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Author Topic: Health Insurance  (Read 4904 times)

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Offline Geekyfanboy

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2010, 01:13:52 PM »
I've always been in support of a socialized healthcare system ala Canada and Europe. I mean we pay taxes for unemployment and social security, why not add healthcare. Healthcare should available to all .. not just those who can afford it.

Offline moyer777

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2010, 01:28:22 PM »
I think we worked that one out ;)

What I don't understand is everyone goes on about choice but I don't see one. It sounds like all get treated and those with money cover the costs. How is that a choice and why is it different to what we have?

Well we don't get treated the same.   I have low cost insurance with a HUGE deductible.  If anything goes wrong, I pay for the 1st $4000 out of my pocket.  So, I'm basically gambling.  If something major happens to me, then my insurance kicks in, 80 percent, I am responsible for the deductible and 20 percent of the rest of it.  Now, If I want a procedure done by a great doctor who is a specialist, honestly, I can't afford that, so I have to settle for a clinic or sub standard place if I don't want to owe the rest of my life.  My insurance won't accept some doctors, and won't approve of some medications, etc.  So it's all so confusing. 

This is why I am eating better, taking my diabetes meds and walking more, so that I don't have to rely on all of this stuff.  ugh.  Eventually if I keep at it I won't be insulin dependant anymore.  (I hope)

I don't sound frustrated do I?  ;)


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Offline Blackride

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2010, 03:06:45 PM »
I've always been in support of a socialized healthcare system ala Canada and Europe. I mean we pay taxes for unemployment and social security, why not add healthcare. Healthcare should available to all .. not just those who can afford it.

I am sure Kenny knows I disagree with him on this :) . Unemployment is temporary and social security is bankrupt and not going to be around for most of us. Unfortunately I don't think either one of those are opinion. Now on to my opinion.....

The real problem that socialized medicine has it it takes away choice and the great service we get. The current bill forces everyone to have health care, so even if you don't want it you are going to be forced to pay for it.
Ripley: Ash. Any suggestions from you or Mother?
Ash: No, we're still collating.
Ripley: [Laughing in disbelief] You're what? You're still collating? I find that hard to believe.

Offline Geekyfanboy

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2010, 03:10:20 PM »
The real problem that socialized medicine has it it takes away choice and the great service we get.

Great service if you can afford it.. for us who can't we take what we can. And are you saying that socialized medicine give bad service?

Offline Blackride

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2010, 03:53:05 PM »
The real problem that socialized medicine has it it takes away choice and the great service we get.

Great service if you can afford it.. for us who can't we take what we can. And are you saying that socialized medicine give bad service?


- Preventive care starts later in life. For example breast cancer exams start at 40 in America and 50 under socialized medicine.
- You will visist specialist less. Generalists will make more determiniations.
- Wait times to see a dr in the UK are much longer than in the US.

There are positives to it also:

- more after hours coverage
- More personal resonsiblity put on your health since you can't visit the dr as much
- Doctors paid per visit not treatment
- co-pays are cheaper for those that use them
Ripley: Ash. Any suggestions from you or Mother?
Ash: No, we're still collating.
Ripley: [Laughing in disbelief] You're what? You're still collating? I find that hard to believe.

Offline jedijeff

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2010, 03:54:07 PM »
I have to say living it Canada, it is nice to know that I don't have to worry about a bill if I have to go to the hospital or see the Doctor. I guess since I have always grown up with this system, I am used to it, and not sure if I could ever go to a system like in America. I sympathize with all the people struggling to afford health care, does seem like an unfortunate situation that basic coverage could be very costly. Tough issue for sure, as I can also see that the people who can afford good care, not wanting to give that up. I know at times here in Canada, people who need more care then what our basic coverage provides, might go to a private hospital. But that is usually for people who have an illness or disease, that requires a very specialized treatment, or highly experimental, and it is costly.

Offline Bryancd

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2010, 04:22:17 PM »
Keep in mind Jeff, that if you did live here, you would be subject to a lower tax structure and likely a higher wage, so the the additional cost is offset by additional income/lower taxes. Certainly health care needs to be provided to all Americans in some capacity. NO ONE is turned away at a hospital in this country if they don't have insurance. The classic model of private and public health care being available broke a long time ago for many of the reasons I posted previously to account for rising costs. My father was a doctor, a ear, nose, and throat surgeon. The advent of the modern health insurance system dramatically changed the quality of care in this country, in his opinion, for the worse. But it was inevitable. 350 million people and growing makes for a tough situation to manage.

Offline Bryancd

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2010, 04:25:06 PM »
The real problem that socialized medicine has it it takes away choice and the great service we get.

Great service if you can afford it.. for us who can't we take what we can. And are you saying that socialized medicine give bad service?

Not so much bad service Kenny as less competent service resulting in even higher costs. The medical field used to attract the best and the brightest in this country. Men and women who spent almost 1/3 of their lives in school to learn a trade with a high compensation and prestige. Socialized medicine does not provide the same model.

