Councilman spoke out for gay teens

[X]

My last thoughts in this. While what this Councilman did is great, it really should be the norm in our society.

[Bryancd]

Christianity isn't the only religion I have issues with, but when many of them are attempting to make it the default religion of the country, one must be more vigilant in their dealings with them.

Well, the United States was founded on the concept of freedom of religion, however, the founding fathers were very much practicing Christians and that influence is still around today. "In God We Trust.." and so on. So I would say that ship has sailed.

[Geekyfanboy]

Wow. This thread's taken a turn. Not sure I can read any more of it though. It's so far off topic...

How is it off topic when these are some of the core issues on why some of these kids are killing themselves? When we allow different to be thought of as wrong, that just gives the bullies far more ammo to use. I'm sorry that you can't ready any more of it, but think about the kids that have to live it.

What safe haven do they have when their faith is one of the very things that gives the bullies the power to hurt them? Do you think they find comfort in their faith when it's damning them to eternal suffering? It's really a lose/lose for them. Suffer in life or suffer in death, you are still going to suffer for who you are.

It's not a pretty thought, but it's true.

Ditto X.. I was going to apologize for taking it off topic but it really does go hand and hand with the topic.

[X]

Christianity isn't the only religion I have issues with, but when many of them are attempting to make it the default religion of the country, one must be more vigilant in their dealings with them.

Well, the United States was founded on the concept of freedom of religion, however, the founding fathers were very much practicing Christians and that influence is still around today. "In God We Trust.." and so on. So I would say that ship has sailed.

Actually, quite a few of the founding fathers were Agnostic or had problems with Christianity. Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin are well known examples of that. Hell the Jefferson Bible was one of those things created because of those differences.

Edit: I did a quick check and Jefferson was a Unitarian, but has some cool quotes about his views on faith. He felt himself pretty much a sect of one.

[Bryancd]

Yeah, but still a very much Christian majority and it's prevalent in all aspects of the US government even to is day.

[alanp]

I have to question something and I hope this doesn't sound dumb or any any way disrespectful, but in all these cases did the bullies know the kid was actually gay?

Heterosexual male kids tease each other all the time about being gay (when they really aren't) in order to get a rise out of each other.  When I was in high school they gave a kid a hard time about it, thinking he was straight because of his extremely conservative church he was devoted to.  It sort of became a running gag at school because no one really thought he was.  It wasn't until way after that he openly admitted he was gay (which we were surprised).  Looking back the kids at the time wanted to get a rise out of him, thinking he was straight but a little on the effeminate side.  I doubt he would have received some of the ribbing if they thought he was actually gay.

EDIT:

I mean, I don't believe the kids I went to school with were mean enough to pick on a kid for being gay knowing he really was.  I could be wrong.

[Geekyfanboy]

I have to question something and I hope this doesn't sound dumb or any any way disrespectful, but in all these cases did the bullies know the kid was actually gay?

Does it matter if they knew or not.. bottom line is these kids killed themselves because the bullies taunted them for being gay.

[X]

I have to question something and I hope this doesn't sound dumb or any any way disrespectful, but in all these cases did the bullies know the kid was actually gay?

Heterosexual male kids tease each other all the time about being gay (when they really aren't) in order to get a rise out of each other.  When I was in high school they gave a kid a hard time about it, thinking he was straight because of his extremely conservative church he was devoted to.  It sort of became a running gag at school because no one really thought he was.  It wasn't until way after that he openly admitted he was gay (which we were surprised).  Looking back the kids at the time wanted to get a rise out of him, thinking he was straight but a little on the effeminate side.  I doubt he would have received some of the ribbing if they thought he was actually gay.

EDIT:

I mean, I don't believe the kids I went to school with were mean enough to pick on a kid for being gay knowing he really was.  I could be wrong.

I think that you're giving kids a little too much credit. You've witnessed them trying to hurt someone by calling them gay like it's a crime. Why wouldn't they pick on an actual gay person? They are some how better than the jerks they are being in the first place?

