Michael Jackson Dies at 50

[Geekyfanboy]

Nathan and I just watched it.  I hadn't seen that before.  Was it a 3-D movie Kenny?

Yep it was in 3D and it was so much fun. Saw it many times at Disneyland.

[Jen]

I always held out hope he would get it together and get out and start making great music again. I don't excuse or condone a lot of what he did, but a part of me feels terrible for his circumstances. He was born into this bizarre life of pop music he could never escape. How can you ever lead a normal life surrounded by fame, fans, and world that never says no to you?

I agree. I hope none of it was true. And he was very odd— a product of his missing childhood and subsequent stardom. But Michael Jackson was a huge part of my childhood. I can remember when Thriller came out. My elementary school had a talent show and several girls in my third grade class did the dance on stage.

I listened to We Are The World on the radio this morning. I use to know all the words. Anyway...very sad news.

[Bryancd]

It boils down to the fact that in my mind, there could have been no evidence presented at all (but there was) and the simple fact that paying 22 million dollars to make the accusation of child molestation go away indicates guilt on some level.  That is not the action of an innocent man.

I don't think you can draw that conclusion at all. A civil trial is a tricky thing and given enough legal zeal of the prosecution, even the innocent can be punished. The desire to avoid a trial is certainly NOT an admission of guilt on any level. You are welcome to draw that conclusion, but don't be surprised when others disagree.
Personally, I don't think we even remotely got close to the truth in either of those cases and we never will know the truth. There was too much money and notoriety at stake for there to ever be justice for either party. Do I think MJ was an emotionally troubled man. Certainly. Do I think he was a child molester? No, but I do think he made astoundingly poor decisions about what is an appropriate relationship between a child and an adult. I don't feel he did this out of malice, I think he did this without understanding the consequences, which doesn't excuse it. There should have been consequences and he paid that financially. That's likely what happens when you live in a world where you have no boundaries and no one says "No" to you.

[Geekyfanboy]

It boils down to the fact that in my mind, there could have been no evidence presented at all (but there was) and the simple fact that paying 22 million dollars to make the accusation of child molestation go away indicates guilt on some level.  That is not the action of an innocent man.

I don't think you can draw that conclusion at all. A civil trial is a tricky thing and given enough legal zeal of the prosecution, even the innocent can be punished. The desire to avoid a trial is certainly NOT an admission of guilt on any level. You are welcome to draw that conclusion, but don't be surprised when others disagree.
Personally, I don't think we even remotely got close to the truth in either of those cases and we never will know the truth. There was too much money and notoriety at stake for there to ever be justice for either party. Do I think MJ was an emotionally troubled man. Certainly. Do I think he was a child molester? No, but I do think he made astoundingly poor decisions about what is an appropriate relationship between a child and an adult. I don't feel he did this out of malice, I think he did this without understanding the consequences, which doesn't excuse it. There should have been consequences and he paid that financially. That's likely what happens when you live in a world where you have no boundaries and no one says "No" to you.

WOW... Bryan I agree with you 100% Very well said.

[Jen]

It boils down to the fact that in my mind, there could have been no evidence presented at all (but there was) and the simple fact that paying 22 million dollars to make the accusation of child molestation go away indicates guilt on some level.  That is not the action of an innocent man.

I don't think you can draw that conclusion at all. A civil trial is a tricky thing and given enough legal zeal of the prosecution, even the innocent can be punished. The desire to avoid a trial is certainly NOT an admission of guilt on any level. You are welcome to draw that conclusion, but don't be surprised when others disagree.
Personally, I don't think we even remotely got close to the truth in either of those cases and we never will know the truth. There was too much money and notoriety at stake for there to ever be justice for either party. Do I think MJ was an emotionally troubled man. Certainly. Do I think he was a child molester? No, but I do think he made astoundingly poor decisions about what is an appropriate relationship between a child and an adult. I don't feel he did this out of malice, I think he did this without understanding the consequences, which doesn't excuse it. There should have been consequences and he paid that financially. That's likely what happens when you live in a world where you have no boundaries and no one says "No" to you.

Yeah, I agree too. It looked VERY suspicious but every big entity is often attacked with law suits and not all of them are well founded.  I don't know if it's true or not...but it wasn't proven so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Bryan is right he did have strange friendships with kids which looked very bad.

[Bryancd]

I think children were the only people in his life who were truthful with him. He probably felt safe in their company. This was a man who had an arrested personal development. He never even had a childhood. As much as so many of us were repelled by the closeness of his relationship with children, he likely couldn't understand why everyone felt that way. He lacked the emotional maturity to think in that manner and no one around him was willing to risk alienating themselves from his good graces to help him understand. I think some of the more questionable actions he was accused of likely were a result of him being under the influence of alcohol or pain medication or both and again, no one to step in and say "no".

[Trekkygeek]

Today I heard the news that I had been dreading. With exception of my family and friends, this death is probably closer to me and more shattering than any other.

Michael Jackson was my musical Hero, he was my musical God and his music has touched me more than any other artist.
I went to see him three times in the 80's and 90's, and the first time back in 1987 at the age of 16, I saw him at Wembley stadium for his first ever solo concert in England... on my own.

To this day, with the exception of the birth of my twins, that is the finest day of my life so far. Thriller was when I discovered the amazing talent of this man and I have enjoyed his music and videos ever since.

Today I feel I have lost something very dear to me.
Us Michael Jackson fans have had to put up with people judging our allegiance. TIme and time again these people would question me as to why I would be so fanatical about a "peado weirdo bloke who isn't comfortable with his roots."

