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Lost Season Six - The Final Season

Started by Geekyfanboy, January 06, 2010, 02:22:40 PM

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Jobydrone

I enjoyed it.

[spoiler]There's one simple part that brings it into focus for me, and then other elements (of the flash sideways and what it means) that were confusing fall into place.  When Kate sees Jack for the first time outside the church, and she has been awakened but Jack is still resisting, she says to him how much she has missed him for so long.  We later see that Kate was one of the people that had left the island on the Ajira plane, and we can infer that she (and the others on the plane with her) lived a long life following this second rescue. 

I enjoyed how they used the flash sideways to bring together the characters and close the relationships that have been left in an unsatisfying way throughout the last couple of seasons.  When you think about it, the tragedy of some of these stories (I'm thinking specifically of Sawyer/Juliet, Sun/Jin, & Charlie/Claire,) would have been too much to bear and enjoy as escapist entertainment without the neat idea of everyone getting back together in the afterlife one more time.

I thought the very end of the show, with Jack dying in the same spot the series premiere opened, then showing the wreckage of the plane on the beach, was a little bit of a tongue in cheek homage to "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge."  But when thinking about it a little more, the deeper understanding of what the creators were going for is obviously a much more satisfying ending.  But that interpretation is still there for those that choose to see it that way.

There was some minor disappointment about a couple unresolved threads, but I enjoyed what we were given so much that I can simply let them go with a pretty easy suspension of disbelief.  All told, an epic end to an epic show.    [/spoiler]
"I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal."  -Groucho Marx

Rico

Good points guys and ones I had realized when watching the show too.  But,...

[spoiler]I also caught the bit between Jack and Kate and knew what that meant too.  But, I still wanted more.  I feel a little used.  For years they tossed all kinds of crazy stuff at us and in the end we have no real answers.  I'm usually ok with this type of thing - to a degree, but I feel a bit played right now.  A few nagging things:

Why did Desmond have to "wake up" all the others besides Jack?  Was he waking them all up just at the point after they died in their lives - like Jack?  Did he have to do this each time one of them died - or just Jack?

I'm actually a bit shocked I seem to be the only dissenting opinion here right now as I'm usually pretty easy to please.  Oh, well.  Maybe it will grow on me.  For now, lets just say I enjoyed the ride much more than the end.  And maybe that's the whole point.[/spoiler]

Jobydrone

It was all about the midichlorians, Rico.
"I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal."  -Groucho Marx

jedijeff

Quote from: Rico on May 24, 2010, 05:30:13 AM
Surprised not more comments here yet.  I have to admit, I'm a bit disappointed in the finale.  Read on:

[spoiler]I'm still trying to grasp it all, but they didn't all die in the crash.  The Island was real - everything that happened there did in fact happen.  Jack's dad tells him that.  Jeff's explanation above is pretty close to the way I am seeing things.  People had guessed long ago that they all actually died in the crash and the producers said no - that isn't it - the island is not the afterlife.

Now, I'm not quite getting why everyone in the flash sideways had to remember things.  I don't follow that.  Is that something like when you die you don't remember who you loved and lost??  Really???

Now, for my big problem.  I'm ok with some things left unanswered, but they basically left WAY too much open and not even touched on.  Who were Jacob and the man in black/smokey - really.  Why and how was the Island the weird way it was?  Dharma??  Weird EM energy???  Where's Walt????  Vincent?????



Now, I have to admit I got a bit misty at some of the parts in the finale - especially the Charlie/Claire/Aaron moment, but it was like a reunion show.  I hope I'm not sounding too harsh, but I think after six years we deserved a bit more.  I still really enjoyed the series, but have to say the finale left too much open for me.[/spoiler]


Some of my thoughts Rico, how I reconciled it in my head, but that is just me, everyone I am sure pulls their own conclusions
[spoiler]Some of my thoughts on the unanswered questions

Just my Interpretation on how I perceived them

Dharma was there to investigate the mysteries of the Island, which were in part from the EM energy. They were eradicated by Ben and the Others and there story over. Why was the Island special, I guess that EM energy led to it being anonmaly, so why it was being investigated by Dharma. That is what I can gather out of that. The EM Energy and the Light cave I guess led to other things, like the Time Travel, the Portal to Tunisia, not being able to conceive on the Island, the healing properties

Jacob and the Man in Black - Two men, who came to the Island via a pregnant woman, were born and their mother killed, and raised by a lady who was protecting the Island. In the end, they were unlucky like anyone else who came to the Island, and prisoners as well. Jacob had to take over protecting the island after given the power, and the man in black knocked out, and died in the light cave, relaeasing the black smoke monster, who took his form. Why that Lady was there before them, I guess like they say, with every answer, another question. So The Lady, Jacob, Jack, Hurley, just people in a line of protectors to the island.

