UK Retailer produces and sells 94,000 Counterfeit Windows CDs, Microsoft to sue.

Dangelus · January 05, 2012, 08:19:06 AM

Quote from: X on January 05, 2012, 06:02:28 AM
this is a problem that this has zero to do with Microsoft. It's the people that are building the computers that are responsible for getting the license for OEM discs from Microsoft. To cut costs, they stopped doing that. The companies did put in tools for the users to make their own backup discs and that's fine. The problem is that this company seems to be selling OEM discs for a profit without giving Microsoft their cut. I think that they KNOW full well what they were doing in selling those discs because each company has their own tools on their systems for restoring them now. Most have backup programs in addition to their recovery partitions.

Ignorance isn't going to cut it on this one.

Yeah you're right, it isn't that Microsoft stopped supplying the discs it's that the OEMs decided not to pay for them to be included. What Comet could have done is preached Microsoft directly and struck I deal to supply recovery discs to their customers instead of trying to make a quick buck ths way.

Feathers · January 05, 2012, 08:45:47 AM

Well if they were charging for them then they're asking for whatever comes there way as a result.

I'm still pretty surprised, they've been around long enough (i.e. since before personal computers even existed) to know what's what in this area. They either went into this with their eyes open or they're employing some exceptionally naive people in decision making positions.

Rico · January 05, 2012, 08:50:43 AM

To me, I see it as a service. If someone has purchased a PC with a legal copy of Windows on it and doesn't want to take the time to make their own backup copy, then I see no reason to pay someone or some service for a backup copy. Now, if they were selling discs to people who didn't buy PC's, that's another matter. Another way Microsoft could stop a lot of this would be to make it easy to "Cloud Install" Windows once you are registered as a Genuine Windows user. Or some type of program to help people with a very real problem in their system. I can't tell you how many people I know who get frustrated after buying a PC and not having backup discs for it. Most people will never make them.

Feathers · January 05, 2012, 08:55:01 AM

I agree and that was my first thought but I think having a factory-type manufacturing setup will play against that arguement if it goes to court.

Having someone in the shop make a recovery disk from the computer you actually purchased would have been much more defensible.

Dangelus · January 05, 2012, 08:56:16 AM

Quote from: Rico on January 05, 2012, 08:50:43 AM
To me, I see it as a service. If someone has purchased a PC with a legal copy of Windows on it and doesn't want to take the time to make their own backup copy, then I see no reason to pay someone or some service for a backup copy. Now, if they were selling discs to people who didn't buy PC's, that's another matter. Another way Microsoft could stop a lot of this would be to make it easy to "Cloud Install" Windows once you are registered as a Genuine Windows user. Or some type of program to help people with a very real problem in their system. I can't tell you how many people I know who get frustrated after buying a PC and not having backup discs for it. Most people will never make them.

I think an issue that will come up is that in the UK we don't have any legislation for fair use policy that allows the legal backup of copyrighted material as you do in the US.

X · January 05, 2012, 05:22:31 PM

Quote from: Rico on January 05, 2012, 08:50:43 AM
To me, I see it as a service. If someone has purchased a PC with a legal copy of Windows on it and doesn't want to take the time to make their own backup copy, then I see no reason to pay someone or some service for a backup copy. Now, if they were selling discs to people who didn't buy PC's, that's another matter. Another way Microsoft could stop a lot of this would be to make it easy to "Cloud Install" Windows once you are registered as a Genuine Windows user. Or some type of program to help people with a very real problem in their system. I can't tell you how many people I know who get frustrated after buying a PC and not having backup discs for it. Most people will never make them.

There's a huge difference between a system backup and a forged copy of windows. The key point is that they were selling these discs to anyone that came in looking for recovery discs. Basically, you could crash your computer and go their and pay 14.99 and get a recovery disc even if you didn't buy your computer there. They were selling windows illegally to anyone that had the money. Their blaming MS is kind of crappy because MS didn't decided to stop providing the discs. That's tantamount to blaming iPODs from coming with no music and charging 15 bucks to load it with anything then blaming Apple.

X · January 05, 2012, 05:29:33 PM

More info

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jan/04/microsoft-sue-comet-windows-discs

There are lines that they crossed.

Here's a quick example. Selling Preburned Restore Discs are a crime.

Charging someone to burn their recovery discs with the manufacturer's provided backup software is not a crime.

