Android Thread

[Bryancd]

As a business analysts I know the difference between censorship and managing a business. You don't have to agree with it, but it would behoove you in the future to be more aware and understanding of it. I don't feel I am denied Ap content due to what you perceive as censorship. And Tim I think you need to realize that for you technology is a hobby, perhaps a passion. You do blogs and podcasts about it and I assume your immediate per group is also very much involved with it. And that's cool, I have hobbies (triathlon) that take up a lot of my free time. I also have a career, a wife, a baby, so don't concern myself with contemplating the extra bit of user experience I might have with different devices as the one I am getting now is great for me. All my stuff works the was I want and I don't give it a second thought. Now, globally, I will tell you as someone who analysis business that there are way more of casual users like me out there as opposed to folks like you our Dan who take this more seriously. Same thing can be said for my hobby, in fact there are likely way fewer people who do the Ironman then are heavy into technology. The reality is that iOS works great for a lot of people, as evidenced by it's adoption. It's also a reality that the vast market of casual users around the world, especially in less affluent nations, that price will drive sales before the ability to change a widget or setting default pas, or the fact that Apple retains the right to choose which Aps to support. Your worldview is wonderfully egalitarian, I used to feel the same when I was in college. The realty, however, is a bit different.


And having said that, it's why Google is a better investment then Apple.

[X]

I'm loving my 8X. It has out of the box universal translator that's kind of hot.

[Dangelus]

This is no argument here and that's the point. Bryan had hit the nail on the head from his point of view and that's exactly what we're talking about here, different points of view. It's no surprise that an iOS user that hasn't used Android 4.+ would feel they are missing anything, especially if technology is just a tool and not a passion. If the ecosystem is sufficient for you then there is no problem.

I'm glad you mentioned your triathlon training as a passion in comparison to Tim's and my passion for technology because it is totally relevant. I'm sure there are methods and equipment, gear etc you would recommend over others from personal opinion, experience and because some have better features than others (for you). It is no different.

I'm interested to see what Apple do next though because I fell they are at the point where they need to do more or different. I've read reports they are under pressure by analysts to offer larger screen sizes for one. it will be interesting to see if they change their business model at all.


OK. Will try to keep this thread on topic but of course if you want to hear about the good and bad (and yes this is both!) of or experiences with Android you can always listen to TekoCratik ;)

[Feathers]

OK, I don't want to protract this off topic stuff too much further and I really don't want this to be seen as any sort of personal attack (OK Tim?) but I must confess that I'm at a complete loss as to how anyone thinks that the public has any right to decide what anyone (in this case Apple) should or shouldn't sell in their store. Maybe this is a UK/US difference, but this sort of attitude just doesn't make any sense to me.

It's extreme but the best illustration to explain what I mean is as follows:

I don't work in retail but I used to volunteer in the bookshop attached to our old church. To me, saying Apple should sell Apps they don't want to sell is akin to someone coming into that church bookshop and demanding the right to buy pornographic books. Not a chance, right? How is Apple different?

With a further hour to think on this, I think that what I'm saying is that I get why some people, personally don't like the Apple App Store model and so react as the market allows and go somewhere else. What I don't understand is why anyone attaches these emotive words like "censorship" to what is, essentially, a shopkeeper choosing what to stock.


(Sorry if I'm pushing this too far but I really want to understand. This sort of attitude has come up a few times over the last few years and I really am at a loss to understand it.)

[Bryancd]

This is no argument here and that's the point. Bryan had hit the nail on the head from his point of view and that's exactly what we're talking about here, different points of view. It's no surprise that an iOS user that hasn't used Android 4.+ would feel they are missing anything, especially if technology is just a tool and not a passion. If the ecosystem is sufficient for you then there is no problem.

I'm glad you mentioned your triathlon training as a passion in comparison to Tim's and my passion for technology because it is totally relevant. I'm sure there are methods and equipment, gear etc you would recommend over others from personal opinion, experience and because some have better features than others (for you). It is no different.

I'm interested to see what Apple do next though because I fell they are at the point where they need to do more or different. I've read reports they are under pressure by analysts to offer larger screen sizes for one. it will be interesting to see if they change their business model at all.


OK. Will try to keep this thread on topic but of course if you want to hear about the good and bad (and yes this is both!) of or experiences with Android you can always listen to TekoCratik ;)

Well said, Dan. And yes, Apple is at very tough time right now. iPhone and iPad and iOS will continue to be very popular and hold a certain high end cache in the market place, but like Sony in the '80's or Dell in the '90's, that luster won;t last forever without innovation. Where Apple succeeded was in creating new markets for products no one knew even existed. What companies like Google and Microsoft have done is come into existing markets and saturate it with product options at lower margins. I have zero doubt that Android will become the widest adopted mobile operating system in the world. It pretty much already is. The real issue I had with Tim's comment is one, as Mike said above, it's not censorship for a non-government entity to choose to support or not support a product and the contention that iOS doesn't work well. Clearly it does, it just may not work for a specific individuals use case well enough.

