....this is doc.....i have posted on many boards about Captain James T. Kirk only to be disappointed at the replies.....am i the last fan of Captain Kirk? I grew up with Captain Kirk as my hero....(i am 40 yrs old) Please say it isn't so.....i have come to this place......sacred ground.....to get the opinions of the Star Trek fans themselves.....in my first podcast: Heroes of Science Fiction and Fantasy (i have 7 episodes completed) my first subject was: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan..........for a reason...........(i will start number 8 sometime this week).....but i thought the old Captain Kirk was going to be in the next movie....and was pumped up.....but now....it doesn't look good....a scene between Spock and Kirk sitting in front of the fireplace .....remembering back to the good old days....sits well with me.....I also want to know if anyone has any ideas about how to contact the studio and start a campaign to get the old Kirk in the upcoming movie....that is.... if there are any Kirk fans out there.......i might be a dinosaur and not know it.....for a quick link to the itunes podcast www.heroesofsciencefictionandfantasy.com or to just listen at your computer.....
Doc,
I know you are not alone. There are many, including myself, who view Captain Kirk as a hero and love the character. Sadly, I think that William Shatner is just too old to play Kirk effectively anymore and I think that the character is not defined by the actor portraying the character. What if Shakespeare would no longer be performed because Sir Laurence Olivier had defined roles that now people could not or would not watch anyone else in the role. Well, how ridiculous this would be! Kirk lives and a new generation of fans will hopefully discover this wonderful character created by Gene Roddenberry and brought to life by William Shatner!
Kevin
......i am saying that the scene would be Spock and Kirk as older men sitting by a fireplace....thinking back of the days of old....and then they could flash back and introduce the new cast.....i think that would just be a tip of the hat to the two and add a touch of class to the new movie.....and a passing of the torch....
That would be great to begin the movie with Shatner and Nimoy, then seque into the story.
If you ever want to see these guys reminiscing about old times get "Mind Meld, secrets behind the voyage of a lifetime". I'm sure a lot of it was loosely scripted - but it's a lot of fun.
My hope with this new movie is that Abrams does not change Kirk's character so much, that us fans of TOS can't recognize him .
Don't get me wrong - I think the world of Picard and Sisko. I couldn't quite figure out Janeway, but Kirk was unique.
Kirk as played by Bill Shatner was an invention of Gene Roddenberry . A character created at the time when Westerns where popular and the good guys always wore the white hats, except "Hopalong Cassidy" that is.
Anyway Shatner's enthusiasm, since of humor and energy made James T. Kirk come to life as a quick witted , two fisted, leader who most always landed on his feet.
Point is, Capt. Kirk was a "tough guy" hero. I liked "Enterprise" for the same reason - because Capt. Archer had to get tougher (and maybe more cynical) as the series progressed.
unfortunately my friend, there are not many help wanted ads nowadays for plain spoken, tough guy heros.
I may be "obsolete" but I miss John Wayne and Hopalong Cassidy too.
While growing up i Had three heroes. Number one was Captain Kirk, Number two was John Wayne, and number three was Bugs Bunny! I thought is was cool you mentioned The Duke, davekill. Most people think that those three are a funny selection, but as davekill mentioned, none of the three take any crap, and they almost always land on their feet.
They better not make the new Kirk all emo and stuff. but I am sure they will do a good job.
I agree with you doc, I think the scene you are describing would be great!!
Duffster
Kirk is definitely a hero of mine, as well as Spock and Dr. McCoy. Basically all of the original cast of TOS characters. I'm a big John Wayne fan too. And probably the other hero for me was Luke Skywalker. Even though I always kind of wanted to be more like Han Solo, Luke was more like me I think. The innocent boy that has responsibilities thrust on him and has to rise to the challenge.
Kirk was before my time, but I watched him in reruns with my dad. TOS reruns were my introduction to Trek and I loved it despite the generation gap. I was an adolescent when TNG came out and I admire Captain Picard for the same reason you admire Kirk. I agree with you Doc, "The Shat" should be in the movie too.
You're not alone. Kirk's the man. I'd love to see him be in a cameo in the movie. It sounds like for them to get Nimoy aboard he wants to be more important to the story than just a walk on part (which is why he turned down "Generations"). From what Nimoy and Abrams have been cryptically saying, it does sound like Nimoy plays some kind of important role in the new movie, and the problem was they didn't want to just add Shatner in...they wanted to put him in if he had a meaningful part of the story...which I guess they haven't been able to do yet. The other problem, of course, was his death in Generations, although I think they could easily say that Shatner's role took place prior to the launch of the Enterprise B in "Generations."
I love Kirk and Bill, but I also think that the torch was passed long ago. The Undiscovered Country passed the torch well. New Captains have risen. Kirk has been given his due and it has come full circle. Kirk is coming back and that says alot. If the franchise is to continue, they need to make in new again. It shouldn't be a reunion because that doesn't clean the slate.
