Oh boy, the Greedo part isn't going over well....
:ohwell
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/george-lucas-star-wars-interview-288523 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/george-lucas-star-wars-interview-288523)
Apparently we were all confused back in '77!
Interesting Article. Not sure if I really follow Georges reasoning on Greedo. It is hard for me to remember exactly how I felt about that scene when I saw it in the Theatre as a kid, since I have now seen the other takes that sort of blur the picture in my mind. But if I recall, I don't think I was confused when I saw it and I was 8 at the time. I think I just recalled that Han had to shoot Greedo or he would be shot himself. I am not sure if I would go full on self defense angle, as I thought he was a cool dude after he Shot Greedo and flipped the coin, but I think I realized he had to do something in that situation.
I agree. To me it was clear that Han shot first, however Greedo already had him at gunpoint. What was he to do? He wasn't being a 'cold blooded killer' he was trying to save his butt.
I agree with everything said here, but to me the tone of that interview says Lucas simply seems sick of talking about it, and defending creative decisions he is well within his right to make. I see his point and kind of wish everyone (not here on the forums mind you but just the world in general) would leave him alone and let him do what he wants. Nothing he does changes one iota of how I feel about the films or characters, and that's what's important in the long run.
George is either just trying to defend his changes or he is out of touch with many things. I saw the original "Star Wars" film in the theaters in the summer of 1977 over 20 times. Han shot first - period. The film was cut than way, that's the way everyone that saw that movie perceived it. Even if Lucas intended for it to not be that way, that is what people got. I've always said he can alter anything he wants, I think some of us would just like a real nice copy of the original version too.
Now, on to his point about "all" these movies getting changed? Where is he seeing this?? Like 99.9% of films never get altered after they are made and released. The reason "Star Wars" gets such heat is he changes it practically yearly and a LOT of people like it and buy each new version. So it's in the public eye. My advice to you George is either stick to your guns and make the changes you want and let the chips fall. Or maybe start thinking about giving the fans what they actually want too.
To me it's just that every argument that can be made, has been made, on both sides of the debate. I still think that the whole "artistic vision" of the films is a smoke screen to build hype and anticipation for when he eventually releases the huge box set for an exhorbitant amount of money that will include pristine copies of the original theatrical cuts.
I do disagree with the 99.9% figure you quote, Rico. It seems like almost every big budget movie made nowadays has a "special edition" or "director's cut" eventually released on home video.
Quote from: Jobydrone on February 10, 2012, 10:02:16 AMI do disagree with the 99.9% figure you quote, Rico. It seems like almost every big budget movie made nowadays has a "special edition" or "director's cut" eventually released on home video.
Yes but the original versions remain available.
Yeah, I never had an issue as an 8 year old with Han shooting first. I do find him trying to effectively say he always meant to have Han shooting first pretty inconceivable. But I can just ignore stuff like this and continue to love the STAR WARS universe and not hate on the man.
Saw things about this on Twitter. You'd think he's got a movie out or something to attract this sort of controversy on purpose....
Honestly, at this point I get the impression he just doesn't give a rats ass anymore,
Quote from: Bryancd on February 10, 2012, 12:57:17 PM
Honestly, at this point I get the impression he just doesn't give a rats ass anymore,
If that's the case then it's probably the only thing me and Lucas agree on . ;)
Honestly, I've seen the original scene just a few days ago and it is...vague. It doesn't show who shot first clearly and if you took it to court, they would be debating for months on who shot first. You get the impression that Han MIGHT have shot first, but you never actually see it.
The redone scene makes it clear.
King
I never saw the scene as being even remotely vague. He slips the blaster out of the holster slowly under the table while distracting him with his other hand fiddling with the wall and then drills him. Cut!
Quote from: Bryancd on February 10, 2012, 01:25:15 PM
I never saw the scene as being even remotely vague. He slips the blaster out of the holster slowly under the table while distracting him with his other hand fiddling with the wall and then drills him. Cut!
Except we never see him pull the trigger. We actually don't see who pulls the trigger first and don't forget that Greedo had his gun out first.
King
King, you didn't see the original version. In that version, Greedo never got off a shot. In the remastered version, han shoots first and there is a cgi head dodge. in the remastering of the remastering, greedo shoots first.
George is an ass if he expects us to believe that Greedo shot first. He didn't shoot at all. There was no sound of him shooting and we all have to be f-ing idiots to believe that the technology didn't exist at the time to make the scene right.
