Now these are sweet looking machines! The 11" model tempts more sorely.
Yeah, they needed to up both form factor and price. Now that they have iPad at the lowest price point for a portable Mac, now the Air can bridge the gap up to the MacBook Pro's. I'm also thinking some iPad customers can be upsold to the Air, way higher margins.
Still over-priced and under-powered. There, I said it! ;)
Quote from: Rico on October 20, 2010, 03:11:59 PM
Still over-priced and under-powered. There, I said it! ;)
If I wasn't so infatuated with getting a Pad of somekind next year, the New Macbook Air would be what I get. I have decided to part ways with Windows on portable devices.
Does that make me a fanboy? Oh well ;)
I still like Windows 7 on my desktop though...and so far have no reason to switch to Mac yet. Windows did do a good job on the OS so it's not like I'm a total convert. (/denial)
King
Quote from: Rico on October 20, 2010, 03:11:59 PM
Still over-priced and under-powered. There, I said it! ;)
Oh..no...you did NOT go there!!!!! ;)
Quote from: Bryancd on October 20, 2010, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: Rico on October 20, 2010, 03:11:59 PM
Still over-priced and under-powered. There, I said it! ;)
Oh..no...you did NOT go there!!!!! ;)
He did, but he isn't wrong is he?
Quote from: Bryancd on October 20, 2010, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: Rico on October 20, 2010, 03:11:59 PM
Still over-priced and under-powered. There, I said it! ;)
Oh..no...you did NOT go there!!!!! ;)
He did Bryan. We need to have an intervention with Rico, we need to make him a believer!! ;)
King
It's just the same old argument. Apple picks form over function. It's an awesome looking piece of hardware, but a decent laptop that costs half of that can run circles around it. For that matter, so can a Macbook Pro at the same price point.
Quote from: X on October 20, 2010, 05:27:33 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on October 20, 2010, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: Rico on October 20, 2010, 03:11:59 PM
Still over-priced and under-powered. There, I said it! ;)
Oh..no...you did NOT go there!!!!! ;)
He did, but he isn't wrong is he?
"Worth", "Value", "Cost" are subjective to the wants and means and goals of the buyer, so what may not be worth it to you will very much be so for someone else. You spend you money how you want and I'll do the same.
Personally, I love mac for a desktop, but I really don't see much the value in spending the extra money on a portable status symbol. I do my serious computing on my iMac and I also have a linux laptop for any computing I might need to do away from home.
I was just joking with Rico in my second post, but my first post better states the true value of the Air. Once again, a very large percentage of ten computer buying market really don't care how much RAM, how fast the processor is, how much HD storage, ect., ect., ect. I couldn't even tell you any of those numbers for my 4 year old iMac. I just know it, and my little iPad, does what I want an needed it to do. If you place value on having the most extreme numbers and tech specs, then you are not me are a different consumer. I can tell you there are more "me's" than "you's" out there. People want it easy, cool, and what they are familiar with.
Trouble with the macbook is I always want to skip to the last page to see who did it.
Quote from: Bryancd on October 20, 2010, 06:17:53 PM
I was just joking with Rico in my second post, but my first post better states the true value of the Air. Once again, a very large percentage of ten computer buying market really don't care how much RAM, how fast the processor is, how much HD storage, ect., ect., ect. I couldn't even tell you any of those numbers for my 4 year old iMac. I just know it, and my little iPad, does what I want an needed it to do. If you place value on having the most extreme numbers and tech specs, then you are not me are a different consumer. I can tell you there are more "me's" than "you's" out there. People want it easy, cool, and what they are familiar with.
I don't think there are. If that was the case, they wouldn't plaster the specs all over machines. Also, have you been to a best buy or something lately, specs are pretty damned important to most consumers.
Granted, I'm sure that there are a lot of you's out there, but I don't think that a majority of people don't care about the specs of their machines.
I think it all comes down to levels of disposable income. If you're in a bracket with higher levels of disposable income, form over function has always been the norm. However, most consumers are not in the higher tiers and are looking for the best bang for their buck.
Which is why despite the numbers that apple is pulling down. Windows based systems still sell magnitudes more. While some of America would choose the $500.00 cheese burger, most of them are happy with the $5.00 version ... especially if they can get a deal on it.
