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Author Topic: Origin of the starfleet emblem  (Read 18148 times)

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davekill

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Origin of the starfleet emblem
« on: August 10, 2008, 11:33:02 AM »
Does anyone know the origins of the starfleet assignment emblem?
Since Star Trek appeared in the 60's, it looks like it may have been influenced by the formal NASA seal from 1959.
The U.S. Air Force Space Command emblem looks kind of familiar ;)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2008, 11:50:49 AM by davekill »

Offline wraith1701

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2008, 06:48:53 PM »
Not sure where the famous delta itself originated.  I do know that in the TOS era, each starship had it's own symbol.  What we now know as the Starfleet Symbol was once the symbol of the USS Enterprise (1701).  All of the other ships in the fleet had their own unique symbol.

 If I understand correctly, the symbol of the Enterprise was adopted as the symbol of starfleet in honor of Kirk and his crew, and to acknowledge all of the great work they did.

Offline Deb

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 02:00:36 PM »
I’ve just finished Start Trek “Federation”, by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. (ISBN 0-671-89423-4).

Chapter Ten (page 137 of my copy) is headed “London, Optimal Republic of Great Britain, Earth. Earth Standard June 21, 2078” and features a discussion between Zephram Cochrane and Adrik Thorsen (the baddie). It’s a BRILLIANT explanation of how the Starfleet emblem came about – might not be completely scientifically sound, but, then we’ve yet to discover warp speed, science may change its mind!

Reference this site - http://falcon.trekufp.org/databank/tos-federation.txt
And then search on (I used Cntrl-F) “then he drew”.

FYI the first diagram is of a star. representing light speed.


The next stage has an inverted V over the top of the star representing the energy expenditure curve (the faster you go, the more massive you are).

The final stage has an additional inverted V added below the star, offset slightly to the right representing "the literal, bottom-line energy expenditure for my superimpellor. It's well below infinity, easily obtainable from a basic matter-antimatter reaction. But look how it's offset--separated--from the standard energy expenditure of normal space-time"

Have a look at a Starfleet emblem, it’ll look incredibly familiar!!

Offline Rico

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 02:18:16 PM »
Sounds like a reasonable answer.  I think the costume people under William Ware Theiss on TOS actually came up with the "real world" costumes and emblems.  But as far as "in-Trek answers", that sounds like a good one Deb.  (Oh - welcome to the forum!)

Offline Bryancd

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 03:19:19 PM »
Indeed, they had specific insignia's for each ship.



Offline Feathers

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2009, 02:59:52 AM »
If I remember correctly, the original Enterprise had the symbol in red along the side of the secondary hull. Is that true for the other ships too or did they all incorporate the same 'Enterprise' logo on the side?

The thing that strikes me from his is that there never was one Starfleet/Federation logo in the original series, or if there was, I never identified it.

I know it's unnusual here but I don't have a podcast of my own.

Offline ChadH

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 07:37:02 AM »
In the TOS episode "The Alternative Factor" Capt. Kirk receives a message from Commodor Barstow of Starfleet HQ. The insignia on his uniform may be the Starfleet/Federation insignia or possibly just the Starfleet HQ insignia. I haven't been able to find a clearer image of the Commodore. If anyone else can, please post it. I'd very much like to see it.

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/mediaview?id=12381&episodeid=68700&count=-1

**EDIT**(After another look at the insignia from Davekill's original post I think this may be the Starfleet Command insignia circa 2161-2270. Can't be sure though.)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 07:44:45 AM by ChadH »

Offline Jen

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 10:54:36 AM »
A very interesting topic. Great points everyone. Thanks for posting the images. :)
Founding co-host of the Anomaly Podcast
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Offline Darth Gaos

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 11:36:13 AM »
I’ve just finished Start Trek “Federation”, by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. (ISBN 0-671-89423-4).

Chapter Ten (page 137 of my copy) is headed “London, Optimal Republic of Great Britain, Earth. Earth Standard June 21, 2078” and features a discussion between Zephram Cochrane and Adrik Thorsen (the baddie). It’s a BRILLIANT explanation of how the Starfleet emblem came about – might not be completely scientifically sound, but, then we’ve yet to discover warp speed, science may change its mind!

Reference this site - http://falcon.trekufp.org/databank/tos-federation.txt
And then search on (I used Cntrl-F) “then he drew”.

FYI the first diagram is of a star. representing light speed.


The next stage has an inverted V over the top of the star representing the energy expenditure curve (the faster you go, the more massive you are).

