This video is getting international media attention - I hope it continues to reach out and be seen by those who need the suppprt.
Joel Burns tells gay teens "it gets better" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax96cghOnY4#ws)
Bullying in general is a problem, but I do wish it had not taken kid's lives to make everyone wake up and smell the foul stench of it. Gays are not the only ones who have this problem, anyone who is not of the normal standard is bullyed and little to no support is there for them.
I'm pretty sure if I didn't have my tall and daunting stature, it would have been worse for me in school. But we have seemingly allowed it with no repercussions for those involved.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on October 15, 2010, 05:13:43 PM
Bullying in general is a problem, but I do wish it had not taken kid's lives to make everyone wake up and smell the foul stench of it. Gays are not the only ones who have this problem, anyone who is not of the normal standard is bullyed and little to no support is there for them.
I'm pretty sure if I didn't have my tall and daunting stature, it would have been worse for me in school. But we have seemingly allowed it with no repercussions for those involved.
King
Well said!
Where is the Like button?....
For sure, I was never bullied but I was picked on, especially being a sic-fi fan, which I wore loud and proud!
If I had the means to erraticate bullying, I don't think I would. I would rather see the bullied empowered to survive it and emerge a stronger individual.
Quote from: beer on October 15, 2010, 06:20:03 PM
If I had the means to erraticate bullying, I don't think I would. I would rather see the bullied empowered to survive it and emerge a stronger individual.
That is beyond backwards to me. Why encourage people to be mean? Just because people get through someone bullying them does not make them stronger......ever hear of Columbine? I think I spelled that right...
Quote from: beer on October 15, 2010, 06:20:03 PM
If I had the means to erraticate bullying, I don't think I would. I would rather see the bullied empowered to survive it and emerge a stronger individual.
There is a certain logical reasoning to this...but I dislike it either way.
King
I didn't mean to suggest encouraging bullying to strengthen children - I was looking at it, bullying, as spmething that exists in various forms throughout life and that learning to deal with such individuals and situations young would prove quite beneficial going forward. I do see the problems with such an arguement - it would be the same as suggesting a good round of physical and sexual abuse would be good for toughening up kids. That's an extreme and would be assinign <sp> to suggest; still I can't ignore the voice telling me it's more important for kids to learn how to deal with problematic peers then to remove the experience entirely.
I don't know how I feel about this whole bullying thing. The problem isn't bullying. The problem is people. It's not like the way people act changes when they become adults. They are still the same jerks they were when they were kids.
I personally think that the problem lies not in the bullying, but how we teach our children to cope with it. I don't think that there has been any generation that hasn't been picked on by their peers, but suddenly there is a huge problem. If the cause has always existed and the effect has changed, then it has to be something in how we're raising our kids.
Maybe it's just me, but I was told that words can't hurt me. It was drummed in my head and even the worst things that were said about me or the most difficult fights that I was in didn't break me. My parents made me feel empowered to fight my own battles. With wit, words, and sometimes it came to fists, but I didn't break.
I hate to admit this, but maybe our PC world is the cause. Everyone is more about avoiding the problems than confronting them. We are teaching generations of kids that it's okay to think things, but not say them out loud. We are teaching avoidance instead of acceptance.
When I was a kid, we dealt with bullies a different way and we took that power from them.
Humanity is a race of selfish jerks by nature. We strive to overcome this, but we should stop pretending that it's not true. We should stop pretending everyone is a good person inside and teach our kids to be stronger than we have been.
I remember how hazing was the big problem and now it's bullying. Maybe the problem is that people suck and we need to get back to the core of things and teach our kids to be comfortable in their own skin and to have the inner strength to where text on a screen doesn't drive them to kill themselves.
Quote from: X on October 15, 2010, 07:05:44 PM
I don't know how I feel about this whole bullying thing. The problem isn't bullying. The problem is people. It's not like the way people act changes when they become adults. They are still the same jerks they were when they were kids.
Amen.
As we grow older, I think we learn to grow a thicker skin and fight each battle as it comes.
Think about it - do you ever get through one week without some sort of confrontation? And then; do a slow burn, Take it in stride, or laugh it off?
It's terrible that any child should
feel so helpless and alone.
Wow.. how did I miss this thread...
14 suicides of young gay people because of bullying in the month of September alone.