One is profiting off counterfeit goods and the other is being paid for a service that you can legally provide.

I think it became a crime when they had a warehouse pumping out the fake discs.

Feathers · January 06, 2012, 05:42:43 AM

Quote from: X on January 05, 2012, 05:29:33 PM
More info

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jan/04/microsoft-sue-comet-windows-discs

There are lines that they crossed.

Here's a quick example. Selling Preburned Restore Discs are a crime.

Charging someone to burn their recovery discs with the manufacturer's provided backup software is not a crime.

One is profiting off counterfeit goods and the other is being paid for a service that you can legally provide.

I think it became a crime when they had a warehouse pumping out the fake discs.

Pretty much what I think.

Hmmm, perhaps I'd better go and buy a restore disk before they go under!

Rico · January 06, 2012, 06:08:43 AM

Chris, I've been mainly talking in general terms and not exactly about this particular case. I've gone to a lot of computer trade shows in the past where discs like this were for sale out in the open. Again, I think it might not be Microsoft's fault but they do have ways to stop this that in my view are easier. As long as people buy computers without backup discs this will continue to be a problem.

Meds · January 06, 2012, 01:33:11 PM

They should have backup discs in the pack really shouldn't they.

Dangelus · January 06, 2012, 01:38:56 PM

Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on January 06, 2012, 01:33:11 PM
They should have backup discs in the pack really shouldn't they.

Well yes but somebody has to pay for them. Microsoft doesn't have a problem supplying them if somebody pays. The manufacturers stopped paying for it so they weren't included. I think part of the reason for this is that people like PC World would rather you take out there care package so they can charge you £80 to remove a virus from your system by just sticking a disc in restoring your PC to factory settings.

Afaik Comet don't do this so maybe they genuinely thought they were providing a service by making these discs but as I said they should have tried to do a deal directly with Microsoft to supply these discs instead to pirating them.

Meds · January 06, 2012, 01:40:22 PM

PC World, urghh Dan, how could you say those words, oh i feel all giddy :p

Dangelus · January 06, 2012, 01:44:21 PM

I know! A horrible place only to be ventured into if the price is right and you know what you want. :)

Personally whenever I've bought a ready made PC the first thing I do is wipe the hard disc and install a fresh copy of the OS anyway!

X · January 06, 2012, 04:45:51 PM

Quote from: Rico on January 06, 2012, 06:08:43 AM
Chris, I've been mainly talking in general terms and not exactly about this particular case. I've gone to a lot of computer trade shows in the past where discs like this were for sale out in the open. Again, I think it might not be Microsoft's fault but they do have ways to stop this that in my view are easier. As long as people buy computers without backup discs this will continue to be a problem.

I understand what you are saying, but I just can't agree with it. PC makers have decided not to include recovery discs and have installed tools to allow for creating your own free of charge. Rather than just making the discs, people are buying illegal copies in which Microsoft is not making a penny of it.

If the folks at Comet were honestly thinking about their customers, they would have just given them away instead of turning a profit and not kicking some back to MS.

What I really don't get is how we are trying to justify being lazy. When you setup your PC, it has on the main page of most of them a button to click to start the burn process. All you need to do is click a button and then put in the discs.

If there is a demand for the disc, then the retailers should be talking to the manufacturers and asking them to start including the discs again and passing the cost to the customers.

I think MS is in the right here because this has nothing at all to do with their business practices. They provide the product and have a means to provide the recovery discs. If the people that are making the computers pass on that, the buck needs to stop with them and it's their mess to clean up. I also know what you're saying about trade shows, but it doesn't make it right or legal. Hell, I can point you to a million and one places that sell knock off designer clothing in retail shops. They make a killing on it and continue to do it because it's cheaper for them to cheat and hope they don't get caught. It's also money that the people that created it are being denied.

I know that you're an inventor, but if you owned the royalties rights of your products, how would it make you feel if someone else was using your tech without you seeing anything at all from it? Sure it might be an exclusive and patented process, but it's something people need and if your company isn't providing it for everyone, why get mad when someone else does?

The big picture here is that Comet failed to educate their customers and instead chose to take a easy road where they could reap easy profits. Mass production of the discs would seriously save on man hours of having to do it in the store for the customer or educating them on how to burn those disc.

They found a way to make a quick buck at the expense of someone that didn't really have a dog in the fight. I'm glad that they are being held accountable.