Time Travel

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

Do you believe time travel is possible?  I do.  Unfortunately, I don't believe God would allow people to travel through time.

[markinro]

Time travel is not only possible but we learned in physics it happens at the atomic level all the time.   

For as guys/gals, time travel into the future is more likely but I doubt we can develop the technology.  Einstein showed you only have to approach the speed of light. 

Time travel is nice to think about but it will always remain in the sci-fi realm.

[moyer777]

I knew you guys were going to post that before you did.

:)

[Locutus]

What does God have to do with time travel? Why would He care? He already knows what's going to happen. Sounds like time travel to me, at the quantum level.

I think more to the point, dimensional travel. If, quantumly, all things are happening at all moments, we should be able to literally move from any moment to any moment. If we could figure a way to harness that power, we would be able to prove or disprove things like Evolution, or Jesus dying on the cross and coming back. You'd think God would be fine with humanity knowing those things for sure.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

For as guys/gals, time travel into the future is more likely but I doubt we can develop the technology.  Einstein showed you only have to approach the speed of light.

Why is travel to the future more likely than travel to the past?  Having to reach the speed of light to travel through time is a bit impractical, though.  Besides, what does going fast have to do with time travel? ???

What does God have to do with time travel? Why would He care? He already knows what's going to happen. Sounds like time travel to me, at the quantum level.

I believe God to be both linear and nonlinear.  He knows what's going to happen, because he can see the past, present, and future all at once like when we look at a map of the world.  However, he's linear in that he can interract with us.  It's difficult to explain and to understand myself.  Why would he care about people traveling through time?  Man is, by nature, selfish.  If man could travel through time, he would try to manipulate the timeline to create his vision of the world.  He would, effectively, try to play god.  That's why I believe God would not allow time travel.  However, let's say there's that one, special man who is responsible enough to travel through time without changing the timeline.  What if a bad guy gets his hands on the time machine and goes back in time to prevent Hitler's death or ensure the Cuban Missle Crisis resulted in a nuclear attack on the U.S?  Woops!  Yeah... God won't allow time travel.  At least... not for a long time, anyway.

I think more to the point, dimensional travel. If, quantumly, all things are happening at all moments, we should be able to literally move from any moment to any moment. If we could figure a way to harness that power, we would be able to prove or disprove things like Evolution, or Jesus dying on the cross and coming back. You'd think God would be fine with humanity knowing those things for sure.

I don't believe in parallel realities.  It makes for a good story, but that's all.

[markinro]

What ?   You can travel in time without approaching the speed of light ?  Some sites to visit...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/time/think.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/timetravel.html

There was good show on PBS a number of years ago discussing Einsteins theory and its implications
- you don't actual travel into the future but time slows down for you while everyone else is at a "normal" rate (dilation)
- time travel is only possible in one direction and you can never travel at 186,000 mps - you can only approach this speed
- time travel reqires movement (i.e. speed)

The theories exist and there has been studies but most have concluded its not possible.

Of course, in the movies they conveniently ignore these facts.  That's ok - its more entertaining.

[Locutus]

Hindus believe in infinite realities. It's more than a good story to them.

Why is man selfish by nature? What proof of this do you have? Why do you think time travelers can't be responsible?

Let's examine God for moment. If God allows free will, he allows us to make the mistakes He's already seen us make. If that's the case, He has no choice but to allow us to, assuming we can figure it out, time travel and mess things up as much as we will. (In fact, what makes you think we already haven't, and what is going on now isn't a direct influence of time travelers?) Of course, this also means He does not grant "wishes" (prayers) and perform miracles on our behalf. If he did, then belief in Him would not be a matter of faith, and God would be no better than an ATM, to be accessed whenever we needed it. And if you think man is selfish now, wait until he has access to the Cosmic Bank.

On the other side, let's say God does not allow time travel. What else has he not allowed? And if He picks and chooses what we are allowed to do, we can just do whatever we want until he tells us we can't. For instance, if God didn't want gay marriage, He would just not let people be gay, or ever allow them to be married, i.e. struck dead at the wedding. But, since over 8000 couples have been married in Massachusetts, by this reasoning it's just fine, and He obviously doesn't care. Same with fetal stem-cell research; if He didn't like it, He just wouldn't allow us to do it. ipso facto, it's just fine.

