Health Insurance

[Blackride]

Yeah, health insurance is a huge mess. Jamie and I are lucky in so far as we both have group options, we use mine, and have amazing coverage. I pay for the best available but within reason as we are both so healthy through United Health. I appreciate the efforts at health care reform debate we have had this past year, but the timing is really lousy. Business have no idea what their costs are going to be under the new plans passed by Congress so you know what they don't do? Hire people.

They know prices are going up. They know that much. Someone has to pay for it all.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

This I believe is one of the main reasons the economy hasn't recovered.  Businesses can't afford the overpriced (and now soon-to-be-forced) health care plans. 

Just ridiculous. 

King

[Feathers]

I'm going to regret asking this but...

Surely someone's got to pay? If it's not firms it's individuals or government or, I-don't-know-who-else.

Knowing that, does it really make any difference WHO pays? Surely it's a cost to business either in direct premiums or in employment costs so employees can pay the premiums/taxes (delete as applicable). I think I must be missing something in the arguement

(Equally, I don't want an arguement so if this takes anyone into combat mode, please ignore!)

[Blackride]

I'm going to regret asking this but...

Surely someone's got to pay? If it's not firms it's individuals or government or, I-don't-know-who-else.

Knowing that, does it really make any difference WHO pays? Surely it's a cost to business either in direct premiums or in employment costs so employees can pay the premiums/taxes (delete as applicable). I think I must be missing something in the arguement

(Equally, I don't want an arguement so if this takes anyone into combat mode, please ignore!)

Either way the employee takes the brunt of it. Business will only pass the cost down to it's employees or they could freeze hiring or worse to accomodate the increases. It's really not an argument. It's pretty much econ 101 imo. It's not a party thing at all. There is only so many ways this could go...

[Bryancd]

I'm going to regret asking this but...

Surely someone's got to pay? If it's not firms it's individuals or government or, I-don't-know-who-else.

Knowing that, does it really make any difference WHO pays? Surely it's a cost to business either in direct premiums or in employment costs so employees can pay the premiums/taxes (delete as applicable). I think I must be missing something in the arguement

(Equally, I don't want an arguement so if this takes anyone into combat mode, please ignore!)

Either way the employee takes the brunt of it. Business will only pass the cost down to it's employees or they could freeze hiring or worse to accomodate the increases. It's really not an argument. It's pretty much econ 101 imo. It's not a party thing at all. There is only so many ways this could go...

Yep, pretty much.

[Rico]

To me the issue isn't who pays the issue is why are we paying so much more these days?  Can someone explain to me how in the past this was fairly affordable to everyone that worked full time?  What really "grinds my gears" (to use a "Family Guy" phrase) is for literally decades money goes into some mysterious "fund" and you use very, very little.  And then, as you actually might start to need a little health care, they raise your rates, costs, etc.  It is a VERY BAD system.  Lynn and I and the kids have fortunately needed very little health care coverage and we have both worked for a long time.  I can only conclude that some group somewhere is lining their pockets pretty nicely (same is true for college costs).  And yes, I know costs go up.  But they shouldn't go up like this.  I feel this is quickly becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Some people can't afford it because costs are so high, so those left that can pay have to pay more and of course eventually they can't pay either.

- Ok -- rant off. 

[Blackride]

They are going up due to Obama Care. They have to now cover more people.

I work for a car ins company here in Cleveland so I know a bit about insurance unfortunately. Let me tell you that i am not proud of that. It's all about the risks that you are incurring. As a company takes on more risks or people the prices will go up. So with Obama care right now they are really forcing companies to take on more risk than in the past they would have. You can argue the politics of that but I am talking the business behind the decisions already made.

There is also the costs that states charge you for running insurance companies.

