Councilman spoke out for gay teens

[Geekyfanboy]

Christ did speak on it. He said to follow God who said it. Christ and God are one not to be seperated either.

Can you tell me what he said exactly please??? I've always wanted to know what I'm supposedly sinning against. Thanks

[Blackride]

There have been so many articles and books written about this from a Christian,Judea and Islamic stand point. Here is some of the big hitters:

Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)

http://thebible.net/modules.php?name=Read&itemid=81&cat=9
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Church DoctrineHere is a sampling of official church positions on homosexuality from the three largest denominations in the United States:

Roman Catholic:

Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
From Catechism of the Catholic Church, (c) 1994, United States Catholic Conference, Inc., http://www.nccbuscc.org/catechism/text/index.htm

Southern Baptist:

We affirm God's plan for marriage and sexual intimacy - one man, and one woman, for life. Homosexuality is not a "valid alternative lifestyle." The Bible condemns it as sin. It is not, however, unforgivable sin. The same redemption available to all sinners is available to homosexuals. They, too, may become new creations in Christ.
From Position Statements, Copyright (c) 1999 - 2001, Executive Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, http://sbc.net/default.asp?url=position-statements.html

United Methodist:

Homosexual persons no less than heterosexual persons are individuals of sacred worth. All persons need the ministry and guidance of the church in their struggles for human fulfillment, as well as the spiritual and emotional care of a fellowship that enables reconciling relationships with God, with others, and with self. Although we do not condone the practice of homosexuality and consider this practice incompatible with Christian teaching, we affirm that God's grace is available to all. We implore families and churches not to reject or condemn their lesbian and gay members and friends. We commit ourselves to be in ministry for and with all persons.

Certain basic human rights and civil liberties are due all persons. We are committed to supporting those rights and liberties for homosexual persons. We see a clear issue of simple justice in protecting their rightful claims where they have shared material resources, pensions, guardian relationships, mutual powers of attorney, and other such lawful claims typically attendant to contractual relationships that involve shared contributions, responsibilities, and liabilities, and equal protection before the law. Moreover, we support efforts to stop violence and other forms of coercion against gays and lesbians. We also commit ourselves to social witness against the coercion and marginalization of former homosexuals.
From The Book of Discipline of The United Methodist Church--2000, ¶161G, 162H. Copyright 2000 by The United Methodist Publishing House, http://www.umc.org/abouttheumc/policy/

[KingIsaacLinksr]

ahh, thank you Blackride, I recognize that verse.  Just couldn't remember where it was.  

And while that may be written in the Bible, that doesn't give us the right to hurt those who are Gay.  We as Christians should welcome them with open arms into the Church.  Regardless of what sin they have committed because we have committed sins and we still do.  I do not like that many of the Churches have gotten uppity and will only accept those who claim to be pure, for they are lying as none of us are truly pure of sin.  Yet we conveniently look over this fact and persecute others.  The fact that the church punishes the younger generation for being different (geeks and such) truly pains me and it's why my generation isn't going to church. 

King

[Blackride]

King you are exactly right! We are not supposed to judge. That is for God to do. He warns us of that!

[X]

I still wish someone would point me to one of the mains stream religion's postion that they should hate gays.

It doesn't have to be a supported position to be followed by it's followers. I also don't know what you consider mainstream religion. Do you judge by members or what? Regardless, this isn't the place to debate that. Like it or not, there is a documented religious persecution of homosexuals and marginalizing of women by a wide variety of faiths. You can say that it's not your sect, but that doesn't mean that other sects are the same. Your views on Christ aside, others have other views of Christ. Hell, until recently, I didn't know that there were upwards of thirty different gods in some early sects of Christianity. In the end, people will pick and choose the parts they they want to follow and when they have enough people on their side, a new sect is formed.

There are religions to this day and in this country that places privilege on ethnicity. So, I'm not really surprised by some of the views on homosexuality.

The thing about most sects is that you're allowed to justify the actions with things like hate the sin not the sinner. Why hate at all? There is nothing preventing someone from going to heaven if they don't mess with other people's bedrooms. But they still do. If it's not out and out hate, it's bigotry disguised as law.

[Blackride]

If someone is doing something not suported by their faith then you can't blame the religious orginization. That's my whole point. My Church is not responsible for me if I go out and decide to do the opposite of what I was taught. You can't blame the Church for that. That's like blamming all of Islam for 9/11.

[X]

If someone is doing something not suported by their faith then you can't blame the religious orginization. That's my whole point. My Church is not responsible for me if I go out and decide to do the opposite of what I was taught. You can't blame the Church for that. That's like blamming all of Islam for 9/11.

