iPhone 4G?

[Rico]

People do tend to be lemmings much of the time.  Many just flock with the rest of the people since they don't want to be left behind.  I do think it's a pretty nice product but it also has some weaknesses - just like most smart phones out there.  I just need a solid phone to make calls for right now and a quick text now and then.  And my Samsung is fine for that.  Plus it's cheap!  Anyway, just my thoughts.

[Bryancd]

Hype and mass hysteria could explain some initial success, however over the long haul, the quality of the product MUST be there otherwise it will loose it's consumer base. When the iPhone first came out, this argument was made by many here, that it was no better than anything else, whatever. Well, turns out people do feel it's better and they have flocked to it en mass. numbers don't lie. Same thing with the ipod when it cam out, same with the iPad. "In the know" techies can say the vast unwashed are clueless all they want, I laugh at that notion and their hubiris.

[Rico]

I don't really agree Bryan - for a few reasons.  One, many have become "locked into" Apple and their iPhone.  It's frankly both a pain to switch to another carrier/phone and not real easy.  Apple had the advantage because they got out of the gate first and that is a HUGE advantage.  We really have seen only a very short time span/cycle so far in the 'smart phone' market/era.

Let me give you an analogy using the car industry.  The big three sat on their rear ends for years thinking they were untouchable.  So their cars slipped in quality and continued to become more expensive, etc.  This allowed other companies to take advantage of this and hurt them badly.  It took years, but the playing field has swung each way now and I think we have some nice competition going in the making of cars.  I can attest to this after my recent run at driving just about everything in town.  And back on the smart phone market, I think Apple has done some smart things, but they have to continue to be smart and address real concerns and issues when they pop up.  Google and Android is not to be taken lightly.  I truly think in a few more years the smart phone market might look quite a bit different than it does now.

[X]

I'd argue that on the interface and UI fronts Apple has been quite innovative in recent years. The click wheel and multi touch come to mind. They aren't infallible by any means but you can't deny they have forced their competition to step up their game.

The click wheel has been out since the beginning and hasn't changed much. Also, to address what bryan said about adoption. When you have invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars in downloaded content, most of which can not be used on other systems without paying another fee for the DRM free content, it makes better finical sense to stick with an iproduct. This is why I own both a zune and an Ipod. I have paid for content with both and I'm not quite yet ready to toss that money down the drain.

As for innovation, take the zune for instance. It has both HD radio and wireless sync. Features that would have fit well on the ipod have yet to even be considered. iPod were cutting edge when they came out, but they have rested on their laurels.

So, yeah, I would question how someone can say the iPOD is still being innovative. Not to be mean, but what exactly have they done that was innovative with the iPOD in the last three years?

[billybob476]

Multi touch. I can't agree that the click wheel hasn't changed much. Any non-touch screen music player has a substandard clone of the click wheel, Zune included.

[Jobydrone]

How quickly we forget.  Ten years ago how many people would have even considered the possibility that they could someday carry their entire music collection around with them in their pocket?  Or have every issue of the Amazing Spiderman from 1964 to present day in beautiful full color display in their knapsack?  Or 50 of their favorite movies available at the touch of a button on a gorgeous display wherever they happen to be?

Not innovative?  Ten years ago all these possibilities were science fiction, friends.  And now Apple has made it all available to the masses, at a reasonable price. 

[X]

Actually, it's not about forgetting, but remembering the facts. Apple did not invent the portable music player, they came into the game several years after others had already began. As to the Spiderman issue, again Marvel has been putting out digital comics long before the ipod, ipad, and iphone hit the market. Ten years ago there were already digital comics and there were mp3 players before the ipod. Apple didn't create the industry. I will give credit where credit is due and say they did a good job with the itunes store. However everything that you give as proof of Apple's innovation was being done by others years ago. or more than a decade in the case of marvel's digital comics.

A year before the debut of the ipod, Creative dropped a 6gig mp3 player, so, not only was it considered possible, it was already possible before the release of the ipod.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the stuff you are talking about as being a pipe dream 10 years ago already existed in some form or another before the I revolution. Apple did make things easier on a lot of non tech savy people, but they did not create the revolution to digital.