When Apple stores out number Best Buys and Walmarts, I'll revise my position.
Nope, they just want it to work. I have never even come close to filling up my desktop with stuff. I barely fill up my iPod and don't come close with the iPad. Most laptops have WAY more power and memory than most people ever use. That is a fact. Apple isn't interested in being the WalMart of technology. They are selling something different. How many times do I need to explain this to you? And if shopping at WalMart is your idea of value versus best quality, well...
And by the way, people with more disposable income often get that way because they are fairly clever, don't discount them as savvy. Wealth management is what I do for a living. This is very much in my wheel house.
Quote from: Bryancd on October 20, 2010, 07:11:53 PM
Nope, they just want it to work. I have never even come close to filling up my desktop with stuff. I barely fill up my iPod and don't come close with the iPad. Most laptops have WAY more power and memory than most people ever use. That is a fact. Apple isn't interested in being the WalMart of technology. They are selling something different. How many times do I need to explain this to you?
And by the way, people with more disposable income often get that way because they are fairly clever, don't discount them as savvy. Wealth management is what I do for a living.
I know first hand how savvy they can be. Most of my father's family is extremely wealthy. I get called weekly by one of them telling me they are looking for certain tech that does a certain thing. Then they ask me to run comparisons on what will do what they want, what the value is in exceeding their desires, and a few products to compare.
Since they can spend more on something than I can without breaking the bank, they have a wider range.
As for most laptops having more memory and power than people use, I guess it all depends on the person. My father loves to take pictures and has a 12 megapix camera. He had to get a new laptop several times over the last 3 years to keep up with what he wants to do. Sure the other side of it is sending email, but memory is a big decider for him and he isn't tech savvy at all.
He also had to upgrade his ipod because he had too many songs for the last 3 that he had.
I totally agree with you that Apple is selling something different. What I don't agree with is that there are more of you than us. If that was the case, Apple would be a huge seller, but when in reality it's nowhere close to Windows based PC sales.
I think that you want there to be more of you than us, it would do wonders for Apple stock, but that's just not the case. Apple is doing a damned good job at selling cool stuff, but most normal people want value for what they buy. There are many that do like the cool, but the majority of consumers want a good value for their purchase.
So what about people like me? Who are bitter about Windows screwing them again and again every time they buy a laptop, does that mean we just want to spend more because it's "pretty?" I beg to differ tbh. I'm switching my mobile machines to Apple because I don't hear about the "this mac will last only a year, maybe a year and a half". I had my own Windows laptop it lasted 3/4ths of a year before sent back, then 2.5 years before sent back again before finally kicking the bucket after 4 years, I've dealt with other people's laptops and all I see is pure crap. I switched because we get burned every time we get a laptop. My Mom's laptop is on the fritz, my brother's laptop is also on the fritz and it's a year old.
What was the biggest complaint about the iPad? No flash. That is a gigantic difference to me when I compared Apple technology to Windows technology.
Windows laptops need to step up. They are cheap because they are cheaply made. And I'm tired of dealing with it.
King
Oh and here is the best part. Woman in my class tonight just got her laptop from FredMeyer earlier today, and it's track pad was already buggy and non responsive. It was an ASUS laptop. I shook my head and told her to restart in a vain attempt to fix it.
Now can you see why I switched? Specs in all the world don't mean a dang difference if the machine can't operate correctly within 24 hours of purchase!!!
1 day and her laptop is already bugged. Wow.
Sorry if my nerdrage is coming out in these posts a bit, I'll be a little more calm from now on, I promise :)
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 20, 2010, 07:37:18 PM
So what about people like me? Who are bitter about Windows screwing them again and again every time they buy a laptop, does that mean we just want to spend more because it's "pretty?" I beg to differ tbh. I'm switching my mobile machines to Apple because I don't hear about the "this mac will last only a year, maybe a year and a half". I had my own Windows laptop it lasted 3/4ths of a year before sent back, then 2.5 years before sent back again before finally kicking the bucket after 4 years, I've dealt with other people's laptops and all I see is pure crap. I switched because we get burned every time we get a laptop. What was the biggest complaint about the iPad? No flash.
Windows laptops need to step up. They are cheap because they are cheaply made. And I'm tired of dealing with it.