Offline Feathers

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2010, 01:59:26 AM »
I think quality of service is a valid concern. Despite the fact of the National Health Service, the concept of private medicine is still very much alive and kicking over here. The downside of access for all is having to 'wait your turn' - waiting lists for hospitals are a big political football.

The private options here, then, are not necessarily to get 'better' care but to jump the queue and get served quicker. The irony of this is that having paid all the taxes, you then pay again to get the treatment via a different route. I think the fact that it is perceivved as providing better facilities as well is more because it is funded by an insurance company and not the public purse. Government will NOT pay for a private room with plasma TV for everyone but insurance companies will and charge higher premiums as a result.

Whatever I say of public health over here, the system is still far from perfect.

I should also point out that I do have private cover through work. I haven't used it much but for what it covers, it covers in full (up to certain annual limits). There's no concept of my having to pay the first £XXX.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 02:01:55 AM by Feathers »

I know it's unnusual here but I don't have a podcast of my own.

Offline billybob476

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2010, 03:35:41 AM »
I'll agree that wait times for specialists can be long here and wait times for elective surgery can also be long. On a brighter note my uncle was able too see his doctor, then based on test results a cardiologist within the week and be in surgery yesterday for bypass surgery all within a very short time frame. 

My uncle's company currently has the unionized staff on lockout and has suspended their health coverage. Despite this he had no worries about how to cover the cost of his open heart surgery done at one of the best hospitals in the country. I'll pay higher taxes for that.

Offline Blackride

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2010, 05:29:38 AM »
I think quality of service is a valid concern. Despite the fact of the National Health Service, the concept of private medicine is still very much alive and kicking over here. The downside of access for all is having to 'wait your turn' - waiting lists for hospitals are a big political football.

The private options here, then, are not necessarily to get 'better' care but to jump the queue and get served quicker. The irony of this is that having paid all the taxes, you then pay again to get the treatment via a different route. I think the fact that it is perceivved as providing better facilities as well is more because it is funded by an insurance company and not the public purse. Government will NOT pay for a private room with plasma TV for everyone but insurance companies will and charge higher premiums as a result.

Whatever I say of public health over here, the system is still far from perfect.

I should also point out that I do have private cover through work. I haven't used it much but for what it covers, it covers in full (up to certain annual limits). There's no concept of my having to pay the first £XXX.

It's good to hear honest opinions from someone in the system. In America if you are for nationalized health all people do is say that's it's the best thing ever! There is very little objectivity to the debate imo.
Ripley: Ash. Any suggestions from you or Mother?
Ash: No, we're still collating.
Ripley: [Laughing in disbelief] You're what? You're still collating? I find that hard to believe.

Offline Feathers

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2010, 05:34:39 AM »
As I say, for emergency and priority care, the system works very well but to pretend that it is perfect in all respects....no.

I know it's unnusual here but I don't have a podcast of my own.

Offline Rico

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2010, 06:27:19 AM »
I'm going to diverge slightly from the topic.  I think the real crux of the problem with many things these days is people are being squeezed from every direction for money.  Everything costs more and more every day and there is no end in sight.  Health care is really putting a burden on many - no matter where the money comes from.  I long for the good old days when even one person working in a family could provide a pretty good lifestyle.  I can only conclude that corporate greed is a big part of all of this. 

One little side story.  I was at a drugstore several years ago getting a prescription for something and a little old lady was in front of me in line.  They brought her a small bottle of pills and rang her up and the price was something like $200.  She didn't have enough money so they actually counted out a few pills for her and sold her what she could afford.  I could hear her saying it was her heart medicine and she needed it.  I felt terrible and just thought what is wrong with this picture?

Offline Blackride

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2010, 06:42:10 AM »
One person can provide a good lifestyle for a family. The problem is that we Americans are so materialistic that you need multiple people to support that. I know multiple people in my area that only one person works in the family and provides a very nice life. Are they able to buy multiple flat screen TVs for the House, no , but they don't need that for happiness.

Increases in the costs of goods is not a phenomenon that is new to our generation. It's always been there.

Rico, Did you help her pay for the pills?
Ripley: Ash. Any suggestions from you or Mother?
Ash: No, we're still collating.
Ripley: [Laughing in disbelief] You're what? You're still collating? I find that hard to believe.

Offline Feathers

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Re: Health Insurance
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2010, 07:36:54 AM »
Taking people and corporations out of it for the moment, on the health side we also have the fact that medicine is getting more and more complicated (in terms of chemistry if nothing else).

We treat as routine things that used to be terminal and new conditions come under this umbrella all the time. But this only happens because the complexity of drugs etc increases and so do the associated costs.

When you then re-introduce corporate profit motives and high 'professional salaries' you can see where this is going.

(OK, I'm not a chemist so the talk of the costs of complex drugs is my understanding of matters. It may be incorrect...any chemists here? ;))

I know it's unnusual here but I don't have a podcast of my own.

 




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