I agree with King Bullying isn't effecting only gay youth but can you imagine being young and gay and knowing that if you accept who are truly are that half the world will HATE you, that you will never be able to marry, never be able to hold hands with the one you love in public without getting stares or called names. In some countries they would hang you for being gay and in many states you are not allowed to adopt a child. How would you feel having the religious right people constantly telling you that you're an abomination to this world and are going to hell.
It's one thing being bullied because your fat, or short, or a geek or nerd.. it's a totally different thing when you're gay. I know as I lived with it all my life. I wasn't out of the closet when I was in High School I couldn't imagine the bullying that would have taken place, I knew of kids who were gay in HS and I remember them being absent from classes for weeks at a time because of some stupid rumor that would go around school about them. I was so afraid of what society thought of gay people that I didn't accept who I truly was until my late 20's. I wasted so much of my young life being scare, lonely and confused.
I don't know who's to blame for this.. it might be like X said.. it's just part of human nature..but I do think some of the blame starts with the parents of the bullies. You are NOT born to HATE.. it's taught though intolerance, ignorance and racism. Parents pass on their beliefs to their kids (and I don't mean of offend any religious person) but most of the "HATE" towards gay people come from the religious institution. Will it ever stop and get to the ideal Star Trek future that we all love.. I doubt it.
I dont know where this idea that the most of the hate comes from religious institutions....Christians are supposed to love everyone and help them. Just because we think something is a sin has nothing to do with hate. Sin does not equate to hate, simple as that. It easy to to point the finger at religious institutions because there are always the small examples of some churchs doing something silly. Just because some churhes are doing something silly does not mean that its the entire institution.
If you let me know where the main line Christian or Jewish leaders preach hate to gays I would like to see it. You also have to be careful because just because someone goes to chruch, does NOT make them a Christian. Unless you practice what Jesus preached you are NOT a Christian. Yes wearing the Cross does NOT make you a Christian!
Let me point out that just because Kenny is gay and I am Christian does not mean we can not be friends or anything. I am supposed to love everyone and also try to communicate the Gospel and if possible make follower of Christ. I am not supposed to sit in the basement with fellow Christians and only communicate with them.
Quote from: Blackride on October 16, 2010, 10:09:57 AM
I dont know where this idea that the most of the hate comes from religious institutions....Christians are supposed to love everyone and help them. Just because we think something is a sin has nothing to do with hate. Sin does not equate to hate, simple as that. It easy to to point the finger at religious institutions because there are always the small examples of some churchs doing something silly. Just because some churhes are doing something silly does not mean that its the entire institution.
If you let me know where the main line Christian or Jewish leaders preach hate to gays I would like to see it. You also have to be careful because just because someone goes to chruch, does NOT make them a Christian. Unless you practice what Jesus preached you are NOT a Christian. Yes wearing the Cross does NOT make you a Christian!
Let me point out that just because Kenny is gay and I am Christian does not mean we can not be friends or anything. I am supposed to love everyone and also try to communicate the Gospel and if possible make follower of Christ. I am not supposed to sit in the basement with fellow Christians and only communicate with them.
I get where you're coming from, but I think that you're missing that it's more than small examples. There are a lot of people that call themselves Christian and go to Christian churches, but are well away from what those ideals might be.
My thought is that if being gay was such a big sin, Jesus would have mentioned it. He didn't. He did mention several times on how rich people were pretty screwed in their chances in going to heaven.
I think that there are a lot of assumption associated with Christianity, like Mary being a prostitute when that's not in the bible. It was corrected a long time ago, but people still have that impression. Because like to interpret the words in the bible instead of just reading them, there can be hundreds of interpretations and none of them are any less valid that the others. Allowing for interpretation is what allows for all the Christian sects and for people to be Christian without being the same type of Christian as the guy down the road.
It's also filled with assumptions. There is nothing at all in the bible that says what the sins of Sodam and Gammora were, but as most Christians and they are sure that they know.
I agree not all sects and all religions persecute gays, but when most of them says your immortal souls is damned for being born different ... it doesn't do well for helping to develop the self-esteem of a child growing up in that tradition.
As I've said before, I find it odd that Christians that speak out about being gay being so bad still violate some of the big ten commandments without realizing the irony. IF being gay was really that big of a sin, it should have been placed within the ten. Yet lying is there and it still happens daily. If all the sins are equal, every time you lie, it's a good as killing someone in God's eyes. Yet it still happens.