Vincent, Not all dogs go to heaven I guess

Walt, I struggled with that as well, I guess since Michael never moved on and his spirit trapped on the Island, Walt never had a connection like the others to move on as group at the end. Michael and Walt never really reconciled, so maybe they never completed their experience on the Island since they left early. I guess maybe the same for some of the others who were not at the church, they never fully reconciled their pasts on the island[/spoiler]

Jobydrone

My favorite part of the finale:

[spoiler]When Sawyer finally starts to "wake up" in the vending area with Juliet, but before he completely remembers everything, and he starts to ask her out for a cup of coffee.  So funny and touching!  [/spoiler]

Of all the actors we've met on this show I think that Josh Holloway has the most potential to be a major Hollywood movie star, and I bet we see something big from him sooner rather than later on down the road.
"I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal."  -Groucho Marx

KingIsaacLinksr

#125
I think:
[spoiler]that the flash sideways were a bit into the future, as Ben and Hirley seemed to have worked together longer than than Jack.  

I guess I understand what your saying Rico, but I think the series answers most questions throughout itself, we just have to piece it together.  

I don't think we were ever going to be happy with the finale, but that's why the journey was more important anyway. 
[/spoiler]
A Paladin Without A Crusade Blog... www.kingisaaclinksr.wordpress.com
My Review of Treks In Sci-Fi Podcast: http://wp.me/pQq2J-zs
Let's Play: Videogames YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/kingisaaclinksr

jedijeff

A few more thoughts on LOST on some more reflection

[spoiler]In my earlier post, I said that I felt Jacob/Man in Black were prisoners on the island like the others. Jacob (and Richard) have been seen to have left the island on occasion, but I suspect like Jack, they probably cannot stay away the island for a long period of time, as they would have been compelled to return due to the Islands bond with them.

I really do see now where Locke did have to die for others to fulfill their destiny. Jacob had a list of Candidates, it seemed to me, he was not to picky in the end in who replaced him out of his candidates. If Locke had not died, he would have taken that role in a heartbeat. I think Locke found what he was looking for so much sooner then the rest, and then the rest of the series was testing his faith. In the cave, Jack indicated that Locke was right in the end, when talking to the MIB/Smokey, I dont think Jack would have ever gotten there, if Locke had lived. Jack had to find his faith, and take the role as Island protector to find what he was looking for. Also Hurley and Ben were effected by Locke dieing, as Hurley was the successor to Jack, and Ben served Hurley of his own free will. I don't see Ben ever serving Locke, if Locke had taken over, Ben would have never gotten past his Jealousy, and never fulfilled his destiny either. To another degree, Locke leaving the island also helped Sawyer fulfill his destiny as well, since Sawyer was then put in the spot of leading the rest of the losties who remained on the island, and finding something inside of him.

It was a nice touch to see that Richard was mortal in the end, that the passing of Jacob freed Richard of that bond

The finale in the end came down to things are what they are, and there is a certain amount of faith you have to take in that. It left it open for us to make our own conclusions on what the show meant. I guess to me, if they tried to answer some of the questions, maybe the answers would have been unsatisfying, then leaving it open to us to come to our conclusions. In one of the last podcasts, Damon and Carlton talked about the Midichlorians explaining the force in Star Wars. No one really ever wanted an answer to the Force, we just believed it was there, and no explanation was necessary, so why that never really worked. I guess I view some of the island the same way, it is there, it is mysterious, and that is the way it is. Some might argue, that it was taking an easy way out, and they wrote themselves into a spot where they could not explain themselves out of, and I can see that argument. Maybe if they tried to explain the island more, it would have come across as technobabble, or the answer would have been to far from the heart of the story. I guess for me, LOST had some many deep storylines, that an black and white explanation might have left me feeling unsatisfied depending on what the answers are. I look at a show like Voyager, it has a great ending for what it was, as the goal of the series was to make it home, and they accomplished it. LOST probably was never going to be a series that would end with a definite ending, and I am happy about it, as it gives me so much to think about. I am going to start going through it again on DVD and see what more I can get out of it. It has also inspired me to go through BSG again, as when that series ended, I was let down by the ending, but no reflecting back, there might have been more to it, and deserves another look on my part.[/spoiler]

KingIsaacLinksr

I agree with Jedijeff, he bascially explained what I tried to and then forgot to mention. 