Doc, I'm a big fan of Kirk and of Shatner's portrayal of the character.
Kirk/Spock = Star Trek. I love all the successive versions, but it always comes back to that for me.
However, I don't see the need for yet another passing of the torch. Star Trek VI was clearly an attempt at that. Then there was Generations. I'm glad they're not going to force Kirk into the movie when they apparently couldn't think of a way to make it work.
I'm just hoping that this new version is well-received, ensuring that we'll get many more filmed adventures of Jim Kirk and crew, well after the original cast is able to play the characters.
I cant imagine this movie without William shatner in it, If the studio really wanted Him in this movie, they could make it work, they could have him reminiscing with Spock sometime before his death. I think that not having him in the movie in some form would be a big mistake, You could Even have Spock looking at a crew photo of kirk and the command crew and Spock could go back and remember his first meeting Kirk, or Spock looking at a Picture of him and kirk and remembering their last conversation before he died which could be reminiscing about their first meeting each other.
there are many ways they could make this work, and their is still time, so we can still hope.
Yeah, I'm still shocked actually that this movie (for now) is going to be made without an appearance by Shatner. With all the back patting that has gone on between Nimoy and Quinto, it seems strange that they want to shut out Shatner completely. I really hope this changes.
If it starts in the future with an older Spock, Kirk is dead. To have Spock think about older Kirk just to involve Bill will take time from the rest of the movie. I don't think a older Kirk cameo would be fair to anyone either. It's all about memories and mortality. Kirk is probably partly missing because no one wants to remember fat Elvis.
One last thing to consider is Bill. How long did it take for him to escape the shadow of Trek? He's finally earned a statue for his work as Denny Crane. I think he deserves to have a break from the franchise.
I don't think that Bill has "escaped" Kirk. I don't think it'd be possible, and I don't think he desires it. His resurgence in the last 5-10 years has been based on his embracing the perceptions of him. That's all based on Trek and his celebrity that came from it, and he must know that. Besides, he's still writing Trek books. He obviously isn't distancing himself that way.
I think, based on his comments, that he'd appear in the movie if asked (and compensated to his satisfaction). However, I agree with you that shoehorning him into the movie at the expense of the movie's flow is a horrible idea.
Shatner as Kirk got to say goodbye on the big screen, twice. Now Nimoy gets his turn, and I trust that it fits well with the story the filmmakers want to tell. That's good enough for me.
....i watched a video interview....he asked Nimoy if he was in the script in a telephone conversation....that alone shows his desire to be in the movie.....Captain Kirk is alive in the Star Trek Universe....you need to read some books....(sanctioned by the Star Trek copyright)....fat elvis.....i hope when i am 76 people are more easy on me.....especially if i started a series that most people love....
I've read the books, but I don't think they are canon. Also, the series with him alive is a result of the hollow death in Generations. IMHO, Kirk should have never entered the TNG era. The fate of Kirk was better as a mystery.
I have also read the Kirk Returns books and they are fun, but not all that great and certainly not canon. I love Kirk, grew up watching TOS re-runs int he early '70's and think it would be great to see him in the new movie, but it's not a deal breaker for me.
Just like in the Star Wars extended universe, Trek has gone on in many variations in book form. But in both cases, books are one thing, what happens on screen is another. This thread seems to of gotten off track a bit into whether Shatner should be in the new movie. Since none of us know exactly what the new script is all about, this is a difficult question to answer. My simple guess from what I have heard is he wouldn't be playing a very integral part in the movie, so it might be little more than a cameo. Nimoy and Spock are suppose to be more involved in the story. In any case, I just hope a good Trek movie is assembled, no matter who's name is in the credits.
Quote from: doc on September 16, 2007, 10:11:01 AM
fat elvis.....i hope when i am 76 people are more easy on me.....especially if i started a series that most people love....
Kirk is one of my favorite fictional heroes. However, in my mind at least, Kirk did not end up looking like Shatner does now, even if we ignore that he died saving the ENT-B.
Not wanting to see Shatner as Kirk in future movies doesn't mean I don't cherish the character of Kirk. On the contrary, it is my desire to see a successful movie with the Kirk character that makes me not want to see the filmmakers try to put Shatner as Kirk in a movie where he doesn't necessarily fit.
....let me focus everyone in.....if they want to include the old Captain Kirk...they can make it happen....do i care that my old hero has aged....no i do not ...everyone ages....do i want to see him again in a Star Trek movie? you better believe it....fitting into the story....they can make that happen.....if you don't think they watch forums...you are wrong....they are feeling out the Star Trek fans right now.....and that is why i am a dinosaur and a few others here are also.....but half do not care enough to put their foots down....we can make it happen....but like everything in life....it takes effort.....and a will.......is their a Captain Kirk fan in the house?....lets hear from you.....a hardcore Kirk fan.....now is the time....step up....it is time....
