SimCity (5) 2013 Thread

KingIsaacLinksr · March 14, 2013, 12:25:47 PM

Oh does it get better....

The news gets better (and by better I mean frakkin worse) as it is confirmed that SimCity can be modded relatively easily to work always offline. (So much for all that hard work it would take to make it work offline as they said repeatedly) Saves aren't possible atm but that wouldn't be hard to fix from EA's end. So basically, EA, Maxis and a lot of people lied to their customers to install always online DRM into it. Which makes no sense at all to me. Why risk their reputation and why lie about it so fervently when they should know by now that modders could find out the truth within weeks? I'm still waiting for EA's and Maxis' explanation for their behavior at this point but so far, its been silence. Which says a lot.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/14/modder-runs-simcity-offline-maxis-remains-silent/

X · March 14, 2013, 02:11:46 PM

From what you posted, it doesn't work offline. parts of it work, but as a whole, it doesn't work. That's not a lie. I'm trying hard here to be neutral, but in my world, I like to play games where I don't have to worry about people hacking and cheating. Sure it happens, but when there are consequences, it happens less.

I'm under the firm camp of "if you don't like it, don't buy it." I really can't see why there is a need to even discuss it. I don't like the revisions of Star Wars and I don't buy it. I'm not breaking into Skywalker ranch and stealing the negatives to recut the movies to the way they were.

At the end of the day it's all about choices. Choose to buy or not to buy, but people should really stop bitching about not getting their way when they aren't being forced to purchase it.

You know before you buy it that it's an online thing. You know before you buy it that it's subject to go offline if servers fail or power fails. You know before you buy it that it's not for off line play. Not because they have no way of doing it, but because this is the path that the developers decided to go it. Even 2 hours of trying to make it available offline for play is 2 hours too much when that's not the product that you are choosing to make.

ChrisMC · March 14, 2013, 02:44:31 PM

I agree with you. I've taken a buyer beware approach to game purchases nowadays, part of why I rented Colonial Marines rather than spend 60 bucks on it. After playing it, I made the right choice. I'm not butthurt because the game was sub-par, just disappointed.

Dangelus · March 14, 2013, 02:55:07 PM

It's a shame you can't rent (most) PC games too.

ChrisMC · March 14, 2013, 03:04:35 PM

Quote from: Dangelus on March 14, 2013, 02:55:07 PM
It's a shame you can't rent (most) PC games too.

Yes, and some of the new XBox rumors are based around the fact that Microsoft wants to do away with rentals and used games. Very silly if true, would be a strange step. I've bought so many games that I either rented or borrowed from a friend. I think perhaps PC games should allow for trial periods, since I'm not primarily a PC gamer I don't know how prevalent demos are. The last PC only game I own is Starcraft 2.

KingIsaacLinksr · March 14, 2013, 03:19:52 PM

Quote from: X on March 14, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
From what you posted, it doesn't work offline. parts of it work, but as a whole, it doesn't work. That's not a lie. I'm trying hard here to be neutral, but in my world, I like to play games where I don't have to worry about people hacking and cheating. Sure it happens, but when there are consequences, it happens less.

I'm under the firm camp of "if you don't like it, don't buy it." I really can't see why there is a need to even discuss it. I don't like the revisions of Star Wars and I don't buy it. I'm not breaking into Skywalker ranch and stealing the negatives to recut the movies to the way they were.

At the end of the day it's all about choices. Choose to buy or not to buy, but people should really stop bitching about not getting their way when they aren't being forced to purchase it.

You know before you buy it that it's an online thing. You know before you buy it that it's subject to go offline if servers fail or power fails. You know before you buy it that it's not for off line play. Not because they have no way of doing it, but because this is the path that the developers decided to go it. Even 2 hours of trying to make it available offline for play is 2 hours too much when that's not the product that you are choosing to make.

The only parts that don't work are the true online components. Leaderboards, multiplayer, achievements, stuff like that. What people are accusing them of lying on was how much work it would take to make the base game itself possible to be played offline. EA stated multiple times that it would take a lot of work to make the engine work offline and we have video proof here that shows otherwise. The base game is working offline.