He changed his mind on it, which is his right, but don't piss on my head and call it rain.
In the original cut of the film, Greedo NEVER fires! Have you ever seen the original?
I have actually seen the original movie. Old VHS stored in our house somewhere on a shelf.
Original scene VIA YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YGpuM_VJDQ4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YGpuM_VJDQ4#)!
I look at the scene and I can't tell who shot first. They easily could have shot at the same time too I might add, as the improved scene shows.
'Greedo Shoots First' from Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (Blu-Ray Clip) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKEX6QJ-zlQ#ws)
But its just my 2 cents, I don't care who shot first, never really did, it wasn't important to Han's character either way. Even if he did shoot first, it was in defense of himself considering that greedo had pulled the gun first. This whole "It shows that he was cold/calculating" BS is just that, BS. He defended himself and it just showed how good he was at doing it.
King
Quote from: Jobydrone on February 10, 2012, 10:02:16 AM
I do disagree with the 99.9% figure you quote, Rico. It seems like almost every big budget movie made nowadays has a "special edition" or "director's cut" eventually released on home video.
Joby - do you realize how many films are made in a year? I'm talking worldwide. I watch a fair amount of niche and foreign stuff. Hardly anyone goes back - ever and recuts a film. And they certainly don't do it ten plus times! The only time it's done is if they see money in a new edition for home DVD or Blu-Ray. And like Bryan and others have said, you still get the original in just about every one of those cases. Maybe it's isn't 99.9%, so I'll drop it to 99%. :)
Tim, you have to be kidding me. There is no laser bolt coming from Greedo's gun, no blaster mark on the wall behind Han, nothing at all to indicate he fired. There is just the blaster explosion on Greedo. How is that still vague to you?
I'll add as well.
From the novel which i hold in my hand published in 1977... it states that 'light and noise filled the little corner of the cantina and when it had faded, all that remained of the unctuous alien was a smoking slimy spot on the stone floor. Solo brought his hand and the smoking weapon it held out from beneath the table.
So he actually does more than a little laser zap lol. Also the script says this
HAN
Even I get boarded sometimes. Do you
think I had a choice?
Han Solo slowly reaches for his gun under the table.
GREEDO
You can tell that to Jabba. He may
only take your ship.
HAN
Over my dead body.
GREEDO
That's the idea. I've been looking
forward to killing you for a long
time.
HAN
Yes, I'll bet you have.
Suddenly the slimy alien disappears in a blinding flash of
light. Han pulls his smoking gun from beneath the table as
the other patron look on in bemused amazement. Han gets up
and starts out of the cantina, flipping the bartender some
coins as he leaves.
Enough said really.
Well, to be fair Meds, that was written by Alan Dean Foster, same chap who wrote the ALIEN novelization. GL got story credit but didn't write the novel.
Oh yeah but what i'm pointing out is that this is from 1977 and wrote from the original script no where does it say Greedo (who is not named) shot first.
I had to google Alan Dean Foster by the way (sorry Bry, don;t take my geek card away)
Fine, but does it really matter if Han shot first?
King
Yes because in that action is defines the character. Han is a swindler, a space pirate it breaks the mould of having a major character on the good side being very rough around the edges. He starts off from being rough and selfish to caring about his friends. Its good character building something that all writers need to do.
Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on February 10, 2012, 03:09:15 PM
Yes because in that action is defines the character. Han is a swindler, a space pirate it breaks the mould of having a major character on the good side being very rough around the edges. He starts off from being rough and selfish to caring about his friends. Its good character building something that all writers need to do.
Except I view it as self defense, so I don't see how that defines his character.
King
Really? hmm maybe thats the writer in me then.
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on February 10, 2012, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on February 10, 2012, 03:09:15 PM
Yes because in that action is defines the character. Han is a swindler, a space pirate it breaks the mould of having a major character on the good side being very rough around the edges. He starts off from being rough and selfish to caring about his friends. Its good character building something that all writers need to do.
Except I view it as self defense, so I don't see how that defines his character.
King
You're totally missing the point Tim. It matters because no one likes being lied to. Greedo didn't shoot first. He didn't even shoot. For GL to tell us that this was ALWAYS the intent implies that we're f-ing morons. If he had said "I changed my mind, Greedo shot first." then it wouldn't matter, but that's not what happened. It's pretty damned insulting when you think about it even briefly.