[Bryancd]

Apple created an experience people wanted. END OF STORY. It matters not one bit who invented what, all that matters is who created the device that was intuitive, sexy, popular, that people actually wanted and were able to use right out of the box. Apple is the undisputed king of making technology actually WORK for people who don't car about HOW IT WORKS.  :wallbash:

[X]

Apple created an experience people wanted. END OF STORY. It matters not one bit who invented what, all that matters is who created the device that was intuitive, sexy, popular, that people actually wanted and were able to use right out of the box. Apple is the undisputed king of making technology actually WORK for people who don't car about HOW IT WORKS.  :wallbash:

I totally agree with you Bryan. Apple did do those things and they did them well. My disagreement was with Jobydrone on what was possible a decade ago. I also agree that no one has leveraged existing technology into such as sleek package as Apple has done.

My issue, first and foremost, is that I expected far more from apple. Mac SEs had features in the OS that were not standard in windows until Millenium or later. They were doing things 20 years ago that the PC only picked up a decade ago. When everyone was shouting the praises of windows 3.11, I had a custom Mac Desktop with all my alerts done in the voice of HAL.

When my friends were logging onto the BBSes at 300 bps, I was running at a then blazing 2400 bps mac modem. I guess I expect more from Apple than I do from other companies. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Apple, but when you bought an apple product 20 years ago, you paid more, but you also got far more than what was the standard at the time. For me, it seems that you are still paying more, but Apple is no longer decades, years, or even minutes ahead of it's nearest competition.

I am financially invested in the continued ownership of an i device because I have money invested in my iTunes purchases. I would just like to see Apple make something fantastic again. Not in the iPad is cool, but there are already things like it on the market, but in the way that it had people scratching their heads and spending half a decade or more to catch up to Apple.

Again, I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying Bryan, but it seems to me, that at some point in the past decade, Apple lost a step when it comes to creating things for the people that used to buy Apple products.

[Bryancd]

I totally agree with you Bryan. Apple did do those things and they did them well. My disagreement was with Jobydrone on what was possible a decade ago. I also agree that no one has leveraged existing technology into such as sleek package as Apple has done.

My issue, first and foremost, is that I expected far more from apple. Mac SEs had features in the OS that were not standard in windows until Millenium or later. They were doing things 20 years ago that the PC only picked up a decade ago. When everyone was shouting the praises of windows 3.11, I had a custom Mac Desktop with all my alerts done in the voice of HAL.

When my friends were logging onto the BBSes at 300 bps, I was running at a then blazing 2400 bps mac modem. I guess I expect more from Apple than I do from other companies. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Apple, but when you bought an apple product 20 years ago, you paid more, but you also got far more than what was the standard at the time. For me, it seems that you are still paying more, but Apple is no longer decades, years, or even minutes ahead of it's nearest competition.

I am financially invested in the continued ownership of an i device because I have money invested in my iTunes purchases. I would just like to see Apple make something fantastic again. Not in the iPad is cool, but there are already things like it on the market, but in the way that it had people scratching their heads and spending half a decade or more to catch up to Apple.

Again, I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying Bryan, but it seems to me, that at some point in the past decade, Apple lost a step when it comes to creating things for the people that used to buy Apple products.

See, now I don't understand anything you said in that 2nd and 3rd paragraph and that's the issue. To your sensibility, you see Apple making a product which has been either done before or is executed as well or even better, in your opinion. You can also build your own computer. I can't and don't want to. I want my technology to WORK. I have a job and a family and a sport I spend all my time with and I don't want to have a computer engineering degree to work my personal technology. It's supposed to be FUN and EASY and PRODUCTIVE. Herein lies the genius of what the company has done. The company could NEVER grow catering to the techno elite it sold machines to back in the late '80's and '90's. YOU ARE NOT THE TARGET CONSUMER ANYMORE. I am.

They recognize innovation isn't always being first or making a device loaded with the most advanced technology. That device sits on the shelves. Innovation and what Steve Jobs is targeting is making technology that regular people can actually use. The eco system of iPod, iTunes, iPad, iPhone, and Mac is seamless for the user. The applications and content they provide is EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLE, myself included, WANT. I could care less about the hardware, firmware, ports, blah, blah, blah. I just want it to have the EXPERIENCE be what I expect. And Apple delivers. The other Smartphones? Are they as good or better technically? Maybe but it doesn't matter, Apple provides the content experience. Rico is flat out wrong, the iPhone and the iPhone ecosystem will dominate this market globally for years to come.