In regards to what I would recommend to someone for triathlon gear and training, yes, I have an informed opinion about what I think works best and what doesn't but I tend to temper that bias with the audience and for the more casual adopter, tailor that recomendation for their own goals, budget, act. And therein lies my personal feeling toward iOS, it just works great for what I want out of it.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

OK, I don't want to protract this off topic stuff too much further and I really don't want this to be seen as any sort of personal attack (OK Tim?) but I must confess that I'm at a complete loss as to how anyone thinks that the public has any right to decide what anyone (in this case Apple) should or shouldn't sell in their store. Maybe this is a UK/US difference, but this sort of attitude just doesn't make any sense to me.

It's extreme but the best illustration to explain what I mean is as follows:

I don't work in retail but I used to volunteer in the bookshop attached to our old church. To me, saying Apple should sell Apps they don't want to sell is akin to someone coming into that church bookshop and demanding the right to buy pornographic books. Not a chance, right? How is Apple different?

With a further hour to think on this, I think that what I'm saying is that I get why some people, personally don't like the Apple App Store model and so react as the market allows and go somewhere else. What I don't understand is why anyone attaches these emotive words like "censorship" to what is, essentially, a shopkeeper choosing what to stock.


(Sorry if I'm pushing this too far but I really want to understand. This sort of attitude has come up a few times over the last few years and I really am at a loss to understand it.)

Thinking about it, I believe my issue is that Apple has never been clear on what is and isn't tolerated on their store. (It's pretty easy to figure out what Christian bookstores will and won't sell). Had I known ahead of time what apps they were going to ban over the years, I never would have bought into iOS. I don't feel the book analogy completely works (though I get your point) because it's not like books rely on the store's say-so to be read. We can buy a book wherever we please and it will still "work". But if Apple says no, you can't buy apps for iOS anywhere else. And with a combination of vague and always-changing rules, I definitely don't like it. Maybe censorship is a harsh term to use...

And I suppose you're right, I don't get to tell Apple what they can and can't sell on the store. But that's why I'm leaving them because Android is not restricted to just Google Play, we have the ability to install from anyone. It's something I feel far more comfortable having that option than being restricted to one store anymore. It's why I have no plans of buying consoles or a potential future Windows version that is locked to Microsoft's store. (It's possible that could happen). Because I no longer feel that corporations should have the final say on what software is and isn't installed on my devices. Yeah, sure, the apps are less secure but as long as you play it smart like on Windows, you'll be fine.

Don't worry Feathers, I don't view it as a personal attack. I'm just in this for the discussion. At the end of the day, if you're fine with Apple or Windows Phone 7 or even Blackberry because it fits your needs, then that's a good thing.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

I'm loving my 8X. It has out of the box universal translator that's kind of hot.

A universal translator? Do you know what service it's running off of? I haven't seen a 8X in the wild.

[Bryancd]

iOS is a closed, proprietary OS, Apple doesn't deny that our try and sell it as something different. So it's at their discretion what they allow or not allow to run on it. Apple has always been a closed ecosystem, that's why they have been so successful integrating users starting with iPod and iTunes and moving that into iPhone and iPad. They are trying to sell something they are not, they are selling a user experience where all their proprietary software and hardware work together. If an Ap developer doesn't want to adhere to those limitations they are free to take their business elsewhere. That's not censorship, that's market selection.

[Feathers]

As a software engineer and someone who once developed a mobile app for personal use (Palm OS) the Apple restrictions would drive me mad. If I ever get made redundant and decide to enter the mobile market then it won't be Apple hardware I develop for. Despite that, however, and while I know the lock in to the App store makes this a somewhat unique case, at the macro level anyone who every develops a product runs the risk that no-one will sell it for them. This is not completely unique to iOS software. The fact of having nowhere else to go to sell does increase the risk to the dev, however.

As a consumer, it doesn't worry me since there are enough apps that do what I want (and that's all I care about). At the point that that becomes a real problem to me then I'd hope the loss of revenue would have already become a problem to Apple so that the lack of software doesn't kill the platform completely. I don't see that happening at the minute.

[X]

I'm loving my 8X. It has out of the box universal translator that's kind of hot.

A universal translator? Do you know what service it's running off of? I haven't seen a 8X in the wild.

It's stock with phone 8. What it does is translate anything you snap a pic of into any other language that you want. It then overlays the translation over the original text. It's great for picking out restaurants in china town.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

I'm loving my 8X. It has out of the box universal translator that's kind of hot.

A universal translator? Do you know what service it's running off of? I haven't seen a 8X in the wild.

It's stock with phone 8. What it does is translate anything you snap a pic of into any other language that you want. It then overlays the translation over the original text. It's great for picking out restaurants in china town.

Huh, that's pretty neat, don't think I've heard of anyone else doing something like that.

[Feathers]

I'm loving my 8X. It has out of the box universal translator that's kind of hot.

A universal translator? Do you know what service it's running off of? I haven't seen a 8X in the wild.

It's stock with phone 8. What it does is translate anything you snap a pic of into any other language that you want. It then overlays the translation over the original text. It's great for picking out restaurants in china town.

Now that could be a useful feature! Not one I've heard of before.

[X]

 this is how it looks. granted this is a very quick cap and translate.