If he wants to change it, that's his right, but the technology wasn't there to fulfill his vision is a crap excuse. It's also revisionist history at the extreme. My issue has never been solely with the change, but the change and the revisionist history that implies none of us have eyes to see or a brain to think about what occurred on screen.
This revisionist crap also applies to the Yoda scenes in Ep 1. How is it hard to do Yoda in CGI when everything else is done in CGI? It's bull. He had a better idea later then decides that he always had that idea and technology was just wrong.
I have to say, that the scene really set the tone of Han Solo for me. I am not sure if I would have thought the same of him, if the scene was like the changes George made after. For the most part, I have been ok with the changes George has made to the movies, but that was the one I always wished he never changed. I am not sure how many times when I was a kid, that I played out that scene with toys or friends.
Actually it reminded me of the old commercial for the creature cantina, where Han is shooting up the place. So they sort of play off that scene in the marketting back in the day.
Star Wars Vintage KENNER Commercial - Creature Cantina (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvF5HwqUvC0#)
Quote from: X on February 10, 2012, 03:21:50 PM
Quote from: KingIsaacLinksr on February 10, 2012, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on February 10, 2012, 03:09:15 PM
Yes because in that action is defines the character. Han is a swindler, a space pirate it breaks the mould of having a major character on the good side being very rough around the edges. He starts off from being rough and selfish to caring about his friends. Its good character building something that all writers need to do.
Except I view it as self defense, so I don't see how that defines his character.
King
You're totally missing the point Tim. It matters because no one likes being lied to. Greedo didn't shoot first. He didn't even shoot. For GL to tell us that this was ALWAYS the intent implies that we're f-ing morons. If he had said "I changed my mind, Greedo shot first." then it wouldn't matter, but that's not what happened. It's pretty damned insulting when you think about it even briefly.
If he wants to change it, that's his right, but the technology wasn't there to fulfill his vision is a crap excuse. It's also revisionist history at the extreme. My issue has never been solely with the change, but the change and the revisionist history that implies none of us have eyes to see or a brain to think about what occurred on screen.
This revisionist crap also applies to the Yoda scenes in Ep 1. How is it hard to do Yoda in CGI when everything else is done in CGI? It's bull. He had a better idea later then decides that he always had that idea and technology was just wrong.
Fine, if its the being lied to issue, fine. Whatever. But if we all hate being lied to so much, why do we keep buying the movies. Anyway, I'm retracting myself from the argument. I don't care one way or the other.
King
Tim, you really are lost in the weeds on this one. And it's a question ofbeing lied to. George is welcome to alter his art as much as he wants. But to say the original scene was different when it wasn't makes me raise theBS flag. I just honestly think GL has combined his current vision with what he had in 1976 while filming and is confusing them. I'm fine with this, I don't hate the man and still respect his work. My Dad says silly stuff sometimes but I don't always take it seriously.
Tim, what's happened to you man? When did you become a Lucas apologist?
They've got to him I tell ya, they've got to him!! ;)
Wait, Tim is defending Lucas and Bryan is the one crying foul?
Have I walked into one of those Fringe portals?!! Lol
Did they swap goatees, and no one noticed?
*pulls at goatee evilly*.
Nah, go read the Clone Wars thread, I'm hardly an apologist there, but I do find the complaints about GL changing things a bit silly when I know most of those who complain about the changes bought the Blu-ray versions. Your not telling GL that you don't want changes when you support him anyway. Just saying. And you don't have to buy the Blu-rays either, I haven't.
King
I have no problem both buying the Blu-Rays and also not being happy with the changes. The movies still look amazing on Blu-Ray and most of the original film is still in there so for me it's worth it. There is very little in life that is perfect and exactly the way you want it. Anytime you buy something you make choices and compromises. But I'm still holding out for an original version, hidef release of the films - someday.
Agree with Rico here. I also saw the movie in the summer of 77 in the theatres and Han shot first. Lucas' defense of Han was not a cold blooded killer is awkward, because as has been pointed out here Greedo had Solo at gunpoint telling him he was going to kill him. Han blasted Greedo from under the table, did'nt blink an eye, tipped the bartender and swaggered out. Cold blooded? Maybe - maybe not. But by Return of the Jedi Han may not have made the same decision and the same move. Its called character growth, and its a big part of what drives a movie. Its what makes Han's reappearance at the climax such a rush. For Lucas to change that (as is his right) is a bit of a selfish move I feel.
Appaullo