It seems to me that many faiths would rather point fingers at others than look to themselves and see their own sins.
This is why I don't teach my child a faith. I'm not going to indoctrinate into any traditions what so ever, but when she decides to explore her faith, I'll support that. She knows that Daddy has his own beliefs as does the rest of the family, but I'm not going to force her to follow my path. My path is right for me and that's as far as I go with it.
I think that's one of the core problems with organized religion. It started off as individuals on their paths then became one size fits all and splintered to many sizes fit most as the sects formed. I don't believe that my creator wasn't silly enough to create me without an instruction book on what he expects of me. That instruction book is the little voice in my head trying to teach me right from wrong. I'm not perfect and I stumble, but I've never needed an external source to tell me what God wanted me to do. I don't think anyone does. I think that organized religion becomes a case where too many cooks ruin the broth.
So, yeah I can see where Kenny is coming from. Sure they might not be your type of Christians, but they are still Christians because they play by the rules that allow for all these sects to exist.
Christ did speak on it. He said to follow God who said it. Christ and God are one not to be seperated either.
I still wish someone would point me to one of the mains stream religion's postion that they should hate gays.
Quote from: Blackride on October 16, 2010, 11:15:27 AM
Christ did speak on it. He said to follow God who said it. Christ and God are one not to be seperated either.
Can you tell me what he said exactly please??? I've always wanted to know what I'm supposedly sinning against. Thanks
There have been so many articles and books written about this from a Christian,Judea and Islamic stand point. Here is some of the big hitters:
Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)
http://thebible.net/modules.php?name=Read&itemid=81&cat=9 (http://thebible.net/modules.php?name=Read&itemid=81&cat=9)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Church DoctrineHere is a sampling of official church positions on homosexuality from the three largest denominations in the United States:
Roman Catholic:
Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
From Catechism of the Catholic Church, (c) 1994, United States Catholic Conference, Inc., http://www.nccbuscc.org/catechism/text/index.htm (http://www.nccbuscc.org/catechism/text/index.htm)
Southern Baptist:
We affirm God's plan for marriage and sexual intimacy - one man, and one woman, for life. Homosexuality is not a "valid alternative lifestyle." The Bible condemns it as sin. It is not, however, unforgivable sin. The same redemption available to all sinners is available to homosexuals. They, too, may become new creations in Christ.
From Position Statements, Copyright (c) 1999 - 2001, Executive Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, http://sbc.net/default.asp?url=position-statements.html (http://sbc.net/default.asp?url=position-statements.html)
United Methodist:
Homosexual persons no less than heterosexual persons are individuals of sacred worth. All persons need the ministry and guidance of the church in their struggles for human fulfillment, as well as the spiritual and emotional care of a fellowship that enables reconciling relationships with God, with others, and with self. Although we do not condone the practice of homosexuality and consider this practice incompatible with Christian teaching, we affirm that God's grace is available to all. We implore families and churches not to reject or condemn their lesbian and gay members and friends. We commit ourselves to be in ministry for and with all persons.
Certain basic human rights and civil liberties are due all persons. We are committed to supporting those rights and liberties for homosexual persons. We see a clear issue of simple justice in protecting their rightful claims where they have shared material resources, pensions, guardian relationships, mutual powers of attorney, and other such lawful claims typically attendant to contractual relationships that involve shared contributions, responsibilities, and liabilities, and equal protection before the law. Moreover, we support efforts to stop violence and other forms of coercion against gays and lesbians. We also commit ourselves to social witness against the coercion and marginalization of former homosexuals.
From The Book of Discipline of The United Methodist Church--2000, ΒΆ161G, 162H. Copyright 2000 by The United Methodist Publishing House, http://www.umc.org/abouttheumc/policy/ (http://www.umc.org/abouttheumc/policy/)
ahh, thank you Blackride, I recognize that verse. Just couldn't remember where it was.
And while that may be written in the Bible, that doesn't give us the right to hurt those who are Gay. We as Christians should welcome them with open arms into the Church. Regardless of what sin they have committed because we have committed sins and we still do. I do not like that many of the Churches have gotten uppity and will only accept those who claim to be pure, for they are lying as none of us are truly pure of sin. Yet we conveniently look over this fact and persecute others. The fact that the church punishes the younger generation for being different (geeks and such) truly pains me and it's why my generation isn't going to church.