So yes, I would consider that a fantastic innovation and application of technology.

[Jobydrone]

Actually, it's not about forgetting, but remembering the facts. Apple did not invent the portable music player, they came into the game several years after others had already began. As to the Spiderman issue, again Marvel has been putting out digital comics long before the ipod, ipad, and iphone hit the market. Ten years ago there were already digital comics and there were mp3 players before the ipod. Apple didn't create the industry. I will give credit where credit is due and say they did a good job with the itunes store. However everything that you give as proof of Apple's innovation was being done by others years ago. or more than a decade in the case of marvel's digital comics.

A year before the debut of the ipod, Creative dropped a 6gig mp3 player, so, not only was it considered possible, it was already possible before the release of the ipod.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the stuff you are talking about as being a pipe dream 10 years ago already existed in some form or another before the I revolution. Apple did make things easier on a lot of non tech savy people, but they did not create the revolution to digital.

well you're right about one thing, fact are facts, and the fact is my iPhone and ipad go everywhere with me now.  They are truly the convergence devices that I never knew I even wanted or needed until I had them, and ten years ago I certainly never conceived that such things could even be possible, with my trunk full of CDs, garbage bags full of cassette tapes, cabinets full of LPs, boxes and boxes of comics, and shelves full of VCR tapes and the beginnings of my DVD collection.   All my music, all my comics, all my communication (phone and email) and almost all my TV, movie, and Internet consumption is done on these two devices now.  And there's some pretty good gaming on them too.  Im really not sure what you think could or should be better about these devices that has disappointed you so much.  Ive found them both to be well worth their respective costs.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

I'm adding my :2cents,

I've been doing a lot of testing for my next phone.  While the droid has obvious Hardware niceness to it, the experience with it was just....just not there.  With just the basic apps on the phone, it was laggy.  How can a 1GHz processor be laggy on it's own home screen with only a couple apps on it??  The phone feels overlycomplicated and has a really funky UI for a phone.  I tried using apps on it and browsing the web and it just didn't do what I had hoped.  However, there is potential in the Droid, so maybe one day they'll finally figure it out. 

I've been using the iPod touch and just love it to death and I've come to the conclusion, same as Bryan, is that it is because of the experience of utalizing these devices.  The UI is simply and easy to use, apps are simple to add and sync, email is handled as well as could be asked for, and most of all it is fast, snappy and really good to look at too :P.  I said on Twitter a while ago that the iPod touch is the Tech gadget of the decade and I still stand behind that. 

I'm even contemplating switching to At&t so I can get the iPhone.  So what does that make me, a blind fanboy?  I don't think so.  I know the flaws and cracks these devices have.  (No flash, dictatorship on Apps/Music/etc)  Yet what they provide works for me just fine and I've learned to live with it's limitations.  I would rather have an enjoyed experience with what I have than a laggy and buggy experience that is often felt with other phones.  Heck, the Droid X actually failed to impress me because it shoves a lot into a device that looks like a giant brick.  No form and really untested function makes me wary of a device like that. 

I've enjoyed Apple's mobile devices hands down because they work, they are snappy in performance, they sync with iTunes and other programs well depending on the function and are just enjoyable to use.  No other device has worked so well for me in the past.  Now, I will also state that I do not like the Mac Books, sorry, but the Mac OS makes me scream when I use it =P.  Windows will hold me there for the time being. 

I hate the fact that people say I'm less for using Apple products.  It's just a Phone/Tablet.  I chose Apple because it works for me where nothing else has.  If that's a terrible thing, then so be it.  But at least I'm spending my $$ how I see fit.  It's not like anyone is actually forcing us to use these products. 

King

[X]

Actually, it's not about forgetting, but remembering the facts. Apple did not invent the portable music player, they came into the game several years after others had already began. As to the Spiderman issue, again Marvel has been putting out digital comics long before the ipod, ipad, and iphone hit the market. Ten years ago there were already digital comics and there were mp3 players before the ipod. Apple didn't create the industry. I will give credit where credit is due and say they did a good job with the itunes store. However everything that you give as proof of Apple's innovation was being done by others years ago. or more than a decade in the case of marvel's digital comics.