Also:

[spoiler]I think that the side-flashes were the "spirits" of the LOSTIES trying to live out normal lives in their way until they "woke up" and moved on.  Whether it was naturally or by someone named Desmond.  [/spoiler]

King
A Paladin Without A Crusade Blog... www.kingisaaclinksr.wordpress.com
My Review of Treks In Sci-Fi Podcast: http://wp.me/pQq2J-zs
Let's Play: Videogames YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/kingisaaclinksr

jedijeff

Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on May 24, 2010, 11:11:31 AM
I agree with Jedijeff, he bascially explained what I tried to and then forgot to mention. 

Also:

[spoiler]I think that the side-flashes were the "spirits" of the LOSTIES trying to live out normal lives in their way until they "woke up" and moved on.  Whether it was naturally or by someone named Desmond.  [/spoiler]

King

I agree Tim, I came to the same thought as well

[spoiler]After they died in the real world, they were in this spirit world so to say, and they lived out a life. Like you say, at some point they are woken up, and remember what their real life was, and the people they cared for. Everyone dies at different times, but they got to take that final step in death and afterlife together (be it Heaven, or whatever a person may believe). To me, it is sort of a nice thought, about being able to share something so great with the ones close to you.[/spoiler]

X

Quote from: Rico on May 24, 2010, 05:30:13 AM
Surprised not more comments here yet.  I have to admit, I'm a bit disappointed in the finale.  Read on:

[spoiler]I'm still trying to grasp it all, but they didn't all die in the crash.  The Island was real - everything that happened there did in fact happen.  Jack's dad tells him that.  Jeff's explanation above is pretty close to the way I am seeing things.  People had guessed long ago that they all actually died in the crash and the producers said no - that isn't it - the island is not the afterlife.

Now, I'm not quite getting why everyone in the flash sideways had to remember things.  I don't follow that.  Is that something like when you die you don't remember who you loved and lost??  Really???

Now, for my big problem.  I'm ok with some things left unanswered, but they basically left WAY too much open and not even touched on.  Who were Jacob and the man in black/smokey - really.  Why and how was the Island the weird way it was?  Dharma??  Weird EM energy???  Where's Walt????  Vincent????? 

Now, I have to admit I got a bit misty at some of the parts in the finale - especially the Charlie/Claire/Aaron moment, but it was like a reunion show.  I hope I'm not sounding too harsh, but I think after six years we deserved a bit more.  I still really enjoyed the series, but have to say the finale left too much open for me.[/spoiler]
I loved the finale and I thought I'd answer Rico's questions to the best of my ability.

[spoiler]
Now, I'm not quite getting why everyone in the flash sideways had to remember things
They, like in 6th sense had to remember that they were dead to move on. Like in many faiths that have to deal with reincarnation, you usually don't remember a past life regardless of how great or bad it was. They arrived in their little purgatory carrying some of the baggage that they had in life to make sure that they had learned from it and wasn't going to repeat it.

Weird energy? Does it really matter what the energy was? We still don't know how lightsabers or hyperspace drives work. Like those objects, the weird energy was a tool to help tell the story. The energy didn't matter as much as what people did to protect it. Just like them pressing the button. They thought it was to keep the world from ending, but they were wrong. Did that change what the button was? not really. Sometimes we don't need to know everything about why we do something in order to get it done.

Walt? Outside of the story, Walt was getting too old. Inside of the story, they answer it. Michael wanted to get Walt off the island and cut a deal. Assume that Jacob agreed and what ever it was that Walt might have been able to do was ended because Michael started being a father.

Vincent? lived a happy dog life on the island with Rose, her husband, Ben, and Hurley.

[/spoiler]

Rico

Yes, I agree I don't need an answer for everything.  But,...

[spoiler]My biggest issue is the "Desmond factor."  I just don't get why he had to go around and gather everyone up and "remind them" of their time on the island?  Did he have to do this only once or just when Jack was getting close to dying?  There was much made in episodes that Desmond was "special."  Well, how so?  Besides what we saw him do with the EM stuff on the island and all that - and I guess in the "afterlife."

Even in a fantasy series there needs to be some internal logic to things.  That's what I'm missing here.  Things are just not quite adding up for me.  Again, I enjoyed aspects of it but really wanted more.  And I find it a bit odd that the executive producers are kind of clamping up about things.  But I have a theory,....

