And I love the prequels. But you know what I can never reconcile is thinking of Hayden's Vader beneath the mask in the OT. I'm ok with that, but try as I might, he just seems like a totally different character.
Which revision are you watching?
Quote from: X on September 05, 2011, 09:27:35 PM
Which revision are you watching?
You beat me to it! :)
...I have no idea...
Well, there's what, almost 20 years between the prequels and ESB? I guess you could argue that a person changes over time. If I compare myself today to myself even 5 or 10 years ago I am a very different person. Especially someone whoi has gone through the things Anakin/Vader has.
I thought ESB was a beer...
(That was the random comment of the day)
Yeah, that's true, Joe, it just seems the Vader of the OT that I grew up with had a sense of gravitas that I never did get from Hayden and thus have a hard time reconciling the two. Again, an old topic and one which doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the films, it just struck me last night.
This is one of the reasons I always thought George missed out on a chance to blend prequel Vader into OT Vader. I would have started with Anakin as a young Jedi (as seen in Clone Wars) for Episode 1. Then Episode 2 would have been his fall to the darkside. And Episode 3 would have been him hunting Jedi, and becoming the more ruthless Vader we see later on. But hey, maybe one day Lucas will do something to flesh out the time between Episode 3 & 4.
Quote from: Rico on September 06, 2011, 08:06:18 AM
This is one of the reasons I always thought George missed out on a chance to blend prequel Vader into OT Vader. I would have started with Anakin as a young Jedi (as seen in Clone Wars) for Episode 1. Then Episode 2 would have been his fall to the darkside. And Episode 3 would have been him hunting Jedi, and becoming the more ruthless Vader we see later on. But hey, maybe one day Lucas will do something to flesh out the time between Episode 3 & 4.
In one 2 minute post you've proposed a better prequel story than George ever gave us. Not much of a stretch is it?
Thanks. I know SW is George's baby and I don't want to get into who is calling the shots and all that. I also know from interviews with him that he felt it was very important to show Anakin as a boy and that he started off pretty innocent. My answer to that would have been to do maybe 30 mins or so of Ep. 1 showing that, and then do a tagline, now 10 years later and continue on. In any case, it is what it is and I can accept that. But I do feel it could have been better overall as a story, especially in blending the two trilogies into one whole saga.
Right I guess that's the thing, was it necessary that he was a slave and that he had no father and coincidentally lived on Tatoonie?
Yep basically Episode 1 regardless of the quality of the material and people's opinions, in terms of moving the story on didn't give us a whole lot. As Rico says it could easily be condensed into 30 mins (and several fan edits have combined eps 1&2 into one movie by doing exactly this).
Quote from: Rico on September 06, 2011, 08:06:18 AM
This is one of the reasons I always thought George missed out on a chance to blend prequel Vader into OT Vader. I would have started with Anakin as a young Jedi (as seen in Clone Wars) for Episode 1. Then Episode 2 would have been his fall to the darkside. And Episode 3 would have been him hunting Jedi, and becoming the more ruthless Vader we see later on. But hey, maybe one day Lucas will do something to flesh out the time between Episode 3 & 4.
I would have loved to see VAder hunting down the remaining Jedi.
:offtopic
it took me several minutes to find out that we were talking about empire strikes back. :blush
east sodium bananas? every soup bland? maybe elephants stringing beads?
There was no way GL would have done a fast forward in time in the middle of the film, he had never done anything like that before and it's not his style of film making. Not saying it wouldn't have worked but it was never going to happen that way.
Quote from: Dangelus on September 06, 2011, 08:26:37 AM
In one 2 minute post you've proposed a better prequel story than George ever gave us. Not much of a stretch is it?
I just can't agree with that. Yes it would have been a very interesting story if told that way but what was done, I feel, also succeeds on many levels in setting up the entire universe of SW which I think was very important, especially regarding the surreptitious rise of Palpatine.
@Rico: throw in a failed Sith usurpation (there can be only two) and I'm in!
@bryancd: Indiana jones 3?
Quote from: Bryancd on September 06, 2011, 05:15:30 PM
Quote from: Dangelus on September 06, 2011, 08:26:37 AM
In one 2 minute post you've proposed a better prequel story than George ever gave us. Not much of a stretch is it?