King
umm, I'll try to answer that for you with three questions. What are you going to do with a computer with a 64gig hard drive for 999.99? Will that fit your needs and support 3+ years? Do you realize that not all PC manufactures are created equal and some companies have better products than other?
Not all Windows based computers are cheaply made. My daughter has a 5 year old compaq that she beats to high hell and it still works perfectly. I think that computers are like cars in that way. If you do the right maintenance on it, it will last you a longer time. This is why some cars become classics and others become scrap. My father owns a 36 year old Corvette that runs perfectly. My bother in law needs to get a new car every 4 years because he doesn't know how to take care of them.
I really think that the longevity of any product has 100% to do with the person using said product. I don't care if it's Apple, Dell, or Alienware, how you treat your product will determine how long it lives.
Mileage on how long you can keep something working will totally depend on the end user.
Also, one more question. How is Windows screwing you when you buy a computer when they have nothing to do with how that computer is made. It's kind of like blaming Exxon because your Ford got an oil leak. Or blaming your ISP because you don't have a great video card.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 20, 2010, 07:43:48 PM
Oh and here is the best part. Woman in my class tonight just got her laptop from FredMeyer earlier today, and it's track pad was already buggy and non responsive. It was an ASUS laptop. I shook my head and told her to restart in a vain attempt to fix it.
Now can you see why I switched? Specs in all the world don't mean a dang difference if the machine can't operate correctly within 24 hours of purchase!!!
1 day and her laptop is already bugged. Wow.
Sorry if my nerdrage is coming out in these posts a bit, I'll be a little more calm from now on, I promise :)
King
If she just got the computer it could just be defective. That can be any product from getting a new TV with a stuck pixel, to getting a new sound system with sound issues. I don't see how one problem can relate to another. Apple, as some media outlets have pointed out also don't build 100% perfect products 100% of the time. No one does.
Well, now that we have established that X's family is wealthy, his dad has an old Corvette, and that apparently tact skips a generation, I'm done here. Apple will sell a bunch of these, likely converting some iPad buyers to the Air. It won't be massive numbers, but then again Honda sells way more cars than Porsche, but.....
I took care of my laptop the best way that I could, keeping it maintained, but it's cooling system, something to do with the Harddrive & motherboard and screen all failed at separate times. Once, right in the middle of college year too so to say I was...upset...was an understatement, especially since I had no backup systems at the time.
I pulled the women's troubles as just another example in a long line of examples. And I believe that Window's OS' number of issues are already well known, susceptibility to viruses, Os-quirks, the list goes on. My mother still has troubles with her's due to a failed hard drive "backup" partition, which seems required on every Windows system, yet never, ever works when you need it.
Your right though, products are defective, it happens. I have a hard time believing that our family was cursed with bad luck on this though. I did state however earlier that Windows on Desktops works just fine and I've been satisfied with my experience. Mobile wise, has not been the same experience. Which tells me there is a flaw with them that needs to be fixed sooner, rather than later.
King
Quote from: Bryancd on October 20, 2010, 07:59:26 PM
Well, now that we have established that X's family is wealthy, his dad has an old Corvette, and that apparently tact skips a generation, I'm done here. Apple will sell a bunch of these, likely converting some iPad buyers to the Air. It won't be massive numbers, but then again Honda sells way more cars than Porsche, but.....
Bryan, I didn't say that I was wealthy. I'm not. I was putting my real world experiences into perspective to what I thought. You mentioned wealthy people being savvy and I agreed with you. I didn't toss out numbers or say that it's my business to know these things. I told of experiences on why I think the way I do.
I used cars as an analogy to life expectancy of a produce because, again, it's something that I have seen in action. What at all does that have to do with tact or lack there of? I didn't post anyone's gross annual income or say anything other than wealthy, which is pretty damned vague and allows each person to have their own ideas of what that means.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 20, 2010, 08:06:49 PM
I took care of my laptop the best way that I could, keeping it maintained, but it's cooling system, something to do with the Harddrive & motherboard and screen all failed at separate times. Once, right in the middle of college year too so to say I was...upset...was an understatement, especially since I had no backup systems at the time.
I pulled the women's troubles as just another example in a long line of examples. And I believe that Window's OS' number of issues are already well known, susceptibility to viruses, Os-quirks, the list goes on. My mother still has troubles with her's due to a failed hard drive "backup" partition, which seems required on every Windows system, yet never, ever works when you need it.