Third option - God allows us to do things until we cross a line. Of course, we do not know where that line is, and won't until we cross it, and then we incur some sort of penalty at His whim. And then the penalty may or may not fit the crime, so we may or may not understand what we've done wrong, and may or may not be able to fix it. I don't know about you, but this seems like an unreasonable way to run a planet. And if it is, then God is unreasonable, and we can pretty much ignore His controls, at least until He destroys us all for eliminating the garden slug.

At any rate, humanity is, by definition, free to pursue any science we deem useful, regardless of God. When He wants us to stop, we'll know.

Now, ethically, well, that's a completely different story.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

What ?   You can travel in time without approaching the speed of light ?

Uh... I didn't say that.  Read more carefully.  I said having to travel to the speed of light to travel through time is impractical.  I did not say it was possible without reaching the speed of light.

There was good show on PBS a number of years ago discussing Einsteins theory and its implications
- you don't actual travel into the future but time slows down for you while everyone else is at a "normal" rate (dilation)
- time travel is only possible in one direction and you can never travel at 186,000 mps - you can only approach this speed
- time travel reqires movement (i.e. speed)

Now see, this doesn't make sense to me.  How can you be going at the speed of light yet be experiencing a slower rate of time simultaneously?  Your ship is going the speed of light, yet the contents are practically at a stand still?  How is that possible?  It doesn't make sense!

Why would time travel be limited to one direction?

Why must time travel require movement?  Why not find an alternative method of time travel?  For example, how about tearing a hole into existance itself?

Of course, in the movies they conveniently ignore these facts.  That's ok - its more entertaining.

I agree.  That's why it's science-fiction and not science-fact. :laugh:

I do believe time travel to the past and future is possible, and I believe it's possible to do so without going to light speed.  How to do so, however, is beyond me.  I would imagine that one could do so by tearing a hole in the fabric of the universe, creating a temporal rift.  This temporal rift would allow you to exit linear existance and then return to a selected destination.  I believe this to be the most practical form of time travel.  The question is... how do we create a temporal rift and select destinations? :blink

[Rico]

Just a slight word of warning.  This forum is not really the place for topics of religion, God, etc.  Obviously people can believe in anything they would like but I'm asking that it not become a topic here.  It will only lead to problems.  Thanks for your cooperation.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

Hindus believe in infinite realities. It's more than a good story to them.

The Hindus are welcome to believe in whatever they want, just don't expect me to share that beliefe.

Why is man selfish by nature? What proof of this do you have? Why do you think time travelers can't be responsible?

Every man, woman, and child will do what is in their best interest until a parent, friend, or someone steps in and teaches them to put others first.  Most of us are taught to do so as a very young child and thus conveniently forget how selfish we were as kids.  Why do I think time travelers can't be responsible?  Every time I ask someone what they would do if they went back in time, they either tell me they'd alter the past or witness a historic event.  Those who alter the past are irresponsible.  Those who witness a historic event alter the past simply by being there.  Time travel to the future doesn't hurt a thing.  It's when you go to the past (or to the future and then back in time) that the timeline is easilly damaged.  Traveling back in time must be very carefully calculated so you can observe without making any significant changes.

Let's examine God for moment. If God allows free will, he allows us to make the mistakes He's already seen us make. If that's the case, He has no choice but to allow us to, assuming we can figure it out, time travel and mess things up as much as we will. (In fact, what makes you think we already haven't, and what is going on now isn't a direct influence of time travelers?) Of course, this also means He does not grant "wishes" (prayers) and perform miracles on our behalf. If he did, then belief in Him would not be a matter of faith, and God would be no better than an ATM, to be accessed whenever we needed it. And if you think man is selfish now, wait until he has access to the Cosmic Bank.