I think at the start of the series, their initial idea was that the island was a purgatory type of place.  That the flight did crash and killed everyone.  So, their time on the island was to resolve their individual problems.  Now, when the series began, this was a fairly obvious answer for everything.  But the producers vehemently denied that this was the answer to it all.  So they sort of twisted that idea a bit.  The island was real and the people survived the crash.  Then they still had to work out their demons and this would all come together at the end as they all died at different points in time.  Now, I find the first solution much more reasonable.  I really think they changed their minds based on what the fan base was coming up with.  Just my idea and thoughts.  But if true, it does kind of annoy me a little.   [/spoiler]

moyer777

#131
I guess I'll chime in.  I enjoyed the whole series all the way up to the last ten minutes.  I didn't like the ending at all.  I wanted to be wowed not sucked into the way everything is always explained. (or in this case NOT explained)  The whole- "there are many ways to heaven, or eternity" and in my opinion there were far too many loose ends.  I was expecting something like the sixth sense or a cool Star Wars or Star Trek ending.  Maybe even a scientific explanation for some of the stuff.  And I didn't get it.  Amy and I looked at each other and just said... We stayed up for this?  

Just my opinion.  It was a brilliant show, but if you ask me the writers failed on the last ten minutes.  I was expecting something cooler.

:)

I have been and always will be, your friend.
Listen to our podcast each week http://www.takehimwithyou.com

X

Quote from: Rico on May 24, 2010, 01:04:20 PM
Yes, I agree I don't need an answer for everything.  But,...

[spoiler]My biggest issue is the "Desmond factor."  I just don't get why he had to go around and gather everyone up and "remind them" of their time on the island?  Did he have to do this only once or just when Jack was getting close to dying?  There was much made in episodes that Desmond was "special."  Well, how so?  Besides what we saw him do with the EM stuff on the island and all that - and I guess in the "afterlife."

Even in a fantasy series there needs to be some internal logic to things.  That's what I'm missing here.  Things are just not quite adding up for me.  Again, I enjoyed aspects of it but really wanted more.  And I find it a bit odd that the executive producers are kind of clamping up about things.  But I have a theory,....

I think at the start of the series, their initial idea was that the island was a purgatory type of place.  That the flight did crash and killed everyone.  So, their time on the island was to resolve their individual problems.  Now, when the series began, this was a fairly obvious answer for everything.  But the producers vehemently denied that this was the answer to it all.  So they sort of twisted that idea a bit.  The island was real and the people survived the crash.  Then they still had to work out their demons and this would all come together at the end as they all died at different points in time.  Now, I find the first solution much more reasonable.  I really think they changed their minds based on what the fan base was coming up with.  Just my idea and thoughts.  But if true, it does kind of annoy me a little.   [/spoiler]


As for Desmond being special.

[spoiler] He was one of the first on the island. He was the only one able to travel his own timeline. And he was EM proof. I don't think the needed to explain why anymore than they needed to explain why some people could see the dead, some people had psychic powers, and some people could hear the last thoughts of the dead. Some people had special abilities and none of them were explained. Look how well it turned out when they explained how people get the force. [/spoiler]

Rico

#133
Quote from: Just X on May 24, 2010, 03:09:01 PM
Quote from: Rico on May 24, 2010, 01:04:20 PM
Yes, I agree I don't need an answer for everything.  But,...

[spoiler]My biggest issue is the "Desmond factor."  I just don't get why he had to go around and gather everyone up and "remind them" of their time on the island?  Did he have to do this only once or just when Jack was getting close to dying?  There was much made in episodes that Desmond was "special."  Well, how so?  Besides what we saw him do with the EM stuff on the island and all that - and I guess in the "afterlife."

Even in a fantasy series there needs to be some internal logic to things.  That's what I'm missing here.  Things are just not quite adding up for me.  Again, I enjoyed aspects of it but really wanted more.  And I find it a bit odd that the executive producers are kind of clamping up about things.  But I have a theory,....

I think at the start of the series, their initial idea was that the island was a purgatory type of place.  That the flight did crash and killed everyone.  So, their time on the island was to resolve their individual problems.  Now, when the series began, this was a fairly obvious answer for everything.  But the producers vehemently denied that this was the answer to it all.  So they sort of twisted that idea a bit.  The island was real and the people survived the crash.  Then they still had to work out their demons and this would all come together at the end as they all died at different points in time.  Now, I find the first solution much more reasonable.  I really think they changed their minds based on what the fan base was coming up with.  Just my idea and thoughts.  But if true, it does kind of annoy me a little.   [/spoiler]


As for Desmond being special.