Your right though, products are defective, it happens. I have a hard time believing that our family was cursed with bad luck on this though. I did state however earlier that Windows on Desktops works just fine and I've been satisfied with my experience. Mobile wise, has not been the same experience. Which tells me there is a flaw with them that needs to be fixed sooner, rather than later.
King
I'm not suggesting that you're cursed with evil tech skills or anything. Some times we get a crappy product, but that could be any product. That's what I'm getting at. Apple does offer some great products, but I don't think that they are innately better built or anything like that. I also know that they aren't immune to viruses. When the numbers rise enough to garner the interest of hackers, it's going to become open season. As it stands, Apple hasn't been much of a target because of the numbers game. You write a virus and it does far more damage world wide because it hits the largest OS. Apple has had the benefit of being far below the radar in terms of that. As the numbers rise from the increased sales, which I have no doubt will happen, it will paint a wider target on it's head.
I personally don't want to see that day because all hell is going to break lose because most of the Apple users buying things because they work won't have the experience of dealing with the threats of viruses and how to get them safely off your system.
I haven't had a Mac in years, but I don't think that it had the best selection of anti virus software when I did.
Perhaps.
@ your comment about the Air and all that, I guess I should have said that I would have seriously looked at the Airbook if my next device was going to be a laptop. Since it isn't, the Airbook is cool, but a product not on my radar.
I haven't totally forgotten about the lack of anti-virus programs Apple has. It'll be interesting to see what happens in this arena later on.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 20, 2010, 08:06:49 PM
My mother still has troubles with her's due to a failed hard drive "backup" partition, which seems required on every Windows system, yet never, ever works when you need it.
This is actually a new manufacturer tact to save money and generate new sales. They have the partition instead of the discs because the discs cost more than a partition. I still hate that tactic. Which isn't to say that Apple doesn't have their own issues. The Airbook does have restore Cds, but no drive to restore them with. You have to buy a new drive to use the discs.
Thanks for keeping the support going here X. ;)
And I'll say again for the millionth time, this may be a fine machine for some people - just not for me. The "bang for your buck" is severely lacking. A Macbook Pro is a much smarter purchase if you want to stick to a Mac. For those of us that know computer hardware, this new Air is like driving an old Chevette. Sorry, but I prefer my machines to have a lot more guts and capabilities to them.
Quote from: Rico on October 21, 2010, 05:13:30 AM
Thanks for keeping the support going here X. ;)
And I'll say again for the millionth time, this may be a fine machine for some people - just not for me. The "bang for your buck" is severely lacking. A Macbook Pro is a much smarter purchase if you want to stick to a Mac. For those of us that know computer hardware, this new Air is like driving an old Chevette. Sorry, but I prefer my machines to have a lot more guts and capabilities to them.
I agree Rico. I have a Macbook Pro just because I wanted to see what the hype was. For $1800 it's really not worth it. It's a nice piece of hardware but my Linux and Windows 7 laptops run circles around it and will last just as long with far cheaper upgrades. There are lots of high quality Windows laptops out there but mostly Dell and HP imo.
Apple's model is moving away from desktops and laptops anyways. It's not that they won't make them but it will not be their main focus anymore within the next couple of years. I need to find that article I just read about that.
Different strokes for different fokes.....
Actually, yes and no. Apple does believe strongly that the mobile technology market is the growth sector and their porduct mix reflects that with iPod, iPhone, iPad, and Air (which is really NOT a laptop device but a portable media device). The PowerBook, iMac, and G series desktops still represent a major aspect of their business and revenue with very high margins. Mac PC sales have been growing very steadily as Apple's portable devices drive people into Apple stores where they are often converted over to the Mac computer platform. That aspect of their business will never go away as their machines on the very high end are in strong demand from a number of industries that are graphic intensive and their laptops and iMac's are very popular on the consumer side. Growing their overall PC market share is and will continue to be a key aspect of their corporate focus.
I'd say the worth of the Air (and netbooks in general) is extreme portability. If I was a consultant constantly travelling and needing a computer for little more then email, presentations and other Office type uses then I'd be hard pressed not to consider something like this. Personally I find my 15.4" Dell a bear to carry around. Fran's little 13" Toshiba netbook is great.
