Why is it?

[Bryancd]

You better feel for me then, because I consider several in your list as excellent musical talents and wonderful to listen to.  Why is it that people must compare things all the time?  This music is better than that person's music?  This movie is better than that?  Wouldn't it be better (and maybe more reasonable) to adopt the IDIC philosophy?  Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations?  I know what I enjoy and like.  Really doesn't matter much to me if anyone else feels the same.

Talent and genius are not the same thing. I have known a lot of guys who have a talent for getting women in bed that does not make them geniuses at the activity.

I am not at all disputing the talent of those persons or groups I mentioned, and I could have listed hundreds more, but in my opinion to try and place those "talents" on the same level as the great classical composers (past or present composers) is beyond ridiculous!

Kevin

And you would be wrong, but I think that's the point. You're not looking for people to discuss music with, you're looking for someone to argue with. Your argument is built entirely on the fallacy that you opinion is the only correct one. What does it take to be an genius?

Prince has a huge catalog. He can actually play over a dozen instruments. Is that a genius or does the fact that he also writes vocals offends your sensibilities?

Prince is amazing. Saw the Purple Rain concert back in 1985. Also Bruce for the Born in the USA tour. Amazing talents equal to Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi, or John Williams.

[Ktrek]

I am not at all disputing the talent of those persons or groups I mentioned, and I could have listed hundreds more, but in my opinion to try and place those "talents" on the same level as the great classical composers (past or present composers) is beyond ridiculous!
Kevin

So you don't dispute their talent while lording the opinion that they are crap? Dude, move away from the keyboard.

Bryan - I think it is you who has the condescending and demeaning attitude. Not me! You are far more close minded than I ever could dream of being!

Kevin

[Ktrek]

Get over yourself, it makes life on an internet forum easier.

I could say that you might want to take your own advice Bryan! Out of all the responses I have gotten in this thread yours are the most course and mean spirited. I'm trying very hard to not hit back in the same manner that you have slapped me down.

Kevin

[Bryancd]

Kevin, I'm not picking a fight with you. I actually enjoy some of your posts as being somewhat against the grain. But you clearly feel strongly about this and are looking for a fight. You say that if anyone compares modern talent to those of the classical artists are being ridiculous. And then say I am close minded? That's rich. You don't know me, don't dare judge me lest you be judged yourself.

[Jobydrone]

In my mind the genius of any musician/composer is measured primarily by the impact their composition has on the listener.  It doesn't matter if the medium is a full orchestra, a power trio, or tap shoes and garbage can lids.  If the experience of listening provokes an emotional response then I would consider it artful.  

[Bryancd]

So if I like Prince as a talent more than Bach, my opinion is ridiculous? Your words.

[Ktrek]

Kevin, I'm not picking a fight with you. I actually enjoy some of your posts as being somewhat against the grain. But you clearly feel strongly about this and are looking for a fight. You say that if anyone compares modern talent to those of the classical artists are being ridiculous. And then say I am close minded? That's rich. You don't know me, don't dare judge me lest you be judged yourself.

That's where you are wrong! I wasn't looking for a fight until someone picked it with me. And having read so many of your posts over the last couple of years I dare say I do know you just as you know me. Enough to make the above statement! Your very first response had to be one of sarcasm which is exactly what I would have expected from you.

My opinion is just as valid as yours or anyone else's but because I hold it more dogmatically than others I get shot down. It does not mean though that my opinion is not true it just shows that my first post on the topic was as accurate an assessment here as anywhere else I have looked.

Kevin

[X]

Kevin, I'm not picking a fight with you. I actually enjoy some of your posts as being somewhat against the grain. But you clearly feel strongly about this and are looking for a fight. You say that if anyone compares modern talent to those of the classical artists are being ridiculous. And then say I am close minded? That's rich. You don't know me, don't dare judge me lest you be judged yourself.

That's where you are wrong! I wasn't looking for a fight until someone picked it with me. And having read so many of your posts over the last couple of years I dare say I do know you just as you know me. Enough to make the above statement! Your very first response had to be one of sarcasm which is exactly what I would have expected from you.

My opinion is just as valid as yours or anyone else's but because I hold it more dogmatically than others I get shot down. It does not mean though that my opinion is not true it just shows that my first post on the topic was as accurate an assessment here as anywhere else I have looked.

Kevin

Kevin, maybe you didn't notice, but every word in your post suggested that we either agree with you or we are wrong and clueless about music. Perhaps that wasn't you intent, but that doesn't mean anything. We can only read your words and your words were demeaning to anyone who would dare like something other than classical. Unless you were honestly expecting everyone on the boards to agree with you, then you were looking for a fight. You came out swinging at anyone not in your camp. You were rude and insulting about it and then made it worse by ignoring the fact that what you wrote was insulting.

Then to make it even worse, rather than question why people don't want to talk to you about music (it should be obvious now) you suggest that one if the reason is that people might think the music is pretentious. In all honesty, ever word you wrote came off as pretentious, elitist, and something wrong with us if we didn't accept your opinion as if it came from on high.

Even this latest post is insulting because you can't just accept that you have a different opinion and move on. Something has to be wrong with the rest of us.