King
King you are exactly right! We are not supposed to judge. That is for God to do. He warns us of that!
Quote from: Blackride on October 16, 2010, 11:19:23 AM
I still wish someone would point me to one of the mains stream religion's postion that they should hate gays.
It doesn't have to be a supported position to be followed by it's followers. I also don't know what you consider mainstream religion. Do you judge by members or what? Regardless, this isn't the place to debate that. Like it or not, there is a documented religious persecution of homosexuals and marginalizing of women by a wide variety of faiths. You can say that it's not your sect, but that doesn't mean that other sects are the same. Your views on Christ aside, others have other views of Christ. Hell, until recently, I didn't know that there were upwards of thirty different gods in some early sects of Christianity. In the end, people will pick and choose the parts they they want to follow and when they have enough people on their side, a new sect is formed.
There are religions to this day and in this country that places privilege on ethnicity. So, I'm not really surprised by some of the views on homosexuality.
The thing about most sects is that you're allowed to justify the actions with things like hate the sin not the sinner. Why hate at all? There is nothing preventing someone from going to heaven if they don't mess with other people's bedrooms. But they still do. If it's not out and out hate, it's bigotry disguised as law.
If someone is doing something not suported by their faith then you can't blame the religious orginization. That's my whole point. My Church is not responsible for me if I go out and decide to do the opposite of what I was taught. You can't blame the Church for that. That's like blamming all of Islam for 9/11.
Quote from: Blackride on October 16, 2010, 12:42:11 PM
If someone is doing something not suported by their faith then you can't blame the religious orginization. That's my whole point. My Church is not responsible for me if I go out and decide to do the opposite of what I was taught. You can't blame the Church for that. That's like blamming all of Islam for 9/11.
But there are churches that do go out and preach hate. Like burning other holy text or showing up at soldier's funerals to put up signs about god hating fags. Granted these are only a few sects, but they are there and nothing from the Christian community is being done to reign them in. It might be a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, but the other apples aren't doing anything to stop it. They are fine with it being others and not seeing how it taints the image of the whole.
In the end it comes to this ... do homosexuals feel persecuted by Christianity? Many of them do. Does the Christian community reach out to them? So do, but most don't. Many are so focused on their lifestyles being "wrong" that they don't have to look in the mirror. Revisionist history works wonders with that.
Another thing you have to consider is that there are few Christian sects that have no problem with homosexuality. Most of them are teaching their children that being gay is wrong and a sin. Even if they aren't preaching hate, they sure as hell aren't preaching acceptance.
Kids are being taught that how they feel is wrong and dirty. You don't have to preach hate to cause hurt and homosexuality being wrong is supported by a majority of the Christian churches. You can't tell me that this doesn't screw with a kid's mind.
We were taught that thinking of a sin is just as sinful as committing a sin. Add that to kids having these thoughts about their own sexuality and you have children thinking that they are damned just because they exist. It might not be hate, but there is nothing at all helpful about it.
Sin is not supposed to be easy. It's why Jesus lived a perfect life and died for our's. If we are going to tag a whole group because of a small minority of act taken by groups then there is nothing I can say. Like I said, it's why I don't blame Islam for 9/11 even though the CIA estimates that 200 million people live under extreme Islam doctrines. It down right wrong.
Clearly you have strong opinions on Christianity so no need for me to argue it any further.
Thank you X that was very well said.
Quote from: Blackride on October 16, 2010, 01:00:21 PM
Sin is not supposed to be easy. It's why Jesus lived a perfect life and died for our's. If we are going to tag a whole group because of a small minority of act taken by groups then there is nothing I can say. Like I said, it's why I don't blame Islam for 9/11 even though the CIA estimates that 200 million people live under extreme Islam doctrines. It down right wrong.
Clearly you have strong opinions on Christianity so no need for me to argue it any further.
And just for the record.. I never said all religious institutes/groups/ or people are like that..
Quote from: Geekyfanboy on October 16, 2010, 01:03:23 PM
Quote from: Blackride on October 16, 2010, 01:00:21 PM
Sin is not supposed to be easy. It's why Jesus lived a perfect life and died for our's. If we are going to tag a whole group because of a small minority of act taken by groups then there is nothing I can say. Like I said, it's why I don't blame Islam for 9/11 even though the CIA estimates that 200 million people live under extreme Islam doctrines. It down right wrong.