I just can't agree with that. Yes it would have been a very interesting story if told that way but what was done, I feel, also succeeds on many levels in setting up the entire universe of SW which I think was very important, especially regarding the surreptitious rise of Palpatine.
I agree the rise if the Emperor was an interesting part of the story and this could still have been seen. The whole Clone Wars setup I found way too convoluted and didn't make much sense. They should have figured out it was all a setup from the start.
Also I never understood why it was referred to as The Clone Wars by the Republic. The clones were their armed forces against the droids so surely The Droid Wars would have made more sense. It would also have mirrored attitudes towards droids in the original trilogy nicely. (We dont serve their kind in here, etc) Yes I know the name comes from a throw away line in ANH but still...
That's true, but I think the lead in of TPM into ATOC and culminating in ROTS does have a nice flow to it while at the same time moving Anakins story forward. Certainly I could have done without an 8 year old Darth Vader yelling yippee! but the context of the environment he was living in I found fascinating. TMP gave us very memorable characters like Qui-gon and Darth Maul. Looking back it's more clear Lucas wanted Anakins story to start at a point in his life where we could be more sympathetic towards him. In fact moving away from the film content I would argue that the Clone Wars has provided Lucas with a terrific platform to really provide a lot of character development for Anakin between Clones and Sith. GL didn't know he would have this opportunity at the time, but I say good on him for making such effective use of it now. Perhaps that portends well for any additional series which may come from Lucas in the future....series which are funded by the release of the current films in new formats (3D, Blu-Ray, ect.) just to bring this back around to the upcoming release. :)
Do you watch Clone Wars, Dan?
Yes and I think it's very good.
I'm hoping we will see other eras treated like this after it has finished. I'd love to see the "old" republic and the missing years between the trilogies.
In my head, Anakin was older than he was in the prequels and his relationship with Padame was less creepy, but if Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglass can make it work ... nope still creepy. You just don't date someone you watched grow up when you're hitting adult years.
Bryan - I don't agree with some of your comments for the simple fact that Lucas has said the whole series of movies is about Anakin and his downfall. Well, then show us more of that. That's what I want to see.
I think what we see in TPM sets up the environment which contributed to his downfall and therefore is germane to his story. And at the end of the day, as I mentioned before, the creative process of narrative is not done via committee. You can never create what everyone is going to want to see, you simply tell the story you want to tell. As such, I think TPM succeeds on many levels.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 07, 2011, 05:07:41 AM
I think what we see in TPM sets up the environment which contributed to his downfall and therefore is germane to his story. And at the end of the day, as I mentioned before, the creative process of narrative is not done via committee. You can never create what everyone is going to want to see, you simply tell the story you want to tell. As such, I think TPM succeeds on many levels.
I can accept that that, but I think that it fails on many more levels. Here's my main problem with it. I waited years to see new Star Wars and it's the only movie that I've ever fallen asleep on during a premier. Some of the directorial decision of that film had nothing to do with telling a story, but showing off new technical tricks and it showed.
I'm not saying it's even close to being the worse movie ever, but I think I got more enjoyment out of Plan 9 from Outer Space.
To me the whole movie played out like a commercial for the new toys and the Podracer video game that was being released. Given that my standards were already low for any film directed by George, it was shocking at how below par this was for me.
I'm trying to think back on my first, unspoiled reaction to TPM, before all the hype, hyperbole, internet outrage, and retrospective thinking took its toll. I remember much more clearly how excited I was to see the film before it released. I must have watched the preview trailer online fifty times, picking out every little detail. I don't remember hating the film when I finally saw it, and liked it enough to see it more than once in the theater, but I'm not sure how much of that was based on the merits of the film itself and how much was simply because it was the first new Star Wars we'd had on film since the Ewok TV movies. I don't like thinking that my opinions can be swayed so much by the media, but I really wonder how much the deluge of ourage and disappointment so many feel over the prequels has impacted my opinions as a whole.
I know for a fact, and I don't care what anyone says, I still loved Indy 4 and can't wait for Indy 5. So there's that, anyway.