressed to the point where polyphonic (multiple notes at a time) analog synthesizers could exist in the early 70's. By the late 70's digital technology was commercialized once computer technology became sophisticated enough and affordable. Different flavors of algorithmic synths and samplers hit the market with a vengeance. Now, we have synthesizers (and computer-based emulators) that can give us the best of modern digital and classic analog sounds.

We've come quite a long way, baby.

For our friends to the North, I believe some of the early Hugh LeCaine equipment is in a museum in Ottowa.

[ricdude]

@Darmok: somewhere I have a double album of music realized on the RCA Mark II that lived at Princeton(?). Amazing the amount of effort that went into those pieces. I always had a soft spot for Milton Babbitt - his works tend to remind me of a pinball arcade.

I think it's funny when modern electronic musicians refer to "loops", typically 4 or 8 bars of percussion, intended to be repeated as the backing of a song. I'm pretty sure none of them have spliced a reel to reel tape into a loop and routed it around several mic stands scattered around a classroom for the effect...

[Poodyglitz]

@ricdude: Wow. That's cool!

Yeah, it's weird to think that in order to do that kind of music, you needed credentials, a hefty grant and institutional resources. As far as I'm concerned, you don't understand delay until you've done it with tape on a 2-track machine. :-)

Actually, what I know about sound I learned at the McGilll EMS on a Moog Mark II and ARP 2600. On the Moog, every sound had to be created with patchcords from scratch. Got to play an early Hugh LeCaine pre-Mellotron tape contraption — a loop of tape for each note. There was also a primitive polyphonic keyboard that had one oscillator that was four octaves too high. If we couldn't avoid the key while playing, we'd get a seemingly high-pitched out of place note.

Babbitt was great! So was Morton Subotnick ("Silver Apples of the Moon", baby!). The Cologne and Columbia Princeton stuff was unique. Charles Dodge did a really cool piece with trumpet and early computer synthesis on tape. Ah, tnose were the days!

Cool that someone here knows this stuff. Did you study, or are you an eclectic music lover?

Here, take a walk down memory lane:

http://youtu.be/PPlbXl81Rs0 (Just found that there's a documentary on YouTube. Hmmm...)

http://youtu.be/dpbrXlnZMRg

http://youtu.be/fWKDsfARXMc (This one's for the girl geeks; I recently found out about Laurie Spiegel)

http://youtu.be/NDX_CS3NsTk (Then there's Delia Derbyshire)

http://youtu.be/I-e_TCqb4qQ

[Poodyglitz]

Don't want to get too off-topic, but this will give folks an idea of how people tried to achieve polyphony before digital technology. The Mellotron took the tape loop concept and applied it to what became a classic keyboard instrument. "Strawberry Fields Forever" is just one classic song that used the Mellotron. It predates sampling technology by quite a bit of time. The sounds were on really large tape cartridges. If you wanted a different sound, you had to change the tape module (don't let the promotional film fool you, this was NOT a computer). But it was a cool way to leverage the technology of the time to fashion a really compelling musical instrument.

http://youtu.be/yrXtmKGkSa4

[davekill]

Darmok thanks for sharing these vids! I think every sci-fi fan has a special place in their heart for electronic music.
Is that you narrating the first one "Magic Music? Great voice over.
Laurie Spiegel's sound machine looks like it's about as easy as spinning plates to play - and it's a portable.

[Poodyglitz]

@davekill: Not me narrating. :-)

Laurie Spiegel's Concerto Generator is a very early digital synthesizer built at Bell Labs. Bell did some serious research back in the day and came up with some really novel stuff. Charles Dodge did some stuff at Bell Labs (his Speech Songs, I believe). In "Any Resemblance Is Purely Coincidental for computer-synthesized sound", he took old Enrique Caruso and manipulated it in the computer. Caruso was made to laugh and all manner of interesting things.

http://www.allmusic.com/album/dodge-any-resemblance-is-purely-coincidental-w22238

[WillEagle]

Great podcast! I have never seen this whole movie. I have only seen parts of it here and there. After hearing this cast It is one I really want to watch all the way through! I was hoping this was on netflix. I know you have it on here but my pc is old and wouldn't play it very well.
I also enjoyed all the comments and liked hearing about the cons. I had seen something on here about what happened to Kenny but was bummed when he talked about it on his comment, but liked his positive outlook on his whole weekend.

[ricdude]

@Darmok: I'm a guitar player with a fascination for "how we got here".  My dad had some Babbitt on a 14 record set from his college music appreciation class.  I stumbled on the Columbia/Princeton set in the library, and recognized the name on it.  I started sequencing on an Atari 800 in the early '80s, experimenting with tape effects on my dad's reel to reel, recording "sound on sound" with a two deck boom box, and quickly graduated to a cheap home 4 track.  Now, I use a laptop with DAW software, and all kinds of "virtual" instruments, including an entire virtual orchestra.  Lots of fun.

I love the anachronisms that persist throughout modern music techology: Face it, it's been a long time since anyone had to program a synthesizer with patch cords, yet we still refer to a particular synthesizer setup as a "patch". 

I'll have to check out your videos, they look cool!

[Vartok]

eMusic Selection: I don't have a large collection of electronic music, but one of my favorites is The Interstellar Suite by Amin Bhatia

from Wiki

Amin Bhatia (born 10 July 10 1961 London, England) is a recording artist, film and television music score composer and producer. In 1981 his compositions won the Roland Corporation International Synthesizer competition for two consecutive years. The judges included Oscar Peterson, synth veterans Robert Moog and Ralph Dyck, and Japanese artist Isao Tomita. The exposure led to projects with David Foster, Steve Porcaro and a solo album on Capitol Records Cinema label called "The Interstellar Suite" which launched his career in music for film and television.

Bhatia is known for lush orchestral work with contemporary influences. His early compositions were created strictly with analog keyboards and tape, combining and layering hundreds of electronic parts to achieve a warm orchestral sound that was not sampled from an orchestra.

You can listen to parts of the Suite on iTunes, and download it there or on CDBaby.

Highly recommended.

V

[Poodyglitz]

Thanks, V!

I'd never heard of him. Will definitely check him out.

[Poodyglitz]

@ricdude: You have a very cool musical background.

You wouldn't happen to live in or near New Jersey, would you?

[Meds]

Awesome podcast great review Rico, awesome comments from Mark & Phil really enjoyed those and I'm so glad you managed to get both convention reports into the show. :)

[Bryancd]

How cool is this! Last night Forbidden Planet was on in HD on SyFy! I watched the first 40min and recorded the rest. I didn't recall if ypou mentioned in the podcast, Rico, but the Doctor Ostro characetr was played by Warren Steven who was Rojan in the TOS episode "By Any Other Name". And boy, you are so right, the C-57 ship is like a Tardis!