Your "assessment" is nothing more than you looking for an excuse to ignore what you want and paint us into some corner as being off for not agreeing with you. I like a lot of different types of music. I would think that I would know how best to stimulate my mind.

[SPOCKFAN]

REALLY? You would put Michael Jackson, Madonna, Brittany Spears, Travis Tritt, Dolly Parton, Elton John, Radio Head, Miley Cyrus, Pitbull, Nickeback, Led Zepplin, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Black Eyed Peas etc. on the same par and footing as Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Shostakovitch, Copeland, Schubert, Tchaikovsky etc.? Please!

This is the most insulting statement in this thread. And have you ever listened to Radiohead?  They are brilliant.  Are you kidding me?! The Beatles are more classic than so called classical music.  Just because the music is in an opera or performed by an Orchestra does not make it superior music. Some music that is considered in the genre of classical music is unbearable to listen to in my opinion.  Don't get me wrong I do enjoy that type of music when I am in the mood for it.  Its wonderful to listen to when on a drive through the mountains.  I also love listen to Orchestra music and soundtracks while I at work.
But you can not insult Elton John by lumping him in the same category as Brittney Spears. that just shows ignorance of his musical accomplishments.

[SPOCKFAN]

I am listening to something I consider classical music. It is "Transylvania Overture" by Nox Arcana. Check it out

[billybob476]

It's been mentioned before. There existed many, many more classical composers then the ones we listen to today, they've simply faded into obscurity.

Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and others were the Elvis', the Beatles, the Stones, the Micheal Jacksons of their time. They changed music as it was known as then to what it is known as now.

In college I really liked techno, I also took a history of Afro American Rock music class. One day I brought up the fact I enjoyed techno and the professor completely invalidated it as a form of music because it was made by "a guy sitting behind a computer".

I shot back saying from his point of view, every artist we covered in this class as ground braking should be invalidated as well except for the black salves doing field calls with their voices. Everyone else's music was from "a guy sitting behind a piano" or "a guy sitting behind a guitar".

Musical taste is a very personal thing and what is considered 'genuis' can be very subjective. Genius comes in many forms. Was Bach a musical genius? For his time I believe he was. Was Micheal Jackson a musical genius? For his time I believe he was as well. Will people be listening to Micheal Jackson in 200 years? I can't say, but I'm sure Bach wouldn't have thought that he'd be listened to in the year 2009 either.

[Rico]

Ok folks, I just want to say a couple things.  First, let's try and keep this civil as much as we can.  It would be kind of silly to let a little chat about music cause any real issues.

And here is the most important thing I want to say that I think I've said before both on the forum and on the podcast.  I have always tried very hard to just give my informed opinion about something (an episode, movie, music, books, etc.).  Those are always just my views and I always try to say "I like this" or "I like that" - I try to avoid things like "this is the best movie ever" or "if you don't like this music or book you are crazy!"  I think you get my drift.  All of this is just a matter of taste.  Please do not think you can presume to decide the taste for other people.  I enjoy hearing what other people think, but again that is simply their viewpoint.  Sometimes I think that could be stated better.  It's one thing to let people know your views and thoughts and to share them.  It is quite another to make your views the end all, be all of whatever the topic is. 

That's all I wanted to say - for now.

[Bryancd]

And having read so many of your posts over the last couple of years I dare say I do know you just as you know me. Enough to make the above statement! Your very first response had to be one of sarcasm which is exactly what I would have expected from you.

My opinion is just as valid as yours or anyone else's but because I hold it more dogmatically than others I get shot down. It does not mean though that my opinion is not true it just shows that my first post on the topic was as accurate an assessment here as anywhere else I have looked.

Kevin

No, that was my point, we really don't know each other at all. It's an interent forum. I'm sure you are a great guy and we clearly share similar interest as we are both here. I really do enjoy your posts, you often go against the grain and I find that refreshing and challenging. Clearly you don't care for me, but I am not everyone's cup of tea. :) I'm sorry you feel that way.
I agree 100% you are entitiled to your opinion and I respect that. I also don't 100% disagree with some of how you feel. I appreciate classical music very much. My father listened to it when I was growing up and he played it on our piano for me. I don't listen much now and I appreciate all sorts of other music. I hope that doesn't make be look even worse in  your eyes! ;)

[Meds]

I adore classical music, the violin for me is just heaven. I'm a big fan of classic fm radio and i enjoy a good range bar bach, and that's only because i can't abide organ style music. Also i love jazz, blues, country, bluegrass, rock, metal hip hop (old school), western, ambient and my new hot taste is folk. So i can't say i only like one style. Music is expression. But like everything everyone has an opinion and a debate is good but if you say people look blank when you ask them thats not a bad thing. I like the doors but ask me to name all the albums I'll look at you in a blank state. Classical music can be daunting, a bit like me saying explain the fine works of stephen hawkins you get the idea but you can't debate it with him. Music should be embraced and enjoyed. The majority (me included) discovered classical music via soundtracks. Would that be a bad thing to say "oh yes i found beethoven by a clockwork orange" instead of a concert. No.   

[Meds]

Oh can i just add The Beatles broke up 40 years ago this week. How crazy is that.