If EA simply doesn't want an offline mode because they want to prevent cheating, piracy and other related items from happening, then just flat out tell us. There is no reason to do this circle-circus around the issue and make such claims like about the engine being integrated into "the cloud" when it clearly isn't. Which really confuses me why they didn't just say that.

Ubisoft stated for years that the DRM was being used to fight piracy and while people didn't like it, they could at least respect their position on the issue. It was pretty much ineffective but what the hey...

I'm personally tired of developers always trying to pull this veil over our eyes with stuff like this.

As for the rental comment, I personally wish Demos were a forced and set standard in the industry. This guessing game on which games are good/aren't good is tiresome. There is 0 harm in letting the customer try before they buy. If nothing else, it lowers the workload on your customer service.

Octeris · March 14, 2013, 04:18:55 PM

Quote from: X on March 14, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
I'm under the firm camp of "if you don't like it, don't buy it." I really can't see why there is a need to even discuss it. I don't like the revisions of Star Wars and I don't buy it. I'm not breaking into Skywalker ranch and stealing the negatives to recut the movies to the way they were.

I can certainly understand why people would be interested in discussing a newly released video game considering the extensive issues with both the game and the servers, as well as the nightmare of a PR event this has been for EA/Maxis.

Quote from: X on March 14, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
You know before you buy it that it's an online thing. You know before you buy it that it's subject to go offline if servers fail or power fails. You know before you buy it that it's not for off line play. Not because they have no way of doing it, but because this is the path that the developers decided to go it. Even 2 hours of trying to make it available offline for play is 2 hours too much when that's not the product that you are choosing to make.

And EA/Maxis used the city simulation as justification for why the always-online DRM was necessary when their servers could not handle the load. Pehaps Bradshaw, Maxis general manager, was misled by her studio?

"With the way that the game works, we offload a significant amount of the calculations to our servers so that the computations are off the local PCs and are moved into the cloud. It wouldn't be possible to make the game offline without a significant amount of engineering work by our team."

http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/9/4081464/simcity-interview-ea-maxis-lucy-bradshaw

Games don't have to be made this way. If you choose to make your game require always-online DRM in order to stave off pirates then do it right, you owe it to your customers. Otherwise remove it (or do not put it in the game in the first place, pirates will crack your game anyway). If all else fails refund your customers (EA/Maxis has been wishy-washy granting refunds to customers).

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/ea-not-altering-return-policy-for-furious-simcity-buyers/

This is a failure on all counts for EA/Maxis, but it's also another important lesson for video game consumers.

Rico · March 14, 2013, 04:29:51 PM

The more you guys talk about this game the more I want to buy it - even with some of the issues.

KingIsaacLinksr · March 14, 2013, 05:39:03 PM

Quote from: Octeris on March 14, 2013, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: X on March 14, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
I'm under the firm camp of "if you don't like it, don't buy it." I really can't see why there is a need to even discuss it. I don't like the revisions of Star Wars and I don't buy it. I'm not breaking into Skywalker ranch and stealing the negatives to recut the movies to the way they were.
I can certainly understand why people would be interested in discussing a newly released video game considering the extensive issues with both the game and the servers, as well as the nightmare of a PR event this has been for EA/Maxis.

And this is why I created the thread. It's to discuss this game and the implications of always-online DRM. Which none of them are any good if Diablo 3 and SimCity 5 is anything to go by. It is not to pointlessly bitch about how EA/Maxis made a game I don't agree with. I have my own blog for things like that and I don't even do it over there. At the end of the day, if SimCity doesn't want my money, that's their problem not mine but it does concern me that game companies seem to want to put in always online DRM into videogames when their servers and the entire Internet infrastructure cannot handle the stress of consumers utilizing those services. It's also really questionable selling a game for $60+ when the servers aren't working after a week. Heck, when they aren't working after a couple of days.

X · March 14, 2013, 05:48:19 PM

Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on March 14, 2013, 05:39:03 PM
Quote from: Octeris on March 14, 2013, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: X on March 14, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
I'm under the firm camp of "if you don't like it, don't buy it." I really can't see why there is a need to even discuss it. I don't like the revisions of Star Wars and I don't buy it. I'm not breaking into Skywalker ranch and stealing the negatives to recut the movies to the way they were.
I can certainly understand why people would be interested in discussing a newly released video game considering the extensive issues with both the game and the servers, as well as the nightmare of a PR event this has been for EA/Maxis.

