Superman Reboot (Man of Steel)

[X]

All right, Superfans, answer me this...

[spoiler]What's with all the fan rage over Superman killing Zod. He threw Zod down a bottomless chasm in Superman 2 and no one seemed to care.[/spoiler]

Even in the comics, he's done the same. People have ideas that are not actually grounded in reality.

[Rico]

Well, in general....

[spoiler]Both Superman and Batman do not kill.  It's just not something they do and they avoid it at all costs.  Even for the nutjobs like Zod and the Joker.  So, to have Superman snap Zod's neck was really a pretty big move.  Yes, he has killed before but again it's something very hard for him to do from a character stand point.  It really is hard for him.  I'd love to see in the next film Superman/Clark be a little haunted by this act of killing Zod.  But I think the film made it work and it didn't bother me as a fan of the character.[/spoiler]

[Bryancd]

OK, I understand that in the abstract but the fact is...

[spoiler]In Superman 2 not only does he kill Zod but the the big guy jumps, can't fly, and falls to his death and Lois punches the chick and she falls to her death and the scene is played for laughs. Yet there is zero outrage back in 1980 or sonce and the film is well loved. It's so profoundly hypocritical is absurd.[/spoiler]

[Rico]

This is why I think....

[spoiler]It's much more visceral and real in the new film when Superman snaps Zod's neck and then screams out in anguish.  Falling into that weird mist junk in Superman 2 isn't nearly as powerful or dramatic.  Are we even sure they died in Superman 2?[/spoiler]

[Dangelus]

I think

[spoiler] is ambiguous if they actually die in the Lester cut of the movie because in the original Donner cut isn't there a scene at the end where they are arrested then Superman blows up the fortress? Its been a while since I watched it.[/spoiler]

[Bryancd]

I think

[spoiler] is ambiguous if they actually die in the Lester cut of the movie because in the original Donner cut isn't there a scene at the end where they are arrested then Superman blows up the fortress? Its been a while since I watched it.[/spoiler]

Well, it wasn't ambiguous to me as a kid watching it and I don't recall there being any confusion as to what occured.

[Jobydrone]

[spoiler]I was wondering why he screamed in anguish about breaking Zod's neck but didn't seem to have any problem with causing the rest of the Kyptonians get sucked up into a singularity.[/spoiler]  Overall though I thought the ending was really well done, moving, and emotional.

[Dangelus]

I think

[spoiler] is ambiguous if they actually die in the Lester cut of the movie because in the original Donner cut isn't there a scene at the end where they are arrested then Superman blows up the fortress? Its been a while since I watched it.[/spoiler]

Well, it wasn't ambiguous to me as a kid watching it and I don't recall there being any confusion as to what occured.

Perhaps yes back then it wasn't and I agree the Lester cut does seem to portray this. Just found it interesting that it wasn't the original intention.

[Bryancd]

Look..

[spoiler]He killed some super powered very bad folks who were going to destroy Earth. He didn't seem to do so in a cavalier, dismissive way. I would suggest the end of Superman 2 was handled much more casually. Yet everyone keeps trotting out this trope that Superman doesn't kill and yet he does in these instances.[/spoiler]

[Bryancd]

I think

[spoiler] is ambiguous if they actually die in the Lester cut of the movie because in the original Donner cut isn't there a scene at the end where they are arrested then Superman blows up the fortress? Its been a while since I watched it.[/spoiler]

Well, it wasn't ambiguous to me as a kid watching it and I don't recall there being any confusion as to what occured.

Perhaps yes back then it wasn't and I agree the Lester cut does seem to portray this. Just found it interesting that it want the original intention.

From what I understand it ends the same way in the original comics, so this canon goes way back.

[Dangelus]

I get what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing with you. I guess people have their own idea of who Superman is and it doesn't always match up to canon.

[Bryancd]

I get what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing with you. I guess people have their own idea of who Superman is and it doesn't always match up to canon.

Yeah, and i don't take exception witrh that perception, I like my Superman pure and above al the ugliness. It just seems to be an over reaction likely driven by the fact that 24 years since Superman 2 people can hop on the internet and have thei fanboy rage read.

[Geekyfanboy]

I get what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing with you. I guess people have their own idea of who Superman is and it doesn't always match up to canon.