Maybe the Apple is more expensive but a precedent has beens et. People will pay the premium.
Oh, definitely Joe. It all depends on your needs and so forth. However, if you want a portable laptop that is still light and also kicks butt, get the Alienware Mx11 for only $799! Portable and still very powerful!
P.S. I still want one of these. Or the Mx15.
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-m11x/pd (http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-m11x/pd)
Yep, the Air, with instant on, flash memory only, the very clever track pad/touch interface is all geared towards the lighter side of computing in a very cool and ultra portable form factor. It's not meant to be a laptop in the traditional sense, they have the MacBook's for that. And the price for their products will ALWAYS be at a premium. That's their market. I find it amazing how they can sell so many of their products while demanding that premium to people who likely can't afford it. It's aspirational for some consumers, a status symbol and as such, watch how many of these things they sell. They also do deliver on the experience, so people don't feel disappointed.
Quote from: Bryancd on October 22, 2010, 07:58:22 AM
Yep, the Air, with instant on, flash memory only, the very clever track pad/touch interface is all geared towards the lighter side of computing in a very cool and ultra portable form factor. It's not meant to be a laptop in the traditional sense, they have the MacBook's for that. And the price for their products will ALWAYS be at a premium. That's their market. I find it amazing how they can sell so many of their products while demanding that premium to people who likely can't afford it. It's aspirational for some consumers, a status symbol and as such, watch how many of these things they sell. They also do deliver on the experience, so people don't feel disappointed.
In a way, they had to do this. The iPad was beginning to blur the lines of their old Air and Macs. This new Air distinguishes itself like you said.
Its an interesting product, but I'm heading for either the iPad or the Playbook, depending on which screen I think is better. Currently looking for an android 7" Pad in my town so I can test it out.
King
http://lifehacker.com/5670974/ (http://lifehacker.com/5670974/)
(tl;dr): Apple is no longer going to bundle flash into its Macs. This isn't a big deal really, you just go to the website and install it. Just get HTML5 out already so Apple quits having issues ;)
King
Seems the new Air has some display issues for some people. And Apple may have known about it.
The redesigned MacBook Air is only two weeks old, and reports of display issues have begun to crop up.
Cult of Mac reported earlier this week that it noticed flickering horizontal lines sometimes appearing on the display of its 13-inch model. A quick check of Apple support forums reveals a couple dozen reports of similar issues.
Though Apple has yet to publicly acknowledge the problem, a leaked internal memo shows that the company's support staff is indeed aware of it. Boy Genius Report received the memo from an unnamed source, and published it today.
source:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20021789-260.html (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20021789-260.html)
Rico, don't you know that you can't post the flaws that come up with Apple. Since some here are seen as biased against the company, other might see it as undermining the Apple Experience.
HEY! Quit being biased against those who think your being biased against the stuff we buy because it's "perfect" X. We don't tolerate that. Err, wait...
=P jk. Although I like how someone always leaks that the company in question knew about the flaw...
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on November 04, 2010, 03:29:13 PM
HEY! Quit being biased against those who think your being biased against the stuff we buy because it's "perfect" X. We don't tolerate that. Err, wait...
=P jk. Although I like how someone always leaks that the company in question knew about the flaw...
King
LOL! Yeah I like that the leaks are always after the fact.
LOL! You know, I wonder if it's building up static or a grounding issue? That entire metal case could be a problem actually.
Not bad for an overpriced, under powered device. :)
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/03/05/apple_ships_over_1_million_macbook_airs_in_new_notebooks_first_quarter.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/03/05/apple_ships_over_1_million_macbook_airs_in_new_notebooks_first_quarter.html)
Quote from: Bryancd on March 07, 2011, 05:51:27 AM
Not bad for an overpriced, under powered device. :)
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/03/05/apple_ships_over_1_million_macbook_airs_in_new_notebooks_first_quarter.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/03/05/apple_ships_over_1_million_macbook_airs_in_new_notebooks_first_quarter.html)
Remember what Apple said about Samsung. Ship thru does not equal sale thru. They might have shipped that many, but we don't have numbers on what they actually sold.
Edit: The did toss out a figure of 700k, so they sold a little more than half of what they shipped. Not bad.