If they are silly enough to think that gay is a way to hurt someone, imagine if they actually get to pick on a target that actually is?

[alanp]

Kenny, the bullies are absolutely 100% in the wrong for tormenting especially to that extent either way.  I personally find it a lot worse if they knowingly pick on a kid for being gay, Jewish, black, handicapped, or what ever the element is they are being bullied over when the element really is something that exists in their life and the bully knows it and does it out of cruelty to hurt the person.

X,  I wasn't trying to give them credit. I went to a really small school in rural Oklahoma, not to much trouble really happened.  When I say small we had a graduating class of around 13. I was only speaking about the kids I went to school with.  My school really wasn't mean.  Kids being kids said and did things to get a laugh out of other kids and not to be viscous to the kid who was the butt of the joking.  Heterosexual adolescent males call each other gay all the time to get a rise out of them because they are straight and don't want anyone to think they were gay.  Even in college I left my cell phone laying around and one of my classmates as a practical joke sent everyone in my phone a text message to everyone saying, "What if I told you I was gay?"  Just to embarrass me as I'm not gay.  But had I been gay and the person knew it, and sent the text message to be cruel, that would be 100 times worse.  But I haven't seen personally witnessed high school aged boys pick on each other out of cruelty and that's why I was wondering.

[Blackride]

http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html
http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm
http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm

Well over 93% of America also says that they are some sort of Christian and less than 2% believe in no God.

[Bryancd]

I would be curious if in general teenage suicide rates have changed over the past 30 years. I have a feeling that this has been going on for some time but the reporting of it has changed, become more specific as to the motivation behind the suicide thanks to people having more online exposure of themselves, their personalities, their lifestyles. The case in Rutgers recently would have not had been possible without the internet. Perhaps the excessive sharing of information had lead to an increase in attacks and deaths or maybe the number is static but we are hearing about it more.

I have often in my life been though of as being gay. As I got older and actually new gay people, I took it as a compliment, they were all very kind and sharp dressers! :)

[Geekyfanboy]

http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html
http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm
http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm

Well over 93% of America also says that they are some sort of Christian and less than 2% believe in no God.

I seriously doubt that well over 93% of Americas believe that they are some sort of Christian.. that number is way to high.

[Geekyfanboy]

I have often in my life been though of as being gay. As I got older and actually new gay people, I took it as a compliment, they were all very kind and sharp dressers! :)

Awww thanks Bryan.. that's why I love ya.. very few people would actually be complimented by being called gay :)

Most get upset and are offended by it.. leaving me to believe that they think it's a "bad" thing.

[Blackride]

http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html
http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm
http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm

Well over 93% of America also says that they are some sort of Christian and less than 2% believe in no God.

I seriously doubt that well over 93% of Americas believe that they are some sort of Christian.. that number is way to high.

mis-type. It's 73%.

[X]

X,  I wasn't trying to give them credit. I went to a really small school in rural Oklahoma, not to much trouble really happened.  When I say small we had a graduating class of around 13. I was only speaking about the kids I went to school with.  My school really wasn't mean.  Kids being kids said and did things to get a laugh out of other kids and not to be viscous to the kid who was the butt of the joking.  Heterosexual adolescent males call each other gay all the time to get a rise out of them because they are straight and don't want anyone to think they were gay.  Even in college I left my cell phone laying around and one of my classmates as a practical joke sent everyone in my phone a text message to everyone saying, "What if I told you I was gay?"  Just to embarrass me as I'm not gay.  But had I been gay and the person knew it, and sent the text message to be cruel, that would be 100 times worse.  But I haven't seen personally witnessed high school aged boys pick on each other out of cruelty and that's why I was wondering.

Alan, I went to school in both Dell City and Edmond and had to deal with bullies trying to pick on me in Edmond because I was black. I've experienced that sort of cruelty right down the road from you. I was strong enough to fight my own battles and had friends to support me. Believe me that they pick on people to be cruel all over the country. Kids attack with that whole gay thing, not for fun, but because they think it will hurt their targets.