[spoiler] He was one of the first on the island. He was the only one able to travel his own timeline. And he was EM proof. I don't think the needed to explain why anymore than they needed to explain why some people could see the dead, some people had psychic powers, and some people could hear the last thoughts of the dead. Some people had special abilities and none of them were explained. Look how well it turned out when they explained how people get the force. [/spoiler]

Yes - I know all that of course.  But I think you are missing what I am getting at.

[spoiler]I wanted to know why Desmond was doing what he was doing in the last few episodes - pulling everyone together.  And also, my bigger problem is what I stated in the rest of my post.  I feel like they kind of slipped one over on us - in a way.  It kind of was all neat and tidy in some respects.  Oh, they are all dead now and this is them remembering each other.  Again - why??  Sorry, but for a show that had time travel, teleportation, smoke monsters, atom bombs go off, etc., I wanted some answers to those things.  Instead at the end, they get all metaphysical.  Oh, well.[/spoiler]

X

Quote from: Rico on May 24, 2010, 05:05:27 PM
Quote from: Just X on May 24, 2010, 03:09:01 PM
Quote from: Rico on May 24, 2010, 01:04:20 PM
Yes, I agree I don't need an answer for everything.  But,...

[spoiler]My biggest issue is the "Desmond factor."  I just don't get why he had to go around and gather everyone up and "remind them" of their time on the island?  Did he have to do this only once or just when Jack was getting close to dying?  There was much made in episodes that Desmond was "special."  Well, how so?  Besides what we saw him do with the EM stuff on the island and all that - and I guess in the "afterlife."

Even in a fantasy series there needs to be some internal logic to things.  That's what I'm missing here.  Things are just not quite adding up for me.  Again, I enjoyed aspects of it but really wanted more.  And I find it a bit odd that the executive producers are kind of clamping up about things.  But I have a theory,....

I think at the start of the series, their initial idea was that the island was a purgatory type of place.  That the flight did crash and killed everyone.  So, their time on the island was to resolve their individual problems.  Now, when the series began, this was a fairly obvious answer for everything.  But the producers vehemently denied that this was the answer to it all.  So they sort of twisted that idea a bit.  The island was real and the people survived the crash.  Then they still had to work out their demons and this would all come together at the end as they all died at different points in time.  Now, I find the first solution much more reasonable.  I really think they changed their minds based on what the fan base was coming up with.  Just my idea and thoughts.  But if true, it does kind of annoy me a little.   [/spoiler]


As for Desmond being special.

[spoiler] He was one of the first on the island. He was the only one able to travel his own timeline. And he was EM proof. I don't think the needed to explain why anymore than they needed to explain why some people could see the dead, some people had psychic powers, and some people could hear the last thoughts of the dead. Some people had special abilities and none of them were explained. Look how well it turned out when they explained how people get the force. [/spoiler]

Yes - I know all that of course.  But I think you are missing what I am getting at.

[spoiler]I wanted to know why Desmond was doing what he was doing in the last few episodes - pulling everyone together.  And also, my bigger problem is what I stated in the rest of my post.  I feel like they kind of slipped one over on us - in a way.  It kind of was all neat and tidy in some respects.  Oh, they are all dead now and this is them remembering each other.  Again - why??  Sorry, but for a show that had time travel, teleportation, smoke monsters, atom bombs go off, etc., I wanted some answers to those things.  Instead at the end, they get all metaphysical.  Oh, well.[/spoiler]

[spoiler] You want to know why Desmond did what he did, but why wouldn't he? These are close friends and part of his family that aren't with the people they love. Do they really need to express a reason? He was the first to get his completed memories back and he moved heaven and earth to get those people together. Isn't that what Desmond was about in the living world? He wanted to get back with the person that he loved more than anything when stuck on the island, I think that he of all people would want his friends to have their happiness as well. Also, being the first to find out they were dead, he knew that they couldn't die again, so some of the drastic things he did was for the greater good. Even Boone took a beating so that his sis and Sayid could wake up.

Just like Desmond thought the afterlife was another world and was disappointed when it didn't happen, that adds to how he gained a better clarity when he woke up. Before he died, he knew that world existed.

As for the why they are remembering each other. Again, they did something that bonded them together, don't most people that believe in an afterlife hope to find their loved ones when they cross over? Christian also spelled that part out. These were the most important people in Jack's life and they built that world together because of their bonds.


I think that 9 times out of 10, they answered the questions that people have, but since it's not the answer they want, it's ignored. [/spoiler]