Clearly you have strong opinions on Christianity so no need for me to argue it any further.
And just for the record.. I never said all religious institutes/groups/ or people are like that..
I know you didn't man. It's just sad to me when people go around calling themselves Christian and not living by it. I think that's what you are seeing.
Quote from: Blackride on October 16, 2010, 01:00:21 PM
Sin is not supposed to be easy. It's why Jesus lived a perfect life and died for our's. If we are going to tag a whole group because of a small minority of act taken by groups then there is nothing I can say. Like I said, it's why I don't blame Islam for 9/11 even though the CIA estimates that 200 million people live under extreme Islam doctrines. It down right wrong.
Clearly you have strong opinions on Christianity so no need for me to argue it any further.
I have strong opinions on everything from religion to toothpaste. Christianity isn't the only religion I have issues with, but when many of them are attempting to make it the default religion of the country, one must be more vigilant in their dealings with them. I really wouldn't want one of the burn the gay sinner sects to become the official voice of the country. I wouldn't want ANY religion to become the voice of the country or have ANY say in how the government works, but that's a pipe dream. Too many politicians regardless of the supposed separation of Church and State use their very religion to get them elected into power. They do this on the promise that they will use that religion's teachings to shape the country. Something that slaps church and state in the face, but something we obviously allow and say little about ... especially when it's when someone's own faith is behind those pushes.
Wow. This thread's taken a turn. Not sure I can read any more of it though. It's so far off topic...
Quote from: Feathers on October 16, 2010, 01:24:24 PM
Wow. This thread's taken a turn. Not sure I can read any more of it though. It's so far off topic...
That's why I stopped.
Quote from: Feathers on October 16, 2010, 01:24:24 PM
Wow. This thread's taken a turn. Not sure I can read any more of it though. It's so far off topic...
How is it off topic when these are some of the core issues on why some of these kids are killing themselves? When we allow different to be thought of as wrong, that just gives the bullies far more ammo to use. I'm sorry that you can't ready any more of it, but think about the kids that have to live it.
What safe haven do they have when their faith is one of the very things that gives the bullies the power to hurt them? Do you think they find comfort in their faith when it's damning them to eternal suffering? It's really a lose/lose for them. Suffer in life or suffer in death, you are still going to suffer for who you are.
It's not a pretty thought, but it's true.
My last thoughts in this. While what this Councilman did is great, it really should be the norm in our society.
Quote from: X on October 16, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Christianity isn't the only religion I have issues with, but when many of them are attempting to make it the default religion of the country, one must be more vigilant in their dealings with them.
Well, the United States was founded on the concept of freedom of religion, however, the founding fathers were very much practicing Christians and that influence is still around today. "In God We Trust.." and so on. So I would say that ship has sailed.
Quote from: X on October 16, 2010, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: Feathers on October 16, 2010, 01:24:24 PM
Wow. This thread's taken a turn. Not sure I can read any more of it though. It's so far off topic...
How is it off topic when these are some of the core issues on why some of these kids are killing themselves? When we allow different to be thought of as wrong, that just gives the bullies far more ammo to use. I'm sorry that you can't ready any more of it, but think about the kids that have to live it.
What safe haven do they have when their faith is one of the very things that gives the bullies the power to hurt them? Do you think they find comfort in their faith when it's damning them to eternal suffering? It's really a lose/lose for them. Suffer in life or suffer in death, you are still going to suffer for who you are.
It's not a pretty thought, but it's true.
Ditto X.. I was going to apologize for taking it off topic but it really does go hand and hand with the topic.
Quote from: Bryancd on October 16, 2010, 02:25:38 PM
Quote from: X on October 16, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Christianity isn't the only religion I have issues with, but when many of them are attempting to make it the default religion of the country, one must be more vigilant in their dealings with them.
Well, the United States was founded on the concept of freedom of religion, however, the founding fathers were very much practicing Christians and that influence is still around today. "In God We Trust.." and so on. So I would say that ship has sailed.
Actually, quite a few of the founding fathers were Agnostic or had problems with Christianity. Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin are well known examples of that. Hell the Jefferson Bible was one of those things created because of those differences.
Edit: I did a quick check and Jefferson was a Unitarian, but has some cool quotes about his views on faith. He felt himself pretty much a sect of one.