[Feathers]

To me the issue isn't who pays the issue is why are we paying so much more these days?  Can someone explain to me how in the past this was fairly affordable to everyone that worked full time?  What really "grinds my gears" (to use a "Family Guy" phrase) is for literally decades money goes into some mysterious "fund" and you use very, very little.  And then, as you actually might start to need a little health care, they raise your rates, costs, etc.  It is a VERY BAD system.  Lynn and I and the kids have fortunately needed very little health care coverage and we have both worked for a long time.  I can only conclude that some group somewhere is lining their pockets pretty nicely (same is true for college costs).  And yes, I know costs go up.  But they shouldn't go up like this.  I feel this is quickly becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Some people can't afford it because costs are so high, so those left that can pay have to pay more and of course eventually they can't pay either.

- Ok -- rant off.  

If that's the case, does that not make a 'taxation' type system like ours where everyone pays a defined contribution rate (related to income) and everyone benfits, better than what you have now?

(Again, no axe to grind, just trying to understand)

[Blackride]

To me the issue isn't who pays the issue is why are we paying so much more these days?  Can someone explain to me how in the past this was fairly affordable to everyone that worked full time?  What really "grinds my gears" (to use a "Family Guy" phrase) is for literally decades money goes into some mysterious "fund" and you use very, very little.  And then, as you actually might start to need a little health care, they raise your rates, costs, etc.  It is a VERY BAD system.  Lynn and I and the kids have fortunately needed very little health care coverage and we have both worked for a long time.  I can only conclude that some group somewhere is lining their pockets pretty nicely (same is true for college costs).  And yes, I know costs go up.  But they shouldn't go up like this.  I feel this is quickly becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Some people can't afford it because costs are so high, so those left that can pay have to pay more and of course eventually they can't pay either.

- Ok -- rant off. 

If that's the case, does that not make a 'taxation' type system like ours where everyone pays a defined contribution rate (related to income) and everyone benfits, better than what you have now?

(Again, no axe to grind, just trying to understand)

That get's into the issue if you feel national healh care is the right or wrong decsion. Choice in that model is lost and there can be other govermental issues with the govt controlling it. It's really depends on how you think that the goverment should be structured and how much power they should have.

[billybob476]

I guess living in the UK and Canada and growing up under a national health care program it's hard to imagine life without it.

[Feathers]

I guess living in the UK and Canada and growing up under a national health care program it's hard to imagine life without it.

That's it exactly for me. I'm just trying to get a handle on how it works but can never get past the fact that people with no money appear to have no choice at all.

Anyway, this is in danger of getting political and I don't want to get dragged into a discussion on a topic of which I have little to no clue so I'll stop now.

[Blackride]

Ha Ha. Political discussion is OK as long as it cival imo.

My issue with nation health care is that you take away individual rights from people. That is to either elect or not elect to pay for something. More personal control and choices is what I think we are about.

[billybob476]

I guess the question is who would NOT pay for basic health care? I mean, I have health insurance though work to supplement the gov't program but if I am wheeled into a hospital, I know I'm going to get the same care as anyone else.

[Meds]

I love our health care system ok I may be slightly biased and we gave to wait 6 weeks for a operation but at least i know if I get I'll my hospitals will take care of me. I pay tax which I don't notice because it's the norm.

[Rico]

Again, that wasn't my point.  I don't really care who pays for it.  I want to know why it costs so much more in the last 5-10 years??  This isn't an "Obama thing."  This has been happening for awhile now.  What I usually hear is that those paying for health care are covering for people that don't have care or good coverage.  Well, maybe we should all just drop our health care coverage if you can get care somehow anyway?  Maybe we should all sort of go on strike with no health care?  Mainly a joke, but I think you get my meaning.  It can't continue like this.  Even in a national health care system, those that work, pay taxes, etc. are covering those that don't.  I just don't see any kind of return on the literally tens of thousands of dollars that Lynn, myself and the places we have worked for have sunk into paying for our health care in our working lives.  I could say the same thing about auto insurance too.  But don't get me started on that one too.  LOL!