A year before the debut of the ipod, Creative dropped a 6gig mp3 player, so, not only was it considered possible, it was already possible before the release of the ipod.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the stuff you are talking about as being a pipe dream 10 years ago already existed in some form or another before the I revolution. Apple did make things easier on a lot of non tech savy people, but they did not create the revolution to digital.

well you're right about one thing, fact are facts, and the fact is my iPhone and ipad go everywhere with me now.  They are truly the convergence devices that I never knew I even wanted or needed until I had them, and ten years ago I certainly never conceived that such things could even be possible, with my trunk full of CDs, garbage bags full of cassette tapes, cabinets full of LPs, boxes and boxes of comics, and shelves full of VCR tapes and the beginnings of my DVD collection.   All my music, all my comics, all my communication (phone and email) and almost all my TV, movie, and Internet consumption is done on these two devices now.  And there's some pretty good gaming on them too.  Im really not sure what you think could or should be better about these devices that has disappointed you so much.  Ive found them both to be well worth their respective costs.

I think Bryan said it best in that Apple has moved to a new target market. I think part of that is due to a person's familiarity with technology. What you see as a good value, I see as extremely overpriced for what they do. I have always like my technology to give me options in things like memory storage and connections.

Like King said, I can see the good and the bad of the iDevices, but the difference is perspective. For me, the lack of a microSD slot is less about some limitation they can't over come and more about forcing you to by a new device for more memory.

Having tested and played with and iPAD, I would say that I love it as a device, but I don't love it at the current price point and lack of ability to add more memory without having to buy a new device. Is it a great device? Yeah, it is, but I don't think it's $500+ great. That's the same reason I don't buy a Kindle. Great device for what it does, but the price point quickly makes it less great to me.

10 years ago for me, I had already adopted DVD (back in 95) and had ripped all my CDs to digital years ago. In the end, I think it all comes down to exposure and tech savy. I think Bryan hit the nail on the head with that too. I don't need and really can't use a device that is so limiting, however good it is.

The features that you like about the iPAD, I had in my iPAQ seven or eight years ago. I could check mail, watch movies, run MS Office, use it as a remote for all of my home electronics, touch screen, expandable memory, bluetooth, foldable keyboard, ect. Granted, they didn't have the screen size or the number of apps that the iPAD has, but it was cool as hell.

I do like the iPAD, but experience has forced me to want more value for my hard earned cash. For people without those experiences, I can see the iPAD being a great value, but if you have some of those early experiences, it just doesn't work the same.

[Rico]

Bryan - did you get an iPad yet?  And if not, why not?  ;)

[RickPeete]

Anybody remember good ole MusicMatch?  Back in the early 2000s, that was the best online music store there was.  And yeah, I played my MP3 and WMA files on Windows Mobile and life was good!  Everyting I needed was on my Windows handheld/cell (I've owned quite a few).

And then Apple really did change the game and made the music player sleek and cool and ease to use by non-techies -- Moms, executives, grandparents -- and desired by high schoolers and collegiates.

As a DOS/Windows guy for 'ages', I resisted going to the dark side.  As a software engineer, I developed on PCs and only used Macs for word processing and design work.  But then MusicMatch got bought by Yahoo and subsequently went belly-up.  I had to move to iTunes for good digital music options.  So I bought the Video iPod while keeping my Windows Mobile Phone device.

And then the iPhone and the Touch were released.  More coolness, ease of adoption/use, and the vision that I could stop carrying around my iPod and Windows Mobile device.  So I made the jump to the iPhone.  And I have never looked back.  The devices just work too well and too seamlessly, with apps that cover the gamut of everything I needed.

My first Mac purchase was for my daughter for college.  She has a MacBook and loves it (even though her first reaction was "A Mac? Why?")  Now she can't live without it.  I still have all PC-based servers and workstations at the house but Mac has breached the beachhead.

The iPad was the final piece of the puzzle.  Now I do not even bring along my NetBook (going to sell it to a colleague in fact).  I love my 3GS and IPad and they're all I take with me.  My wife loves her 3G.  She is even considering a his-n-her dual iPhone 4 purchase for our birthdays in August.

I guess my journey to the dark side is complete.