Yeah, but still a very much Christian majority and it's prevalent in all aspects of the US government even to is day.
I have to question something and I hope this doesn't sound dumb or any any way disrespectful, but in all these cases did the bullies know the kid was actually gay?
Heterosexual male kids tease each other all the time about being gay (when they really aren't) in order to get a rise out of each other. When I was in high school they gave a kid a hard time about it, thinking he was straight because of his extremely conservative church he was devoted to. It sort of became a running gag at school because no one really thought he was. It wasn't until way after that he openly admitted he was gay (which we were surprised). Looking back the kids at the time wanted to get a rise out of him, thinking he was straight but a little on the effeminate side. I doubt he would have received some of the ribbing if they thought he was actually gay.
EDIT:
I mean, I don't believe the kids I went to school with were mean enough to pick on a kid for being gay knowing he really was. I could be wrong.
Quote from: AlanP on October 16, 2010, 11:02:08 PM
I have to question something and I hope this doesn't sound dumb or any any way disrespectful, but in all these cases did the bullies know the kid was actually gay?
Does it matter if they knew or not.. bottom line is these kids killed themselves because the bullies taunted them for being gay.
Quote from: AlanP on October 16, 2010, 11:02:08 PM
I have to question something and I hope this doesn't sound dumb or any any way disrespectful, but in all these cases did the bullies know the kid was actually gay?
Heterosexual male kids tease each other all the time about being gay (when they really aren't) in order to get a rise out of each other. When I was in high school they gave a kid a hard time about it, thinking he was straight because of his extremely conservative church he was devoted to. It sort of became a running gag at school because no one really thought he was. It wasn't until way after that he openly admitted he was gay (which we were surprised). Looking back the kids at the time wanted to get a rise out of him, thinking he was straight but a little on the effeminate side. I doubt he would have received some of the ribbing if they thought he was actually gay.
EDIT:
I mean, I don't believe the kids I went to school with were mean enough to pick on a kid for being gay knowing he really was. I could be wrong.
I think that you're giving kids a little too much credit. You've witnessed them trying to hurt someone by calling them gay like it's a crime. Why wouldn't they pick on an actual gay person? They are some how better than the jerks they are being in the first place?
If they are silly enough to think that gay is a way to hurt someone, imagine if they actually get to pick on a target that actually is?
Kenny, the bullies are absolutely 100% in the wrong for tormenting especially to that extent either way. I personally find it a lot worse if they knowingly pick on a kid for being gay, Jewish, black, handicapped, or what ever the element is they are being bullied over when the element really is something that exists in their life and the bully knows it and does it out of cruelty to hurt the person.
X, I wasn't trying to give them credit. I went to a really small school in rural Oklahoma, not to much trouble really happened. When I say small we had a graduating class of around 13. I was only speaking about the kids I went to school with. My school really wasn't mean. Kids being kids said and did things to get a laugh out of other kids and not to be viscous to the kid who was the butt of the joking. Heterosexual adolescent males call each other gay all the time to get a rise out of them because they are straight and don't want anyone to think they were gay. Even in college I left my cell phone laying around and one of my classmates as a practical joke sent everyone in my phone a text message to everyone saying, "What if I told you I was gay?" Just to embarrass me as I'm not gay. But had I been gay and the person knew it, and sent the text message to be cruel, that would be 100 times worse. But I haven't seen personally witnessed high school aged boys pick on each other out of cruelty and that's why I was wondering.
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm (http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm)
http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html (http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html)
http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm (http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm)
http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm (http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm)
Well over 93% of America also says that they are some sort of Christian and less than 2% believe in no God.
I would be curious if in general teenage suicide rates have changed over the past 30 years. I have a feeling that this has been going on for some time but the reporting of it has changed, become more specific as to the motivation behind the suicide thanks to people having more online exposure of themselves, their personalities, their lifestyles. The case in Rutgers recently would have not had been possible without the internet. Perhaps the excessive sharing of information had lead to an increase in attacks and deaths or maybe the number is static but we are hearing about it more.
I have often in my life been though of as being gay. As I got older and actually new gay people, I took it as a compliment, they were all very kind and sharp dressers! :)
Quote from: Blackride on October 17, 2010, 05:56:19 AM
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm (http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm)
http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html (http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html)
http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm (http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm)
http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm (http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm)
Well over 93% of America also says that they are some sort of Christian and less than 2% believe in no God.