"I don't like to lose" Captain James T. Kirk
Is it Kirk or Shatner who is your hero?
You're getting a movie all about Captain Kirk, but you're upset that Shatner as Kirk isn't appearing.
Whether this year or 20 years from now, Shatner will NOT appear in Trek movies. But I hope that Kirk's adventures never stop.
Doc, you ask "is there a Captain Kirk fan in the house?" but that's been answered already
Yes, I'm a Kirk fan. Shatner is an actor whose performances I've enjoyed greatly. They're not inseparable concepts.
Quote from: doc on September 16, 2007, 02:21:41 PM
....let me focus everyone in.....if they want to include the old Captain Kirk...they can make it happen....do i care that my old hero has aged....no i do not ...everyone ages....do i want to see him again in a Star Trek movie? you better believe it....fitting into the story....they can make that happen.....if you don't think they watch forums...you are wrong....they are feeling out the Star Trek fans right now.....and that is why i am a dinosaur and a few others here are also.....but half do not care enough to put their foots down....we can make it happen....but like everything in life....it takes effort.....and a will.......is their a Captain Kirk fan in the house?....lets hear from you.....a hardcore Kirk fan.....now is the time....step up....it is time....
"I don't like to lose" Captain James T. Kirk
What's with all the periods?
And Pickard has made a good point, Kirk will be in the movie, just not portrayed by William Shatner. Is that your issue? Love the Shat, love the character he created, can't wait to see that character again as portrayed by someone new.
yikes sorry for the periods....whoops....yes William Shatner as Captain Kirk is who i would like to see one more time.....even just a cameo.....and i would like to see more Captain Kirk (William Shatner fans if you like....) submit posts....thx again....don't get me wrong, i am looking forward to the new cast.....but look above....i want to see that also....i am a dinosaur... who uses excess periods....
"I don't like to lose" Captain James T. Kirk --Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
LOL!!! No worries and I don't think you will brook any argument here that Shat is, and always will be JTK. I would love to see that puffy face one more time on film, but I don't see it as required for the new film to be good, just a nice little addition.
I think that the thing at issue is that some of other Kirk fans have seen Undiscovered Country. That was to be the just one more time for the crew of the Enterprise. Then Generations was supposed to be the just one more time. I think that at some point you need to take the advice of another great captain. The line must be drawn here. This far, no further.
I love Bill Shatner. I even watched Incubus and tried to learn the lang to speak it. I found it cool that in Blade Trinity they were speaking the same language and Incubus was playing in the background of one of the TVs.
If they are going to reboot the series, they only need one person to bring the old and new together and Spock, who we know exists in the TNG era is a good way to bridge all of the shows and reimagine the franchise. I really love Bill, but I don't see a need to shoehorn him into the new movie for the sake of fans alone. The story must be the cornerstone and the driving force if this ship is to fly.
I was ten years old when Star Trek had it's debut and I was there and tuned in every week. It was my favorite show and I love Shatner as Captain Kirk. However, I do not really care if the Shat appears in the next movie or not. What matters to me is that Abrams and company write the best script that they possibly can, cast the best actors for the various roles that they can find, give us the best visuals that their budget can afford etc. etc. I want a great Star Trek story. If I had been Abrams I would not have gone backward to create a new series of Trek movies but that is what he is doing and I hope it all turns out right and that the fans will support it. If they can find a way to put the Shat into the story without messing with continuity then I would be happy for that but he's obviously too old to play a young Kirk and the Kirk who died was far younger than he is right now. I guess I prefer to leave Kirk dead. His death wasn't written the way I would have done it but at least he died saving the universe and making a difference one last time. Let's hope that whoever they cast as the captain will be worthy of the role and the icon that Kirk has become!
Kevin
Quote from: Ktrek on September 16, 2007, 07:10:02 PM
I guess I prefer to leave Kirk dead. His death wasn't written the way I would have done it but at least he died saving the universe and making a difference one last time. Let's hope that whoever they cast as the captain will be worthy of the role and the icon that Kirk has become!
That's how I feel.
"and yet i can't help wondering about the friend i leave behind, there are always possibilities Spock said......"
Captain James T. Kirk -- Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Quote from: Just X on September 16, 2007, 06:38:04 AM
If it starts in the future with an older Spock, Kirk is dead. To have Spock think about older Kirk just to involve Bill will take time from the rest of the movie. I don't think a older Kirk cameo would be fair to anyone either. It's all about memories and mortality. Kirk is probably partly missing because no one wants to remember fat Elvis.
LOL...brilliant analogy....you darn near made me spit Coke on the computer screen
Duffster- that emo comment made me laugh out loud. :)
It would be weird to see Shatner trying to play Kirk again. I just think it might be hard for viewers to separate him from his character on Boston Legal.
BUT I do agree that he made Kirk a truly great character while he played him.