And this is why I created the thread. It's to discuss this game and the implications of always-online DRM. Which none of them are any good if Diablo 3 and SimCity 5 is anything to go by. It is not to pointlessly bitch about how EA/Maxis made a game I don't agree with. I have my own blog for things like that and I don't even do it over there. At the end of the day, if SimCity doesn't want my money, that's their problem not mine but it does concern me that game companies seem to want to put in always online DRM into videogames when their servers and the entire Internet infrastructure cannot handle the stress of consumers utilizing those services. It's also really questionable selling a game for $60+ when the servers aren't working after a week. Heck, when they aren't working after a couple of days.

I think that you billing it as Always online DRM is what is coloring your perspective. I see it as an online game no different than any other online game like WOW. Server issues happen, but they also get corrected. They are also giving away a free EA game because of the issues. I think that's pretty fair. My isp doesn't give me freebies when my internet lags or fails.

Rico · March 14, 2013, 06:02:39 PM

Chris, to your two points. I've played WOW a very long time. In cases of any significant server issues they have always compensated players with additional time to their account. Also, when I've had trouble with Comcast they also have compensated us with credit. It's not a 'freebie' - it's getting the service I have paid for. For this Sim City game & EA since there isn't a monthy fee to play the game their only simple way to compensate people for the issues was some type of game content. Especially since they didn't seem to want to accept returns on the game.

Octeris · March 14, 2013, 06:41:12 PM

Quote from: X on March 14, 2013, 05:48:19 PM
I think that you billing it as Always online DRM is what is coloring your perspective. I see it as an online game no different than any other online game like WOW. Server issues happen, but they also get corrected. They are also giving away a free EA game because of the issues. I think that's pretty fair. My isp doesn't give me freebies when my internet lags or fails.

If it quacks like a duck I call it a duck. It is always-online DRM. When the servers fail to support the authentication used ultimately to prevent piracy legitimate customers cannot play their game.

The difference here is that SimCity could be largely offline. Nothing says the region syncing has to be always-online, the game still works when you get disconnected from the region/server for a bit. In World of Warcraft there is an understanding that a large portion of the game experience is ultimately driven by interacting with other players in real-time, if you get disconnected you can't keep playing. SimCity may have regions but that is not the same thing as the persistent virtual world that is presented in World of Warcraft from the very moment you begin playing.

KingIsaacLinksr · March 14, 2013, 06:59:27 PM

I've noticed that EA hasn't mentioned which game is actually free. So whether that turns out to be something good remains to be seen. I think they should have just given their players free DLC or something in-game because then your more likely to give them something they want rather than some random game they pulled out of their Origin store.

And its still online DRM. If you want to talk about SimCity as an online service, well, its still been one bad service that still isn't fixed. From a company that is more than experienced with online gaming for the past decade. They really should have been prepared for the launch day and from what I can tell...they weren't even close to prepared. Not even for pre-order customers which again...confuses me. So either way you look at it...well...

Jobydrone · March 15, 2013, 05:26:54 PM

What other products or services are out there where a consumer would find it acceptable or make excuses when they don't work for the first week after buying it? What's so special about online games like Diablo, WoW, or Sim City that they get a pass, when absolutely anything else would be returned indignantly with a demand for an immediate, full refund? I find it the ultimate display of disdain for their customers to refuse refund requests...it's like this company has made every blunder in the book when it comes to this launch.

Feathers · April 09, 2013, 02:54:59 PM

I used to sink hours into Sim City, generally the wee small hours, and I probably still could if I actually got hold of the game but the online stuff does annoy me. Not enough to stop me buying it since I'm not going to anyway but the fact that I'd be reliant on someone else's system to be able to play the game I paid for is something I struggle to accept.

From Kindle books to DRMd games, the world seems to be transitioning to a rental model on the quiet. Chris was pointing out the games he used to rent and I see pretty much everything we get hold of online moving to a rental model. If someone else can turn my game off from a remote site simply by shutting down a server, then I've purchased nothing, simply leased some indeterminate amount of play time. If all I get is a lease agreement, then why are the prices the same as those games I used to be able to own outright?