Yeah, and i don't take exception witrh that perception, I like my Superman pure and above al the ugliness. It just seems to be an over reaction likely driven by the fact that 24 years since Superman 2 people can hop on the internet and have thei fanboy rage read.

[spoiler]I'm with you Bryan.. don't understand why folks are flipping out over this death, like he's never killed before.. I'm more dismayed at all the people he helped kill while battling Zod in the middle of Metropolis. How many buildings did they demolish?  I feel like Superman would have tried to get Zod away from the already decimated area[/spoiler]

[ChrisMC]

I get what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing with you. I guess people have their own idea of who Superman is and it doesn't always match up to canon.

Well, I would agree, but [spoiler]Having tried to wrangle my kids when they are being surly in public and move them somewhere out of the way, it doesn't always work out with out some destruction. And Zod is a superpowered guy who's just lost his genetically programmed purpose and was throwing a big-ass tantrum. He was going to kill and kill. And people bitching about Supes killing Zod 'being un-Supermanlike' gloss over SM2 when he let all 3 of the Phantom Zone criminals fall to a bloody death, hell he laughed when Lois punched Ursa to her death. In this one, he was completely AGONIZED about killing Zod and the last vestige of his race.[/spoiler]

Yeah, and i don't take exception witrh that perception, I like my Superman pure and above al the ugliness. It just seems to be an over reaction likely driven by the fact that 24 years since Superman 2 people can hop on the internet and have thei fanboy rage read.

[spoiler]I'm with you Bryan.. don't understand why folks are flipping out over this death, like he's never killed before.. I'm more dismayed at all the people he helped kill while battling Zod in the middle of Metropolis. How many buildings did they demolish?  I feel like Superman would have tried to get Zod away from the already decimated area[/spoiler]

Well, I would agree, but [spoiler]Having tried to wrangle my kids when they are being surly in public and move them somewhere out of the way, it doesn't always work out with out some destruction. And Zod is a superpowered guy who's just lost his genetically programmed purpose and was throwing a big-ass tantrum. He was going to kill and kill. And people bitching about Supes killing Zod 'being un-Supermanlike' gloss over SM2 when he let all 3 of the Phantom Zone criminals fall to a bloody death, hell he laughed when Lois punched Ursa to her death. In this one, he was completely AGONIZED about killing Zod and the last vestige of his race.[/spoiler]

[Bryancd]

I get what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing with you. I guess people have their own idea of who Superman is and it doesn't always match up to canon.

Well, I would agree, but [spoiler]Having tried to wrangle my kids when they are being surly in public and move them somewhere out of the way, it doesn't always work out with out some destruction. And Zod is a superpowered guy who's just lost his genetically programmed purpose and was throwing a big-ass tantrum. He was going to kill and kill. And people bitching about Supes killing Zod 'being un-Supermanlike' gloss over SM2 when he let all 3 of the Phantom Zone criminals fall to a bloody death, hell he laughed when Lois punched Ursa to her death. In this one, he was completely AGONIZED about killing Zod and the last vestige of his race.[/spoiler]

Yeah, and i don't take exception witrh that perception, I like my Superman pure and above al the ugliness. It just seems to be an over reaction likely driven by the fact that 24 years since Superman 2 people can hop on the internet and have thei fanboy rage read.

[spoiler]I'm with you Bryan.. don't understand why folks are flipping out over this death, like he's never killed before.. I'm more dismayed at all the people he helped kill while battling Zod in the middle of Metropolis. How many buildings did they demolish?  I feel like Superman would have tried to get Zod away from the already decimated area[/spoiler]

Well, I would agree, but [spoiler]Having tried to wrangle my kids when they are being surly in public and move them somewhere out of the way, it doesn't always work out with out some destruction. And Zod is a superpowered guy who's just lost his genetically programmed purpose and was throwing a big-ass tantrum. He was going to kill and kill. And people bitching about Supes killing Zod 'being un-Supermanlike' gloss over SM2 when he let all 3 of the Phantom Zone criminals fall to a bloody death, hell he laughed when Lois punched Ursa to her death. In this one, he was completely AGONIZED about killing Zod and the last vestige of his race.[/spoiler]

Dude, I have been saying that for the last 2 pages. :)