Ever since the Jordy Chandler monstrosity I have had to listen to people sniggering or outrightly accusing my musical Hero of being a child molester. Despite being found not guilty.

And now, at this very sad time, there are still these idiots who insist on going on about tired accusations and generally being trollish and cruel. To come on these fine forums and spout your filth is unforgiveable. Let us fans, just for once, greive the passing of this legend without bringing up these subjects. The man hasn't even been dead for 24 hours and yet you still insist on spouting your drivel. Wind your neck in and just appreciate his talent. Then in a week or two you can go back to your views. Carry on believing Michael abused children if you like. He was found not guilty, remember that.

I was reading another forum where a young lad was saying that this outpouring of grief was over the top.
Firstly, this guy has left a musical legacy not seen since Mozart or The Beatles.
Secondly, whatever your beliefs on his court case, the guy WAS a genius.
Thirdly, he has the best selling album in history (and that will never be beaten)
Fourthly, this man has given me more pleasure than anyone else outside my family.
And finally, I do not need to be told by a child that my grief is "Over the top"

And in the same way, I don't want to come onto this forum where I believe the good people here will celebrate his life with me, to read the same shit I have had to put up with since discovering this legend at the tender age of 10.

Just stop your hate and give us a break.
Today I am a very sad, very angry bloke.

[Trekkygeek]

Oh, and in my haste, I forgot to mention that a lot of his bad traits stem from his own childhood. This man didn't have one really. Not like many of us are lucky to have had. He never got to play ball with the kids from the street and he decided to live his childhood when NO ONE could say he couldn't play, that is why he was weird.

And if you want my opinion on the child abuse allegations? I don't think he molested anybody. A man spending so much unsupervised time with young boys is extremely unhealthy but I just cannot believe he would do anything to hurt little ones. Just saying.

[Bryancd]

I also feel that his death was accidental but that there is someone, or many people, who are responsible and I hope they have to face that.

[Jobydrone]

I like you all and I don't want to offend anyone, but I find it mind boggling that obviously intelligent, rational people actually believe the ridiculous stories Michael Jackson's lawyers and handlers asked us to swallow trying to justify his obsession with children and proclivities towards sleeping in beds with them and spending all his time with then.  Even faced with damning evidence and gut wrenching testimony from preteen boys, people still feel the need to cling to the image perpetuated of Michael Jackson as a misunderstood manchild instead of a dangerous predator.

[Trekkygeek]

I also feel that his death was accidental but that there is someone, or many people, who are responsible and I hope they have to face that.

I think the problem Bryan, was that as he got more and more famous, it got increasingly more difficult for anyone to say NO to him

[Trekkygeek]

I like you all and I don't want to offend anyone, but I find it mind boggling that obviously intelligent, rational people actually believe the ridiculous stories Michael Jackson's lawyers and handlers asked us to swallow trying to justify his obsession with children and proclivities towards sleeping in beds with them and spending all his time with then.  Even faced with damning evidence and gut wrenching testimony from preteen boys, people still feel the need to cling to the image perpetuated of Michael Jackson as a misunderstood manchild instead of a dangerous predator.

You say you don't want to offend anyone here? Well I think you're doing a fine job doing just that. You just can't help yourself can you? You had to make one more nasty remark and put images in our minds that none of us want to see. YOu made yourself clear pages ago and despite you obvious strong beliefs, It's not all one way traffic. You don't mention testaments from witnesses who state that nothing happened and statements from people who actually knew MJ

But this isn't the place to argue this. I suggest that if you have nothing nice to say here, then don't say anything else. As I say, you have made your point and you HAVE offended me.

[Jobydrone]

No problem, I am done and gone.  So sorry for your loss.

[Ktrek]

I don't know if Michael was a child abuser or not. He was acquitted and found "not guilty" and so I accept that judgment. I do know that he was an incredible talent. While driving to work this morning I turned on the radio and "I Want You Back" was playing by the Jackson 5. For whatever reason it hit me emotionally and I cried. I'm not one given to tears but it seems like part of my own childhood died with Michael. I was never a huge fan. In fact never owned one of his records or even the Jackson 5 records but I followed his career. I loved watching his videos and found them very entertaining. I hated what he had become. I must confess when I heard the news yesterday I was not really surprised and did not have much of a reaction until I heard "I Want You Back" on the radio this morning. My reaction kind of took my by surprise. All I can say to his family is..."I grieve with thee".

Kevin

[Trekkygeek]

Okay. I have to make this clear.
For the first time on a forum, I have let my feelings get the better of me.
I am not a blinkered man. I don't love someone blindly while overlooking serious serious faults.
Even me, a massive MJ fan am somewhat doubtful of certain episodes of Michael Jacksons life. I cannot escape the fact that there may be a chance the these stories do have some truth. I don't WANT to believe it but I cannot deny that there is no smoke without fire, especially as these accusations wouldn't go away.

But I simply do not believe that this is the place to rake over old coals when we are trying to remember the musical legacy this man has left us. Whatever you think of the mans personal life you cannot deny his genius (even if you don't like his genre) and I think we should only talk about his legacy here.

I don't want to alienate myself from anyone on this forum and Joby, I do appreciate your views but I just think that we have had so much bad press on Michael that, if only until he is buried, we should thank him for all the good stuff he said.

And if anyone else is upset with my rant then I apologise. It's been a horrible day for me. As someone said many pages ago "a part of my childhood has died"
:cheers