Voyager Series finale was not that great... .

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

That and I always thought that a race of warriors that kicked butt so much and had big cool ships could surely make water somehow.

The Kazon were not warriors, they were thugs.  For example, their ships are not even their own, they were stolen from the Trabe who had previously enslaved the Kazon.  If someone gave you the starship Voyager, and then asked you to take the ship up into space and go to warp, would you be able to?  You'd be lucky if you find the light switch. :laugh:

Again though, it shows how much Paramount messed up. They had this amazing idea of sending a ship 75,000 light years away, the series to follow their journey and adventures. But all they could come up with was rubbish enemies in the form of The Kazon, too many lacklustre episodes and Neelix. A great opportunity wasted.

I happen to like most of the enemies, especially the Kazon.  I also liked Neelix, though he got a little goofy at times.  What was so bad about Neelix?

They kept going back to those bottle shows and it really became tedious.

Do you mean stand-alone episodes?

Same thing with Seven on VOY, she featured EXTREMELY heavily in many episodes. OK, I get it, she has big cans!

She was featured prominately, because she had a tragic backstory which made her fun to write for.  You should try to look past Jeri's breasts and see the rich and tragic character that is Seven of Nine.

would you agree that DS9 was far more in-depth and rewarding than VOY? and that the the finale of DS9 wrapped things off so much better than VOY?

I agree that DS9 is more in-depth and rewarding than VOY, but I think VOY had the better finale.  DS9's finale was about ending the war and saying goodbye.  VOY's finale was about getting home.  The latter story was more exciting.

I thought DS9 was terrific and a real departure for ST. It's almost a shame they felt the need to bring in the Defiant to get them off the station more, I always thought that was a cop out. But DS9 was so interesting and different.

The Defiant, or some kind of starship, was necessary.  Without it, the show would have been cancelled.  It needed to go somewhere to give the average TV viewer a reason to watch, because most people don't care who is visiting DS9 this week.

Kenny, I love VOY because it Trek back at it's roots. It's fun and exciting, just what we needed after the gravitas of DS9.

VOY was indeed a nice contrast to DS9.  DS9 featured a space station set in familiar territory with recurring characters where as VOY featured a starship constantly going somewhere new, constantly meeting someone new.

[Poodyglitz]

Talk about self indulgence, how about Vic frackin Fountaine in DS9! OK, I get it, B&B love the rate pack! They kept going back to those bottle shows and it really became tedious. That joke was good once, maybe twice. Same thing with Seven on VOY, she featured EXTREMELY heavily in many episodes. OK, I get it, she has big cans!

There was way too much of that kind of stuff on those shows. The Vic Fontaine thing had me rolling my eyes. I don't recall that I ever watched more than one full episode with him in it. For a franchise with the tagline, "To boldly go...", they sure did like to go retro a bit too much. In the case of 7 of 9, I viewed that as a crass and desparate attempt. Sure she looked great and part of the Trek credo is to showcase sexuality, but come on. I for one am drawn to science fiction to have people who think inspire me to think (with my mind, not my member).

Yes, there was a tragic aspect to 7 of 9, but somehow, I didn't care. I eventually did not care about any Voyager character. They lost me with the "tragic character" thing when they kept doing the "beat down" with Worf through DS9. There also seemed as though they were making some kind of veiled racial statement with pairing Worf with another character played by a white actress.

[Poodyglitz]

CJLP, I would definitely agree that DS9 had more going for it than Voyager. However, I still consider it a step down from TNG and TOS. I was hopeful though. The DS9 pilot was much stronger than TNG's, quasi-spiritual stuff notwithstanding.