The final stage has an additional inverted V added below the star, offset slightly to the right representing "the literal, bottom-line energy expenditure for my superimpellor. It's well below infinity, easily obtainable from a basic matter-antimatter reaction. But look how it's offset--separated--from the standard energy expenditure of normal space-time"

Have a look at a Starfleet emblem, it’ll look incredibly familiar!!



I asked this question a long time ago because I heard the explanation given by Deb as well, but I also knew that each ship had its own unique symbol so I was trying to get to the bottonm of it.

Just glad I am not the only one who had heard the "warp theory" design story
I think it was Socrates who spoke the immortal words:  I drank WHAT?

Offline Bromptonboy

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 04:56:47 PM »
Indeed, they had specific insignia's for each ship.



Cool!  looks like the common thread in them is the star with the extended top.  Thanks for that pic.
Pete

Offline Bryancd

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 05:21:52 PM »
If I remember correctly, the original Enterprise had the symbol in red along the side of the secondary hull. Is that true for the other ships too or did they all incorporate the same 'Enterprise' logo on the side?

The thing that strikes me from his is that there never was one Starfleet/Federation logo in the original series, or if there was, I never identified it.

Good question, Mike. All the footage of other Constitution class ships in TOS are either stock footage of the Enterprise or in the "Doomsday Machine" episode, and old AMT model dressed with a different hull registry.

davekill

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 06:47:39 PM »
I've just finished Start Trek Federation, by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. (ISBN 0-671-89423-4).

Chapter Ten (page 137 of my copy) is headed “London, Optimal Republic of Great Britain, Earth. Earth Standard June 21, 2078” and features a discussion between Zephram Cochrane and Adrik Thorsen (the baddie). It’s a BRILLIANT explanation of how the Starfleet emblem came about – might not be completely scientifically sound, but, then we’ve yet to discover warp speed, science may change its mind!

Reference this site - http://falcon.trekufp.org/databank/tos-federation.txt
And then search on (I used Cntrl-F) “then he drew”.

FYI the first diagram is of a star. representing light speed.


The next stage has an inverted V over the top of the star representing the energy expenditure curve (the faster you go, the more massive you are).

The final stage has an additional inverted V added below the star, offset slightly to the right representing "the literal, bottom-line energy expenditure for my superimpellor. It's well below infinity, easily obtainable from a basic matter-antimatter reaction. But look how it's offset--separated--from the standard energy expenditure of normal space-time"

Have a look at a Starfleet emblem, it’ll look incredibly familiar!!



Nice explanation by Zephram Cochrane himself ;)

I think I read on memory alpha that the Federation adopted the "arrow head" design for use as an insignia on the hauls of the rest of the fleet after it first appeared on the Enterprise.

I'm reading Diane Carey's Final Frontier. In this story of the early Starfleet, the Enterprise has no markings. Good book - a real page turner.

Offline Rico

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 06:58:50 PM »
If I remember correctly, the original Enterprise had the symbol in red along the side of the secondary hull. Is that true for the other ships too or did they all incorporate the same 'Enterprise' logo on the side?

The thing that strikes me from his is that there never was one Starfleet/Federation logo in the original series, or if there was, I never identified it.

Good question, Mike. All the footage of other Constitution class ships in TOS are either stock footage of the Enterprise or in the "Doomsday Machine" episode, and old AMT model dressed with a different hull registry.

I'll try and see what they did on the enhanced effects for some of the TOS episodes that show other Starships.

Offline Rico

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 07:30:38 PM »
Grabbed a couple screenshots off the enhanced "Doomsday Machine" episode of the Constellation.  Looks like they didn't change any of the ship markings from what was seen before in TOS.  Only the registry number was changed to NCC-1017 for Decker's ship.  This is a cool episode with some great added effects though.


Offline Bromptonboy

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Re: Origin of the starfleet emblem
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2009, 07:22:30 AM »
Grabbed a couple screenshots off the enhanced "Doomsday Machine" episode of the Constellation.  Looks like they didn't change any of the ship markings from what was seen before in TOS.  Only the registry number was changed to NCC-1017 for Decker's ship.  This is a cool episode with some great added effects though.


I have yet to watch the enhanced TOS episodes.  I had no idea that they did so much.  I'll have to see if they are on Netflix.  Are there any other particular episodes that got really kicked up a notch (to borrow Emeril's catchphrase)?  Thanks
Pete

 




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