I seriously doubt that well over 93% of Americas believe that they are some sort of Christian.. that number is way to high.
Quote from: Bryancd on October 17, 2010, 06:42:47 AM
I have often in my life been though of as being gay. As I got older and actually new gay people, I took it as a compliment, they were all very kind and sharp dressers! :)
Awww thanks Bryan.. that's why I love ya.. very few people would actually be complimented by being called gay :)
Most get upset and are offended by it.. leaving me to believe that they think it's a "bad" thing.
Quote from: Geekyfanboy on October 17, 2010, 08:37:48 AM
Quote from: Blackride on October 17, 2010, 05:56:19 AM
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm (http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm)
http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html (http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html)
http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm (http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm)
http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm (http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm)
Well over 93% of America also says that they are some sort of Christian and less than 2% believe in no God.
I seriously doubt that well over 93% of Americas believe that they are some sort of Christian.. that number is way to high.
mis-type. It's 73%.
Quote from: AlanP on October 16, 2010, 11:56:00 PM
X, I wasn't trying to give them credit. I went to a really small school in rural Oklahoma, not to much trouble really happened. When I say small we had a graduating class of around 13. I was only speaking about the kids I went to school with. My school really wasn't mean. Kids being kids said and did things to get a laugh out of other kids and not to be viscous to the kid who was the butt of the joking. Heterosexual adolescent males call each other gay all the time to get a rise out of them because they are straight and don't want anyone to think they were gay. Even in college I left my cell phone laying around and one of my classmates as a practical joke sent everyone in my phone a text message to everyone saying, "What if I told you I was gay?" Just to embarrass me as I'm not gay. But had I been gay and the person knew it, and sent the text message to be cruel, that would be 100 times worse. But I haven't seen personally witnessed high school aged boys pick on each other out of cruelty and that's why I was wondering.
Alan, I went to school in both Dell City and Edmond and had to deal with bullies trying to pick on me in Edmond because I was black. I've experienced that sort of cruelty right down the road from you. I was strong enough to fight my own battles and had friends to support me. Believe me that they pick on people to be cruel all over the country. Kids attack with that whole gay thing, not for fun, but because they think it will hurt their targets.
Attacking someone is wrong period.
The biggest club you can verbally hit someone with (gay or not) is a gay accusation. It's primal, you don't have to be smart to use it because it works every-time.
Believe me, this is not an attack solely on our gay population - I've been there myself. This hate knows no religious, economic or cultural bounds and can't be reasoned with.
Raising our community's awareness of this issue is the only solution because I doubt you can outlaw this dark-side of humanity.
Quote from: Blackride on October 17, 2010, 08:52:09 AM
Quote from: Geekyfanboy on October 17, 2010, 08:37:48 AM
Quote from: Blackride on October 17, 2010, 05:56:19 AM
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm (http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm)
http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html (http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html)
http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm (http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm)
http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm (http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm)
Well over 93% of America also says that they are some sort of Christian and less than 2% believe in no God.
I seriously doubt that well over 93% of Americas believe that they are some sort of Christian.. that number is way to high.
mis-type. It's 73%.
It could be 100%, but those very same founding fathers also wanted a separation between Church and State. If they wanted Christianity to run the country, they would have done so at the beginning.
Also, Unitarians are closer to Muslims than they are to Christians. They believe that Jesus existed, but wasn't any more special than any other prophet. They also believed in one god, not the trinity. TJ thought that it would be what most of the US became and his bible took out "the magic" worked by Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible)
Quote from: X on October 17, 2010, 09:36:20 AM
Alan, I went to school in both Dell City and Edmond and had to deal with bullies trying to pick on me in Edmond because I was black. I've experienced that sort of cruelty right down the road from you. I was strong enough to fight my own battles and had friends to support me. Believe me that they pick on people to be cruel all over the country. Kids attack with that whole gay thing, not for fun, but because they think it will hurt their targets.
[/quote]
I really hate to hear that.
Looking back the meanest thing I witnessed was a teacher, well a coach. It was American history class and they were goofing on this kid for having an ugly girlfriend, right in front of her. And the head basketball coach joined in on her, saying "There are advantages to having an ugly girlfriend. Maybe she can cook." A student in his class and the daughter of a board member.