I believe God does indeed allow free will.  God does grant prayers and perform miracles, but not necessarily on our behalf.  He will answer prayers and perform miracles as he sees fit.  He always answers our prayers, but rarely how we see fit.  Perfect example: when my collie dog died, I prayed for another one.  Instead, I got a german shepperd.  However, she mated with a half-collie and give birth to a dog that has strong collie features and colors.  In hindsight, I realise I didn't ask for a pure-breed, I simply asked for a collie: God answered my prayer, just not in the way I expected.  Other times, we will pray for something to happen, and the outcome we want does not come to pass.  Does that mean God ignored the prayer?  No.  He heard the prayer.  The thing is, he sees the bigger picture that is the world and will thus allow some events to come to pass that we don't like.  Of coarse, we want the world to happen OUR WAY, not God's way.  Man is self-centered, sadly.  People rarely stop to ask what God wants.

As for the time travel issue... God can prevent man from traveling through time without interfereing with free will.  For example, if God doesn't want you to go to X place on X day... a tree might fall down and block the road.  It's that simple, really.  It doesn't require God to show up and perform this big, supernatural event.

On the other side, let's say God does not allow time travel. What else has he not allowed? And if He picks and chooses what we are allowed to do, we can just do whatever we want until he tells us we can't. For instance, if God didn't want gay marriage, He would just not let people be gay, or ever allow them to be married, i.e. struck dead at the wedding. But, since over 8000 couples have been married in Massachusetts, by this reasoning it's just fine, and He obviously doesn't care. Same with fetal stem-cell research; if He didn't like it, He just wouldn't allow us to do it. ipso facto, it's just fine.

There are numerous things God has now allowed.  For example, ee's not allowed the tower of Babylon to be completed.  We can do whatever we want, period.  If it's something God does not want to happen, seemingly normal circumstances will occur to stop us.  If God stopped people from being gay, that would violate free will.  He doesn't want to do that.  Instead, he allows people to be gay (I don't know why) and allows gay marriage (don't ask me why).  I believe homosexuallity is just one of many things that will culminate in the end of the world as prophecied by the Holy Bible's book of Revelations.  However, we'll save that for another time.  Let's stick to time travel and wether or not God would allow that.  God and free will is naturally an extension of that discussion.  By the way, God allowing something to happen does not necessarily mean he's OK with it.

Third option - God allows us to do things until we cross a line. Of course, we do not know where that line is, and won't until we cross it, and then we incur some sort of penalty at His whim. And then the penalty may or may not fit the crime, so we may or may not understand what we've done wrong, and may or may not be able to fix it. I don't know about you, but this seems like an unreasonable way to run a planet. And if it is, then God is unreasonable, and we can pretty much ignore His controls, at least until He destroys us all for eliminating the garden slug.

Of coarse we know where that line is.  The Holy Bible gives indepth explanations of what is and is not acceptable.  We are free to ignore God's word, but we should be willing to accept the consequences.  Granted, those consequences will vary from person to person.  I would be willing to explain why in a PM, because it is very complicated.

I believe in God and accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.  I believe in having love for everyone and hatred for no one.  I believe in putting other people before myself, within reason.  I believe that the Holy Bible is the word of God and that any translation errors ultimately do not change the message of the Bible.  What good would it be if he allowed man to screw it up?  This is what I believe and how I live.  You're welcome to believe and live however you want.  That is up to you and you alone.

At any rate, humanity is, by definition, free to pursue any science we deem useful, regardless of God. When He wants us to stop, we'll know.  Now, ethically, well, that's a completely different story.

True, we are free to pursue any science we want, but... which is more responsible... being careless and waiting for God to step in... or being wise and deciding not to go too far?

Just a slight word of warning.  This forum is not really the place for topics of religion, God, etc.  Obviously people can believe in anything they would like but I'm asking that it not become a topic here.  It will only lead to problems.  Thanks for your cooperation.

I hope you don't mind my response to Locutus.  However, you're right... this thread is for discussion on time travel, not faith and religion.  I'm sorry if we got off topic. :-[

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

This thread has gotten severely off topic.  Someone, please close this thread so I can restart the discussion.

[Rico]

You have a new PM Mr. Picard.  And yes - this thread is done.