But there are churches that do go out and preach hate. Like burning other holy text or showing up at soldier's funerals to put up signs about god hating fags. Granted these are only a few sects, but they are there and nothing from the Christian community is being done to reign them in. It might be a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, but the other apples aren't doing anything to stop it. They are fine with it being others and not seeing how it taints the image of the whole.

In the end it comes to this ... do homosexuals feel persecuted by Christianity? Many of them do. Does the Christian community reach out to them? So do, but most don't. Many are so focused on their lifestyles being "wrong" that they don't have to look in the mirror. Revisionist history works wonders with that.

Another thing you have to consider is that there are few Christian sects that have no problem with homosexuality. Most of them are teaching their children that being gay is wrong and a sin. Even if they aren't preaching hate, they sure as hell aren't preaching acceptance.

Kids are being taught that how they feel is wrong and dirty. You don't have to preach hate to cause hurt and homosexuality being wrong is supported by a majority of the Christian churches. You can't tell me that this doesn't screw with a kid's mind.

We were taught that thinking of a sin is just as sinful as committing a sin. Add that to kids having these thoughts about their own sexuality and you have children thinking that they are damned just because they exist. It might not be hate, but there is nothing at all helpful about it.

[Blackride]

Sin is not supposed to be easy. It's why Jesus lived a perfect life and died for our's. If we are going to tag a whole group because of a small minority of act taken by groups then there is nothing I can say. Like I said, it's why I don't blame Islam for 9/11 even though the CIA estimates that 200 million people live under extreme Islam doctrines. It down right wrong.

Clearly you have strong opinions on Christianity so no need for me to argue it any further.

[Geekyfanboy]

Thank you X that was very well said.

[Geekyfanboy]

Sin is not supposed to be easy. It's why Jesus lived a perfect life and died for our's. If we are going to tag a whole group because of a small minority of act taken by groups then there is nothing I can say. Like I said, it's why I don't blame Islam for 9/11 even though the CIA estimates that 200 million people live under extreme Islam doctrines. It down right wrong.

Clearly you have strong opinions on Christianity so no need for me to argue it any further.

And just for the record.. I never said all religious institutes/groups/ or people are like that..

[Blackride]

Sin is not supposed to be easy. It's why Jesus lived a perfect life and died for our's. If we are going to tag a whole group because of a small minority of act taken by groups then there is nothing I can say. Like I said, it's why I don't blame Islam for 9/11 even though the CIA estimates that 200 million people live under extreme Islam doctrines. It down right wrong.

Clearly you have strong opinions on Christianity so no need for me to argue it any further.

And just for the record.. I never said all religious institutes/groups/ or people are like that..

I know you didn't man. It's just sad to me when people go around calling themselves Christian and not living by it. I think that's what you are seeing.

[X]

Sin is not supposed to be easy. It's why Jesus lived a perfect life and died for our's. If we are going to tag a whole group because of a small minority of act taken by groups then there is nothing I can say. Like I said, it's why I don't blame Islam for 9/11 even though the CIA estimates that 200 million people live under extreme Islam doctrines. It down right wrong.

Clearly you have strong opinions on Christianity so no need for me to argue it any further.

I have strong opinions on everything from religion to toothpaste. Christianity isn't the only religion I have issues with, but when many of them are attempting to make it the default religion of the country, one must be more vigilant in their dealings with them. I really wouldn't want one of the burn the gay sinner sects to become the official voice of the country. I wouldn't want ANY religion to become the voice of the country or have ANY say in how the government works, but that's a pipe dream. Too many politicians regardless of the supposed separation of Church and State use their very religion to get them elected into power. They do this on the promise that they will use that religion's teachings to shape the country. Something that slaps church and state in the face, but something we obviously allow and say little about ... especially when it's when someone's own faith is behind those pushes.

[Feathers]

Wow. This thread's taken a turn. Not sure I can read any more of it though. It's so far off topic...

[Blackride]

Wow. This thread's taken a turn. Not sure I can read any more of it though. It's so far off topic...

That's why I stopped.

[X]

Wow. This thread's taken a turn. Not sure I can read any more of it though. It's so far off topic...

How is it off topic when these are some of the core issues on why some of these kids are killing themselves? When we allow different to be thought of as wrong, that just gives the bullies far more ammo to use. I'm sorry that you can't ready any more of it, but think about the kids that have to live it.

What safe haven do they have when their faith is one of the very things that gives the bullies the power to hurt them? Do you think they find comfort in their faith when it's damning them to eternal suffering? It's really a lose/lose for them. Suffer in life or suffer in death, you are still going to suffer for who you are.

It's not a pretty thought, but it's true.